Bible Study: The Gospel is in the Torah

[Lizbeth]

Can a person be "blinded" by grace? Yes. "Grace is deceitful". A person can deny the very words of God in order to try grabbing hold of something that should only be handled with fear.

Abel was deemed righteous by God. Was he imputed with a righteousness not his own? Of course not. He is called "righteous Abel"

Is this understood by religious ideologues today? No. These are blind to the truth

Why deny what is plainly related in Scripture? It is because the only kind of righteousness that the unrighteous have is SELF-righteousness...a charge which they try passing off onto the righteous. Then they claim to have the righteousness of God IN THEIR unrighteousness.

And this is self-righteousness...an imputation of righteousness to oneself...and not just a human righteousness like Abel, no, these claim to be far greater than Abel by imputing God's righteousness to themselves. A crime that will see God's wrath.

One could always repent, humble oneself and stop being more like Cain than Abel ....by attacking the righteous.

Heb 11:4
By FAITH Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh.

You know, the very first verse of this chapter tells us what faith is as I’ve pointed out before in previous conversation with you:

Heb 11:1-2
Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
For by it the elders obtained a good report.

What you disdainfully call imagination and “hopium”. God forgive you.

 

[ProDeo]

For me, true humility is to know and accept the unvarnished truth about one's self, which also results in contrition, sorrow over one's state. These are not the sorts of things one tends to brag about.

Much love!

Know Thyself.

Ps 139:23 Search me, O God, and know my heart! Try me and know my thoughts!
Ps 139:24 And see if there be any grievous way in me, and lead me in the way everlasting!

May reveal.

Or learn by failure.

 

[Behold]

Go as someone who desperately needs to escape a futile life of pretensions.

Your Legalistic theology is proven to be futile pretensions.

You are a Calvinist who teaches that Paul's Gospel is a "delusion".

Now....et me show you this.. also.

Salvation has some parts to it.
The Main part is....Jesus said..."you must be born again".
So, being born again, has some part to it.....its not some some esoteric concept, its a MUST HAVE, or you go to Hell when you die.
Its really that simple.

Being born again, has 3 Parts.

1.) The Cross of Christ forgives all your sin..... that is the "blood atonement".

2.) "imputed Righteousnes" is required as God is about to join Himself to the Born Again Spirit in the believer and so His righteousness is required for them to have before He will join Himself to them "Spiritually".

3.) Born again.........so, not that they are forigven, and "Made righteous"......God joins Himself to them giving them a spiritual birth, that creates them to be a "new creation IN CHRIST">....... "one with GOD".

See that? That is spiritual union regained with God, that Adam lost for us all.

Welcome to Salvation.........its a <eternal reconciliation> = "GIFT" from God.

 

[Behold]

Heb 11:4
By FAITH Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh.

The verse you posted is a Bullseye.

So, add this to your knowledge.

There is "the way of Cain".........and that is Cain trying to give God a sacrifice of works.......which God rejected.
ABEL, gave God the blood, (from his flock, from the "firstborn)... and God accepted ABEL.

So, "the way of CAIN".. is a person who is trying by SELF RIGHTEOUSNESS....= trying to make themselves righteous before God by their works, and God rejects them because God only accepts the Blood of Jesus to accept anyone.

Therefore, all these Legalist, like Episkopos, who are trying to "work righteousness" to try to get God to accept them...... while they deny the Gospel of "God's gift of Righteousness"..........are : "the way of CAIN"... and they dont realize it.

 

[marks]

So, the question has been as to how to bridge this gap between the reality of the possibility of the loss of justification if you don't walk in faith and love (Ro 14:23) with the reality that you are justified by faith and not "works of the Law" (Ro 5:1),

As I understand your question, it is,

How is it that we are justified by faith alone, while at the same time we can lose that justification if we fail to walk in trust and love?

At the end of the day we are justified in one of three ways:

1. As a result of Jesus' obedient act of righteousness on the cross.

2. As a result of Jesus' obedient act of righteousness on the cross combined with my acts of obedience now.

3. As a result of my acts of obedience now.

For me the only answer is #1, entirely from Jesus, nothing from me.

Much love!

 

[marks]

The thing is Epi, your scoldings erase the message you are trying to communicate, because what people remember are the insults.

What does it say about someone's doctrine when they themselves do not exhibit the Spirit's fruit? The Bible is pretty clear throughout, I think, that words and actions (in this case, one's claims, and one's other words to others) should agree. The man who claims spirituality, which continuing in fleshy behavior, there's a real question there!

Much love!

 

[Behold]

So, the question has been as to how to bridge this gap between the reality of the possibility of the loss of justification if you don't walk in faith

A sinner is not "walking in faith", when they are initially given by God, eternal salvaiton.
They were only "walking in sin" their whole life, and now......God has taken them, as His own......not because of their works or walk of faith....but because they gave God their faith in Christ.. as a sinner.

"Jesus came into the world to save SINNERS".

HERE : = "While we were YET SINNERS, Christ died for us."""

Understand?

God does not give Salvaiton for a WALK of FAITH or a LIFE of Works.

God give SALVATION to a SINNER, who ONE TIME....gives God their Faith in Christ, and their "faith is counted by God, as (Christ's) Righteousness"...

= The "imputed righteousness of Faith".

Just look at Abraham....., God accepted His faith, to give Him Righteousness..

This is God's "GRACE......through Faith"........not through the walk of faith......but the faith of a SINNER, is accepted, instantly, and God forigives them, and gives them "imputed Righteousness".

No WORKS yet.
No Walk of faith yet.

This is GOD....who "JUSTIFIES THE UNGODLY"......."who worketh not"......because they have done God's will.

God's will is that "you BELIEVE In/on JESUS...whom God sent".

"Justification BY Faith"

 

[GracePeace]

As I understand your question, it is,

How is it that we are justified by faith alone, while at the same time we can lose that justification if we fail to walk in trust and love?

At the end of the day we are justified in one of three ways:

1. As a result of Jesus' obedient act of righteousness on the cross.

2. As a result of Jesus' obedient act of righteousness on the cross combined with my acts of obedience now.

3. As a result of my acts of obedience now.

For me the only answer is #1, entirely from Jesus, nothing from me.

Much love!

The question has been as to how to not close my eyes to Scripture (the many things I cited), and, yes, it does seem the correct answer is "Christ alone, not anything of me", at which point you're with Him, which is a good place to be, since "apart from Me, you can do nothing", and the life lived by the person who asserts "Christ alone" is lived IN that gift of justification and peace, it does not earn it, even though sin (either switching from "Christ alone", or instances of not walking with Him in that free gift of His love by walking in that freedom / faith) can compromise the free gift of the right standing (by "Christ alone"), and those things a believer does are not him but the grace with him (1 Co 15), the free gift of the life of Christ ("that we might live through Him") or the gift of righteousness.

 

[marks]

The question has been as to how to not close my eyes to Scripture (the many things I cited), and, yes, it does seem the correct answer is "Christ alone, not anything of me", at which point you're with Him, which is a good place to be, since "apart from Me, you can do nothing", and the life lived by the person who asserts "Christ alone" is lived IN that gift of justification and peace, it does not earn it, even though sin (either switching from "Christ alone", or instances of not walking with Him in that free gift of His love by walking in that freedom / faith) can compromise the free gift of the right standing (by "Christ alone"), and those things a believer does are not him but the grace with him (1 Co 15), the free gift of the life of Christ ("that we might live through Him") or the gift of righteousness.

even though sin ( . . . ) can compromise the free gift of the right standing

This statement puts you squarely on #2,

2. As a result of Jesus' obedient act of righteousness on the cross combined with my acts of obedience now.

When you say, "can compromise the free gift of the right standing", would it be more accurate from your POV to say that "sin will remove the free gift of right standing"?

Much love!

 

[GracePeace]

even though sin ( . . . ) can compromise the free gift of the right standing

This statement puts you squarely on #2,

2. As a result of Jesus' obedient act of righteousness on the cross combined with my acts of obedience now.

When you say, "can compromise the free gift of the right standing", would it be more accurate from your POV to say that "sin will remove the free gift of right standing"?

Much love!

No, it's Christ alone, and sin (defined in Ro 14:5,23) interrupts that relationship that is always and only a gift.

 

[marks]

No, it's Christ alone, and sin (defined in Ro 14:5,23) interrupts that relationship that is always and only a gift.

Interupts in what way?

Much love!

 

[soberxp]

Teaching - Salvation - The Greatest Exchange By David Campbell

Salvation – The Greatest Exchange This resource is written to help you see salvation as more than a religious word or ritual. It’s about God’s rescue plan for real people living in a real world, right now. In the pages below you’ll find a clear, Bible-saturated explanation of what salvation is...

www.christianityboard.com

@GracePeace
@marks

 

[GracePeace]

Interupts in what way?

Much love!

1. Not in any way (it should not be taken in any way) that should cause anyone to be removed from their faith and profession of "Christ alone".

2. In the sense that they're "condemned" (not "justified") according to Ro 14:23.

 

[marks]

1. Not in any way (it should not be taken in any way) that should cause anyone to be removed from their faith and profession of "Christ alone".

2. In the sense that they're "condemned" (not "justified") according to Ro 14:23.

The Christian who commits sin is no longer justified, and is returned to condemnation, though they are still "in their faith"?

Maybe I don't understand what you mean by "not . . . to be removed from their faith", do you mean that they continue in "saving faith?"

Much love!

 

[marks]

Teaching - Salvation - The Greatest Exchange By David Campbell

Salvation – The Greatest Exchange This resource is written to help you see salvation as more than a religious word or ritual. It’s about God’s rescue plan for real people living in a real world, right now. In the pages below you’ll find a clear, Bible-saturated explanation of what salvation is...

www.christianityboard.com

@GracePeace
@marks

Was there something in particular you wanted to highlight here?

Much love!

 

[shepherdsword]

@Episkopos let's see if I have a clue:

1)wicked-destiny is lake of fire.no attempt at a walk with God
2)unrighteous-destiny is outer darkness. attempted to walk with God but could not enter in,
3)Righteous-(meek)will inherit the earth. walked with God on a human level
4)Holy-will inherit heaven, walked with God and entered the perfected walk of Zion

 

[soberxp]

Was there something in particular you wanted to highlight here?

Much love!

All about it, pls take some time to read.

Much love in Christ.

 

[GracePeace]

The Christian who commits sin is no longer justified, and is returned to condemnation, though they are still "in their faith"?

Well, the text says they broke faith, so to describe them as "in their faith" would not fit the language, so, obviously, the justification and peace by righteousness of faith is compromised.

Maybe I don't understand what you mean by "not . . . to be removed from their faith", do you mean that they continue in "saving faith?"

Much love!

Anything that comes later (eg, justification being compromised by sin, but not gained, as if it is not already had, by continuing in faith) cannot be construed so as to change the trust in Christ alone.

 

[Behold]

@Episkopos let's see if I have a clue:

1)wicked-destiny is lake of fire.no attempt at a walk with God

All sinners who are not born again are perceived by God as 'wicked".

They are a : John 3:36 "Damned"

2)unrighteous-destiny is outer darkness. attempted to walk with God but could not enter in,

All sinners who are not born again, are "unrighteous" as they have not received from God His "Gift of Righteousness" that is the "imputed righteousness of God..

They are a : John 3:39 .."Damned"

3)Righteous-(meek)will inherit the earth. walked with God on a human level

Every Christian is "made righteous"... and has been born again Spiritually, so they are "In Christ"

4)Holy-will inherit heaven, walked with God and entered the perfected walk of Zion

Every Born again Christian is "One with God"'........and has been "translated from Darkness TO LIGHT"..
This means that they are become a Child of the "LIGHT" already, because they are "IN CHRIST" and Christ is the "LIGHT of The World".
The born again are eternally connected to GOD....>"who exists IN "LIGHT"".

See that ""LIGHT". ?????........ that is the KOG........and that is why all born again Christians are "seated in HEAVENLY Places".. In the KOG..right now.
Not later., but right now. = "In Christ".

 

[GracePeace]

The Christian who commits sin is no longer justified, and is returned to condemnation, though they are still "in their faith"?

Maybe I don't understand what you mean by "not . . . to be removed from their faith", do you mean that they continue in "saving faith?"

Much love!

Well, the text says they broke faith, so to describe them as "in their faith" would not fit the language, so, obviously, the justification and peace by righteousness of faith is compromised.

Anything that comes later (eg, justification being compromised by sin, but not gained, as if it is not already had, by continuing in faith) cannot be construed so as to change the trust in Christ alone.

To object, "No, I don't do anything to justify myself," is to overlook "I was abundant in labors above them all, yet, not I, but the grace with me" : only when a person does not continue in faith is that "them" asserting themselves, "doing something", but walking in faith is not them doing it, but grace, so "they" are not justifying "themselves" by what they do (they can only add what leads to condemnation), just continuing to enjoy the rest by the gift of having been justified they had been given through faith in "Christ alone".