Is the prophetic picture becoming clearer to you with the events that are transpiring in the middle east and or the whole world?

[The PuP]

I feel like things are on the fast track to the return of Jesus. After watching a recent episode of Watchman on the wall (I'm not a pre-tribber, but the guest interviewee (who is pre-trib) brought some things to light that I have not really seen the connection to current events like he made me to see). What Erick Stackelbeck and Amir Tsarfati brought out was this [it didn't change my view radically, but it opened my eyes]:
3 points:
1. Israel appears to be] in the immediate present,] on a crusade to subdue many of her nearby enemies...e.g Hamas, Hezbollah, Houthhis of Yemen, and Iran.
2. Anti-semitism continues to rise.
3. There is no mass incursion of Jews [aliyah] back to Israel from the nations of the world, namely from the US where nearly half of the world's Jews currently live.

Point #1 brings to mind two sets of scriptures.
A. The account of the Gog/ Magog war found in Eze 38-39
B.1 Thess 5 where it says "... peace and safety, then sudden destruction..."

Four times in Eze 38-39 it speaks of the children of Israel dwelling safely in the land... Eze 38:8,11 &14 and 39:26. I.e., they are dwelling there without fear of their enemies. What the IDF is currently doing is giving her great confidence (and others) that her enemies are no match for Israel's might/ power. They are not quite there yet, but they are moving in that direction.

At the same time national antisemitism is rising rapidly throughout the world. If Israel refuses to recognize the nations of the world (but not the USA) clamoring for a two state solution, national antisemitism will become intensely more manifest. As long as Hamas is not completely destroyed, Israel will not recognize a hamas-led Palestinian state. This will intensify the world's hatred of the Jews. But the non-israelite Jews of the world, currently do not feel compelled to aliyah. Nor has Israel accomplished [yet!] her goal to dwell peacefully in her land. But I believe it is coming. And when it does [come], this is when she will feel at ease to build her temple.
And, as antisemitism reaches a fever pitch, the compulsion to aliyah will grow stronger. And as work on the temple then proceeds, this will also enhance the compulsion for Jews to aliyah. And once the temple is completed, there will be a massive cry of peace and safety through out the land of Israel. This is when I believe the sudden destruction will come.

All three factors seem to be moving toward the ultimate end of peace and safety being proclaimed throughout the land of Israel, hastening the coming day of the Lord!

1Th 5:1-3 KJV 1 But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you. 2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. 3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

What do you think?

Be Blessed
The PuP

 

[Douggg]

Nor has Israel accomplished [yet!] her goal to dwell peacefully in her land. But I believe it is coming. And when it does [come], this is when she will feel at ease to build her temple.

I don't think that the Jews will rebuild the temple until after Gog/Magog takes place - which the Muslim presence on the temple mount will be eliminated.

And in their enthusiasm, the temple will be downsized initially to get the animal sacrifices going as quickly as possible. Perhaps that is the reason that John was told to measure the temple in Revelation 11:1.

The Jews (Judaism) believe that their messiah will take part in the rebuilding of the temple. Which that person would the Antichrist - the rider on the white horse figure in Revelation 6. That he has a bow seems to indicate military association, which the Jews (Judaism) also believe that the messiah will fight to defend Israel.

In Daniel 8:9, the little horn heads south and east towards Israel with a strong army. In Daniel 9:26, there is the Prince that shall come, who will confirm the covenant for 7 years. And also in Daniel 8:25, the little horn destroys many by peace.

Putting those things together, it appears that the little horn person, leader of a group of ten EU leaders, will
head into the middle east following Gog/Magog, with a EU army on the premise of being peace keeper for the region. He may put down any Muslim uprisings when the Jews begin to rebuild their temple.

The Jews will perceive him to be their long awaited King of Israel messiah. He will therefore be anointed the King of Israel, thought-to-be messiah (becoming the Antichrist). Acting in that capacity, he will make a big speech from the temple mount, confirming the Mt. Sinai covenant. And the 7 year 70th week begins.

 

[Jay Ross]

Hello

Sadly, many have a fixation upon the "land" which Israel will possess, but the reality is that God offered to Israel His fertile soil to live upon and to draw their nourishment from in an enduring relationship with Him, now and forever more.

The other sad problem in our understanding of the End Times is the fixation that the Beasts and the Little Horn are a "human entity", whereas the scriptures paint a very different understanding where Satan, the Beast(s) and the Little Horn/ the False Prophet are in fact wicked fallen rebelling Angels who can influence people to do their respective bidding.

Until both of the above problems are seen and our understanding corrected, the End Time Pictures will remain confusing and unclear.

Deuteronomy 31:9-13 is referenced above but the translations have missed the context of God's intent.

My understanding of this portion of scripture is: -

Deuteronomy 31:9-13: - The Law to Be Read Every Seven Years

9 So Moses wrote this law and delivered it to the priests, the sons of Levi, who bore the ark of the covenant of the Lord, and to all the elders of Israel. 10 And Moses commanded them, saying: "At the end of every seven years, at the appointed time in the year of release, at the Feast of Tabernacles, 11 when all Israel comes to appear before the Lord your God in the place which He chooses, you shall read this law before all Israel in their hearing. 12 Gather the people together, men and women and little ones, and the stranger who is within your gates, that they may hear and that they may learn to fear the Lord your God and carefully observe all the words of this law, 13 and that their children, who have not known it, may hear and learn to fear the Lord your God as long as you live in God’s fertile soil which you cross the {entity of the} Jordan to {then} possess."

Notice that what God wants the nation of Israel to possess is His fertile soil so that they can take their nourishment directly from Him.

Shalom

 

[Wish-it]

I don't think that the Jews will rebuild the temple until after Gog/Magog takes place - which the Muslim presence on the temple mount will be eliminated.

And in their enthusiasm, the temple will be downsized initially to get the animal sacrifices going as quickly as possible. Perhaps that is the reason that John was told to measure the temple in Revelation 11:1.

The Jews (Judaism) believe that their messiah will take part in the rebuilding of the temple. Which that person would the Antichrist - the rider on the white horse figure in Revelation 6. That he has a bow seems to indicate military association, which the Jews (Judaism) also believe that the messiah will fight to defend Israel.

In Daniel 8:9, the little horn heads south and east towards Israel with a strong army. In Daniel 9:26, there is the Prince that shall come, who will confirm the covenant for 7 years. And also in Daniel 8:25, the little horn destroys many by peace.

Putting those things together, it appears that the little horn person, leader of a group of ten EU leaders, will
head into the middle east following Gog/Magog, with a EU army on the premise of being peace keeper for the region. He may put down any Muslim uprisings when the Jews begin to rebuild their temple.

The Jews will perceive him to be their long awaited King of Israel messiah. He will therefore be anointed the King of Israel, thought-to-be messiah (becoming the Antichrist). Acting in that capacity, he will make a big speech from the temple mount, confirming the Mt. Sinai covenant. And the 7 year 70th week begins.



View attachment 70218

Interesting you consider the 10 toes to be a group of 10 EU leaders, I consider them to be the 10 nations of Psalm 83, especially the inclusion of Assyria, who will arise, in my mind, to be the AC. The gap i see in the EU theory is the scripture from Rev 17.12 ' are ten kings who have not yet received a kingdom, but for one they will. The psalm 83 nations dont appear to have kingdom at this stage apart from Assyria. Your thoughts?

 

[Jay Ross]

Interesting you consider the 10 toes to be a group of 10 EU leaders, I consider them to be the 10 nations of Psalm 83, especially the inclusion of Assyria, who will arise, in my mind, to be the AC. The gap i see in the EU theory is the scripture from Rev 17.12 ' are ten kings who have not yet received a kingdom, but for one they will. The psalm 83 nations dont appear to have kingdom at this stage apart from Assyria. Your thoughts?

Perhaps it would be better to consider Jeremiah 50 and the king from the north, i.e. the USA President, and the kings who joined him to invade Iran/the Land of Babylon to heal the land rather than to destroy the land of Babylon. These kings presided over the twenty nations that were the ten toes of the Daniel 2 prophecy.

 

[Douggg]

Hello

Sadly, many have a fixation upon the "land" which Israel will possess, but the reality is that God offered to Israel His fertile soil to live upon and to draw their nourishment from in an enduring relationship with Him, now and forever more.

The other sad problem in our understanding of the End Times is the fixation that the Beasts and the Little Horn are a "human entity", whereas the scriptures paint a very different understanding where Satan, the Beast(s) and the Little Horn/ the False Prophet are in fact wicked fallen rebelling Angels who can influence people to do their respective bidding.

Until both of the above problems are seen and our understanding corrected, the End Time Pictures will remain confusing and unclear.

Deuteronomy 31:9-13 is referenced above but the translations have missed the context of God's intent.

My understanding of this portion of scripture is: -

Deuteronomy 31:9-13: - The Law to Be Read Every Seven Years

9 So Moses wrote this law and delivered it to the priests, the sons of Levi, who bore the ark of the covenant of the Lord, and to all the elders of Israel. 10 And Moses commanded them, saying: "At the end of every seven years, at the appointed time in the year of release, at the Feast of Tabernacles, 11 when all Israel comes to appear before the Lord your God in the place which He chooses, you shall read this law before all Israel in their hearing. 12 Gather the people together, men and women and little ones, and the stranger who is within your gates, that they may hear and that they may learn to fear the Lord your God and carefully observe all the words of this law, 13 and that their children, who have not known it, may hear and learn to fear the Lord your God as long as you live in God’s fertile soil which you cross the {entity of the} Jordan to {then} possess."

Notice that what God wants the nation of Israel to possess is His fertile soil so that they can take their nourishment directly from Him.

Shalom

Jay, what translation did you copy and paste from ?

 

[The PuP]

Hello

Sadly, many have a fixation upon the "land" which Israel will possess, but the reality is that God offered to Israel His fertile soil to live upon and to draw their nourishment from in an enduring relationship with Him, now and forever more.

The other sad problem in our understanding of the End Times is the fixation that the Beasts and the Little Horn are a "human entity", whereas the scriptures paint a very different understanding where Satan, the Beast(s) and the Little Horn/ the False Prophet are in fact wicked fallen rebelling Angels who can influence people to do their respective bidding.

Until both of the above problems are seen and our understanding corrected, the End Time Pictures will remain confusing and unclear.

Deuteronomy 31:9-13 is referenced above but the translations have missed the context of God's intent.

My understanding of this portion of scripture is: -

Deuteronomy 31:9-13: - The Law to Be Read Every Seven Years

9 So Moses wrote this law and delivered it to the priests, the sons of Levi, who bore the ark of the covenant of the Lord, and to all the elders of Israel. 10 And Moses commanded them, saying: "At the end of every seven years, at the appointed time in the year of release, at the Feast of Tabernacles, 11 when all Israel comes to appear before the Lord your God in the place which He chooses, you shall read this law before all Israel in their hearing. 12 Gather the people together, men and women and little ones, and the stranger who is within your gates, that they may hear and that they may learn to fear the Lord your God and carefully observe all the words of this law, 13 and that their children, who have not known it, may hear and learn to fear the Lord your God as long as you live in God’s fertile soil which you cross the {entity of the} Jordan to {then} possess."

Notice that what God wants the nation of Israel to possess is His fertile soil so that they can take their nourishment directly from Him.

Shalom

Possession of the land of Israel, that which he promised to Abraham Isaac and Jacob, is based upon keeping the commandments of God. It was the basis on the covenant that God gave to Moses on Mt. Sinai, and it is the basis of the new covenant that Jesus made.

Deu 11:8-32 KJV 8 Therefore shall ye keep all the commandments which I command you this day, that ye may be strong, and go in and possess the land, whither ye go to possess it; 9 And that ye may prolong your days in the land, which the LORD sware unto your fathers to give unto them and to their seed, a land that floweth with milk and honey. 10 For the land, whither thou goest in to possess it, is not as the land of Egypt, from whence ye came out, where thou sowedst thy seed, and wateredst it with thy foot, as a garden of herbs: 11 But the land, whither ye go to possess it, is a land of hills and valleys, and drinketh water of the rain of heaven: 12 A land which the LORD thy God careth for: the eyes of the LORD thy God are always upon it, from the beginning of the year even unto the end of the year. 13 And it shall come to pass, if ye shall hearken diligently unto my commandments which I command you this day, to love the LORD your God, and to serve him with all your heart and with all your soul, 14 That I will give you the rain of your land in his due season, the first rain and the latter rain, that thou mayest gather in thy corn, and thy wine, and thine oil. 15 And I will send grass in thy fields for thy cattle, that thou mayest eat and be full. 16 Take heed to yourselves, that your heart be not deceived, and ye turn aside, and serve other gods, and worship them; 17 And then the LORD'S wrath be kindled against you, and he shut up the heaven, that there be no rain, and that the land yield not her fruit; and lest ye perish quickly from off the good land which the LORD giveth you. 18 Therefore shall ye lay up these my words in your heart and in your soul, and bind them for a sign upon your hand, that they may be as frontlets between your eyes. 19 And ye shall teach them your children, speaking of them when thou sittest in thine house, and when thou walkest by the way, when thou liest down, and when thou risest up. 20 And thou shalt write them upon the door posts of thine house, and upon thy gates: 21 That your days may be multiplied, and the days of your children, in the land which the LORD sware unto your fathers to give them, as the days of heaven upon the earth. 22 For if ye shall diligently keep all these commandments which I command you, to do them, to love the LORD your God, to walk in all his ways, and to cleave unto him; 23 Then will the LORD drive out all these nations from before you, and ye shall possess greater nations and mightier than yourselves. 24 Every place whereon the soles of your feet shall tread shall be yours: from the wilderness and Lebanon, from the river, the river Euphrates, even unto the uttermost sea shall your coast be. 25 There shall no man be able to stand before you: for the LORD your God shall lay the fear of you and the dread of you upon all the land that ye shall tread upon, as he hath said unto you. 26 Behold, I set before you this day a blessing and a curse; 27 A blessing, if ye obey the commandments of the LORD your God, which I command you this day: 28 And a curse, if ye will not obey the commandments of the LORD your God, but turn aside out of the way which I command you this day, to go after other gods, which ye have not known. 29 And it shall come to pass, when the LORD thy God hath brought thee in unto the land whither thou goest to possess it, that thou shalt put the blessing upon mount Gerizim, and the curse upon mount Ebal. 30 Are they not on the other side Jordan, by the way where the sun goeth down, in the land of the Canaanites, which dwell in the champaign over against Gilgal, beside the plains of Moreh? 31 For ye shall pass over Jordan to go in to possess the land which the LORD your God giveth you, and ye shall possess it, and dwell therein. 32 And ye shall observe to do all the statutes and judgments which I set before you this day.

Be Blessed
The PuP

 

[ScottA]

I feel like things are on the fast track to the return of Jesus. After watching a recent episode of Watchman on the wall (I'm not a pre-tribber, but the guest interviewee (who is pre-trib) brought some things to light that I have not really seen the connection to current events like he made me to see). What Erick Stackelbeck and Amir Tsarfati brought out was this [it didn't change my view radically, but it opened my eyes]:
3 points:
1. Israel appears to be] in the immediate present,] on a crusade to subdue many of her nearby enemies...e.g Hamas, Hezbollah, Houthhis of Yemen, and Iran.
2. Anti-semitism continues to rise.
3. There is no mass incursion of Jews [aliyah] back to Israel from the nations of the world, namely from the US where nearly half of the world's Jews currently live.

Point #1 brings to mind two sets of scriptures.
A. The account of the Gog/ Magog war found in Eze 38-39
B.1 Thess 5 where it says "... peace and safety, then sudden destruction..."

Four times in Eze 38-39 it speaks of the children of Israel dwelling safely in the land... Eze 38:8,11 &14 and 39:26. I.e., they are dwelling there without fear of their enemies. What the IDF is currently doing is giving her great confidence (and others) that her enemies are no match for Israel's might/ power. They are not quite there yet, but they are moving in that direction.

At the same time national antisemitism is rising rapidly throughout the world. If Israel refuses to recognize the nations of the world (but not the USA) clamoring for a two state solution, national antisemitism will become intensely more manifest. As long as Hamas is not completely destroyed, Israel will not recognize a hamas-led Palestinian state. This will intensify the world's hatred of the Jews. But the non-israelite Jews of the world, currently do not feel compelled to aliyah. Nor has Israel accomplished [yet!] her goal to dwell peacefully in her land. But I believe it is coming. And when it does [come], this is when she will feel at ease to build her temple.
And, as antisemitism reaches a fever pitch, the compulsion to aliyah will grow stronger. And as work on the temple then proceeds, this will also enhance the compulsion for Jews to aliyah. And once the temple is completed, there will be a massive cry of peace and safety through out the land of Israel. This is when I believe the sudden destruction will come.

All three factors seem to be moving toward the ultimate end of peace and safety being proclaimed throughout the land of Israel, hastening the coming day of the Lord!

1Th 5:1-3 KJV 1 But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you. 2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. 3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

What do you think?

Be Blessed
The PuP

Unfortunately, sadly, the doctrine of a distant "future" return of Christ--all such doctrines, are the result of the "false teachers" warned of by Peter not seeing in the flesh and in the world what Jesus said would not come by "observation", but as "the wind blows" (John 3:8).

 

[The PuP]

Unfortunately, sadly, the doctrine of a distant "future" return of Christ--all such doctrines, are the result of the "false teachers" warned of by Peter not seeing in the flesh and in the world what Jesus said would not come by "observation", but as "the wind blows" (John 3:8).

Jesus said "that all power is given unto me", AFTER his resurrection. He also said that "all judgment is given me", the resurrections of life and eternal damnation, because [he is also] the Son of man. But Jesus will not reign over all things until God puts all things under his feet.

That is manifestly clear from Hebrews 1 and 2.

Heb 1:2 KJV Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

He is the appointed heir of all things. That means it is for the appointed time when God sends his son to rule IN THE MIDST OF his enemies. [Cf Psalm 110] Hebrews 1 goes on to say;

Heb 1:13 KJV But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool?

It is not the angels, but it is the Son who sits at God's right hand, expecting till his enemies be made his footstool. Further it says,

Heb 2:5 KJV For unto the angels hath he not put in subjection the world to come, whereof we speak.

... the world to come... not this present world! Reiteratimg what Paul said in 1COR15 It says this:

Heb 2:8 KJV Thou hast put all things in subjection under his feet. For in that he put all in subjection under him, he left nothing that is not put under him. But now we see not yet all things put under him.

The exercising of all things having been put under him, is reserved for the world to come. Christ will rule on this earth-in the midst of his enemies.

1Co 15:25 KJV For he. [GOD] must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.

The "HE", who must reign, is the same "HE" that puts all enemies under Christ's feet. That is undeniably clear from Psalm 110 where God the Father is speaking to his Son... Sit at "MY" right hand until "I" make thine enemies thy [YOUR] footstool.

 

[Jay Ross]

Jay, what translation did you copy and paste from?

Basically, the NKJV with adjustments to the last verse because of omissions of Hebrew words that had not been translated and contextual errors in the translations.

The Hebrew word, "הָ֣אֲדָמָ֔ה" which has the Hebrew Root word H:0127, "אֲדָמָה" embedded within it where the meaning of H:0127 is "soil" and not "land".

God want us all to inhabit/live in His fertile soil and to send our roots down into His wisdom and to receive our nourishment directly from Him.

When we fixate upon the land that God gave as a possession to the Descendants of Abraham, like the Jews did and are still doing, we will miss God's purposes for our relationship with Him.

Where we rely wholly upon the various translations for the Hebrew and Greek text which reflect the bias of the translators, we will miss the heart of God for our well being.

 

[Douggg]

Basically, the NKJV with adjustments to the last verse because of omissions of Hebrew words that had not been translated and contextual errors in the translations.

The Hebrew word, "הָ֣אֲדָמָ֔ה" which has the Hebrew Root word H:0127, "אֲדָמָה" embedded within it where the meaning of H:0127 is "soil" and not "land".

God want us all to inhabit/live in His fertile soil and to send our roots down into His wisdom and to receive our nourishment directly from Him.

Jay, don't alter the text of the NKJ version and claim it is the Word of God. Also "fertile" is something that you are adding "soil".

From a Jewish site, Chabad.org is an online translation of the Tanach to English. For Deuteronomy 31:13...

13And their children, who did not know, will hear and learn to fear the Lord, your God, all the days that you live on the land, to which you are crossing the Jordan, to possess.

God want us all to inhabit/live in His fertile soil and to send our roots down into His wisdom and to receive our nourishment directly from Him.

When we fixate upon the land that God gave as a possession to the Descendants of Abraham, like the Jews did and are still doing, we will miss God's purposes for our relationship with Him.

Where we rely wholly upon the various translations for the Hebrew and Greek text which reflect the bias of the translators, we will miss the heart of God for our well being.

Jay, you are making stuff up. The text of Deuteronomy 31:13, NKJ version, does not say "fertile soil". Deuteronomy 31:13 is specifically referring to Israel, the promised land.

13and that their children, who have not known it, may hear and learn to fear the Lord your God as long as you live in the land which you cross the Jordan to possess.” NKJ

 

[Jay Ross]

Possession of the land of Israel, that which he promised to Abraham Isaac and Jacob, is based upon keeping the commandments of God. It was the basis on the covenant that God gave to Moses on Mt. Sinai, and it is the basis of the new covenant that Jesus made.

Deu 11:8-32 KJV 8 Therefore shall ye keep all the commandments which I command you this day, that ye may be strong, and go in and possess the land, whither ye go to possess it; 9 And that ye may prolong your days in the land, which the LORD sware unto your fathers to give unto them and to their seed, a land that floweth with milk and honey. 10 For the land, whither thou goest in to possess it, is not as the land of Egypt, from whence ye came out, where thou sowedst thy seed, and wateredst it with thy foot, as a garden of herbs: 11 But the land, whither ye go to possess it, is a land of hills and valleys, and drinketh water of the rain of heaven: 12 A land which the LORD thy God careth for: the eyes of the LORD thy God are always upon it, from the beginning of the year even unto the end of the year. 13 And it shall come to pass, if ye shall hearken diligently unto my commandments which I command you this day, to love the LORD your God, and to serve him with all your heart and with all your soul, 14 That I will give you the rain of your land in his due season, the first rain and the latter rain, that thou mayest gather in thy corn, and thy wine, and thine oil. 15 And I will send grass in thy fields for thy cattle, that thou mayest eat and be full. 16 Take heed to yourselves, that your heart be not deceived, and ye turn aside, and serve other gods, and worship them; 17 And then the LORD'S wrath be kindled against you, and he shut up the heaven, that there be no rain, and that the land yield not her fruit; and lest ye perish quickly from off the good land which the LORD giveth you. 18 Therefore shall ye lay up these my words in your heart and in your soul, and bind them for a sign upon your hand, that they may be as frontlets between your eyes. 19 And ye shall teach them your children, speaking of them when thou sittest in thine house, and when thou walkest by the way, when thou liest down, and when thou risest up. 20 And thou shalt write them upon the door posts of thine house, and upon thy gates: 21 That your days may be multiplied, and the days of your children, in the land which the LORD sware unto your fathers to give them, as the days of heaven upon the earth. 22 For if ye shall diligently keep all these commandments which I command you, to do them, to love the LORD your God, to walk in all his ways, and to cleave unto him; 23 Then will the LORD drive out all these nations from before you, and ye shall possess greater nations and mightier than yourselves. 24 Every place whereon the soles of your feet shall tread shall be yours: from the wilderness and Lebanon, from the river, the river Euphrates, even unto the uttermost sea shall your coast be. 25 There shall no man be able to stand before you: for the LORD your God shall lay the fear of you and the dread of you upon all the land that ye shall tread upon, as he hath said unto you. 26 Behold, I set before you this day a blessing and a curse; 27 A blessing, if ye obey the commandments of the LORD your God, which I command you this day: 28 And a curse, if ye will not obey the commandments of the LORD your God, but turn aside out of the way which I command you this day, to go after other gods, which ye have not known. 29 And it shall come to pass, when the LORD thy God hath brought thee in unto the land whither thou goest to possess it, that thou shalt put the blessing upon mount Gerizim, and the curse upon mount Ebal. 30 Are they not on the other side Jordan, by the way where the sun goeth down, in the land of the Canaanites, which dwell in the champaign over against Gilgal, beside the plains of Moreh? 31 For ye shall pass over Jordan to go in to possess the land which the LORD your God giveth you, and ye shall possess it, and dwell therein. 32 And ye shall observe to do all the statutes and judgments which I set before you this day.

Be Blessed
The PuP

This is how I understand Deuteronomy 11:8-32 should be paraphrased which is based upon the NKJV where a number of key Hebrew words have been translated to reflect God's context of this passage

Deuteronomy 11:8-32: - 8 "Therefore you shall keep every commandment which I command you today, that you may be strong, and go in and possess {the entity portion of} the earth which you cross over to possess, 9 and that you may prolong your days in the fertile soil which the Lord swore to give your fathers, to them and their descendants, 'a land/country flowing with milk and honey.' 10 For the earth which you go to possess is not like the countryside of Egypt from which you have come, where you sowed your seed and watered it by foot, as a vegetable garden; 11 but the earth which you cross over to possess is a countryside of hills and valleys, which drinks water from the rain of heaven, 12 a land for which the Lord your God cares; the eyes of the Lord your God are always on it, from the beginning of the year to the very end of the year.​

​

13 'And it shall be that if you earnestly obey My commandments which I command you today, to love the Lord your God and serve Him with all your heart and with all your soul, 14 then I will give you the rain for your land in its season, the early rain and the latter rain, that you may gather in your grain, your new wine, and your oil. 15 And I will send grass in your fields for your livestock, that you may eat and be filled.' 16 Take heed to yourselves, lest your heart be deceived, and you turn aside and serve other gods and worship them, 17 lest the Lord's anger be aroused against you, and He shut up the heavens so that there be no rain, and the fertile fields yield no produce, and you perish quickly from the good earth which the Lord is giving you.​

​

18 "Therefore you shall lay up these words of mine in your heart and in your soul, and bind them as a sign on your hand, and they shall be as frontlets between your eyes. 19 You shall teach them to your children, speaking of them when you sit in your house, when you walk by the way, when you lie down, and when you rise up. 20 And you shall write them on the doorposts of your house and on your gates, 21 that your days and the days of your children may be multiplied in the fertile fields of which the Lord swore to your fathers to give them, like the days of the heavens above the earth.​

​

22 "For if you carefully keep all these commandments which I command you to do — to love the Lord your God, to walk in all His ways, and to hold fast to Him — 23 then the Lord will drive out all these nations from before you, and you will dispossess greater and mightier nations than yourselves. 24 Every place on which the sole of your foot treads shall be yours: from the wilderness and Lebanon, from the river, the River Euphrates, even to the Western Sea, shall be your territory. 25 No man shall be able to stand against you; the Lord your God will put the dread of you and the fear of you upon all the earth where you tread, just as He has said to you.​

​

26 "Behold, I set before you today a blessing and a curse: 27 the blessing, if you obey the commandments of the Lord your God which I command you today; 28 and the curse, if you do not obey the commandments of the Lord your God, but turn aside from the way which I command you today, to go after other gods which you have not known. 29 Now it shall be, when the Lord your God has brought you into the earth which you go to possess, that you shall put the blessing on Mount Gerizim and the curse on Mount Ebal. 30 Are they not on the other side of the Jordan, toward the setting sun, in the land of the Canaanites who dwell in the plain opposite Gilgal, beside the terebinth trees of Moreh? 31 For you will cross over the Jordan and go in to possess the land which the Lord your God is giving you, and you will possess it and dwell in it. 32 And you shall be careful to observe all the statutes and judgments which I set before you today.​

The NKJV with my paraphrasing modifications for clarity.​

My modified translation of the same Deuteronomy 11:8-32 that you quoted from the KJV, I believe provides the context that God wanted the Israelites to understand.

Shalom

 

[Jay Ross]

Jay, don't alter the text of the NKJ version and claim it is the Word of God. Also "fertile" is something that you are adding "soil".

From a Jewish site, Chabad.org is an online translation of the Tanach to English. For Deuteronomy 31:13...

13And their children, who did not know, will hear and learn to fear the Lord, your God, all the days that you live on the land, to which you are crossing the Jordan, to possess.


Jay, you are making stuff up. The text of Deuteronomy 31:13, NKJ version, does not say "fertile soil". Deuteronomy 31:13 is specifically referring to Israel, the promised land.

13and that their children, who have not known it, may hear and learn to fear the Lord your God as long as you live in the land which you cross the Jordan to possess.” NKJ

Dougggg, you are so funny with your above claim which is a reflection of what you have been continually doing on this site with your made-up diagrams and claims.

All of the available translations today do not necessarily convey the same context that Moses presented to the nation of Israel.

Moses' warning to the nation of Israel was that if Israel turned away from their relationship with God to worship other Gods, than they would lose their possession of the earth and the promised entity portions of this earth that God had given to them to possess.

Oh well, so be it.

 

[Zao is life]

I feel like things are on the fast track to the return of Jesus. After watching a recent episode of Watchman on the wall (I'm not a pre-tribber, but the guest interviewee (who is pre-trib) brought some things to light that I have not really seen the connection to current events like he made me to see). What Erick Stackelbeck and Amir Tsarfati brought out was this [it didn't change my view radically, but it opened my eyes]:
3 points:
1. Israel appears to be] in the immediate present,] on a crusade to subdue many of her nearby enemies...e.g Hamas, Hezbollah, Houthhis of Yemen, and Iran.
What do you think?

Be Blessed
The PuP

I think that Jesus gave us only one main sign to watch for by which we can know that He is near, even at the doors.

I think that that day will not arrive until the apostasy comes and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction - the one who will oppose and exalt himself above every so-called god or object of worship, and as a result will take his seat in God's sanctuary [G3588, G3485, o naos - the sanctuary (of God), displaying himself as God. (2 Thessalonians 2:1-4).

I know that the word [G2411 hieron], which always refers to the temple complex in Jerusalem (which housed the G3485 naos, the actual sanctuary of God], is used throughout the gospel, Acts and epistles in reference to the temple in Jerusalem - but the same cannot be said for the actual sanctuary [G3485 naos].

I know that following the verses talking about the tearing of the veil in the Jerusalem sanctuary, that word [G3485 naos, sanctuary] (of God) is not used in reference to the temple in Jerusalem again in the gospels, Acts and epistles, but only in reference to the bodies of individual believers and the church as the temple of God.
​

I know that the first time the word [G3485 naos, sanctuary] (of God) is used following the verses talking about the tearing of the veil in the Jerusalem temple, is in the following verse:

"Howbeit the most High dwelleth not in temples [G3485 naos, sanctuary] (of God) made with hands" (Acts 7:48) (a statement which is repeated in Acts 17:24).

I also know that Jesus said,

"Destroy this temple [G3485 naos, sanctuary] (of God) that is made with hands, and within three days I will build another made without hands. (Mark 14:58).

I know that in the verse where Paul spoke about the temple in Jerusalem, the word [G2411, hieron] is used, but whenever he spoke of the bodies of believers and the church as the temple of God, the word [G3485 naos, sanctuary of God] is used.
​

I know that since the above is the case, then IF Paul was referring to a temple made with hands in 2 Thessalonians 2:4, the word [G2411, hieron] would be used - but instead, the word [G3485 naos, sanctuary of God] is used.

​

I also know that Jesus said that the end will come when the gospel of the Kingdom has been preached to all nations (Matthew 24:14), and that at that time [G5119 tote] His disciples will have become hated of all nations for His name's sake, and will be handed over to tribulation [G2347, thlipsis] and killed (Matthew 24;9), and many will be offended, will stumble, and fall away [G4624 skandalisthēsontai] (Matthew 24:10).

I also know that the same word [G4624 skandalisthēsontai] is used in Matthew 26:33, when Peter said, "If they all fall away because of you, I will never fall away!"

- and I also know that immediately after telling his disciples about this tribulation they would face at the end of the age. Jesus said,

"When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:) Then let them which be in Judea flee into the mountains .." etc (Matthew 24:15-16 and following).

I also know that In Matthew 24:15 Jesus was talking to His JEWISH disciples about "the abomination of desolation in the holy place spoken of by Daniel the prophet", which His JEWISH audience would have associated with Antiochus IV, Epiphanes, and therefore would not have associated with the DESTRUCTION of the temple in Jerusalem - because I also know that any reputable encyclopedia will tell you that the phrase "The Abomination of Desolation' is a phrase from the Book of Daniel describing the pagan sacrifices with which the 2nd century BC Greek king Antiochus IV Epiphanes replaced the twice-daily offering in the Jewish temple, or on the altar on which such offerings were made."

Not destroyed: the abomination of desolation set up in the holy place of the 2nd temple by Antiochus IV, "Epiphanes" in 167 BC (Daniel 8:11; Daniel 11:31; and Daniel 12:11-12), is not associated with the destruction of either the city of Jerusalem, or of the temple in it, but:

Destroyed: The text of Daniel 9:26-27 associates the destruction of the city (Jerusalem) and the sanctuary (the temple) with abominations.

So that means that the abomination of desolation in the holy place is the man of sin of 2 Thessalonians 2:4 - an idol in the holy place which is not an object, but a human being, whose type is the abomination of desolation (the idol) placed in the temple by Antiochus IV Epiphanes

- and THAT (coming) abomination of desolation in the holy place is THE sign Jesus gave us to watch for.

So IMO any building made with hands in Jerusalem would need to be considered by the masses of saints as "the headquarters of the church/es" and be a place of CHRISTIAN worship in order for it to qualify as the [G3485 naos, sanctuary] (of God) or "the holy place".

Would the Jews build such a place and identify it as a place of CHRISTIAN worship?

I don't know. Nor do I know why those in Judea are told to flee when the see the abomination of desolation in the holy place.

What I do know is that the evil of the world is being exposed by what "they" (all of those nations and individuals who are doing it) are doing - not only to the Jews and to the state of Israel - but also to Christians and conservative and good people (Charlie Kirk), and God warns His people - through the Jews who He was talking to in Isaiah 5:20 - that we had better not put evil for good, and good for evil, darkness for light and light for darkness, bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter.

I also know that Paul rightly says of those who do the above that:​

"Their throat is an open sepulchre;
with their tongues they have used deceit;
the poison of asps is under their lips.
Their mouths are full of cursing and bitterness.
Their feet are swift to shed blood.
Destruction and misery are in their ways,
and the way of peace have they not known."​

(They prove that) "There is no (real and true) fear of God before their eyes." (Romans 3:13-18).

We see a lot of it today. But the abomination of desolation (the man of sin of 2 Thessalonians 2) has not appeared in the holy place yet, and we have not yet been given over to tribulation and killed for His name's sake, and there has not been a mass falling away from the faith yet.

 

[Davy]

3 points:
1. Israel appears to be] in the immediate present,] on a crusade to subdue many of her nearby enemies...e.g Hamas, Hezbollah, Houthhis of Yemen, and Iran.
2. Anti-semitism continues to rise.
3. There is no mass incursion of Jews [aliyah] back to Israel from the nations of the world, namely from the US where nearly half of the world's Jews currently live.

Firstly, the Pre-trib Rapture school relies on sensationalism about the events for the end of this world. When Lord Jesus said that as long as we hear of wars and rumors of wars, don't be worried, that the END is not yet, He was pointing out that the very END will be a time of world peace, not all-out war and chaos. Pre-trib instead pushes the idea of all-out war and chaos for the very END. Apostle Paul's "Peace and safety" idea is about the DECEIVED who will be saying that during the "great tribulation". Chicken in every pot that bows in worship to the coming supernatural false-Messiah in place of Christ.

Point #1 brings to mind two sets of scriptures.
A. The account of the Gog/ Magog war found in Eze 38-39

That Gog/Magog event is set for the very LAST DAY of this world when Jesus comes, NOT during the "great tribulation", nor prior to the trib. either.

B.1 Thess 5 where it says "... peace and safety, then sudden destruction..."

Paul pulled that from the OT prophets about the time of the "day of the Lord", with that day of "sudden destruction". That day also represents the LAST DAY of this present world when Jesus comes to fight with His army, ending this present world.

Four times in Eze 38-39 it speaks of the children of Israel dwelling safely in the land... Eze 38:8,11 &14 and 39:26. I.e., they are dwelling there without fear of their enemies. What the IDF is currently doing is giving her great confidence (and others) that her enemies are no match for Israel's might/ power. They are not quite there yet, but they are moving in that direction.

Ezekiel 38 also speaks of Israel dwelling safely and WITHOUT WALLS. You do realize that the nation of Israel in the middle east has MANY WALLS, DON'T YOU? (Ezekiel 38:11) And the nation of Israel in the middle east definitely does not dwell safely; it is attacked often by Islamic radicals. So who else is God pointing to?

There are TWO ISRAELS in case you didn't know. If you study your Old Testament history about God splitting old Israel into two separate kingdoms, you'd have known this. And what's funny, is this point was just covered back in the Ezekiel 37 Chapter...

Ezek 37:21-22
21 And say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the children of Israel from among the heathen, whither they be gone, and will gather them on every side, and bring them into their own land:

22 And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all:
KJV

Some read Romans 9 about Paul's idea of a 'spiritual Israel' and totally miss the above, which is about God's split of old Israel into two separate kingdoms per 1 Kings 11 forward. The ten northern tribes became a separate people when God scattered them among the Gentiles. They lost their heritage as part of old Israel. But God used them as the original founders of the western Christian nations where the majority of them migrated to, in Asia Minor and Europe.

Does this mean those nations listed in Ezekiel 38 are going to attack the Christian West along with the middle east nation of Israel? Yes, most definitely. It will happen on the very LAST DAY of this world, which is when Lord Jesus with His army from Heaven will step in and stop it.

 

[Douggg]

Nor do I know why those in Judea are told to flee when the see the abomination of desolation in the holy place.

The reason will be that when the abomination of desolation statue image of the beast (king) is placed on the temple mount, persons in Judea will begin to be forced to come to the temple mount, bow down and worship the image or be executed.

 

[Aunty Jane]

Jesus said "that all power is given unto me", AFTER his resurrection. He also said that "all judgment is given me", the resurrections of life and eternal damnation, because [he is also] the Son of man. But Jesus will not reign over all things until God puts all things under his feet.

Firstly, why did Jesus need to be given “all authority in heaven and on earth”?
Did he not already have such authority if he was God incarnate?
Why does Jesus need to “sit at God’s right hand” and wait for his Father to “put his enemies under his feet”?

Sometimes it’s easy to read over what is written without understanding what is actually said.

Heb 1:2 KJV Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

He is the appointed heir of all things. That means it is for the appointed time when God sends his son to rule IN THE MIDST OF his enemies. [Cf Psalm 110] Hebrews 1 goes on to say;

Heb 1:13 KJV But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool?

Again what is this saying? Christ has an inheritance from his Father....so, what is he the “heir” to?
This inheritance is one he had to “wait” for...an “appointed time” when this would occur. For what reason does he need an inheritance...and why does he have to wait?
It says in Psalm 110:1-2 that Jesus would “rule in the midst of his enemies”.....so the rulership that Christ will bring to the world, does not mean immediate peace and security for his disciples on earth. Enemies will still be present as Jesus “separates the sheep from the goats” in these “last days”.

Heb 2:8 KJV Thou hast put all things in subjection under his feet. For in that he put all in subjection under him, he left nothing that is not put under him. But now we see not yet all things put under him.

The exercising of all things having been put under him, is reserved for the world to come. Christ will rule on this earth-in the midst of his enemies.

I have reason to believe that he is ruling already, and that the time will come for the accounting, separating and judgment that he foretold.....the majority however will not pass that judgment. We know this because Jesus already warned us that this would be the case. (Matt 7:13-14; 21-23)

The concluding part of that scripture is that when all things have been accomplished by the Kingdom’s rule of 1000 years, Jesus then, after one final test, hands back the reigns to Man’s rightful Sovereign.....His God and Father......the one who alone is “the only true God” (John 17:3) and whom Jesus serves as his “holy servant” (Acts 4:27, 30)

The "HE", who must reign, is the same "HE" that puts all enemies under Christ's feet. That is undeniably clear from Psalm 110 where God the Father is speaking to his Son... Sit at "MY" right hand until "I" make thine enemies thy [YOUR] footstool.

Yes...the clear distinction is there.....the son has always relied on his Father to carry out his will, and has supported him in all his works. God must be “all things to everyone”, but who are the “Israel” whom God will save?
The Scriptures make it clear that natural Israel failed in every aspect of their relationship to God, never staying true to their covenants and disobeying their God throughout their history. When God’s purpose was fulfilled in Israel’s producing their Messiah, when they rejected him and had him murdered, God rejected them, (Matt 23:37-39) and chose a new “Israel”......the Christian disciples of his son, who were all at first natural Jews, but who were later joined by many Gentile brothers, becoming what Paul called them...”the Israel of God”. (Gal 6:16) This is the “Israel” who are saved. This is the “Israel” who are given priesthood and rulership (rRev 20:6) being “born again” in a new spirit body to dwell in heaven and reign with their King Christ Jesus, “chosen from among mankind as firstfruits”, they will bring all things back into reconciliation with their Creator and reinstate his first purpose for mankind on this beautiful earth.

The land of Israel is no longer “holy” because it is saturated with blood. God has long abandoned natural Israel, otherwise they would not need to ally themselves with gentiles whose worship they despise. If God we’re fighting for Israel they would need no other support, as their history testifies.
Jesus himself indicated to the Samaritan woman at the well....
John 4:20-24...she said to him....
“Our forefathers worshipped on this mountain, but you people say that in Jerusalem is the place where people must worship.” 21  Jesus said to her: “Believe me, woman, the hour is coming when neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem will you worship the Father. 22  You worship what you do not know; we worship what we know, because salvation begins with the Jews. 23  Nevertheless, the hour is coming, and it is now, when the true worshippers will worship the Father with spirit and truth, for indeed, the Father is looking for ones like these to worship him. 24  God is a Spirit,+and those worshipping him must worship with spirit and truth.”

No geographical location on earth will be the seat of God’s worship under the rulership of his Kingdom, because the Temple arrangement and God’s worship on earth will no longer need to be geographical, but global. It is ruled from heaven over the whole earth.

God intended at the beginning of man’s creation to “fill the earth” with their children, meaning that God’s worship would not need to have just one “holy land”.....it will all be holy, as those saved will enjoy what what Adam and his wife lost for us at the beginning....everlasting life in paradise on earth. (Isa 55:11)

 

[ScottA]

Jesus said "that all power is given unto me", AFTER his resurrection. He also said that "all judgment is given me", the resurrections of life and eternal damnation, because [he is also] the Son of man. But Jesus will not reign over all things until God puts all things under his feet.

That is manifestly clear from Hebrews 1 and 2.

Heb 1:2 KJV Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

He is the appointed heir of all things. That means it is for the appointed time when God sends his son to rule IN THE MIDST OF his enemies. [Cf Psalm 110] Hebrews 1 goes on to say;

Heb 1:13 KJV But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool?

It is not the angels, but it is the Son who sits at God's right hand, expecting till his enemies be made his footstool. Further it says,

Heb 2:5 KJV For unto the angels hath he not put in subjection the world to come, whereof we speak.

... the world to come... not this present world! Reiteratimg what Paul said in 1COR15 It says this:

Heb 2:8 KJV Thou hast put all things in subjection under his feet. For in that he put all in subjection under him, he left nothing that is not put under him. But now we see not yet all things put under him.

The exercising of all things having been put under him, is reserved for the world to come. Christ will rule on this earth-in the midst of his enemies.

1Co 15:25 KJV For he. [GOD] must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.

The "HE", who must reign, is the same "HE" that puts all enemies under Christ's feet. That is undeniably clear from Psalm 110 where God the Father is speaking to his Son... Sit at "MY" right hand until "I" make thine enemies thy [YOUR] footstool.

Okay, so what is at issue is when God has put all enemies under His feet. So far so good.

However, then comes the false doctrine that says that it has not yet occurred, in direct contradiction with Heb 2:8. Which is only properly understood if considering that "But now we see not yet all things put under him." For it was already stated as, "he left nothing that is not put under him." Therefore, the second part only refers to the fact that they themselves had not yet seen it--which is not the same thing as saying it has not yet happened--which should be obvious because it is already stated that it had, even completely.

In other words, all Jesus' enemies had already been put under his feet--but they had not seen it yet. Which--as I said before--is a confirmation of Jesus' explanation, saying He would not come "by observation." Meaning, those who expected to "see" what Jesus said would not be seen--did not take Him serious--did not believe Him, and made up a doctrine that fit their expectations.

Do you not seeing understand this?

 

[ScottA]

I think that that day will not arrive until the apostasy comes and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction - the one who will oppose and exalt himself above every so-called god or object of worship, and as a result will take his seat in God's sanctuary [G3588, G3485, o naos - the sanctuary (of God), displaying himself as God. (2 Thessalonians 2:1-4).

2 Thessalonians 2:1-4 is a very misunderstood passage.

It sounds like the devil incarnate must show up like a man first...and take up residence in God's sanctuary. Which is accurate enough--but not understood properly. In other words, if every fallen man--the son of our father Satan--is first born of the flesh...then Satan seats himself "within" that man's heart..."but each one in his own order"--it's an abomination.

That "man of sin" is us--revealed.

 

[KUWN]

I feel like things are on the fast track to the return of Jesus. After watching a recent episode of Watchman on the wall (I'm not a pre-tribber, but the guest interviewee (who is pre-trib) brought some things to light that I have not really seen the connection to current events like he made me to see). What Erick Stackelbeck and Amir Tsarfati brought out was this [it didn't change my view radically, but it opened my eyes]:
3 points:
1. Israel appears to be] in the immediate present,] on a crusade to subdue many of her nearby enemies...e.g Hamas, Hezbollah, Houthhis of Yemen, and Iran.
2. Anti-semitism continues to rise.
3. There is no mass incursion of Jews [aliyah] back to Israel from the nations of the world, namely from the US where nearly half of the world's Jews currently live.

Point #1 brings to mind two sets of scriptures.
A. The account of the Gog/ Magog war found in Eze 38-39
B.1 Thess 5 where it says "... peace and safety, then sudden destruction..."

Four times in Eze 38-39 it speaks of the children of Israel dwelling safely in the land... Eze 38:8,11 &14 and 39:26. I.e., they are dwelling there without fear of their enemies. What the IDF is currently doing is giving her great confidence (and others) that her enemies are no match for Israel's might/ power. They are not quite there yet, but they are moving in that direction.

At the same time national antisemitism is rising rapidly throughout the world. If Israel refuses to recognize the nations of the world (but not the USA) clamoring for a two state solution, national antisemitism will become intensely more manifest. As long as Hamas is not completely destroyed, Israel will not recognize a hamas-led Palestinian state. This will intensify the world's hatred of the Jews. But the non-israelite Jews of the world, currently do not feel compelled to aliyah. Nor has Israel accomplished [yet!] her goal to dwell peacefully in her land. But I believe it is coming. And when it does [come], this is when she will feel at ease to build her temple.
And, as antisemitism reaches a fever pitch, the compulsion to aliyah will grow stronger. And as work on the temple then proceeds, this will also enhance the compulsion for Jews to aliyah. And once the temple is completed, there will be a massive cry of peace and safety through out the land of Israel. This is when I believe the sudden destruction will come.

All three factors seem to be moving toward the ultimate end of peace and safety being proclaimed throughout the land of Israel, hastening the coming day of the Lord!

1Th 5:1-3 KJV 1 But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you. 2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. 3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

What do you think?

Be Blessed
The PuP

Just a reality check, yes, some of the current events do align with Ezek 38 and 39. But it is entirely possible that Christ will not return for his Church/Bride in the next 200 to 400 years. Live as if the Rapture was going to happen tomorrow, but be prepared if it doesn't happen for the next 400 years.