Amil interpretation of 2 Peter 3:10-12 vs Genesis 9:15

[Spiritual Israelite]

Did God "Literally Destroy Sodom and Gomorrah" by fire and brimstone, or was that just a fairy tale found in God's Holy Words?

Luke 17:29-÷0KJV
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

Good question. Based on what he says about our understanding of what will happen when Jesus returns, he must either think that God didn't literally destroy Sodom and Gomorrah with fire or He thinks God did so, but thinks it was not right for Him to do so since it involved the burning up of infants and children and animals.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

2 Pet 10 10 But the day of the Lord will come like a thief. The heavens will disappear with a roar; the elements will be destroyed by fire, and the earth and everything done in it will be laid bare.
11 Since everything will be destroyed in this way, what kind of people ought you to be? You ought to live holy and godly lives 12 as you look forward to the day of God and speed its coming. That day will bring about the destruction of the heavens by fire, and the elements will melt in the heat. 13 But in keeping with his promise we are looking forward to a new heaven and a new earth, where righteousness dwells.

This does seem to be a problem for Premills like myself. When we speak of the "destruction of the heavens," it sounds like the entire universe is on fire, which, of course, is not possible unless the entire universe is destroyed to make way for a completely new creation of the universe. The universe does not burn. Not even a sun exploding destroys the entire universe. The "heavens" appears to be a reference to the *sky* within the domain of earth.

The 1st creation is the one the Bible says will remain. It does say there will be a new heavens and a new earth, but at the same time we are told that the earth is forever. We're told that several times in the Scriptures. It's talking about the *present earth* and not some future new earth.

So, God has no intention of re-creating the universe. He just is going to make the present one new, or eternal. In its current form it is not eternal--it is heading towards extinction. But God said He would make the heavens and the earth "new." By that I think He is saying He will make it eternal, or change its form.

If God is not going to completely annihilate the current heavens and earth what does Peter mean by saying the heavens will be "destroyed?" God doesn't have to actually "destroy" the heavens and the earth to make way for a new one. He could simply make one disappear and the new one appear. But the concept of "destruction" is employed to show a judgment, and that is, I think, the point.

I think Peter is looking at a global event in terms of local judgments throughout the world. When an enemy burns down a village and the fields, the fire rises high into the sky, or heavens, and the smoke turns the sun dark. The moon looks like blood. And the result is that all of the works of wicked men are destroyed in a short period of time, exposing them as cursed, ungodly people.

Keep in mind that Peter does not appear to be talking about the annihilation of everything. If the heavens "disappaear" the elements do not melt! Once the heavens disappear there is no longer any earth or material to burn! Therefore, I think Peter is speaking in terms of the destruction of fire such as he saw in his own time, with great fires rising to consume the oxygen in the heavens, and with the heat getting so hot that metal melts.

The idea has to do with God destroying the works of wicked men, who do not deserve to have their works last. It is an exposing of how God views all that they've done on earth. My view only....

I disagree with what you're saying here, but even with what you are describing, how could any mortals survive that? There is no indication of any unbelievers surviving that, right?

Paul wrote about the same event here...

1 Thessalonians 5:2 For you yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night. 3 For when they say, “Peace and safety!” then sudden destruction comes upon them, as labor pains upon a pregnant woman. And they shall not escape. 4 But you, brethren, are not in darkness, so that this Day should overtake you as a thief.

Notice how Paul, like Peter, talked about the day of the Lord coming as a thief in the night and then saying that "sudden destruction" would come upon those in spiritual darkness and then pointing out that "they shall not escape". He doesn't indicate that any of them will escape His wrath and the destruction He will bring when He comes. That fits with what Peter described.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I'm not arguing that God does not destroy the lost. I'm arguing that He doesn't need to engulf the entire planet in literal fire in order to do so.

Aren't there lost people on the entire planet? How else would God accomplish that? How exactly do you think Jesus will destroy His enemies when He comes if not by fire?

It contradicts what He said and meant in Genesis 9:15. Even if I took Revelation 20:9 to be meaning in the end of this age the same way you and other Amils do, I still wouldn't interpret 2 Peter 3:10-12 in the same manner some Amils do since it contradicts what God said and meant in Genesis 9:15.

And it's not like the examples I used in the OP don't prove that it is million times worse to be burned to death as opposed to being drowned to death. Therefore, if God is not going to ever drown all flesh ever again, He certainly isn't going to do something a million times worse, burn them to death instead. Which would also obviously mean, there goes the entire animal kingdom then. No way for them to survive that if the entire planet is literally engulfed in flames at the time.

One point of the OP is this. Sometimes all we need to do is use a little common sense rather than allowing our doctrines to be placed above common sense. Common sense says, if God is not ever again going to destroy all flesh via a flood like He did during Noah's day, He certainly isn't going to do something even more profound, engulf the entire planet in flames and destroy all flesh in that manner this time around instead.

You think man's fallible "common sense" is more important than spiritual discernment from the Holy Spirit for understanding scripture. That says it all about you. You need to completely change your approach to interpreting scripture if you want to know the truth about these things.

1 Corinthians 2:12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might know the things that have been freely given to us by God. 13 These things we also speak, not in words which man’s wisdom teaches but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual. 14 But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

I would relate "common sense" to what Paul called "man's wisdom" and he indicated that the things he and the other NT authors like Peter spoke were "not in words which man's wisdom teaches but which the Holy Spirit teaches" and that the natural man using man's wisdom sees the things that Paul and other Bible authors taught as foolishness. So, stop interpreting scripture like the natural man with your fallible common sense and start relying on the Holy Spirit instead.

 

[Truth7t7]

Kol eretz and ha eretz (translated as whole earth, the earth) have a much more localized and grounded meaning in Hebrew. Every time kol eretzis is used in Genesis, it is speaking of a limited area.

I Strongly Disagree

Very clear scripture was posted that shows the entire earth under the heavens was flooded, 15 cubits avove the mountains, every living creature upon the dry earth that had breath "Died"

I have no desire to further discuss the issue, it's all yours

Jesus Is The Lord

 

[Truth7t7]

Good question. Based on what he says about our understanding of what will happen when Jesus returns, he must either think that God didn't literally destroy Sodom and Gomorrah with fire or He thinks God did so, but thinks it was not right for Him to do so since it involved the burning up of infants and children and animals.

The posters entire goal and desire is to desperately try to find a 1,000 year millennial kingdom on this earth, and we both know it doesn't exist in scripture

 

[Randy Kluth]

I disagree with what you're saying here, but even with what you are describing, how could any mortals survive that? There is no indication of any unbelievers surviving that, right?

I understand your position. Obviously, being a Premill I think these are world-wide fires, caused by a nuclear conflagration. No, I don't think everyone dies. But those who come under judgment certainly meet their Maker.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I understand your position. Obviously, being a Premill I think these are world-wide fires, caused by a nuclear conflagration. No, I don't think everyone dies. But those who come under judgment certainly meet their Maker.

Where is there any indication of that at all in the text?

2 Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up. 11 Therefore, since all these things will be dissolved, what manner of persons ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness, 12 looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be dissolved, being on fire, and the elements will melt with fervent heat?

This is clearly a description of God's wrath. When you look at 1 Thessalonians 5:2-3 Paul describes the same event as "sudden destruction" that comes against those in spiritual darkness from which "they shall not escape". So, are you saying you think God will take out His wrath on "those who come under judgment" by using nukes? Surely, He is capable of sending down fire supernaturally on His own without the need for any earthly means to do so, right? Like He did when He sent fire down upon Sodom and Gomorrah. I don't find it reasonable to think that 2 Peter 3:10-12 is describing anything but fire that comes down from Jesus/God Himself.

You say you "don't think everyone dies". What do you mean by that? I'm sure we agree that believers will all be changed at that point to put on bodily immortality, so, obviously, we won't die, but what about everyone else? What would allow any unbeliever to survive? Paul wrote this...

2 Thessalonians 1:7 and to give you who are troubled rest with us when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels, 8 in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Who among "those who do not know God, and...those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ" do you think will survive the return of Christ and why? Paul gave no indication at all of any of them surviving and 1 Thess 5:2-3 and 2 Peter 3:10-12 certainly give no indication of that.

 

[Truth7t7]

I understand your position. Obviously, being a Premill I think these are world-wide fires, caused by a nuclear conflagration. No, I don't think everyone dies. But those who come under judgment certainly meet their Maker.

The scripture below proves your thinking to be "Wrong"

Jesus Christ Returns In Fire And Final Judgement, Dissolving This Existing Earth By Fire, Immediately After The Tribulation

This Existing Heaven And Earth Will Be (Replaced) By The New Heaven, Earth, Jerusalem, A New Creation, At The Return Of Jesus Christ

(Behold, I Make All Things New)

2 Peter 3:10-13KJV
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

Revelation 21:1-5KJV
1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

Matthew 24:29-30KJV
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

1 Corinthians 3:13KJV
13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

Luke 17:29-30KJV
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

2 Thessalonians 1:7-9KJV
7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

Malachi 3:2KJV
2 But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap:

Psalm 46:6KJV
6 The heathen raged, the kingdoms were moved: he uttered his voice, the earth melted.

Psalm 50:3KJV
3 Our God shall come, and shall not keep silence: a fire shall devour before him, and it shall be very tempestuous round about him.

Psalm 97:5KJV
5 The hills melted like wax at the presence of the Lord, at the presence of the Lord of the whole earth.

Isaiah 66:15KJV
15 For, behold, the Lord will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire.

Zechariah 14:12KJV
12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the Lord will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.

Nahum 1:5-6KJV
5 The mountains quake at him, and the hills melt, and the earth is burned at his presence, yea, the world, and all that dwell therein.
6 Who can stand before his indignation? and who can abide in the fierceness of his anger? his fury is poured out like fire, and the rocks are thrown down by him.

Revelation 20:9KJV
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

 

[Truth7t7]

Who among "those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ" do you think will survive the return of Christ and why? Paul gave no indication at all of any of them surviving and 1 Thess 5:2-3 and 2 Peter 3:10-12 certainly give no indication of that.

"Destroyed Them All"

Luke 17:29-30KJV
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

"Destroyed Them All"

Luke 17:29-30KJV
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

Right, and that fits with Jesus also saying that heaven and earth will pass away at that time.

Matthew 24:35 Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will by no means pass away. 36 “But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, but My Father only. 37 But as the days of Noah were, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. 38 For as in the days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, 39 and did not know until the flood came and took them all away, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be.

Jesus taught that heaven and earth will pass away unexpectedly just like Peter did in 2 Peter 3:10-12.

 

[Earburner]

Let me be clear here. By Amil I'm not meaning every single Amil. I'm only meaning Amils falsely teaching these things, that God is literally going to engulf the entire planet in fire the same same way He literally engulfed the entire planet in water during Noah's flood.

I fully agree with Amil about the timing of 2 Peter 3:10-12 regardless that I'm Premil . I disagree with certain Amils that the entire planet is going to be literally engulfed in flames, therefore, burning to death infants, children, adults, the entire animal kingdom, etc.

And no, I'm not interested in hearing these Amils possibly argue that He is going to spare infants and children though, when these Amils know good and well He never spared them during Noah's flood. And since it is absurd that He would burn to death infants and children to begin with, let alone the entire animal kingdom, this tells any reasonable person He's not going to literally set the entire planet on fire to begin with.

Genesis 9:13 I do set my bow in the cloud, and it shall be for a token of a covenant between me and the earth.
14 And it shall come to pass, when I bring a cloud over the earth, that the bow shall be seen in the cloud:
15 And I will remember my covenant, which is between me and you and every living creature of all flesh; and the waters shall no more become a flood to destroy all flesh.
16 And the bow shall be in the cloud; and I will look upon it, that I may remember the everlasting covenant between God and every living creature of all flesh that is upon the earth.
17 And God said unto Noah, This is the token of the covenant, which I have established between me and all flesh that is upon the earth.

Unlike certain Amils in this case, I believe what God said here. I do not think God is a liar here, but apparently they do.

If God plainly said that He is never going to do this ever again--- and the waters shall no more become a flood to destroy all flesh. We are to believe He has found a loophole, that He is going to do something a million times more profound, burn all flesh to death this time around?

Picture being on a small ship at sea that has caught on fire and that there is no way to put it out, that it is raging fiercer by the minute. What fate do you assume one might choose per that scenario? Staying aboard the ship risking being burned to death eventually? Or jumping overboard risking being drowned to death eventually?

Surely these Amils have heard of cases where people were trapped in buildings numerous stories up that have caught on fire. And that some of them literally jumped out of windows to their death below rather than choosing to be burned to death instead. Clearly, being burned to death is one of the most cruelest ways to die, otherwise, why would anyone jump out of a window to their death below instead of being burned to death? They are going to die either way, regardless.

These Amils seriously need to repent of not believing God when He said what He said in verse 15 above, just so that they can make their Amil view supposedly work. No habitable planet = no millennium can follow, right? Yet, once again, if He's never going to do that ever again, He certainly isn't going to do something a million times more profound instead.

In my case, Premil has nothing to do with why I initially reject the Amil literal interpretation of 2 Peter 3:10-12. I reject it because I have better common sense than these certain Amils do in this case, since I know full well, if God is never going to bring a flood upon the earth to destroy all flesh, He certainly isn't going to do something even more profound, burn all flesh to death via the entire planet being literally engulfed in flames the way the entire planet was literally engulfed in water during Noah's day.

Mat. 10
[34] Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace [on earth], but a sword.
[35] For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.
[36] And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.
[37] He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.
[38] And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.

 

[Earburner]

Did God "Literally Destroy Sodom and Gomorrah" by fire and brimstone, or was that just a fairy tale found in God's Holy Words?

Luke 17:29-÷0KJV
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

Hmm....what is that said about two or more witnesses, who give witness of a situation/event, shall therefore be established as a fact? Mat. 18:16.

In Gen. 19:27-28 you will find that Abraham was also a witness to that factual event of total destruction of Sodom and Gamorrah.
[27] And Abraham gat up early in the morning to the place where he stood before the LORD:
[28] And he looked toward Sodom and Gomorrah, and toward all the land of the plain, and beheld, and, lo, the smoke of the country went up as the smoke of a furnace.

 

[WPM]

Per my view of things, since none of the following, meaning what I submitted per Luke 19 below, can possibly be meaning after the time of the great white throne judgment, it then requires there has to be a habitable earth still existing in order to fulfill these things post Christ's bodily return in the end of this age, yet prior to the GWTJ, regardless what it might look like when these things are fulfilled. An example below. and I'm sure I can find more. Yet this should be sufficient to prove the point I'm attempting to make.

Luke 19:12 He said therefore, A certain nobleman went into a far country to receive for himself a kingdom, and to return

Luke 19:15 And it came to pass, that when he was returned, having received the kingdom, then he commanded these servants to be called unto him, to whom he had given the money, that he might know how much every man had gained by trading.

Luke 19:27 But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.


Verse 27 alone proves this is meaning before not after the time of the GWTJ. Verse 15 alone proves these things are happening on the earth after He has returned. After all, verse 12 plainly records that He is to return and that verse 15 plainly records that He has returned. Has returned to where? The moon? Mars? Pluto? How about the earth? Would that be as far fetched as Him returning to the moon or some other planet? I don't think so. No reasonable person could possibly think it is far fetched that it is the earth He has returned to per verse 15. Therefore, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that the entire planet is not engulfed in flames at the time.

It is regenerated by fire. It cleanses the curse. It does not evaporate the universe. Hello! That is the most common position within Amil. You know that. You have been told that enough times. But you choose to misrepresent Amil at every turn.

Scripture tells us that we are coming back to earth when Jesus comes. Job prophesied that the Lord would stand on this earth at the end of the age. Job 19:25-26: “For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth: And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God.”

There is no reason to imagine that Job was thinking about any other earth. There is no other earth than this present one that he would have been familiar with.

But the earth will not be in its current corrupt form. Scripture tells us: it will be a regenerated earth. Malachi 4:1-3, I Corinthians 15:50, 2 Peter 3 show a fiery regeneration taking place when Jesus appears. It will be an earth totally purged of all corruption. The new heavens and a new earth (in whatever form God chooses) will appear at the coming of Christ. It will involve (at very least) the burning up of the crust of our current earth. This current earth will be totally changed / regenerated – making it a new curse-free environment. The earth will be restored to its previous pristine condition. These passages would sway me towards the position that this earth will remain forever – only in a new condition.

Psalm 10:30 says, “The righteous shall never be removed: but the wicked shall not inhabit the earth.”

What earth is the Psalmist talking about? An impending earth that only the righteous can inherit. The wicked are not qualified to inherit the new glorified earth and the perfect age to come. That is because one needs to be glorified to inherit a glorified environment.

Psalm 25:12-13 says: “What man is he that feareth the LORD? him shall he teach in the way that he shall choose. His soul shall dwell at ease; and his seed shall inherit the earth.”

The glorified saints are said to inherit the earth. This is assuredly talking about a new glorified earth, not this current corrupt arrangement that they have just departed. Their inheritance is not another period of corruption, rebellion and despair. They have just escaped that. The promised earth in view is actually depicted as a reward for the faithful. It cannot therefore be shared with the wicked.

Psalm 37:9-11 says, “For evildoers shall be cut off: but those that wait upon the LORD, they shall inherit the earth. For yet a little while, and the wicked shall not be: yea, thou shalt diligently consider his place, and it shall not be. But the meek shall inherit the earth; and shall delight themselves in the abundance of peace.”

This is a truth that is repeated clearly and unambiguously throughout both Testaments.

Psalm 37:22 says, “For such as be blessed of him shall inherit the earth; and they that be cursed of him shall be cut off.”

Psalm 37:28-36 continues, “For the LORD loveth judgment, and forsaketh not his saints; they are preserved for ever: but the seed of the wicked shall be cut off. The righteous shall inherit the land, and dwell therein for ever ... Wait on the LORD, and keep his way, and he shall exalt thee to inherit the land: when the wicked are cut off, thou shalt see it.”

Here, “evildoers” and “the wicked” are synonymous titles that refer to the unrighteous whereas the designations “those that wait upon the LORD,” “the meek” and “His saints” refer to the righteous.

Christ confirmed this in Matthew 5:5 saying, “Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.”

The meek alone possess the new earth – those that have been redeemed by His precious blood. The meek are the glorified believers. They are the antithesis of the wicked. There are only ever 2 peoples. The meek alone possess the new earth - those that have been redeemed by His precious blood.

Jesus is very clear in his teaching. He fully knows the importance of words. Here He talks about this current earth and promises that we will one day inherit it. God keeps His Word. He does not break His promise. The reason this will be fulfilled is because the world will last forever, albeit in a perfected condition.

It does not make sense to teach that this earth will be completely annihilated and replaced by an entirely separate new earth. That would contradict multiple Scriptures which indicate that the earth will last forever.

Another strong reason to believe that this current earth will be regenerated is the fact that different Old Testament Scriptures tell us that this earth will last forever. These passages would suggest the continuation of this earth in some form.

Ecclesiastes 1:4 says, “the earth abideth forever.”

Psalm 78:69 says, “the earth which he hath established forever.”

Psalm 93:1b says, “The world also is established, that it cannot be moved.”

Psalm 96:10 says, “the world also shall be established that it shall not be moved.”

Psalm 104:5 says, “Who laid the foundations of the earth, that it should not be removed forever.”

This literally means “So that it will not totter forever and ever." The word totter means, to refrain from moving out of place.

 

[WPM]

I agree, it totally alters the meaning of scripture. The whole earth seems badly translated.

What are the Hebrew and Greek words for the whole "earth" in the OT and the NT?

 

[WPM]

Kol eretz and ha eretz (translated as whole earth, the earth) have a much more localized and grounded meaning in Hebrew. Every time kol eretzis is used in Genesis, it is speaking of a limited area. Eretz itself is actually better translated as soil or ground. (see Robert Alter's translation of Genesis)

When God creates ha shamayim and ha eretz in Genesis 1, the text is not talking about "planet earth" and "space", it is quite literally saying that God created everything between the ground and the skies. It presupposes that everything else that exists was created by God as well (because He is the only creator), but for the sake of men and women, to whom the story is being written, it limits the scope of its descriptions to the things that we are directly familiar with that is the ground and the sky. In the same vein there is no mention of when or where angelic beings or the spirit realm were created, because they don't fall within the purvey or purpose of the story, they're simply presupposed to have been created by God, without any more details given.

When Genesis says that all the earth was covered, including the mountains, the scope of the language is by definition limited and local. Saying in English that all the soil was covered in water is very different from saying the whole earth was covered in water.

What are the Hebrew and Greek words for the whole "earth" in the OT and the NT?

 

[WPM]

Kol eretz and ha eretz (translated as whole earth, the earth) have a much more localized and grounded meaning in Hebrew. Every time kol eretzis is used in Genesis, it is speaking of a limited area. Eretz itself is actually better translated as soil or ground. (see Robert Alter's translation of Genesis)

When God creates ha shamayim and ha eretz in Genesis 1, the text is not talking about "planet earth" and "space", it is quite literally saying that God created everything between the ground and the skies. It presupposes that everything else that exists was created by God as well (because He is the only creator), but for the sake of men and women, to whom the story is being written, it limits the scope of its descriptions to the things that we are directly familiar with that is the ground and the sky. In the same vein there is no mention of when or where angelic beings or the spirit realm were created, because they don't fall within the purvey or purpose of the story, they're simply presupposed to have been created by God, without any more details given.

When Genesis says that all the earth was covered, including the mountains, the scope of the language is by definition limited and local. Saying in English that all the soil was covered in water is very different from saying the whole earth was covered in water.

If this was just a mere localized flood then God has broken his covenant numerous since the beginning. After all, the world has witnessed many localized floods over the centuries that have resulted in the loss of countless lives.

 

[WPM]

I agree, it totally alters the meaning of scripture. The whole earth seems badly translated.

A careful study of the Greek words ouranos and gē mentioned in 2 Peter 3, which some Premils are forced to redefine, shows your interpretation to be in error. 59 times in the New Testament “heaven” and “earth” are found together in the same passage describing exactly what the outside of the box says – what most ordinary people would understand as “heaven” and “earth.” Interestingly in every case the two Greek words ouranos and gē are employed to describe the heavenly realm and the globe of the earth. Philippians 2:10 is the only slight variation, although it is only a technical difference, where a literal reading of the text should read ‘earthly’ (epigeios) and ‘heavenly’ (epouranios). However, both significantly were derived from the same two repeated Greek words used elsewhere to describe “heaven” and “earth” – ouranos and gē. What is more, of the 6 references to “heavens” (plural) and “earth” all use these two same Greek words.

 

[WPM]

I agree, it totally alters the meaning of scripture. The whole earth seems badly translated.

Why have the ark in the 1st place? Why go to the bother of bringing 2 of everything unto the ark if this were a mere local flood and when thousands of every kind were alive and kicking throughout the whole world. This was a pointless exercise.

 

[WPM]

I understand your position. Obviously, being a Premill I think these are world-wide fires, caused by a nuclear conflagration. No, I don't think everyone dies. But those who come under judgment certainly meet their Maker.

Where do you get this from? The fire of destruction comes from Christ.

 

[WPM]

Let me be clear here. By Amil I'm not meaning every single Amil. I'm only meaning Amils falsely teaching these things, that God is literally going to engulf the entire planet in fire the same same way He literally engulfed the entire planet in water during Noah's flood.

I fully agree with Amil about the timing of 2 Peter 3:10-12 regardless that I'm Premil . I disagree with certain Amils that the entire planet is going to be literally engulfed in flames, therefore, burning to death infants, children, adults, the entire animal kingdom, etc.

And no, I'm not interested in hearing these Amils possibly argue that He is going to spare infants and children though, when these Amils know good and well He never spared them during Noah's flood. And since it is absurd that He would burn to death infants and children to begin with, let alone the entire animal kingdom, this tells any reasonable person He's not going to literally set the entire planet on fire to begin with.

Genesis 9:13 I do set my bow in the cloud, and it shall be for a token of a covenant between me and the earth.
14 And it shall come to pass, when I bring a cloud over the earth, that the bow shall be seen in the cloud:
15 And I will remember my covenant, which is between me and you and every living creature of all flesh; and the waters shall no more become a flood to destroy all flesh.
16 And the bow shall be in the cloud; and I will look upon it, that I may remember the everlasting covenant between God and every living creature of all flesh that is upon the earth.
17 And God said unto Noah, This is the token of the covenant, which I have established between me and all flesh that is upon the earth.

Unlike certain Amils in this case, I believe what God said here. I do not think God is a liar here, but apparently they do.

If God plainly said that He is never going to do this ever again--- and the waters shall no more become a flood to destroy all flesh. We are to believe He has found a loophole, that He is going to do something a million times more profound, burn all flesh to death this time around?

Picture being on a small ship at sea that has caught on fire and that there is no way to put it out, that it is raging fiercer by the minute. What fate do you assume one might choose per that scenario? Staying aboard the ship risking being burned to death eventually? Or jumping overboard risking being drowned to death eventually?

Surely these Amils have heard of cases where people were trapped in buildings numerous stories up that have caught on fire. And that some of them literally jumped out of windows to their death below rather than choosing to be burned to death instead. Clearly, being burned to death is one of the most cruelest ways to die, otherwise, why would anyone jump out of a window to their death below instead of being burned to death? They are going to die either way, regardless.

These Amils seriously need to repent of not believing God when He said what He said in verse 15 above, just so that they can make their Amil view supposedly work. No habitable planet = no millennium can follow, right? Yet, once again, if He's never going to do that ever again, He certainly isn't going to do something a million times more profound instead.

In my case, Premil has nothing to do with why I initially reject the Amil literal interpretation of 2 Peter 3:10-12. I reject it because I have better common sense than these certain Amils do in this case, since I know full well, if God is never going to bring a flood upon the earth to destroy all flesh, He certainly isn't going to do something even more profound, burn all flesh to death via the entire planet being literally engulfed in flames the way the entire planet was literally engulfed in water during Noah's day.

This is a main difference between Premil and Amil.

• Premillennialists advocate a partial freedom from evil, a localised removal of the curse, a limited lifting of the bondage of corruption, and, for the most part, an earthly environment that is pretty much similar to what we have today, when Jesus comes.
• Amillennialists sees the new earth as a place of complete perfection where every enemy of God’s righteous order will be eliminated through the fiery regeneration of this earth and the final destruction of the wicked that occurs at His climactic appearing.