Can any of you link or share a good argument against FULL preterism?

[Truth7t7]

Right. He just doesn't have the typical preterist belief that Jesus returned in 70 AD, but instead thinks His second coming was His resurrection, which obviously is not true.

Yes he falsely claims everything was fulfilled at the cross of Calvary and the Lord's resurrection, no further fulfillment will take place "Full Preterist"

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Yes he falsely claims everything was fulfilled at the cross of Calvary and the Lord's resurrection, no further fulfillment will take place "Full Preterist"

I had never seen that view before. We have several people on this forum who have views all to themselves. I don't know why they think that God only reveals truth to them and no one else.

 

[HealthyShape]

Are you of the impression that AI has a living spirit? Because the things of God must be spiritually discerned!

1 Corinthians 2:10-16 (KJV) But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God. For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God. Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual. But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man. For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.

AI is great for logical tasks like the analysis of texts and language parsing.

Regarding theology, we all have a living spirit and we do not seem to agree which eschatology is the right one, still. Right? AI is another tool we can use.

If AI supported your view instead of preterism, would you also try to dismiss it?

 

[HealthyShape]

And I Disagree With Your Biased Preterist opinions

Labeling it with various nice adjectives (biased, false, heretical, whatever) is probably all you can do.

 

[HealthyShape]

No need to use AI, it's nothing more than mans programmed opinion

You obviously do not know how AI functions and how it is useful, but it is off-topic here.

It's a good thing we have the actual writings of the Apostolic Church Fathers

It is a better thing we have the actual writings of the apostles and the actual words of Jesus, not just "I heard from someone" traditions in medieval manuscripts.

Preterism is a farce in false teaching IMHO and it ain't changing anytime soon

It is just reading the words of the New Testament as they were meant and not ignoring the most significant judgement of Judah and Jerusalem in history (70 AD).

These two simple things seem to disturb many modern Christians.

 

[Truth7t7]

I had never seen that view before. We have several people on this forum who have views all to themselves. I don't know why they think that God only reveals truth to them and no one else.

John 14:26KJV
26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

Phillipians 2:12KJV
12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

Luke 18:8KJV
8 I tell you that he will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?

 

[Truth7t7]

I had never seen that view before. We have several people on this forum who have views all to themselves. I don't know why they think that God only reveals truth to them and no one else.

Do you believe God speaks through mass denominational teachings such as the "Baptist" teaching a future pre-trib rapture and Millennial kingdom on this earth?

Do you believe God speaks through mass denominational teachings such as reformed theologies preterist teachings of 70AD fulfillment in Jerusalems and Roman armies or denial of a future evil human man as being John's (The Beast) in Revelation Chapter 13?

Do you believe God speaks through mass denominational teachings such as reformed theologies denial seen in Revelation Chapter 11 in the (Two Witnesses) being literal prophets returned in physical bodies that are killed and die, laying dead in a literal street in Jerusalem where Jesus was crucified?

Jesus Is The Lord

 

[IndianaRob]

What does this even mean? Tell me exactly what your understanding is of us having the Spirit of Christ. What exactly do you believe the Spirit of Christ is?

The Spirit of Christ is love, peace, joy, kindness, goodness, patience etc. The contrast is the spirit of antichrist.

What I was saying before is that a person can’t have the Spirit of God if they don’t have the Spirit of Christ. The Spirit of Christ is the evidence of true faith.

 

[IndianaRob]

In my view your belief is a version of full preterism because you do not believe in the future blessed hope of the future appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ at which time the dead in Christ will be bodily resurrected and at which time He will have His own gathered to Him in the air.

The only view I share with preterism is the view that all has been fulfilled. I don’t agree with preterist on when and how it was fulfilled or anything Josephus had to say. Josephus was an obvious fraud.

 

[HealthyShape]

Josephus was an obvious fraud.

Tacitus too?

 

[HealthyShape]

Was Josephus a fraud?

Short answer: No, Josephus was not a fraud, but some passages in his works (most notably the Testimonium Flavianum about Jesus) show signs of later Christian interpolation or editorial alteration.

Josephus (Yosef ben Matityahu, c. 37–100 CE) is a genuine first‑century historian whose major works — The Jewish War and Antiquities of the Jews — are accepted as authentic ancient texts and are widely used by scholars for 1st‑century Jewish and Roman history.

“Fraud” would mean he fabricated his works or knowingly forged major events; mainstream scholarship does not treat him that way. He wrote as an aristocratic Jewish intellectual who collaborated with Rome after 67 CE; his partial Roman sympathy and rhetorical self‑justifications have long been noted, but these are not forgeries.

Textual issues: some short passages in later manuscripts appear to reflect Christian editorial activity. The best‑known example is the Testimonium Flavianum (Antiquities 18.63–64).

----

There are some few small places in the manuscripts that appear to be later Christian edits. But Josephus as a historian was not a fraud.

 

[IndianaRob]

Tacitus too?

We don’t know much about him so it’s hard to say for sure but he was part of the ruling elite families so most likely he was a fraud too.

 

[rwb]

AI is great for logical tasks like the analysis of texts and language parsing.

Regarding theology, we all have a living spirit and we do not seem to agree which eschatology is the right one, still. Right? AI is another tool we can use.

If AI supported your view instead of preterism, would you also try to dismiss it?

There's a BIG difference between our natural living spirit that gives our body physical life and the supernatural Spirit that guides believers unto biblical truths! I don't dismiss AI, it is very real and still relatively unknown how it will impact the human race. My point is that we cannot use something without the Spirit of God and assume it has properly discerned spiritual truths. The Word of God expressly tells us that things of God cannot be properly discerned apart from the Living Spirit of God in us.

 

[rwb]

You obviously do not know how AI functions and how it is useful, but it is off-topic here.


It is a better thing we have the actual writings of the apostles and the actual words of Jesus, not just "I heard from someone" traditions in medieval manuscripts.


It is just reading the words of the New Testament as they were meant and not ignoring the most significant judgement of Judah and Jerusalem in history (70 AD).

These two simple things seem to disturb many modern Christians.

It's even better when we are able to understand things of God through His Spirit within teaching us! That's one of the problems with so many eschatological assumptions! Take Full Preterits for example. You read the Scriptures using only what you naturally know through physical mind. When you're shown what the verse in question means when interpreted spiritually rather than material/or literally you refuse to engage and simply ignore another way of understanding because your human pride refuses to accept that your doctrine is unbiblical. To Full Preterits rather than understanding the Bible was written for the Church as the Kingdom of God in heaven is being spiritually built, you believe the Bible is primarily written to an ethnic people who are called Israel after the flesh. Therefore, your doctrine focuses almost entirely upon Israel after the flesh without even understanding that Israel of Old and Israel of today do not belong to Israel of God comprised of both Jew and Gentile of faith.

 

[rwb]

Was Josephus a fraud?

Short answer: No, Josephus was not a fraud, but some passages in his works (most notably the Testimonium Flavianum about Jesus) show signs of later Christian interpolation or editorial alteration.

Josephus (Yosef ben Matityahu, c. 37–100 CE) is a genuine first‑century historian whose major works — The Jewish War and Antiquities of the Jews — are accepted as authentic ancient texts and are widely used by scholars for 1st‑century Jewish and Roman history.

“Fraud” would mean he fabricated his works or knowingly forged major events; mainstream scholarship does not treat him that way. He wrote as an aristocratic Jewish intellectual who collaborated with Rome after 67 CE; his partial Roman sympathy and rhetorical self‑justifications have long been noted, but these are not forgeries.

Textual issues: some short passages in later manuscripts appear to reflect Christian editorial activity. The best‑known example is the Testimonium Flavianum (Antiquities 18.63–64).

----

There are some few small places in the manuscripts that appear to be later Christian edits. But Josephus as a historian was not a fraud.

Problem is Josephus, like AI was not a believer, and did not have the Holy Spirit of God teaching him, his writings therefore cannot be used apart from the Holy Word of God because his writing was NOT under the inspiration of God as our Bible is. What he writes regarding the physical history of the Jewish people is helpful, but he is silent when it comes to understanding of how the coming of Christ ushered in the spiritual Kingdom of God, and to know and enter the Kingdom of God man MUST be born again!

 

[HealthyShape]

There's a BIG difference between our natural living spirit that gives our body physical life and the supernatural Spirit that guides believers unto biblical truths! I don't dismiss AI, it is very real and still relatively unknown how it will impact the human race. My point is that we cannot use something without the Spirit of God and assume it has properly discerned spiritual truths. The Word of God expressly tells us that things of God cannot be properly discerned apart from the Living Spirit of God in us.

If you read my post carefully, I did not ask the AI to "discern spiritual truths" (whatever you mean by that). I asked it to analyze which eschatological view is objectively (without any theological bias) corresponding to the text of the New Testament the most.

It was a logical analytical task.

If the AI supported your view (whatever it is, I do not know), would you still feel a need to put it down?

 

[HealthyShape]

Problem is Josephus, like AI was not a believer

It is not a problem, it is actually an advantage - they are not theologically biased sources.

 

[HealthyShape]

It's even better when we are able to understand things of God through His Spirit within teaching us! That's one of the problems with so many eschatological assumptions! Take Full Preterits for example. You read the Scriptures using only what you naturally know through physical mind. When you're shown what the verse in question means when interpreted spiritually rather than material/or literally you refuse to engage and simply ignore another way of understanding because your human pride refuses to accept that your doctrine is unbiblical. To Full Preterits rather than understanding the Bible was written for the Church as the Kingdom of God in heaven is being spiritually built, you believe the Bible is primarily written to an ethnic people who are called Israel after the flesh. Therefore, your doctrine focuses almost entirely upon Israel after the flesh without even understanding that Israel of Old and Israel of today do not belong to Israel of God comprised of both Jew and Gentile of faith.

A terrible post full of wrong assumptions. You just try to give yourself the advantage of "I am spiritual, you are not", so that only you can decide which verses are literal and which are "spiritual" and when somebody does not agree, you will label them prideful, natural etc. Because you do not know how else to defend your views.

 

[Truth7t7]

The only view I share with preterism is the view that all has been fulfilled.

Yes the very meaning of preterism

I don’t agree with preterist on when and how it was fulfilled or anything Josephus had to say. Josephus was an obvious fraud.

I Agree, Josephus was a Jew and a traitor to his people, he defected during the 66-70AD war as a military commander and joined Romes armies as chief propagandists for the Emperors

 

[rwb]

A terrible post full of wrong assumptions. You just try to give yourself the advantage of "I am spiritual, you are not", so that only you can decide which verses are literal and which are "spiritual" and when somebody does not agree, you will label them prideful, natural etc. Because you do not know how else to defend your views.

It appears you don't have understanding of how those who are indwelt with the Spirit of Christ have the ability to spiritually discern the Scriptures. Having spiritual discernment through the Spirit of Christ in me comes from study and knowing what is written in His Word. For instance when we have spiritual understanding through studying to show ourselves "approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth." (2Tim 2:15) That means being able to know when the doctrines we approve force contradiction upon the Word of God. One thing no true believer should ever disagree with is that the Bible is not contradictory ever! If the doctrine we espouse appears to cause contradiction in the Bible, it's because our doctrine has not rightly divided the Word of Truth!

An example of having spiritual discernment is being familiar enough with the Word of God to know something we believe cannot be reconciled with other verses that speak of the same subject matter.

For instance, let's look at how the Full Preterit interprets the follow passage:

Mt 16:28 Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.
Lu 9:27 But I tell you of a truth, there be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the kingdom of God.

The Preterits doctrine claims this is proof that Christ came again because those whom He was speaking to had to still be physically alive to see the Son of man coming in His Kingdom. The obvious problem of course is that other verses tell us that Christ will not come again before the last trumpet sounds at the end of this age. While Preterits might try very hard to tell us why their doctrine does not force contradiction, an honest evaluation says it absolutely does!

How would the student of the Word through the Spirit of Christ within, spiritually discern this passage so there is no contradiction? By looking at the Greek, and usage elsewhere from which the words were translated. In doing so through spiritual discernment we learn the word "see" in the passage is not with physical sight, but with mental understanding, have knowledge of, perceive, understand. This knowledge should prove to the Preterits the meaning of what Christ has said. With this spiritually led understanding we hear Christ saying that some of the first century people hearing Him would not die before being born again. We know this is true because Christ tells us that none can know (see) the Kingdom of God or enter into the Kingdom of God until they have been born again.

IOW the words Christ spoke to those living in the first century had NOTHING to do with the coming of Christ the second time. The reason Christ spoke to them in this manner is because the Kingdom of God that Christ had ushered in could not be physically seen because His Kingdom now in this age is a spiritual Kingdom of God in heaven. Man does not enter the Kingdom of God through physical flesh, even though man is both physical and spirit. The Kingdom of God now in this world is not seen with physical vision, for the Kingdom of God is within those of true faith in Christ.

We must question our doctrine and if it forces contradictions, accept the fact that our doctrine is NOT biblical!