Bible Study: The Gospel is in the Torah

[Behold]

You are just presenting a filibuster to dodge the salient issue.

You are talking in circles because you dont understand the Blood Atonement.

Let me explain Salvation to you.. as God provided it. @shepherdsword

-
There exists in Heaven, Eternal Holy God, who is Righteousness.
And there is Heaven, where there is only Righteousness, found.

So, the eternal issue is.....how can a sinner, who is unrighteous, become "one with God" and go to Heaven?

A.) So, God became a man, and died on The Cross so that by His blood and death Sacrifice, that is the NEW Covenant... God could deal with all our sin, and then give us His very own Righteousness.

And now being "made righteous", by the "imputed righteousness of Christ"... that is """ the GIFT of Righteousness"" we are become born again, = joined to God, spiritually.

See that? That is Salvation and its eternal.
That is Eternal Life. That is what it means to be "IN Christ"..

Now......notice this verse carefully...

"""""""Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for Righteousness."""""

Notice that God counted or imputed = RIGHTEOUSNESS to Abraham, soley and only based on Abrahams faith.

And God does the same for us.., as our "Faith is counted by God as (Christ's) Righteousness".

The means that the Believer has received RIGHTEOUSNESS from God, as a GIFT......>"The Gift of Righteousness".

Does God accept anyone who does righteousness or not? Yes or No only please.

A.) NO.

God accepts a person ONLY based on the finished work of Jesus on The Cross.

Or as Jesus told you.....::"No person comes to the FATHER........but by (through) ME".....

John 14:6

And he's talking to you @shepherdsword .

 

[shepherdsword]

A.) NO.

Then you deny what Peter said. I may not agree with everything epi says but he is 100% correct that people cherrypick and try to oppose scriptures with other scriptures as if they contradicted each other. As if God had multiple personalities. All of this to maintain an incomplete understanding of what faith is. The Pharisees were so deluded by their strict adherence to sabbath keeping that they thought any miracle performed on the sabbath could not be from God. We gentiles have our own strict adherences that blind us to true faith as well.

 

[Behold]

Then you deny what Peter said. I may not agree with everything epi said but he is 100% correct that people cherrypick and try to oppose scriptures

You posted one verse.
Ive posted over many more.

So.....we'll See you there Mr Cherry Picker of the "nations".

with other scriptures as if they contradicted each other.

Scriptures never contradict.

As if God had multiple personalities.

God designed Salvation, as an eternal Gift from Him, which allows a sinner to be made righteous without works or law keeping.

This is "Justificaiton by Faith".. ."without works or deeds of the Law".

This is Paul's Doctrine.

All of this to maintain an incomplete understanding of what faith is.

Faith is the substance of things Hoped for and the evidence of things.......not seen.

Faith is found in the Heart as Trust.

Faith in Christ is the only reason that God will accept a sinner, and forgive them, and give them His 'imputed" Righteousness".

The Pharisees were so deluded by their strict adherence to sabbath keeping that they thought any miracle performed on the sabbath could not be from God. We gentiles have our own strict adherences that blind us to true faith as well.

Legalism is trying to be good enough for God to accept.

The heart of PRIDE....is trying to earn God's acceptance by doing works, as this is Self Righteousness.

So, if you are trying to do righteousness so that God will have you and keep you...., then you are a Legalist, and you are deceived and very self righteous.

 

[Episkopos]

I have a question. If the same rich young ruler asked Jesus if he should get circumcized, don't you think Jesus would have said "yes" because it was before his death? What if he asked the same question to the apostles after his resurrection?

The young man was probably circumcised, or at least it was not an issue. Peter makes it plain that the standard of God is the same for all men on the righteousness level. Peter sees that God accepts ALL people who fear Him and work righteousness. God will judge the world in righteousness (not holiness) (not in an exclusivity when it comes to INHERITING life.

It's when it comes to being a holy people that circumcision comes into play. Of course the salvation of the NT is about circumcision of the heart....not just the flesh.

Where do you land on this:

Ro 15:8 Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers:

Jesus came to His people, the Jews. Jesus fulfilled the scriptures based on the Father sending Him to be a saviour of the people. As such the Jews must believe in Jesus even to be righteous, based on the works He did in their midst. But the nations don't have that requirement...when we consider that inheriting is based on God's mercy. The saint does more than inherit life....the NT is about glory. Having treasure in heaven.

 

[Behold]

God accepts ALL people who fear Him and work righteousness.

God does not "accept all people who work righteousness".......

God accepts SINNERS who have given God their Faith in Christ., because this is how you "OBEY The Gospel".

@Episkopos ...You are again teaching your False Gospel that is without JESUS......... and without The Cross..= as your false Gospel.

Your Gospel is this one......... Galatians 1:8

This makes you a PUBLIC CROSS Rejector, who teaches a FALSE Gospel, and God knows you've done it for many years now on this Forum.

Slo, do you want to try to do some damage control and now come running back in here and use the words.. "Jesus" and "Cross" in a few sentences so that some of these easily deceived religious children will continue to listen to you and your false theology?

 

[shepherdsword]

You posted one verse.
Ive posted over many more.

So.....we'll See you there Mr Cherry Picker of the "nations".



Scriptures never contradict.




God designed Salvation, as an eternal Gift from Him, which allows a sinner to be made righteous without works or law keeping.

This is "Justificaiton by Faith".. ."without works or deeds of the Law".

This is Paul's Doctrine.




Faith is the substance of things Hoped for and the evidence of things.......not seen.

Faith is found in the Heart as Trust.

Faith in Christ is the only reason that God will accept a sinner, and forgive them, and give them His 'imputed" Righteousness".



Legalism is trying to be good enough for God to accept.

The heart of PRIDE....is trying to earn God's acceptance by doing works, as this is Self Righteousness.

So, if you are trying to do righteousness so that God will have you and keep you...., then you are a Legalist, and you are deceived and very self righteous.

You just post verses that you really don't understand, as if they are some magical words. You confuse obedience with legalism and intellectual acknowledgment for true faith. The devils believe and they tremble. I am not condemning you...I am just pointing out that you only present part of the picture because you are unable to reconcile your view with the whole council of God.

 

[Episkopos]

God does not "accept all people who work righteousness".......

God accepts SINNERS who have given God their Faith in Christ., because this is how you "OBEY The Gospel".

@Episkopos ...You are again teaching your False Gospel that is without JESUS......... and without The Cross..= as your false Gospel.

Your Gospel is this one......... Galatians 1:8

This makes you a PUBLIC CROSS Rejector, who teaches a FALSE Gospel, and God knows you've done it for many years now on this Forum.

Slo, do you want to try to do some damage control and now come running back in here and use the words.. "Jesus" and "Cross" in a few sentences so that some of these easily deceived religious children will continue to listen to you and your false theology?

I point out what Jesus said in three of the gospels...and what Peter said after inaugurating the Gentile believers into the church by the Holy Spirit...and you freak out. I think maybe you are very wrong in your assessment.

 

[Behold]

You just post verses that you really don't understand, as if they are some magical words.

You can't even try to discuss what Im posting because you have no understanding of God's Gift of Salvation, who is Jesus on The Cross.

Listen..

JESUS is Salvation........not your silly works. @shepherdsword .

You confuse obedience with legalism and true faith for intellectual acknowledgment.

God requires that we "obey the Gospel".

2 Thess 1: 1-8 details what happens to those who have not OBEYED the Gospel.

And the Gospel is not related to "doing righteousness""......The Gospel is how to receive Righteousness from God, as "the Gift of Righteousness"...

That's Paul's Gosple, and any other is : Galatians 1:8

The Gospel : is Christ's Shed Blood and Death on The Cross, followed by His Resurrectioon... that is the new Covenant and the Blood Atonement.

The "Gospel" is the message of Reconciliation, whereby God can accept a SINNER, ONLY becasue they have "obeyed the Gospel".

"Justifcation BY Faith".. "without works or deeds of the Law".

The devils believe and they tremble.

Devil's are not "made in the image of God".

Salvation is made only For Mankind.

"Devils" can't be saved becasue they are not Human @shepherdsword

.I am just pointing out that you only present part of the picture

The Part of the Picture im posting for you, is Jesus on The Cross as your only chance to become a Christian.

There is no other WAY...."John 14:6".

 

[Behold]

I point out what Jesus said in three of the gospels.

When you learn what Paul's Gosple teaches, you'll being to understand THE Gospel.

Otherwise you remain a : Galatians 1:8

(Paul wrote that verse). @Episkopos


Let me explain Salvation to you.. as God provided it. @nedsk

-
There exists in Heaven, Eternal Holy God, who is Righteousness.
And there is Heaven, where there is only Righteousness, found.

So, the eternal issue is.....how can a sinner, who is unrighteous, become "one with God" and go to heaven?

A.) So, God became a man, and died on The Cross so that by His blood and death Sacrifice, that is the NEW Covenant... God could deal with all our sin, and then give us His very own Righteousness.

And now being "made righteous", by the "imputed righteousness of Christ"... that is """ the GIFT of Righteousness"" we are become born again, = joined to God, spiritually.

See that? That is Salvation and its eternal.
That is Eternal Life. That is what it means to be "IN Christ"..

Now......notice this verse carefully...

"""""""Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for Righteousness."""""

Notice that God counted or imputed = RIGHTEOUSNESS to Abraham, soley and only based on Abrahams faith.

And God does the same for us.., as our "Faith is counted by God as (Christ's) Righteousness".
The means that the Believer has received RIGHTEOUSNESS from God, as a GIFT......>"The Gift of Righteousness.

 

[shepherdsword]

Now......notice this verse carefully...

"""""""Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for Righteousness."""""

Notice that God counted or imputed = RIGHTEOUSNESS to Abraham, soley and only based on Abrahams faith.

And God does the same for us.., as our "Faith is counted by God as (Christ's) Righteousness".
The means that the Believer has received RIGHTEOUSNESS from God, as a GIFT......>"The Gift of Righteousness.

Once again you cherrypick and ignore the full council of God

Now notice these verses carefully:

Jas 2:21-24
Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect? And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God. Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

 

[amigo de christo]

Pay attention in class. Jesus only charged the young man with the righteousness commandments to INHERIT life.

You need to read more carefully with your own ideas aside. Listen to Jesus. Jesus did NOT charge the young man with the holy commandments in order to inherit life. You need more honesty and reading skills.

Of course there is also the tablet based on the holiness laws. But those laws are fulfilled in Christ who is our holiness...for those who enter INTO Him to walk as He walked...in the higher walk in Zion...in the kingdom realm. But to INHERIT life one doesn't have to be a saint. One can be among the righteous....the saved of the nations.

The rest is fluff as a cover-up for not listening to Jesus.

In Him is no sin. Whoever enters INTO Jesus walks in HIS holiness. (That we might be partakers of HIS holiness.)

So your scheme is neither righteous NOR holy. It is religious and dead.

The bible is WAAYYY over your head.

No epi , in fact most all of what you accused me of doing , Better go look in the mirror . That is the one who is
doing as you accused me of doing .

 

[amigo de christo]

Pay attention in class. Jesus only charged the young man with the righteousness commandments to INHERIT life.

You need to read more carefully with your own ideas aside. Listen to Jesus. Jesus did NOT charge the young man with the holy commandments in order to inherit life. You need more honesty and reading skills.

Of course there is also the tablet based on the holiness laws. But those laws are fulfilled in Christ who is our holiness...for those who enter INTO Him to walk as He walked...in the higher walk in Zion...in the kingdom realm. But to INHERIT life one doesn't have to be a saint. One can be among the righteous....the saved of the nations.

The rest is fluff as a cover-up for not listening to Jesus.

In Him is no sin. Whoever enters INTO Jesus walks in HIS holiness. (That we might be partakers of HIS holiness.)

So your scheme is neither righteous NOR holy. It is religious and dead.

The bible is WAAYYY over your head.

kinda odd epi . Examine what JESUS told any who failed to beleive on him
as well as the apostels in acts and other places .
BUT YOU THINK you know the law , you think you know righteousness , holiness
WHEN even the law and the propehts pointed to CHRIST
WHEN EVEN JESUS WHO IS THE CHRIST warned a whole lot about what would come upon those who did not believe
HE was CHRIST , SON OF GOD . I DONT SEE you preaching any kind of reminder WE NEED TO FIRST BELEIVE ON JESUS .
YOU the pharisee , you the one who preaches attaining rightousness apart FROM FAITH .
You the one in deadly dire grave danger . AS IF THE LAW can be fullfilled by those who have no love for GOD .
And lets fact it epi , IF ONE rejects JESUS IS THE CHRIST , WELL THEY GOT NO LOVE FOR GOD
Go ahead and preach what you h ave no idea about . YOU dont even know what it means TO LOVE GOD and your neighbor .
HOW do i know that . YOU WONT even preach and remind anyone about the dire need
TO BELEIVE ON THE ONE WHO GOD HIMSELF said and TESTIFIED OF . yeah . the bible is way over your head my friend

 

[Episkopos]

And is this toxic brew of bitterness, anger and false accusations the will of the Father, Epi?

If you can read, look at how I'm treated for posting verses from he bible...from Jesus Himself...and that is seen as evil It is so easy to discern the evil but the blind can't see their own blindness. No logic, no faith.

Unfortunately by this kind of behaviour you are bringing disrepute to the very holiness you purport to talk about. Not to mention rebuking people for things you are doing yourself. May God have mercy on you and heal and restore whatever is wrong.

You remind me of a character in the "lord of the Rings" I think his name is Grima Wormtongue. All venom and lies.

If people could be a little honest and not just indoctrinated we could get to the truth of God's ways in general and the way of life in Christ specifically. But as the bible says "you would not".

All I say is true and measured against the lies that are stopping people from entering the kingdom. Is it the wise that hate correction and reproof? Or the fool.

 

[Episkopos]

When you learn what Paul's Gosple teaches, you'll being to understand THE Gospel.

You don't understand Paul. Paul is ONLY speaking of the miraculous walk in Zion...the kingdom realm. You think he is justifying sinful men to speak against Jesus and the other apostles. You think he is creating a new religion based only on using Jesus for one's own benefit rather than submitting to His words. So obviously wrong if one has not drunk the Kool-aid, so to speak.

" As also in all his (Paul's) epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction." 2 Pet. 3:16

To they who would be wise...who else's writings in the bible comes with a warning?

 

[Lizbeth]

If you can read,

You keep justifying yourself Epi when you need to just face yourself in the mirror.

Even a few days ago I saw you rebuking someone for not being in a place you haven't been in for 23 years and that you couldn't take. You even justify yourself for that, saying it was because you misunderstood something or didn't understand something, when really it's a question of the heart. I find that everything tests us, in order to reveal the heart, so that it can be purged and healed. Seems to me like the Lord is always bringing us to the next thing we need to confront and overcome, and He is going deeper and deeper, to the roots of our life. If we are willing to be humble and contrite and honest with Him. And I believe the battle is the Lord's once we are willing to remove our fig leaves of self-justification and give over to Him, somehow by grace, whatever it is He is putting His finger on, because we can't change ourselves on the heart level.

 

[Behold]

You don't understand Paul. Paul is ONLY speaking of the miraculous walk in Zion..

Paul does not teach anything about "Zion".
THat's your pipe dream theology......remember ? @Episkopos

You like to pretend that you understand Salvation, but you dont.

Salvataion is very simple.... Jesus became one of us, to offer Himself as a Sacrifice to God for All of us, so that by Jesus's "one time eternal sacrifice""" on The Cross a Sinner can be forgiven. And after they are forgiven God will give them the new birth in the Spirit and they become "in Christ".. "one with God".....having received "imputed righteousness"........Paul teaches.

.the kingdom realm.

Every born again Christain exists in the Kingdom of God, having been born again INTO IT.
This is why every born again Christian is "seated in heavenly places, In Christ".....right now.
You are trying to get there by self effort, when in fact all the Real Christians are already there, right now.

" As also in all his (Paul's) epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest,

Paul said this about you @Episkopos ..

"they being IGNORANT of God's Righteousness, go about trying to establish their own"......and that is exactly your entire Self Righteous Cross rejecting Theology.
I like to remind you that youu have denied again and again, that The Cross is about Forgiveness of sin.
And so, when you deny that Jesus on The Cross is Forgiveness, then there is none left for you, as God has not provided it anywhere else.

 

[Behold]

All I say is true and measured against the lies that are stopping people from entering the kingdom.

The only reason a person does not "enter the Kingdom" is because they died in unbelief, never born again, never forgiven.

 

[Episkopos]

You keep justifying yourself Epi when you need to just face yourself in the mirror.

My testimony is about justifying the Lord.. You hear me the way you are...justifying yourself without God's approval.

Even a few days ago I saw you rebuking someone for not being in a place you haven't been in for 23 years and that you couldn't take.

More lies from you. I don't rebuke people for not being holy, I do so when people like yourself are dishonest. IOW a sin against righteousness (holiness sins are a whole other issue)

How can people claim t be converted to Christ whereby that conversion does NOT go deeper than the dishonesty with which people defend their own grasp of things they read in the bible...totally ignoring truth in favour of what tickles the ear.

You even justify yourself for that, saying it was because you misunderstood something or didn't understand something, when really it's a question of the heart.

A lie. You are fully rebellious against the truth so I write this for others...

The first time I fell from grace was by my will...not wanting to stay in a walk with a self-less God....I was too selfish, looking for my own life and happiness. The second time was due to a lack of understanding of righteousness. I had been walking in Christ's perfection for a few years at that point. But I was fooled by a false prophet who convinced me I was wrong in my assessment.

A verse that I misunderstood, that was used against me, was one that fools most bible readers today.

That of Paul declaring ..."not having a righteousness of my own". I took that to mean that righteousness was NOT what God was looking for in the saint...as in...NOT being righteous myself...Of course the translation is very poor from the Greek which actually should sound more like...Not trying to establish a righteousness of my own.

And Lizbeth this is so far beyond your understanding...please don't respond and condemn yourself further.

I find that everything tests us, in order to reveal the heart, so that it can be purged and healed. Seems to me like the Lord is always bringing us to the next thing we need to confront and overcome, and He is going deeper and deeper, to the roots of our life. If we are willing to be humble and contrite and honest with Him. And I believe the battle is the Lord's once we are willing to remove our fig leaves of self-justification and give over to Him, somehow by grace, whatever it is He is putting His finger on, because we can't change ourselves on the heart level.

Always learning but never coming to the knowledge of the truth. Unless your religious conversion EXCEEDS the reaction of dishonesty and self-righteousness, there is no good end.

While you think to tweak your idea of salvation, here a little there a little...the Lord would have you repent from your whole scheme.

 

[Episkopos]

Quick bible lesson.

You can't work righteousness to be accepted by God....., and this is why You have to be given "The Gift of Righteousness".......by God, as the "imputed righteousness" of Christ, so that by this imputation, you are now become : "The righteousness of God, in Christ".

Welcome to : BORN Again.

Sinners, are unrighteous.......so, the unrighteous can't "work righteousness"...

The UNRIGHTEOUS can do good works, but "all our works are as filthy wrags" before God, who IS Righteouness.

Bible lesson #2...

If a SINNER, could "do righteousness"....... it would not matter, because they are still a SINNER who will not go to heaven, until they are given the "imputed rightousness" of Christ.....that is """The Gift of Righteousness"""...

The Cross of Christ is where GOD deals with the SIN of a sinner, through the Blood of Jesus., and this is the only Way that God will accept anyone.

Bible lesson #3

For if, by the trespass of the one man, death reigned through that one man, how much more will those who receive God’s abundant provision of grace and of the Gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man, Jesus Christ!

New Living Translation
""""For the sin of this one man, Adam, caused death to rule over many. But even greater is God’s wonderful grace and His Gift of Righteousness, for all who receive it will live in triumph over sin and death through this one man, Jesus Christ.""""

English Standard Version
For if, because of one man’s trespass, death reigned through that one man, much more will those who receive the abundance of grace and THE = Free GIFT of RIGHTEOUSNESS reign in life through the one man Jesus Christ.

You make it sound like being born again is the end of the race as opposed to the beginning of a race that few will run lawfully and to a good conclusion. Paul says, many run the race but one wins the prize. Paul was afraid of being disqualified by not running lawfully...

 

[ProDeo]

My testimony is about justifying the Lord.. You hear me the way you are...justifying yourself without God's approval.




More lies from you. I don't rebuke people for not being holy, I do so when people like yourself are dishonest. IOW a sin against righteousness (holiness sins are a whole other issue)

How can people claim t be converted to Christ whereby that conversion does NOT go deeper than the dishonesty with which people defend their own grasp of things they read in the bible...totally ignoring truth in favour of what tickles the ear.


A lie. You are fully rebellious against the truth so I write this for others...

The first time I fell from grace was by my will...not wanting to stay in a walk with a self-less God....I was too selfish, looking for my own life and happiness. The second time was due to a lack of understanding of righteousness. I had been walking in Christ's perfection for a few years at that point. But I was fooled by a false prophet who convinced me I was wrong in my assessment.

A verse that I misunderstood, that was used against me, was one that fools most bible readers today.

That of Paul declaring ..."not having a righteousness of my own". I took that to mean that righteousness was NOT what God was looking for in the saint...as in...NOT being righteous myself...Of course the translation is very poor from the Greek which actually should sound more like...Not trying to establish a righteousness of my own.

And Lizbeth this is so far beyond your understanding...please don't respond and condemn yourself further.



Always learning but never coming to the knowledge of the truth. Unless your religious conversion EXCEEDS the reaction of dishonesty and self-righteousness, there is no good end.

While you think to tweak your idea of salvation, here a little there a little...the Lord would have you repent from your whole scheme.

More rants today....

When is the last time you asked for forgiveness ?