Do you know the text neither says that nor implies it? This is added by the reader sometimes.
Much love!
Bible Study: The Gospel is in the Torah
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Much love!
There are branches that do abide in Jesus, and those branches may or may not bear fruit. There are branches that do not abide in Jesus.
To say that they once did is to make the same kind of assumption as when I point to a house and tell you, "I don't abide there", and you assume that means I once had, though I never did.
Much love!
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Matt 5:22 But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother will be liable to judgment; whoever insults his brother will be liable to the council; and whoever says, ‘You fool!’ will be liable to the hell of fire.
I am pretty sure you aware of Jesus words.
An honest reading shows the implication.
Jn 15:2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away:
The branches that are IN him are taken away if they don't bear fruit. If they are IN him then they must have at one time been attached.
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
yes
the word takes away should be translated lifts up..
not take away
its talking about bearing fruit. God prunes us, or lifts us up so that we can produce fruit
That doesn't work with:
Jn 15:6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
it abides well
because it is talking about bearing fruit. not being saved.
Those who are saved abide in christ. and God prunes them, lifts them up and chastens them so that they bear fruit.
Look at the passage.
John 15:1-6 EMTV
1) "I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser.
2) Every branch in Me which does not bear fruit He takes away; and every branch which bears fruit He prunes, so that it may bear more fruit.
3) You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you.
4) Abide in Me, and I in you. Just as the branch cannot bear fruit on its own, unless it abides in the vine, so neither can you unless you abide in Me.
5) I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; because apart from Me you can do nothing.
6) If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out like a branch and dries up; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned.
There are two branches, not three. There is the branch in Jesus that bears fruit, there is the branch in Jesus that does not bear fruit. These are the two branches that are in Jesus.
There is a person who does not abide in Jesus, and like a branch that is cast out and dried up, that one is also cast out, but was never named as someone who was "In Christ". That is often assumed by the reader, but it's not there.
Much love!
Every branch In Jesus that does not bear fruit the Father carries away.
Are YOU giving this an honest reading? Are you implying others are NOT?
Much love!
There is a lot of lattitude given on this forum, as threads like this one amply demonstrate!
Much love!
The gifts of God are without repentance. I am taking the precious from the vile...the authentic from the pretensions.
Acts 17:29-31 LITV
29) Then being offspring of God, we ought not to suppose that the Godhead is like gold or silver or stone, engraved by art and the imagination of man.
30) Truly, then, God overlooking the times of ignorance, now strictly commands all men everywhere to repent,
31) because He set a day in which "He is going to judge the habitable world in righteousness," by a Man whom He appointed; having given proof to all by raising Him from the dead.
At one time God overlooked sin from men's ignorance, but now does not. So then Cornelius was accepted for his righteous acts, still God required believing in Jesus.
Much love!
mailmandan
Well-Known Member
I see two kinds of connections with Christ as the vine. A spiritual and vital connection that bears fruit and a non spiritual and non vital connection that bears no fruit. (John 15:2) A saving relationship with Jesus Christ is inseparable from bearing spiritual fruit. Faith without works is dead.
*All genuine believers are fruitful, but not all are equally fruitful. (Matthew 13:23)
Those who bear no fruit at all demonstrate, they have not been truly converted and have a spurious faith. So, those who profess to know Christ but whose relationship to Him is self-attached, Christ neither saved them, nor sustains them. Eventually, the dead self-attached fruitless branches are cut off.
He is compared to a branch. Jesus is using things the people know well.
Jesus speaks of two branches that are in Him, and He also speaks of a man who is not a branch, and is not in Him.
Take notice of these things.
Maybe it means the passage means something different from what you thought. I'm pointing out what it does and does not say.
Much love!
You are pointing out what you THINK it says. It is comparing the man to a branch that shall be cast forth and burned. Please show a single place where any of the branches were not IN him. I think the real question should be. "what fruit is he looking for?"
John 15:1-6 KJV
1) I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.
2) Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.
3) Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.
4) Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
5) I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
6) If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.
You can read it for yourself.
Those who are "in Christ" are called branches, in relation to bearing or not bearing fruit. Those who are not in Christ are not called branches, but are compared to the branches people gather for their fires.
Much love!
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Yikes Epi.
Rev 2:5 Remember therefore from where you have fallen; repent, and do the works you did at first. If not, I will come to you and remove your lampstand from its place, unless you repent.
Rev 2:16 Therefore repent. If not, I will come to you soon and war against them with the sword of my mouth.
Rev 3:3 Remember, then, what you received and heard. Keep it, and repent. If you will not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what hour I will come against you.
Rev 3:19 Those whom I love, I reprove and discipline, so be zealous and repent.
I guess these churches did not walk in Zion.
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