The distain for romance, family, and the demonization of sexualality and women in Christianity

[Grailhunter]

Many times I have pointed out that after the biblical era God continued to teach Christian many things. The scriptures did not indicate that we should stop polygamy, concubinage, and slavery. But God taught us that we should stop polygamy, concubinage, and slavery.

The scriptures never say it is a requirement to have a wedding ceremony to be married but, the Protestants decided it should be required. One of the most significant things that God taught us.

But there are some things that Christianity is still learning. For example the equal status of women in Christianity. We are moving that direction slowly but why is this the tough lesson to learn? It is a hard question but I believe that it is a set of under laying beliefs.

It starts with the New Testament. Those in the New Testament thought that Yeshua could return at any moment and the priority was to spread the Gospel and save as many people as possible. They also thought that the time of severe persecution would soon occur, which it did happen for about 250 years.

So the reasoning by Christian leaders in the New Testament was that romance was a distraction. The church of Corinth asked Paul….is it good for a man not to touch a woman? 1st Corinthians 7:1
I would like you to be free from concern. An unmarried man is concerned about the Lord’s affairs—how he can please the Lord. But a married man is concerned about the affairs of this world—how he can please his wife— and his interests are divided. An unmarried woman or virgin is concerned about the Lord’s affairs: Her aim is to be devoted to the Lord in both body and spirit. But a married woman is concerned about the affairs of this world—how she can please her husband. I am saying this for your own good, not to restrict you, but that you may live in a right way in undivided devotion to the Lord. 1st Corinthians 7:32-35

The thinking was, why get married and have a wife and children if it all was going to end soon and why have a family to be horribly tortured and killed in the arenas. Paul gave marriage as a concession to prevent sin, but no one promoted or recommended marriage.

So most of the religious leaders in the New Testament were celibate. This continued after the biblical era, 65 AD and on.

Christian religious leaders were called Epískopos….meaning overseer. (Some like to call them Bishops and Popes but those titles do not occur until the English language evolved. Old English first… bisceop and English Bishop. In different languages Pope means Papa or father.)

The religious leaders continued these views towards love, sex, and marriage and families and most were celibate. So in a male dominate religion the negatives started to evolve….

If marriage was a distraction from the Lord, so were women. And why were they a distraction? Because of sex and the male desire for sex. Then women were labeled as tempters because who else tempts good men….the devil. So the demonization of sex and women was complete and the second rate status of women was locked into Christian thinking.

But not with everyone….most of the Christian congregations did not buy into the belief that love and marriage and family distracted them from God. It was mostly the Christian leadership that thought that celibacy made you more righteous or holy or more devoted to God. So love, and romance and marriage and families continued with the congregations.

Now love, and marriage and families and procreation is a big thing in reality. Usually a celibate religion will die out. So there grew a division on this topic in Christianity from the very beginning between the leadership and the congregations. This means what the leadership believed and lived and preached some thng that the
majority of their congregations did not believe or follow. Why? It was essentially wrong.

Now this becomes even more common in the Catholic Church ….4th century and on. Here are some of the things that the leadership thought…..

Origen, St. Jerome, St. Augustine, St. Ambrose, and St. Thomas Aquinas are not only the most famous theologians of Christian history, some held the titles of Fathers and Doctors of the Church and most were canonized as Saints. The bulk of modern beliefs, doctrines, and interpretations, in nearly all denominations, can be traced to these five men. It was bad enough that they subscribed to the violent nature of the Roman Empire, but their beliefs regarding women were devastating. These men had very negative views towards women and taught that anything to do with sex was straight from Satan. Any type of sexuality, beauty, feelings, or pleasure were the worst of sins, and celibacy, ugly, sorrow, suffering, and pain were Godly. There were Christians that actually tortured themselves. Romanic love in itself was considered wrong.

They believed marital sex was a sin even though they acknowledged that it was a necessity. A ridiculous conundrum of logic. A man’s desire for his wife was considered lust and the only time marital sex should occur was to have children and after that sex should stop. Origen actually castrated himself because he thought his penis was tempting him. Ouch! This is after a slue of sexual issues and statements against the evils of women and sex.
Continued...

 

[Grailhunter]

Even though St. Jerome obviously preferred the company of women, (Because the company he kept and most of his followers were women.) He still had this to say about the status of women: “….it is contrary to the order of nature, or of law, that women should speak in the assembly of men……and man should be commanded to love his wife, whereas the wife should fear her husband.” and he also said “Nothing is so unclean as a woman in her periods; what she touches she causes to become unclean.” Written by St. Jerome

“Because Eve caused the fall of Man she and all women were cursed to painfully deliver children between urine and feces.” Written by St. Jerome

“He who ardently loves his own wife is an adulterer….against God.” Written by St. Jerome

On the topic of sexual desire...“Who can control this when its appetite is aroused? No one! In the very movement of this appetite, then, it has no ‘mode’ that responds to the decisions of the will. But when those who delight in this pleasure are not moved to it at their own will, whether they confine themselves to lawful or transgress to a unlawful pleasures; but sometimes this lust importunes them in spite of themselves, and sometimes fails them when they desire to feel it, so that though lust rages in the mind, it stirs not in the body Written by St. Augustine

“This diabolical excitement of the genitals…” (As St. Augustine refers to the act of sex.) …is evidence of Adam’s original sin which is now transmitted “from the mother’s womb,” tainting all human beings with sin, and leaving them incapable of choosing good over evil, or determining their own destiny.” Written by St. Augustine

“We must conclude, that a husband is meant to rule over his wife as the spirit rules over the flesh. and “the flesh lusts against the spirit and the spirit against the flesh.” Written by St. Augustine

Referring to the Hell that awaits women, Augustine in his famous Latin sermon ''Ad Fratres in Eremitate Sermo LXIX.'' He describes how Satan seized the damned female and commanded his fellow devils to “pierce her eyes with forks as she enjoyed looking at unclean things, pierce her mouth as she used them for blasphemy, pierce her heart, as she did not harbor piety, compassion, clemency, and forgiveness there, pierce her hands with the heavy fork forged in Hell since she reached with them at things unclean and did not use them to distribute alms and help her neighbors, use the fiery forks to pierce her legs that she used to dance and meet her lovers.' Then to the gates of Hell she is carried and then '"out steps a hideous, horrible dragon, always ready to devour sinners. The dragon inserts the female into his mouth, full of stench. After chewing and digesting its prey, the dragon vomits the female into a fiery lake, where millions of other sinners wait for their trial by our Lord." Written by St. Augustine

“….marriage is a crime against God, because it changed the state of virginity that God gave every man and woman at birth....Marriage was prostitution of the members of Christ, and married people ought to blush at the state in which they live.” Written by St. Ambrose

In the year 553 A.D. At a Council of Bishops in Macon, religious leaders debate and voted on whether or not females had souls. By a narrow margin the Bishops decide that females have souls. Like it was their choice.

Penitential regulation laid down in the 7th century by Theodore, Bishop of Canterbury, forbade menstruating women to take communion or even enter the church. At the French Synod of Meraux, menstruating women were specifically forbidden to come to church

We move forward to the year 940 A.D. A well-respected religious leader named Odo, who was the leader of the Monks of Cluny, wrote, “To embrace a woman is to embrace a sack of manure.” And considered “….the beauty of a woman the greatest of snares.”

Thomas Aquinas, 1225-1274, Italian professor of philosophy, Catholic theologian, and doctor of the Church, sainted in 1323. One of the few geniuses of Christianity. He had great potential, but his downfall was that he built his theology on the teachings of Saint Augustine and Aristotle and other Greek concepts which made his conclusions inherently flawed. Christianity could have been a better religion if he would have thought it through with his own brilliant mind. In his writings he responded to many negative statements towards women, so not all of what I have here came from him. On the topic of the production of women; “...woman is defective and misbegotten, for the active power in the male seed tends to the productions of perfect likeness (male babies) according to the masculine sex; while the productions of woman comes from defect in the active power.” (In other words, corrupt or damages the male seed to produce a female baby.) He goes on to explain that women are subject to men because men are more intelligent and women are necessary for the balance of good and evil, and that although they are an occasion for sin, they are necessity so male babies can be born... “Nor was it fitting for the common good (men) to be destroyed in order that individual evil (women) might be avoided.” On the topic of sex, Thomas equates innocence and purity to men, but as far as women, only if they are virgins. Mind and soul based on the status of their vaginas! But then he does recognize the necessity of sex, but then also pointing out its inherently sinful nature, nearly implying that in this world, life cannot exist without sex and sin....This is straight up Greek philosophy. Because of his focus on St. Augustine and Aristotle, his writings were elegant and intellectual horse shit. Such a shame...but he never supported the mistreatment of women.

Origen believed that marriage came into existence as a result of the Fall. He believed that human beings originate as angelic spirits that descend from a state of beatitude into human bodies. Sexuality, according to him, is an unfortunate means for providing bodies to the fallen spirits.

From this St. Augustine instituted the doctrine of Original Sin. The belief that sin is transferred by sex and babies are born with sin on their souls and can go to Hell if not Baptized.

This was one of the causes of the horror of the witch-hunts and the horrible torture and killing of women, which lasted for about 900 years. This spurred the Catholic Church to write the Hammer of Witches… Malleus Maleficarum which was a torture manual for women. The witch-hunts and inquisitions were all initiated by the Catholic Church.
Approved sexual conduct by the Catholic Church.

The Catholic Church's approved sexual conduct...
View attachment 69644

 

[Grailhunter]

Now I have explained before it was the Protestants that first made church Marriage Ceremonies a requirement to be married. Before that Christianity and the Catholic Church did not require Marriage Ceremonies to be married. The Catholic Church would not even allow Marriage Ceremonies in their churches. That all changed after the Protestants made Marriage Ceremonies a requirement.

Now I am not saying that Marriage Ceremonies were not occurring in Christianity all along. Marriage Ceremonies was a custom of the Gentiles that Paul brought into the Church and so voluntary Wedding Ceremonies were happening all along after he converted them.

Then Martin Luther in his attempt to reform the Catholic Church spurs the Protestant reform movement. Marriage and families become a good thing and Christianity adopts the focus on the family. Preachers and congregations were united on this belief.

But still we had the problem with thinking sex is dirty and the 2nd rate status of women in society and Christianity.

This was one of the causes of the horror of the witch-hunts and the horrible torture and killing of women, which lasted for about 900 years. This spurred the Catholic Church to write the Hammer of Witches… Malleus Maleficarum which was a torture manual for women. The witch-hunts and inquisitions were all initiated by the Catholic Church.

The rest of this history could fill a book….
1920 The Nineteenth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution is ratified. It declares: “The right of citizens of the United States to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any State on account of sex.”

The first recorded time when a woman divorced her husband in the American colonies was that of Anne Clarke and her husband Denis Clarke of the Massachusetts Bay Colony on January 5, 1643.

The Matrimonial Causes Act of 1857 gave women in England the ability to petition for divorce from their husbands.

ERA the Equal Rights Amendments started in the 70’s and has been an evolving effort.

The history of dating. Before 1800’s a lot of marriages were arranged by the fathers of the bride and groom. And then courtship as a custom was conducted at the bride’s home. Ladies were not allowed to be alone with men.

This change upon the advent of the automobile with an enclosed cabin around 1920. How many people were conceived in the back seat of a car? And then the pill….contraception….around 1960…. and the “sexual revolution.” Christianity handled all this wrong. Because they thought sex was dirty, nasty, and sinful all they did was condemn and people did not listen. It was the wrong angle to address this problem. The struggle between God given sex drives and Christian beliefs produced some harmful conundrums in Christianity and even society.

In the 70’s women played into this condemnation and that made matters worse. Ladies stopped wearing bras and started wearing tube tops and mini skirts and short shorts.

Now a days so much has changed that it would take a book to cover it. Modest dressing is more of a norm now. But casual sex is also a norm.

Since the 70’s church attendance has shrinked and now a lot Christians argue that church attendance is not necessary. Part of that is because they preach things that are not biblical. They have a fascination with man-made sins and a lot of people do not buy into that. The vast list of man-made sins give ammo for condemnation and makes a lot church sermons negative.

Churches should be preaching love of God and love for one another. Women should be equal in church at all levels. And sexual intercourse is not a sin. If two people in love make love it is not a sin. But people need to know biblically at that point they are married. Not all marriages work out whether or not if they have sex before or after the Wedding Ceremony…..we are human.

But I believe instead of churches preaching that sex is dirty, nasty, sinful, and of the devil, they should preach that sex is sacred. And treat it as sacred, respect yourself and the person you love. For this reason a man shall leave his father and his mother, and be joined to his wife; and they shall become one flesh. Genesis 2:24 Biblically this is how marriages are formed.

Why is sexual intercourse sacred? The sexual union forms the marriage and it can produces life….children literally shapes the future for the couple. As it is now Christianity has a focus on the family. To be successful in a relationship a person needs to know the person they are engaging with. Casual sex is not only a sin it is wrong and degrading and harmful in so many ways.

God given sex drives are good. Without them the human race would have died out. Just easier to pursue your own interests and support yourself. Some Sociologists believe even if the human race survived a lot of what we have now, highways, cities, and technology would not exist. Men could live in a lean to or cave and drink wine and fish. I will argue that the love of women actually matures a man and makes him responsible.

For Christians the best place to meet a person you are interested in dating is the church. And Churches need to preach that sexuality is a good thing and it should be treated with respect. Marriages and families are part of the foundation of Christianity. And the church should instruct the congregations on how to pick a mate and how to date.

To make a long story short is impossible, so many topics connected to this. What are your thoughts?

 

[GodsGrace]

Very long GH, but very good.
Will go through it in the morning....
It's good to know church history.
'night.

 

[shepherdsword]

What "grail" are you hunting?

 

[Grailhunter]

Very long GH, but very good.
Will go through it in the morning....
It's good to know church history.
'night.

This topic could fill a volume of books and that is why I have difficulty keeping it short.
This was part of some essays I did back in the 90’s. I also did one that was a humorous look at what God had to do to men to make them attracted to women. Without sex drives it is questionable if the human race would have survived. Without sex drives there would be no reason for men to be responsible. A man’s attraction to women and the desire for her love mean he has to provide housing more than a lean to….to house, protect, support, and feed his wife and children. It is a lot more work for a man to have a wife and children than for him to live his life only concerned for his own support and happiness.

So to establish society as a whole God had to instill strong and persistent desires in the psyche of men, the desire for women, to have and to hold and the desire to be loved by a woman. And the desire to be love by a woman is just as important as the desire for sex. If not the sexual life of a man could be a hit and run affair.

But still God’s involvement with this was evolving. The Jews got the sexual needs down and the have and to hold down but only at the primitive level. They forced their desires on the women they owned. They bought their women from their fathers. And designating women as property put them in a second rate status in society and in the Jewish religion.

As it turns out this is a difficult thing to correct. Oddly enough Christianity did not initially change that. Arranged marriages continued and the exchange of money continued. The difference was that in Christianity women were not only 2nd rate citizens but also evil temptresses. This mind set lead to the witch-hunts that lasted around 700 years.

But things are slowly improving.

 

[Grailhunter]

What "grail" are you hunting?

LOL The truth about Christianity.

 

[GodsGrace]

Many times I have pointed out that after the biblical era God continued to teach Christian many things. The scriptures did not indicate that we should stop polygamy, concubinage, and slavery. But God taught us that we should stop polygamy, concubinage, and slavery.

Just going to post some comments....
Most on these forums refuse to study any church history and it makes conversation a little difficult.
Just to be clear....I know very little.

Your opening statement is very important because it shows how theology can evolve without abandoning core beliefs.

The scriptures never say it is a requirement to have a wedding ceremony to be married but, the Protestants decided it should be required. One of the most significant things that God taught us.

There were wedding ceremonies at the time of Jesus.
I believe there were always ceremonies - of one type or another.
Maybe you mean Christian?

But there are some things that Christianity is still learning. For example the equal status of women in Christianity. We are moving that direction slowly but why is this the tough lesson to learn? It is a hard question but I believe that it is a set of under laying beliefs.

It starts with the New Testament. Those in the New Testament thought that Yeshua could return at any moment and the priority was to spread the Gospel and save as many people as possible. They also thought that the time of severe persecution would soon occur, which it did happen for about 250 years.

So the reasoning by Christian leaders in the New Testament was that romance was a distraction. The church of Corinth asked Paul….is it good for a man not to touch a woman? 1st Corinthians 7:1
I would like you to be free from concern. An unmarried man is concerned about the Lord’s affairs—how he can please the Lord. But a married man is concerned about the affairs of this world—how he can please his wife— and his interests are divided. An unmarried woman or virgin is concerned about the Lord’s affairs: Her aim is to be devoted to the Lord in both body and spirit. But a married woman is concerned about the affairs of this world—how she can please her husband. I am saying this for your own good, not to restrict you, but that you may live in a right way in undivided devotion to the Lord. 1st Corinthians 7:32-35

The thinking was, why get married and have a wife and children if it all was going to end soon and why have a family to be horribly tortured and killed in the arenas. Paul gave marriage as a concession to prevent sin, but no one promoted or recommended marriage.

So most of the religious leaders in the New Testament were celibate. This continued after the biblical era, 65 AD and on.

The letters to the Thessalonians come to mind.
This is a teaching that was for THAT TIME.
I do want to say that the early church NEVER taught that an elder was to be unmarried but was to have only one wife.
Some on here believe that the early church - and thus the Catholic Church, which mean universal since there was only one - forbad elders to get married; which would be priests today.

Christian religious leaders were called Epískopos….meaning overseer. (Some like to call them Bishops and Popes but those titles do not occur until the English language evolved. Old English first… bisceop and English Bishop. In different languages Pope means Papa or father.)

The religious leaders continued these views towards love, sex, and marriage and families and most were celibate. So in a male dominate religion the negatives started to evolve….

If marriage was a distraction from the Lord, so were women. And why were they a distraction? Because of sex and the male desire for sex. Then women were labeled as tempters because who else tempts good men….the devil. So the demonization of sex and women was complete and the second rate status of women was locked into Christian thinking.

The Scarlet Letter

But not with everyone….most of the Christian congregations did not buy into the belief that love and marriage and family distracted them from God. It was mostly the Christian leadership that thought that celibacy made you more righteous or holy or more devoted to God. So love, and romance and marriage and families continued with the congregations.

Now love, and marriage and families and procreation is a big thing in reality. Usually a celibate religion will die out. So there grew a division on this topic in Christianity from the very beginning between the leadership and the congregations. This means what the leadership believed and lived and preached some thng that the
majority of their congregations did not believe or follow. Why? It was essentially wrong.

Now this becomes even more common in the Catholic Church ….4th century and on. Here are some of the things that the leadership thought…..

Origen, St. Jerome, St. Augustine, St. Ambrose, and St. Thomas Aquinas are not only the most famous theologians of Christian history, some held the titles of Fathers and Doctors of the Church and most were canonized as Saints. The bulk of modern beliefs, doctrines, and interpretations, in nearly all denominations, can be traced to these five men. It was bad enough that they subscribed to the violent nature of the Roman Empire, but their beliefs regarding women were devastating. These men had very negative views towards women and taught that anything to do with sex was straight from Satan. Any type of sexuality, beauty, feelings, or pleasure were the worst of sins, and celibacy, ugly, sorrow, suffering, and pain were Godly. There were Christians that actually tortured themselves. Romanic love in itself was considered wrong.

They believed marital sex was a sin even though they acknowledged that it was a necessity. A ridiculous conundrum of logic. A man’s desire for his wife was considered lust and the only time marital sex should occur was to have children and after that sex should stop. Origen actually castrated himself because he thought his penis was tempting him. Ouch! This is after a slue of sexual issues and statements against the evils of women and sex.
Continued...

Didn't know all this....

 

[GodsGrace]

Even though St. Jerome obviously preferred the company of women, (Because the company he kept and most of his followers were women.) He still had this to say about the status of women: “….it is contrary to the order of nature, or of law, that women should speak in the assembly of men……and man should be commanded to love his wife, whereas the wife should fear her husband.” and he also said “Nothing is so unclean as a woman in her periods; what she touches she causes to become unclean.” Written by St. Jerome

“Because Eve caused the fall of Man she and all women were cursed to painfully deliver children between urine and feces.” Written by St. Jerome

But scripture states that Adam caused the fall.
OK, continuing.

“He who ardently loves his own wife is an adulterer….against God.” Written by St. Jerome

On the topic of sexual desire...“Who can control this when its appetite is aroused? No one! In the very movement of this appetite, then, it has no ‘mode’ that responds to the decisions of the will. But when those who delight in this pleasure are not moved to it at their own will, whether they confine themselves to lawful or transgress to a unlawful pleasures; but sometimes this lust importunes them in spite of themselves, and sometimes fails them when they desire to feel it, so that though lust rages in the mind, it stirs not in the body Written by St. Augustine

Good ole' St. Augustine....
he had to invent the absence of free will to make for all the sinning he committed which gave him a guilty conscience he could not bear.

“This diabolical excitement of the genitals…” (As St. Augustine refers to the act of sex.) …is evidence of Adam’s original sin which is now transmitted “from the mother’s womb,” tainting all human beings with sin, and leaving them incapable of choosing good over evil, or determining their own destiny.” Written by St. Augustine

There you go.

“We must conclude, that a husband is meant to rule over his wife as the spirit rules over the flesh. and “the flesh lusts against the spirit and the spirit against the flesh.” Written by St. Augustine

Referring to the Hell that awaits women, Augustine in his famous Latin sermon ''Ad Fratres in Eremitate Sermo LXIX.'' He describes how Satan seized the damned female and commanded his fellow devils to “pierce her eyes with forks as she enjoyed looking at unclean things, pierce her mouth as she used them for blasphemy, pierce her heart, as she did not harbor piety, compassion, clemency, and forgiveness there, pierce her hands with the heavy fork forged in Hell since she reached with them at things unclean and did not use them to distribute alms and help her neighbors, use the fiery forks to pierce her legs that she used to dance and meet her lovers.' Then to the gates of Hell she is carried and then '"out steps a hideous, horrible dragon, always ready to devour sinners. The dragon inserts the female into his mouth, full of stench. After chewing and digesting its prey, the dragon vomits the female into a fiery lake, where millions of other sinners wait for their trial by our Lord." Written by St. Augustine

Mean devils !!

“….marriage is a crime against God, because it changed the state of virginity that God gave every man and woman at birth....Marriage was prostitution of the members of Christ, and married people ought to blush at the state in which they live.” Written by St. Ambrose

In the year 553 A.D. At a Council of Bishops in Macon, religious leaders debate and voted on whether or not females had souls. By a narrow margin the Bishops decide that females have souls. Like it was their choice.

This is getting weird GH!

Penitential regulation laid down in the 7th century by Theodore, Bishop of Canterbury, forbade menstruating women to take communion or even enter the church. At the French Synod of Meraux, menstruating women were specifically forbidden to come to church

We move forward to the year 940 A.D. A well-respected religious leader named Odo, who was the leader of the Monks of Cluny, wrote, “To embrace a woman is to embrace a sack of manure.” And considered “….the beauty of a woman the greatest of snares.”

Yeah. When man (humankind) takes over,,,it's a sad day for any orgainization.
The sin nature is truly alive and living.

Thomas Aquinas, 1225-1274, Italian professor of philosophy, Catholic theologian, and doctor of the Church, sainted in 1323. One of the few geniuses of Christianity. He had great potential, but his downfall was that he built his theology on the teachings of Saint Augustine and Aristotle and other Greek concepts which made his conclusions inherently flawed. Christianity could have been a better religion if he would have thought it through with his own brilliant mind. In his writings he responded to many negative statements towards women, so not all of what I have here came from him. On the topic of the production of women; “...woman is defective and misbegotten, for the active power in the male seed tends to the productions of perfect likeness (male babies) according to the masculine sex; while the productions of woman comes from defect in the active power.” (In other words, corrupt or damages the male seed to produce a female baby.) He goes on to explain that women are subject to men because men are more intelligent and women are necessary for the balance of good and evil, and that although they are an occasion for sin, they are necessity so male babies can be born...

LOL
It depends on which man!!

“Nor was it fitting for the common good (men) to be destroyed in order that individual evil (women) might be avoided.” On the topic of sex, Thomas equates innocence and purity to men, but as far as women, only if they are virgins. Mind and soul based on the status of their vaginas! But then he does recognize the necessity of sex, but then also pointing out its inherently sinful nature, nearly implying that in this world, life cannot exist without sex and sin....This is straight up Greek philosophy. Because of his focus on St. Augustine and Aristotle, his writings were elegant and intellectual horse shit. Such a shame...but he never supported the mistreatment of women.

Origen believed that marriage came into existence as a result of the Fall. He believed that human beings originate as angelic spirits that descend from a state of beatitude into human bodies. Sexuality, according to him, is an unfortunate means for providing bodies to the fallen spirits.

I've always had my doubts about Origen and Tertullian---not my favorites.

From this St. Augustine instituted the doctrine of Original Sin. The belief that sin is transferred by sex and babies are born with sin on their souls and can go to Hell if not Baptized.

This was one of the causes of the horror of the witch-hunts and the horrible torture and killing of women, which lasted for about 900 years. This spurred the Catholic Church to write the Hammer of Witches… Malleus Maleficarum which was a torture manual for women. The witch-hunts and inquisitions were all initiated by the Catholic Church.
Approved sexual conduct by the Catholic Church.

The Catholic Church's approved sexual conduct...
View attachment 69644View attachment 69645

This is too much for me...had to stop reading.

 

[GodsGrace]

Now I have explained before it was the Protestants that first made church Marriage Ceremonies a requirement to be married. Before that Christianity and the Catholic Church did not require Marriage Ceremonies to be married. The Catholic Church would not even allow Marriage Ceremonies in their churches. That all changed after the Protestants made Marriage Ceremonies a requirement.

Now I am not saying that Marriage Ceremonies were not occurring in Christianity all along. Marriage Ceremonies was a custom of the Gentiles that Paul brought into the Church and so voluntary Wedding Ceremonies were happening all along after he converted them.

Ok This is what I thought - thus my prior question to you from the first page.

Then Martin Luther in his attempt to reform the Catholic Church spurs the Protestant reform movement. Marriage and families become a good thing and Christianity adopts the focus on the family. Preachers and congregations were united on this belief.

But still we had the problem with thinking sex is dirty and the 2nd rate status of women in society and Christianity.

This was one of the causes of the horror of the witch-hunts and the horrible torture and killing of women, which lasted for about 900 years. This spurred the Catholic Church to write the Hammer of Witches… Malleus Maleficarum which was a torture manual for women. The witch-hunts and inquisitions were all initiated by the Catholic Church.

The rest of this history could fill a book….
1920 The Nineteenth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution is ratified. It declares: “The right of citizens of the United States to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any State on account of sex.”

The first recorded time when a woman divorced her husband in the American colonies was that of Anne Clarke and her husband Denis Clarke of the Massachusetts Bay Colony on January 5, 1643.

The Matrimonial Causes Act of 1857 gave women in England the ability to petition for divorce from their husbands.

ERA the Equal Rights Amendments started in the 70’s and has been an evolving effort.

The history of dating. Before 1800’s a lot of marriages were arranged by the fathers of the bride and groom. And then courtship as a custom was conducted at the bride’s home. Ladies were not allowed to be alone with men.

This change upon the advent of the automobile with an enclosed cabin around 1920. How many people were conceived in the back seat of a car? And then the pill….contraception….around 1960…. and the “sexual revolution.” Christianity handled all this wrong. Because they thought sex was dirty, nasty, and sinful all they did was condemn and people did not listen. It was the wrong angle to address this problem. The struggle between God given sex drives and Christian beliefs produced some harmful conundrums in Christianity and even society.

In the 70’s women played into this condemnation and that made matters worse. Ladies stopped wearing bras and started wearing tube tops and mini skirts and short shorts.

Now a days so much has changed that it would take a book to cover it. Modest dressing is more of a norm now. But casual sex is also a norm.

Since the 70’s church attendance has shrinked and now a lot Christians argue that church attendance is not necessary. Part of that is because they preach things that are not biblical. They have a fascination with man-made sins and a lot of people do not buy into that. The vast list of man-made sins give ammo for condemnation and makes a lot church sermons negative.

Ooops. I fall into this category.
I know WHY I should attend Mass (I live here) but I don't understand it at times and have basically stopped going.

Churches should be preaching love of God and love for one another. Women should be equal in church at all levels. And sexual intercourse is not a sin. If two people in love make love it is not a sin. But people need to know biblically at that point they are married. Not all marriages work out whether or not if they have sex before or after the Wedding Ceremony…..we are human.

But I believe instead of churches preaching that sex is dirty, nasty, sinful, and of the devil, they should preach that sex is sacred. And treat it as sacred, respect yourself and the person you love. For this reason a man shall leave his father and his mother, and be joined to his wife; and they shall become one flesh. Genesis 2:24 Biblically this is how marriages are formed.

I've heard preaching on the second part of the above paragraph.
Of course the 2nd paragraph is correct.

Why is sexual intercourse sacred? The sexual union forms the marriage and it can produces life….children literally shapes the future for the couple. As it is now Christianity has a focus on the family. To be successful in a relationship a person needs to know the person they are engaging with. Casual sex is not only a sin it is wrong and degrading and harmful in so many ways.

Very true.
And I'd like to add that a WIFE is different from a girlfriend.
The two shall become as one....
The man has to take on the responsibillity of having a wife and family.
Not an easy task, I'm sure.
And a wife also has her life changed by agreeing to be a wife...
but this role is not taken so seriously these days and I believe we're suffering the effects of this lax attitude.
(on the woman's side).

God given sex drives are good. Without them the human race would have died out. Just easier to pursue your own interests and support yourself. Some Sociologists believe even if the human race survived a lot of what we have now, highways, cities, and technology would not exist. Men could live in a lean to or cave and drink wine and fish. I will argue that the love of women actually matures a man and makes him responsible.

Agreed.

For Christians the best place to meet a person you are interested in dating is the church. And Churches need to preach that sexuality is a good thing and it should be treated with respect. Marriages and families are part of the foundation of Christianity. And the church should instruct the congregations on how to pick a mate and how to date.

To make a long story short is impossible, so many topics connected to this. What are your thoughts?

I'm pretty shocked at the attitude of those around the 4th and 5th centuries and after.
I actually don't think men and women are equal in the sense that we understand it today....
they cannot be equal because their entire make up, both physical and emotional, is different.
So maybe we went from one extreme to the other and neither one works.
God's way works...but we have sinful men trying to teach what God never said.

Good post....
A lot I didn't know.
Or, let's say, it was worse than what I had thought.

 

[GodsGrace]

This topic could fill a volume of books and that is why I have difficulty keeping it short.
This was part of some essays I did back in the 90’s. I also did one that was a humorous look at what God had to do to men to make them attracted to women. Without sex drives it is questionable if the human race would have survived. Without sex drives there would be no reason for men to be responsible. A man’s attraction to women and the desire for her love mean he has to provide housing more than a lean to….to house, protect, support, and feed his wife and children. It is a lot more work for a man to have a wife and children than for him to live his life only concerned for his own support and happiness.

So to establish society as a whole God had to instill strong and persistent desires in the psyche of men, the desire for women, to have and to hold and the desire to be loved by a woman. And the desire to be love by a woman is just as important as the desire for sex. If not the sexual life of a man could be a hit and run affair.

But still God’s involvement with this was evolving. The Jews got the sexual needs down and the have and to hold down but only at the primitive level. They forced their desires on the women they owned. They bought their women from their fathers. And designating women as property put them in a second rate status in society and in the Jewish religion.

As it turns out this is a difficult thing to correct. Oddly enough Christianity did not initially change that. Arranged marriages continued and the exchange of money continued. The difference was that in Christianity women were not only 2nd rate citizens but also evil temptresses. This mind set lead to the witch-hunts that lasted around 700 years.

But things are slowly improving.

I think they improved TOO MUCH !
Like I said before,,,we went from one extreme to the other.
It's bad both/either way.
We're leaving this world to the next generation...
they'll have to figure it out.

 

[Grailhunter]

There were wedding ceremonies at the time of Jesus.
I believe there were always ceremonies - of one type or another.
Maybe you mean Christian?

Wedding ceremonies go back thousands of years but they were Pagan customs and when Paul converted the Pagans they brought the custom of wedding ceremonies into Christianity. So wedding where occurring from then on voluntarily and in the 16th century Protestants made church weddings mandatory to be married.

Jewish wedding are another story, to keep it short, the Old Testament and New Testament does not require weddings. Between the testaments the Jews developed a wedding ceremony, but it fell out of favor for a while and then later came back.

 

[marks]

The scriptures never say it is a requirement to have a wedding ceremony to be married but,

However, Scripture treats people as married or not based on how their culture defines being wed.

Jesus told the Samaritan woman "you've had 5 husbands, and you aren't married to the one you are with, so yes, you don't have a husband. Yes, there is a difference.

Much love!

 

[Grailhunter]

The letters to the Thessalonians come to mind.
This is a teaching that was for THAT TIME.
I do want to say that the early church NEVER taught that an elder was to be unmarried but was to have only one wife.
Some on here believe that the early church - and thus the Catholic Church, which mean universal since there was only one - forbad elders to get married; which would be priests today.

Agreed.

Ooops. I fall into this category.
I know WHY I should attend Mass (I live here) but I don't understand it at times and have basically stopped going.

We understand what we can but we should understand that standing with other Christians and worshiping the Lord is important.

 

[Grailhunter]

Very true.
And I'd like to add that a WIFE is different from a girlfriend.
The two shall become as one....
The man has to take on the responsibillity of having a wife and family.
Not an easy task, I'm sure.
And a wife also has her life changed by agreeing to be a wife...
but this role is not taken so seriously these days and I believe we're suffering the effects of this lax attitude.
(on the woman's side).

Agreed

 

[GodsGrace]

Agreed.


We understand what we can but we should understand that standing with other Christians and worshiping the Lord is important.

I agree.
I have to start going back....
It's Mass. It's good, but maybe I just miss the fellowship,
but it was so many years ago - but I still remember how it was.

 

[nedsk]

Many times I have pointed out that after the biblical era God continued to teach Christian many things. The scriptures did not indicate that we should stop polygamy, concubinage, and slavery. But God taught us that we should stop polygamy, concubinage, and slavery.

The scriptures never say it is a requirement to have a wedding ceremony to be married but, the Protestants decided it should be required. One of the most significant things that God taught us.

But there are some things that Christianity is still learning. For example the equal status of women in Christianity. We are moving that direction slowly but why is this the tough lesson to learn? It is a hard question but I believe that it is a set of under laying beliefs.

It starts with the New Testament. Those in the New Testament thought that Yeshua could return at any moment and the priority was to spread the Gospel and save as many people as possible. They also thought that the time of severe persecution would soon occur, which it did happen for about 250 years.

So the reasoning by Christian leaders in the New Testament was that romance was a distraction. The church of Corinth asked Paul….is it good for a man not to touch a woman? 1st Corinthians 7:1
I would like you to be free from concern. An unmarried man is concerned about the Lord’s affairs—how he can please the Lord. But a married man is concerned about the affairs of this world—how he can please his wife— and his interests are divided. An unmarried woman or virgin is concerned about the Lord’s affairs: Her aim is to be devoted to the Lord in both body and spirit. But a married woman is concerned about the affairs of this world—how she can please her husband. I am saying this for your own good, not to restrict you, but that you may live in a right way in undivided devotion to the Lord. 1st Corinthians 7:32-35

The thinking was, why get married and have a wife and children if it all was going to end soon and why have a family to be horribly tortured and killed in the arenas. Paul gave marriage as a concession to prevent sin, but no one promoted or recommended marriage.

So most of the religious leaders in the New Testament were celibate. This continued after the biblical era, 65 AD and on.

Christian religious leaders were called Epískopos….meaning overseer. (Some like to call them Bishops and Popes but those titles do not occur until the English language evolved. Old English first… bisceop and English Bishop. In different languages Pope means Papa or father.)

The religious leaders continued these views towards love, sex, and marriage and families and most were celibate. So in a male dominate religion the negatives started to evolve….

If marriage was a distraction from the Lord, so were women. And why were they a distraction? Because of sex and the male desire for sex. Then women were labeled as tempters because who else tempts good men….the devil. So the demonization of sex and women was complete and the second rate status of women was locked into Christian thinking.

But not with everyone….most of the Christian congregations did not buy into the belief that love and marriage and family distracted them from God. It was mostly the Christian leadership that thought that celibacy made you more righteous or holy or more devoted to God. So love, and romance and marriage and families continued with the congregations.

Now love, and marriage and families and procreation is a big thing in reality. Usually a celibate religion will die out. So there grew a division on this topic in Christianity from the very beginning between the leadership and the congregations. This means what the leadership believed and lived and preached some thng that the
majority of their congregations did not believe or follow. Why? It was essentially wrong.

Now this becomes even more common in the Catholic Church ….4th century and on. Here are some of the things that the leadership thought…..

Origen, St. Jerome, St. Augustine, St. Ambrose, and St. Thomas Aquinas are not only the most famous theologians of Christian history, some held the titles of Fathers and Doctors of the Church and most were canonized as Saints. The bulk of modern beliefs, doctrines, and interpretations, in nearly all denominations, can be traced to these five men. It was bad enough that they subscribed to the violent nature of the Roman Empire, but their beliefs regarding women were devastating. These men had very negative views towards women and taught that anything to do with sex was straight from Satan. Any type of sexuality, beauty, feelings, or pleasure were the worst of sins, and celibacy, ugly, sorrow, suffering, and pain were Godly. There were Christians that actually tortured themselves. Romanic love in itself was considered wrong.

They believed marital sex was a sin even though they acknowledged that it was a necessity. A ridiculous conundrum of logic. A man’s desire for his wife was considered lust and the only time marital sex should occur was to have children and after that sex should stop. Origen actually castrated himself because he thought his penis was tempting him. Ouch! This is after a slue of sexual issues and statements against the evils of women and sex.
Continued...

What do you mean "equal status of women in Christianity"? Women aren't equal in Christianity?

 

[GodsGrace]

What do you mean "equal status of women in Christianity"? Women aren't equal in Christianity?

Be nice nedsk!

Woman SHOULD not be equal in Christianity.
In the CC they certainly aren't.

A woman cannot be a Deacon and certainly not a priest.
And I'm hoping this doesn't change.

A woman can teach children but cannot teach adults - unless in an informal manner in a home....
and some priests require that a certain routine be followed (and some don't).

So what makes you think women are equal ?

 

[Grailhunter]

What do you mean "equal status of women in Christianity"? Women aren't equal in Christianity?

More equal today than they use to be.
Women blamed for the fall of man.
Women saved by child birthing.
Women to be silent in church.
No authority over men.
Women should not be pastors.
The chain of command in a family.

 

[HealthyShape]

Women are equal to men, in Christianity. We are all sinners, we are all saved, we are all the children of God, we can all serve in the kingdom of God, we can all study and read the sacred texts, we can all pray etc.

This is very exceptional and unique, considering other religions.