When exactly do you become a Christian?

[GodsGrace]

@Hillsage

I realize you will not be agreeing with me.
And yet we both have CHRISTIAN under our avatar.
What do you make of this?

 

[Aunty Jane]

The paradigm, of course, is Saul of Tarsus being struck blind on the road to Damascus and hearing a voice from Heaven telling him to stop kicking against the pricks.

I did a bit of research on that statement some time ago, because of the way it is translated in some Bibles....
The word “pricks” is a weird choice of terminology when other translations say “goads”.

So what is the right word? Actually, both....because a goad was used to direct oxen used by the Jews in agriculture. With such large animals, the means to ‘persuade’ them in a certain direction was a goad or long pointed stick used to prod the animal, which caused them a bit of pain, but made them go in the right direction.

So the application was clear....Paul was “kicking against the goads” when he was persecuting the Christians.
Thankfully he stopped doing that after his encounter with Jesus on the road to Damascus.

 

[Aunty Jane]

So here are my replies:
You sound like a non-orthodox Christian....
maybe LDS.

These are interesting points that we should all consider....

There are many denominations which are considered “unorthodox” by those who follow Christendom’s basic teachings....who all identify as “Christians”.
It’s a bit like the practice of medicine....things once considered “orthodox” were replace by what was claimed to be superior to that old “quackery”. So what was once “orthodox” now became “unorthodox” medicine....but was it really superior?

The fact that medicine today is a money making machine that has no scruples when it comes to charging like wounded elephants for their services and prescription medicines...even though there are no “cures” in today’s medicine, only “treatments” designed to give symptom control, but making sure that “wellness” (a lessening of symptoms) is dependent on a lifetime commitment to their drugs. $$$$
Many are now returning to the old ways, as they work without a scroll of horrible side effects.
In our day, the same thing is happening.....people are not content to be spoon fed their religion and rituals...they want to know the truth amidst all that confusion.

Similar also are the terminologies used with the Bible itself as “Old Testament” and “New Testament”....the word “old” suggests that it has been superseded by the “new”....but nothing could be further from the truth.
”All Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for teaching”.....so we need the whole book in order to be instructed by its author.

We cannot understand what Jesus (as a Jew, using Jewish Scripture) was teaching his fellow Jews unless we read it through that lens.

So the above is for OSAS:
It doesn't exist in the bible...
not for the spirit, soul or body.

So many Scriptures tell us that we have to remain “faithful unto death” to inherit “the crown of life”, that no one has an excuse to believe that we don’t need effort to remain on the narrow road to life....a road that “few” will find. (Matt 7:13-14; Matt 24:13)

The NT teaches that we are to be baptized for the forgiveness of sins.
You're questioning it....maybe...not sure.
Jesus did not require baptism...
but we do.

Jesus set the pattern because there were two baptisms.....John’s baptism was for forgiveness of sins committed against the Law.....yet Jesus had no sin to be forgiven, which is why John hesitated.
Jesus’ baptism was to signal the beginning of his ministry as Messiah...a course that he knew would lead to his sacrificial death. It was a symbolic dying to his former life and a rising up to do the will of his Father and to redeem mankind.

Christian baptism contains elements of both because those baptized by John also had to be baptized again in the name of Jesus Christ, signalling a new life course for them as Christiansl.
Anyone who says we do not need to be baptized in water cannot be baptized with holy spirit because water baptism had to come first.

No. I don't believe I'm a God or a god.
LDSs do.

I investigated the Mormon faith when I was doing my own search for God but found the tenets so far removed from Scripture and a reliance on books that virtually replaced it, I saw no merit in that faith even though I admired the people.

Agreed.
We're all fruit inspectors.

We are in trouble if we don’t inspect the fruit before we eat it. If it’s contaminated, our worship becomes contaminated as well.
Those appointed to lead us are under obligation to remove any kind of contamination from those in the congregation who would cause division or who practice what God’s word condemns. (1 Cor 5:9-13)

We must be united in all ways, (1 Cor 1:10) unencumbered by cultural influences, or from any practices that originate from false religion. (2 Cor 6:14-18)

 

[GodsGrace]

It's not that, as far as I can tell. I think this is more about the need for certainty. Part of that is knowing whether one's "born-again" experience was the real deal.

I guess I should have asked what YOU think the real deal is as to knowing that one is born again.

This is what you had posted re the OP:

It's not that, as far as I can tell. I think this is more about the need for certainty. Part of that is knowing whether one's "born-again" experience was the real deal.

 

[Lambano]

I guess I should have asked what YOU think the real deal is as to knowing that one is born again.

Do you hear Ernie's question-behind-the-question, "How do I know if I'm really saved?"

That venerable Calvinist John MacArthur wrote a book on that, Saved Without a Doubt. It wasn't very reassuring. In that system, if you're not saved, you're probably not going to get saved, though it could be you're just not saved yet. But if you are one of the Elect, you won't fall away because God will keep you from doing the things that make one finally and irrevocably fall away. God is sovereign, yet Man is responsible. And even MacArthur himself said he didn't know how that works out.

(Since you mentioned OSAS and Calvinism.)

 

[quietthinker]

Is Jesus not the being that taught about the above?
Is He not the one that began His church and promised that the gates of hell would not prevail?
Are we not taught that in the last days many would fall from faith believing doctrines of demons?

What kind of question are you asking?
Jesus is God.
Where do YOU think He is?

Your reply in post #53 has no hint of him but rather a collection of what you are interested in.

 

[GodsGrace]

These are interesting points that we should all consider....

There are many denominations which are considered “unorthodox” by those who follow Christendom’s basic teachings....who all identify as “Christians”.
It’s a bit like the practice of medicine....things once considered “orthodox” were replace by what was claimed to be superior to that old “quackery”. So what was once “orthodox” now became “unorthodox” medicine....but was it really superior?

The fact that medicine today is a money making machine that has no scruples when it comes to charging like wounded elephants for their services and prescription medicines...even though there are no “cures” in today’s medicine, only “treatments” designed to give symptom control, but making sure that “wellness” (a lessening of symptoms) is dependent on a lifetime commitment to their drugs. $$$$
Many are now returning to the old ways, as they work without a scroll of horrible side effects.
In our day, the same thing is happening.....people are not content to be spoon fed their religion and rituals...they want to know the truth amidst all that confusion.

Similar also are the terminologies used with the Bible itself as “Old Testament” and “New Testament”....the word “old” suggests that it has been superseded by the “new”....but nothing could be further from the truth.
”All Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for teaching”.....so we need the whole book in order to be instructed by its author.

Of course there are teachings in the OT that pertain even till this day.
Those of the OT wrote down what they wanted to teach and what they wanted to remember...
both historically and also teachings pertaining to God.

We cannot understand what Jesus (as a Jew, using Jewish Scripture) was teaching his fellow Jews unless we read it through that lens.

Correct.
But do we do this anymore?
Many write their own ideas into scripture...
Ideas that would have been rejected.

So many Scriptures tell us that we have to remain “faithful unto death” to inherit “the crown of life”, that no one has an excuse to believe that we don’t need effort to remain on the narrow road to life....a road that “few” will find. (Matt 7:13-14; Matt 24:13)

Agreed.

Jesus set the pattern because there were two baptisms.....John’s baptism was for forgiveness of sins committed against the Law.....yet Jesus had no sin to be forgiven, which is why John hesitated.
Jesus’ baptism was to signal the beginning of his ministry as Messiah...a course that he knew would lead to his sacrificial death. It was a symbolic dying to his former life and a rising up to do the will of his Father and to redeem mankind.

Agreed. Jesus was baptized also to do everything correctly...to be righteous in all ways.
I'm not sure what you mean by the statement of Jesus' dying to His former life...
I think you just mean that it was the beginning of His ministry and He left His old life behind.

Christian baptism contains elements of both because those baptized by John also had to be baptized again in the name of Jesus Christ, signalling a new life course for them as Christiansl.
Anyone who says we do not need to be baptized in water cannot be baptized with holy spirit because water baptism had to come first.

Only one baptism is necessary.
Do you believe there are two baptisms...
one for the forgiveness of sins and one for receiving the Holy §Spirit? (both in water).

I investigated the Mormon faith when I was doing my own search for God but found the tenets so far removed from Scripture and a reliance on books that virtually replaced it, I saw no merit in that faith even though I admired the people.

Couldn't agree more.

We are in trouble if we don’t inspect the fruit before we eat it. If it’s contaminated, our worship becomes contaminated as well.
Those appointed to lead us are under obligation to remove any kind of contamination from those in the congregation who would cause division or who practice what God’s word condemns. (1 Cor 5:9-13)

I'd agree with you except I do want to say that some pastors make mistakes and some teachers make mistakes.
Those appointed to lead are held to a higher standard as per James 3:1 but many times they fail.
And, yes, of course I agree with 1 Cor 5:9-13
We're in the world but should not be a part of it - as one pastor explained this.
Also, I'd say that we should be a good example.
Matthew 5:14-16
We are the light.
We are the salt.

We must be united in all ways, (1 Cor 1:10) unencumbered by cultural influences, or from any practices that originate from false religion. (2 Cor 6:14-18)

Yes. But what are these false religions?
And herein lies the problem.

What's the difference between a false religion and just a different teaching?

 

[GodsGrace]

Do you hear Ernie's question-behind-the-question, "How do I know if I'm really saved?"

That venerable Calvinist John MacArthur wrote a book on that, Saved Without a Doubt. It wasn't very reassuring. In that system, if you're not saved, you're probably not going to get saved, though it could be you're just not saved yet. But if you are one of the Elect, you won't fall away because God will keep you from doing the things that make one finally and irrevocably fall away. God is sovereign, yet Man is responsible. And even MacArthur himself said he didn't know how that works out.

(Since you mentioned OSAS and Calvinism.)

I DID hear the question behind the question.
The OP brings up a few points.
But is the OP a reformed believer?

Reformed believers can never be certain that they are one of the chosen.

 

[GodsGrace]

Your reply in post #53 has no hint of him but rather a collection of what you are interested in.

Oh my.

Did my reply no. 53 state that I had some food to eat yesterday?
No.
Does that mean I had no food yesterday?

Come on quietthinker.
Address the post if you want to,,,,
but why change the subject?

You don't have to reply if you don't care to.

 

[Aunty Jane]

Concerning the dilemma of ERNIE I am truly concerned, and he has truly been absent. As for his question, which I had actually never even considered, until now? I am still very concerned. But, not so much for me anymore. I am actually more concerned now, for THE CHURCH

Why are you concerned for “THE CHURCH? ....who, or what is “the church” anyway?

God and his son have always taken care of their own spiritually, and as Jesus said...
John 6:44; 65....
“No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him . . . .“For this reason I have said to you, that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted him from the Father.” (NASB)

If that is the case, then all who are “drawn” by the Father, will also be what God calls a “Christian”.
Without God’s invitation, there is no salvation. On what then, basis are we acceptable to God?

At the end of the day, it doesn’t matter what we call ourselves....it’s what Jesus calls us that matters, as he is our appointed judge. When he arrives as judge with his angelic army, there will only be “sheep and goats” in the world.....not denominations.
You need not fear for “THE CHURCH” at all.....fear for yourselves in a world where nothing is as it appears, and the devil knows our weaknesses better than we know them ourselves.
Paul wrote about our day...
“For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only he who now restrains will do so until he is taken out of the way. Then that lawless one will be revealed whom the Lord will slay with the breath of His mouth and bring to an end by the appearance of His coming; that is, the one whose coming is in accord with the activity of Satan, with all power and signs and false wonders, and with all the deception of wickedness for those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth so as to be saved. For this reason God will send upon them a deluding influence so that they will believe what is false, in order that they all may be judged who did not believe the truth, but took pleasure in wickedness.” (2 Thess 2:7-12 NASB)

Carefully examine every teaching and pray to find the “faithful and wise slave” who is appointed by Jesus in these last days to feed his entire household their “food in due season”. (Matt 24:45)
He will never conform to what any of us want to believe....it is we who have to accept his truth when the majority do not. (Matt 7:13-14)

You are correct that “churchianity” is not genuine “Christianity”.....so who is teaching the truth in this 21st century when everything in the world is going “to Hell in a handbasket”...?...including its religions.

We are all being ‘separated’ as we speak....showing God who we really are.....getting ‘caught in the act of being ourselves’....hearing the truth but rejecting it as the Jews did...or listening to those who preach Christ’s message “in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations”...before “the end” comes. (Matt 24:14) We already know that the majority will reject it.

Unless God is inviting us into his spiritual family, we won’t recognize the truth when we hear it....not having eyes to see or ears to hear anything we don’t want to believe. (John 6:44; 65) Our hearts are talking to God even when we don’t speak. Our action speak louder.

God truly knows us in ways that we do not know ourselves, and so from his perspective, he is choosing citizens for his Kingdom by a process of elimination.....when his kingdom rules mankind, there will be no dissenters, or those who say “yes......but”.
Not a soul in God’s Kingdom will be a rebel...and that is what life in this world is all about....sorting the rebels from those who are willingly compliant to God’s will, even at the cost of their own, like Jesus was....(Luke 22:42) God’s will can then “be done, on earth as it is in heaven”.

 

[Aunty Jane]

Jesus was baptized also to do everything correctly...to be righteous in all ways.
I'm not sure what you mean by the statement of Jesus' dying to His former life...
I think you just mean that it was the beginning of His ministry and He left His old life behind.

Yes...the beginning of a new course in life.
Baptism was not a Jewish practice...not a ritual washing like the Mikva.
Jesus’ baptism was a presenting of himself to do the will of his Father, surrendering his own will and sticking to this difficult course that he knew would end with his death.
He was baptized with water first, and then came the baptism with Holy Spirit. You can’t have one without the other.

The significance of water baptism is made a mockery of by the churches who baptize infants, as if there is some magic charm in sprinkling water on a baby. There is no proxy arrangement as each one must make a personal decision to follow Christ, once they are of accountable age......minor children are judged by their parent’s relationship with God (even if only one is a Christian. 1 Cor 7:14)

Only one baptism is necessary.
Do you believe there are two baptisms...
one for the forgiveness of sins and one for receiving the Holy §Spirit? (both in water).

There are still two baptisms now, as the first one is made in full knowledge of what it means to be a Christian, and comes with the forgiveness of sins (with the blood Jesus shed on our behalf) and a presenting of ourselves according to that knowledge, and the making of a commitment to God as a footstep follower of his precious son.
Only in that condition can the second baptism with Holy Spirit take place.
The first one is about our choice to serve God, and the second is about God’s choice as to where we serve him.....I do not believe that all Christians are going to heaven...only those baptized with the spirit will enter heaven as “born again” after their resurrection to spirit life in heaven.

Earth was never supposed to be a training ground for heaven......spirit life in heaven was not even mentioned to Adam, who threw away the blessed life that humans were meant to enjoy on earth.
That didn’t mean that God changed his mind about who was going to live here. He carefully and lovingly prepared this earth for human life in beautiful surroundings and with an abundance of everything for their enjoyment...even the other creatures who were made to share life here with us, would add to our enjoyment.

Isaiah’s prophesies give us a glimpse of the life to come....(Isa 65:16-25)

Those appointed to lead are held to a higher standard as per James 3:1 but many times they fail.
And, yes, of course I agree with 1 Cor 5:9-13
We're in the world but should not be a part of it - as one pastor explained this.
Also, I'd say that we should be a good example.

Yes, those who take the lead are held to a much higher standard and accountability as was demonstrated even in Jesus’ day with the Pharisees....because they had led the people into error, Jesus consigned them to “Gehenna”....a place of no return. Religious leaders even today are held to that same standard.

Yes. But what are these false religions?
And herein lies the problem.

What's the difference between a false religion and just a different teaching?

All false religion in the Bible is grouped into one entity, called in Revelation, “Babylon the great” or “the greater Babylon” (Rev 17:3-6; Rev 18:4-5)....so what is the Babylon connection?

Why is this entity pictured as a harlot, and the mother of all the other harlots? This is satan’s global Religious empire.......it is global because it embraces all the false religious concepts that originated in ancient Babylon.

As you might recall, Babylon was the place where Nimrod raised up rebellion again after the flood. He and his cronies did not want to spread abroad in the earth as God had instructed them, because they wanted to stay where they were and make a “celebrated name” for themselves and to build cities......one with a tower with its top in the heavens to their own glory......but God put a stop to that by confusing their language so that they left off building that tower (Gen 11:1-9).....but their subsequent scattering after that did not make their grandiose ideas go away however......because every group who understood one another, settled in a different place, but took their basic ideas with them. Which explains why the same themes are found in all false worship, no matter where they lived on earth, in what culture they formed, or what they called themselves.

A flood legend is known in almost every culture on earth, and the same basic elements of false worship are present in their beliefs and practices....these include the worship of multiple gods...belief in immediate life after death...and a hell of eternal torture in flames, contrasted with a heaven of eternal bliss.

None of these concepts were found in the Jewish faith among those whom God rescued from Egyptian slavery, giving them his written laws and instruction about acceptable worship.
None are found in Jewish Scripture, but after many centuries of apostasy, they too succumbed to many of these false teachings....especially about death and the afterlife.

So if the belief system we choose has any or all of those concepts lingering....it is the wrong religion.....
”Babylon the great” is an affront to the true God, Yahweh and his worship. Accepting the lies as truth doesn’t mean arguing about details of the same lie....it is that we accepted the lie as truth in the first place....can you see the difference?

When Israel fell to the worship of false gods, Yahweh accused them of “adultery”...spiritual adultery. So all false worship elicits the same response from him to this day. “Babylon the great” is a prostitute....in bed with the world that Jesus told us to be “no part” of. (John 18:36; James 4:4)

False worship has one author....and so does true worship....and never the twain shall meet. If it does, and our beliefs are nothing more than glossed over Babylonian concepts, then our worship of God is futile. (2 Cor 6:14-18; Rev 18:4-5)

 

[quietthinker]

Oh my.

Did my reply no. 53 state that I had some food to eat yesterday?
No.
Does that mean I had no food yesterday?

Come on quietthinker.
Address the post if you want to,,,,
but why change the subject?

You don't have to reply if you don't care to.

That's how it's done GG. All manner of religious talk, expressions and important sounding stuff is substituted for a knowledge of HIM.
It all amounts to being no more attracted to jelly beans than to Jesus.....and all this is done with good intentions.

 

[GodsGrace]

That's how it's done GG. All manner of religious talk, expressions and important sounding stuff is substituted for a knowledge of HIM.
It all amounts to being no more attracted to jelly beans than to Jesus.....and all this is done with good intentions.

No comment.

Why are you on this Forum?
Just go to your church and be happy with the fellowship you receive there.

And you're in the apologetics sub-forum.
Usually it's to discuss apologetics and related topics.

 

[walter]

Think about it how does someone start to get on the road to life? In my opinion it all starts with reading what Jesus has to say in the four Gospels then little by little start listening to his words and do what he says to do.

I am going to reread the Bible again, but first I am going to read the gospels so many times I have Jesus words memorized, in this way I can listen to Jesus words and put all his words into practice, little by little I can change into a better person following the words of Christ Jesus.



Reply

 

[Hillsage]

We just might be on the same page.
Unfortunately I don't go through an entire thread so sometimes it takes a couple of posts...

I try to encourage one page texts for that reason. People can't eat the elephant. And my cognitive shortcomings really get lost when you write twice to answer one.

As far as I'm concerned, being saved is very simple:
1. Believe in God.
2. Obey Him.

I believed in God, but I accepted JESUS as my savior and lord. And when I did I FELT born again. I never doubted that experience again. But the only thing saved (born again) that night, was my spirit. And though HE WAS/IS LORD, my soul (mind, will, intellect) had a long way to go to be making HIM MY Lord. Because every time we sin our actions deny our confession. When He says don't sin and we do....just makes us saying He IS my Lord....an oxymoron.

That's being SAVED.
But it does not mean one is CHRISTIAN.

That's a different story.
There is no definition for being a Christian in the bible.
The definition was worked out over a span of time.

41 years after the church was started??? I'm not persuaded.

The definition of a Christian would be that one has to accept one of the creeds.
They all define what Christians are supposed to believe....at different times of revelation.

There were no creeds in 41AD, 61AD, 62AD when the word "christian" was mentioned 3 times in ACTS. And it wasn't capitalized in the Greek. Capitalization makes us think it is a noun and therefore speaks of a person. But it's not. It is a noun which defines a verb and an adverb experience.

For instance...it was known from the beginning that Jesus was the Son of God and that He was divine.
But how?

How? Angels told Mary and Joseph. And they didn't tell anyone because an angel told them to get out of Israel and go to Egypt until it was safe to come back.

It took time to work this out and we ended up with the Trinity-----which is in the bible, both OT and NT, but its explanation
was another matter.

It took 400 years!!!! And I think that was because no one was being spirit led in the church of Rome. They were all head-led Greek and Latin theologians. The NT was written in koine Greek which was spoken from 400 BC to 450 AD, Then the Roman Catholics made mistakes translating it into the Latin in about 400 AD, then they messed up again translating the Latin back into the Greek during the Renaissance. (1400-1700 AD). I don't think most of what went on was God's doing as 'the church' thinks. And I think your "small c" began before the apostles were dead. The apostles wrote about it while alive....and under the inspiration of the spirit of christ in them...just like the prophets of the OT.

1PE 1:9 Receiving the END of your faith, even the salvation of your SOULS. The beginning of your faith saved your spirit
10 Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you: 11 Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them....

So...does being Christian actually mean anything...or can we just believe what we want to and still be defined as being Christian?

It means more to me now, in the last few weeks, than it has for the last 53 years as a born again, water baptized, Holy Spirit baptized unknown tongue praying believer. IOW I am not an LDS. Have never cracked their bible, other than to 'fan' through it and say: "When I get 'this book' figured out, I'll look at yours."

LOL
I didn't ask you to elaborate because my point was that we should agree on these topics,,,
instead we don't.

I might go back and post something on each one...
but will we agree?

No we don't, welcome to 'CHURCHIANITY. Yeah, lots to discuss there for sure. But throw one out at a time.

DITTO !
I also am very concerned for the church (small c).

And I don't know of a solution.

I DO! His name is JESUS.

 

[Behold]

Jesus is the pivotal centre of the entire Universe.

Colossians 1:16

 

[Behold]

God is sovereign, yet Man is responsible. And even MacArthur himself said he didn't know how that works out.

God is not in control of a person's free will.
If He was, then there would not be anyone doing anything evil.......noone would be choosing to lie, cheat, steal, murder, hate, .....or reject Christ.

 

[Hillsage]

@Hillsage

I realize you will not be agreeing with me.
And yet we both have CHRISTIAN under our avatar.
What do you make of this?

Boy I am way behind here. And you are pointing out just how long I believed differently.
BUT the FORUM choices probably didn't give me "The WAY" as an option.

ACT 9:2 and asked for letters from him to the synagogues at Damascus, so that if he found any belonging to the Way, both men and women, he might bring them bound to Jerusalem.

ACT 19:9 But when some were becoming hardened and disobedient, speaking evil of the Way before the people, he withdrew from them and took away the disciples, reasoning daily in the school of Tyrannus.

ACT 19:23 About that time there occurred no small disturbance concerning the Way.

Dang, only capitalized 3 times in 3 translations NAS NKJ NIV for no biblical reason that I see. I'm quitting.....for tonight.

 

[GodsGrace]

²

I try to encourage one page texts for that reason. People can't eat the elephant. And my cognitive shortcomings really get lost when you write twice to answer one.

LOL

I believed in God, but I accepted JESUS as my savior and lord. And when I did I FELT born again. I never doubted that experience again. But the only thing saved (born again) that night, was my spirit. And though HE WAS/IS LORD, my soul (mind, will, intellect) had a long way to go to be making HIM MY Lord. Because every time we sin our actions deny our confession. When He says don't sin and we do....just makes us saying He IS my Lord....an oxymoron.

Actually, said like that, I agree.
Because we are saved first and our spirit becomes alive.....
OR we gain the spirit quality of our being .... I can live with either understanding.

THEN our spirit begins to have an effect on our soul, which is what you stated, mind, will and emotion and intellect (although intellect might be attributed to the actual grey matter of our brain, not sure about this).

I DO believe Jesus is our Lord even when we sin.
We sin many times in one day - we'd have to get to the definition of sin....
If we understand sin to be anything that does not please God..we'd have to be honest and say that this is done a lot.
If we understand sin to be the breaking of the 10 commandments (as some do) then we can say we don't sin. (much).

41 years after the church was started??? I'm not persuaded.

Who said anything about 41 years??

There were no creeds in 41AD, 61AD, 62AD when the word "christian" was mentioned 3 times in ACTS. And it wasn't capitalized in the Greek. Capitalization makes us think it is a noun and therefore speaks of a person. But it's not. It is a noun which defines a verb and an adverb experience.

Why do we make everything so complicated?
The first creed is found in
1 Corinthians 15:3-4
3 For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures,
4 and that He was buried, and that He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures,

Creed means a declaration of what one believes.
If you capitalize it, it means a specific creed.
If one considers themselves to be Christian...they are SUPPOSED to believe in the creeds of the Christian church.

How? Angels told Mary and Joseph. And they didn't tell anyone because an angel told them to get out of Israel and go to Egypt until it was safe to come back.

Please see
Luke 1:35
35 The angel answered and said to her, "The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; and for that reason the holy Child shall be called the Son of God.

Of course you know the above verse..so apparently you don't agree with it.
I'd ask who is the father of Jesus according to Luke 1:35.

It took 400 years!!!! And I think that was because no one was being spirit led in the church of Rome. They were all head-led Greek and Latin theologians. The NT was written in koine Greek which was spoken from 400 BC to 450 AD, Then the Roman Catholics made mistakes translating it into the Latin in about 400 AD, then they messed up again translating the Latin back into the Greek during the Renaissance. (1400-1700 AD).

So are you saying that we have scripture that is corrupted?

And what took 400 years??
The Apostles believed Jesus was divine and so did those the Apostles taught.
What took some time to understand was HOW a person could be explained as being both divine and human.
THIS is what took some time.
Jesus' divinity was never questioned.

I don't think most of what went on was God's doing as 'the church' thinks. And I think your "small c" began before the apostles were dead. The apostles wrote about it while alive....and under the inspiration of the spirit of christ in them...just like the prophets of the OT.

Yes sir.
Church with a small c was started before the Apostles were dead.

1PE 1:9 Receiving the END of your faith, even the salvation of your SOULS. The beginning of your faith saved your spirit
10 Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you: 11 Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them....

Jesus did say to not fear those that could kill the body but those that could kill the soul.
I'm not at all certain of how you understand 1 Peter 1:9-111

It means more to me now, in the last few weeks, than it has for the last 53 years as a born again, water baptized, Holy Spirit baptized unknown tongue praying believer. IOW I am not an LDS. Have never cracked their bible, other than to 'fan' through it and say: "When I get 'this book' figured out, I'll look at yours."

This is good to hear.

No we don't, welcome to 'CHURCHIANITY. Yeah, lots to discuss there for sure. But throw one out at a time.

I DO! His name is JESUS.

The solution is Jesus?
Well then dear friend, He must have failed because I see that we Christians do not agree on everything that was taught by Jesus.

Your solution fails.

 

[GodsGrace]

Boy I am way behind here. And you are pointing out just how long I believed differently.
BUT the FORUM choices probably didn't give me "The WAY" as an option.

ACT 9:2 and asked for letters from him to the synagogues at Damascus, so that if he found any belonging to the Way, both men and women, he might bring them bound to Jerusalem.

ACT 19:9 But when some were becoming hardened and disobedient, speaking evil of the Way before the people, he withdrew from them and took away the disciples, reasoning daily in the school of Tyrannus.

ACT 19:23 About that time there occurred no small disturbance concerning the Way.

Dang, only capitalized 3 times in 3 translations NAS NKJ NIV for no biblical reason that I see. I'm quitting.....for tonight.

What is The Way?
What is the difference between The Way and Christianity?