Is it possible to lose salvation?

[Muna]

Maybe I am not asking the right question, I was infant baptized (as I have stated) and so what is this to mean to me now?

The Pharisees rejected John's baptism (which was by water). Whereas I might reject a baptism imposed upon me because I could not chose it for myself. Now I did chose to be when presented with the choice, when I actually had the ability to both repent and/or believe the gospel. A choice I did not have as an infant, which only made me lazy enough to refer to "it" (as a legitimate thing for me) if/when someone asked me about "my" faith. "Oh, (I might respond) I was baptized Catholic, our whole family is "that" and so I have also been "that" all my life (sort of thing). Like some sort of token badge of honor (which I had nothing to do with) nor could I prove it to be some sort of genuine thing (for me) from the scripture even if I wanted to because I knew less about the scriptures, and very little about faith in Jesus Christ (which I really did not have) and so obviously I would care even less to comunicate concerning that too. I just defaulted to my infant waterboarding experience which I have zero recollection of (or choice of participating in).

 

[nedsk]

Maybe I am not asking the right question, I was infant baptized (as I have stated) and so what is this to mean to me now?

The Pharisees rejected John's baptism (which was by water). Whereas I might reject a baptism imposed upon me because I could not chose it for myself. Now I did chose to be when presented with the choice, when I actually had the ability to both repent and/or believe the gospel. A choice I did not have as an infant, which only made me lazy enough to refer to "it" (as a legitimate thing for me) if/when someone asked me about "my" faith. "Oh, (I might respond) I was baptized Catholic, our whole family is "that" and so I have also been "that" all my life (sort of thing). Like some sort of token badge of honor (which I had nothing to do with) nor could I prove it to be some sort of genuine thing (for me) from the scripture even if I wanted to because I knew less about the scriptures, and very little about faith in Jesus Christ (which I really did not have) and so obviously I would care even less to comunicate concerning that too. I just defaulted to my infant waterboarding experience which I have zero recollection of (or choice of participating in).

Ironically enough referring to it as "infant waterboarding" is infantile. It's born out of laziness or disrespect or maybe just pure ignorance but either way it doesn't encourage me to take anything you say very seriously.

 

[Muna]

Ironically enough referring to it as "infant waterboarding" is infantile.

Com on', I thought it was cute (I was talking about my own forced water experience)

It's born out of laziness or disrespect or maybe just pure ignorance but either way it doesn't encourage me to take anything you say very seriously.

Where am I called to respect my own waterboarding?

 

[nedsk]

Com on', I thought it was cute (I was talking about my own forced water experience)



Where am I called to respect my own waterboarding?

It wasn't forced and hopefully whoever brought you to baptism was doing so because they thought it was good to do for your soul and not just because, "that's what we do".

No where but decent people might respect it because others do and nothing is taken from you by doing so but not everyone is decent, right?

 

[BreadOfLife]

Maybe I am not asking the right question, I was infant baptized (as I have stated) and so what is this to mean to me now?

The Pharisees rejected John's baptism (which was by water). Whereas I might reject a baptism imposed upon me because I could not chose it for myself. Now I did chose to be when presented with the choice, when I actually had the ability to both repent and/or believe the gospel. A choice I did not have as an infant, which only made me lazy enough to refer to "it" (as a legitimate thing for me) if/when someone asked me about "my" faith. "Oh, (I might respond) I was baptized Catholic, our whole family is "that" and so I have also been "that" all my life (sort of thing). Like some sort of token badge of honor (which I had nothing to do with) nor could I prove it to be some sort of genuine thing (for me) from the scripture even if I wanted to because I knew less about the scriptures, and very little about faith in Jesus Christ (which I really did not have) and so obviously I would care even less to comunicate concerning that too. I just defaulted to my infant waterboarding experience which I have zero recollection of (or choice of participating in).

As I have repeatedly stated - this entire argument is moot, given its precursor, which was circumcision.

- Circumcision was the entrance into the Covenant with God.
- Baptism is the entrance into the New Covenant with God. It is the true “circumcision of the heart”, as Paul calls it.

Colossians 2:11-12
In him you were also circumcised with a circumcision not performed by human hands. Your whole self ruled by the flesh was put off when you were circumcised by Christ, having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through your faith in the working of God, who raised him from the dead.

Circumcision was chosen for infants by the parents.
The SAME is true for Baptism . . .

 

[Muna]

As I have repeatedly stated - this entire argument is moot, given its precursor, which was circumcision.

- Circumcision was the entrance into the Covenant with God.
- Baptism is the entrance into the New Covenant with God. It is the true “circumcision of the heart”, as Paul calls it.

Colossians 2:11-12
In him you were also circumcised with a circumcision not performed by human hands. Your whole self ruled by the flesh was put off when you were circumcised by Christ, having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through your faith in the working of God, who raised him from the dead.

Circumcision was chosen for infants by the parents.
The SAME is true for Baptism . . .

Why not highlight here?

Colossians 2:11-12
In him you were also circumcised with a circumcision not performed by human hands. Your whole self ruled by the flesh was put off when you were circumcised by Christ, having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through your faith in the working of God, who raised him from the dead.

 

[Muna]

It wasn't forced

I overlooked your post, were you there at my baptism?

Where could I have possibly given my consent as an infant?

It was forced on me then.

and hopefully whoever brought you to baptism was doing so because they thought it was good to do for your soul and not just because, "that's what we do".

I forgive them, they knew not what they were doing.

No where but decent people might respect it because others do and nothing is taken from you by doing so but not everyone is decent, right?

I used to respect myself for the same also, but then I thought, that is so not decent of me to do (being a respector of self)

 

[BreadOfLife]

Why not highlight here?

Colossians 2:11-12
In him you were also circumcised with a circumcision not performed by human hands. Your whole self ruled by the flesh was put off when you were circumcised by Christ, having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through your faith in the working of God, who raised him from the dead.

Circumcision was the cutting off of foreskin.
Baptism is immersion into water.

To what “human hands” are you referring?

 

[Muna]

Circumcision was the cutting off of foreskin.

There is that shown two ways, first here

Lev 1:3 And in the eighth day the flesh of his foreskin shall be circumcised.

Even in Jesus

Luke 2:21 And when eight days were accomplished for the circumcising of the child, his name was called JESUS, which was so named of the angel before he was conceived in the womb. (Phil 3:5 as with Paul)

Second here, circumcision of the foreskin of the heart

Deut 10:16 Circumcise therefore the foreskin of your heart, and be no more stiffnecked.

Baptism is immersion into water.

Right

To what “human hands” are you referring?

The verse you posted refers to the human hands here

Col 2:11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ

In the flesh made by hands

Ephes 2:11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;

 

[BreadOfLife]

There is that shown two ways, first here

Lev 1:3 And in the eighth day the flesh of his foreskin shall be circumcised.

Even in Jesus

Luke 2:21 And when eight days were accomplished for the circumcising of the child, his name was called JESUS, which was so named of the angel before he was conceived in the womb. (Phil 3:5 as with Paul)

Second here, circumcision of the foreskin of the heart

Deut 10:16 Circumcise therefore the foreskin of your heart, and be no more stiffnecked.

Right

The verse you posted refers to the human hands here

Col 2:11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ

In the flesh made by hands

Ephes 2:11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;

Soooo you agree that Baptism is the circumcision of the heart?

You made NO argument, so I guess you agree with me . . .

 

[Muna]

Soooo you agree that Baptism is the circumcision of the heart?

You said, " Circumcision was the cutting off of foreskin."

Shows two in the above post, you posted also

"Baptism is immersion into water."

Jesus who was cicumcised the eighth day according to the law was later baptized when he was older by John

Mat 3:16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him

Likewise it says here

1 Cr 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Mary had him circumcised his foreskin the eighth day (as a child) according to the law, and John (who had the Holy ghost from the womb) baptized Jesus with water when Jesus was around 30 years old, where the Spirit of God descended upon him there. After which times he was driven into the wilderness to be tried by the devil to return in power.

You made NO argument, so I guess you agree with me . . .

I agree with the scriptures, I dont see how I agreed with infant baptisn

 

[Muna]

Since its off topic and I am bored with this already, and since I agree with the scriptures posted (just not with infant baptism) I will leave you to take up this one with someone with more of a desire to go back and forth on it.

Not to mention, I have never heard anything that would change my mind in over thirty five years and I highly doubt something new will emerge to change it here.

So enjoy, moving on.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Shows two in the above post, you posted also

Don‘t understand what you’re saying here . . .

Jesus who was cicumcised the eighth day according to the law was later baptized when he was older by John

Mat 3:16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him

Likewise it says here

1 Cr 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Mary had him circumcised his foreskin the eighth day (as a child) according to the law, and John (who had the Holy ghost from the womb) baptized Jesus with water when Jesus was around 30 years old, where the Spirit of God descended upon him there. After which times he was driven into the wilderness to be tried by the devil to return in power.

So what’s your point??

As I stated before – the Baptism of John and the Baptism into Christ is NOT the same thing. Jesus was not being born again when He was Baptized by John.

I agree with the scriptures, I dont see how I agreed with infant baptisn

Yes, you “agree” with the Scriptures - but you can’t seem to tell me where the Scriptures themselves claim that they are the ONLY source of truth (Sola Scriptura). Your whole argument rests on this FALSE doctrine . . .

 

[David Lamb]

Soooo you agree that Baptism is the circumcision of the heart?

You made NO argument, so I guess you agree with me . . .

The only place in the bible where circumcision of the heart is mentioned doesn't say it is baptism:

“For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh; but he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the Spirit, not in the letter; whose praise is not from men but from God.” (Ro 2:28-29 NKJV)

 

[Marymog]

Never thought of myself as more righteous. I know my old nature to well to think I am better than others.

And you are very wrong that I do not recognize spiritual authority.

I am under a senior pastor and a group of elders. I do obey spiritual authority.

If by reading it and understanding it. Yes we can! Not fOtherwise we would not need pastor/teachers to mature us as written in Ephesiand.

But if you are suffusing that only rome and its leaders have the right to interpret the Word- you are wrong. No one is allowed to interpret the Word.

Only two organizations hold that the laity are not allowed to seek to understand the WQord for themselves-Rome and teh Jehovahs Witnesses. Both are wrong and have led their followers astray in many areas.

Well first off, you have grossly misapplied the Matt. 18 verse and ripped it way out odf the context jesus was speaking of. It was about church discipline and not being a robot to accept what ever the leadership of a sect says.

15 Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.

16 But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.

17 And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.

Well to you they may be false- but you have not established that by empirical evidence but mere opinion. And as they say about opinions, they are like buttholes, every one has one and they generally stink!

I would love to continue a discussion with you, but you are a very confusing person. You say, "No one is allowed to interpret the Word." and then 2 paragraphs later you tell me I am wrong on how I have interpreted the Word and then tell me how it should be interpreted.......

You allege The Church has "false teachings" but if you are practicing what you preach how would you know that? How can YOU know what a false teaching or a true teaching is if YOU are not allowed to interpret the Word? You make no sense....

Catholics are allowed to "seek to understand" Scripture and if you are a former Catholic, you know that is a lie to say they can't seek to understand Scripture.

Thanks for your opinion..........Mary

 

[Marymog]

You said, " Circumcision was the cutting off of foreskin."

Shows two in the above post, you posted also

"Baptism is immersion into water."

Jesus who was cicumcised the eighth day according to the law was later baptized when he was older by John

Mat 3:16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him

Likewise it says here

1 Cr 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Mary had him circumcised his foreskin the eighth day (as a child) according to the law, and John (who had the Holy ghost from the womb) baptized Jesus with water when Jesus was around 30 years old, where the Spirit of God descended upon him there. After which times he was driven into the wilderness to be tried by the devil to return in power.


I agree with the scriptures, I dont see how I agreed with infant baptisn

I have been reading your back-and-forth debate with @BreadOfLife and the last sentence in this post piqued my interest. You say you agree with Scripture, but it appears to me that you really don't.

Scripture says, "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,"

It appears that you have edited that vs into: Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them, but not the infants, in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

Scripture says, "And when she and her household were baptized,"

Your edit: And when she and her household, but not any infants, were baptized,....

Scripture says: And immediately he and all his family were baptized.

Your edit: And immediately he and all his family, but no infants, were baptized.

Scripture says: Yes, I also baptized the household of Stephanas.

Your edit: Yes, I also baptized the household, minus the infants, of Stephanas.

Also, you ignore your own Christian history. If you read what the earliest Christians have to say on this matter you will see that infant baptism was practiced by your NT era forefathers. It wasn't until the Protestant Revolution came along that some men stopped practicing it and started preaching against their NT forefathers.

I realize nothing I have just written will change your mind. I mean if Scripture and Christian History hasn't changed your mind on this matter, I realize I have zero chance.

Mary

 

[nedsk]

I overlooked your post, were you there at my baptism?

Where could I have possibly given my consent as an infant?

It was forced on me then.


I forgive them, they knew not what they were doing.

I used to respect myself for the same also, but then I thought, that is so not decent of me to do (being a respector of self)

So you're angry for the wrong reasons. You have a perverse and incorrect idea about baptism. The only thing forced in you is ignorance by your own error in judgement.

Then I'll cease to respect you as well.

 

[Marymog]

“interpretation.”

Some people like throwing that word around to make people stumble in the word of God.

God gives instructions in his holy word, both with plain commands and with multiple examples throughout time. No “interpretation” is required for these things.

“Interpretation” merely involves an explanation of meanings of words. In scripture it also involved explaining of dreams (which interpretations only belonged to God)

“…And Joseph said… Do not interpretations belong to God?” (Gen 40:8, KJV)

Any “interpretation” is solved by utilizing a dictionary. Also, knowledge of the entire Holy Bible is crucial because the Bible often explains itself in multiple places.

Your “interpretation” argument is vanity and a smokescreen.

Lol.......OK

Now let me prove you wrong: Biblical interpretation refers to the process of explaining or elucidating the meaning of Scripture. It involves understanding the original intent of the biblical authors, properly translating His words into your vernacular, the cultural and historical context, and the application of biblical truths......

Oh goodness, why am I wasting my time. Your vanity won't allow you to admit you are wrong soooooo Adios.........Mary

 

[nedsk]

Lol.......OK

Now let me prove you wrong: Biblical interpretation refers to the process of explaining or elucidating the meaning of Scripture. It involves understanding the original intent of the biblical authors, properly translating His words into your vernacular, the cultural and historical context, and the application of biblical truths......

Oh goodness, why am I wasting my time. Your vanity won't allow you to admit you are wrong soooooo Adios.........Mary

There's one thing you can always count on with Protestants they'll best you over the head with their wrong interpretations and will insist they're right because they say so. I don't think its caused by vanity it's caused arrogance

 

[BreadOfLife]

The only place in the bible where circumcision of the heart is mentioned doesn't say it is baptism:

“For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh; but he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the Spirit, not in the letter; whose praise is not from men but from God.” (Ro 2:28-29 NKJV)

I beg to differ.
Here, Paul is talking about the SAME thing . . .

Col. 2:11-12
In him you were also circumcised with a circumcision not performed by human hands. Your whole self ruled by the flesh was put off when you were circumcised by Christ, having been buried with him in BAPTISM, in which you were also raised with him through your faith in the working of God, who raised him from the dead.