Can any of you link or share a good argument against FULL preterism?

[HealthyShape]

1.) The surrounding context talks about death in the flesh/life in the spirit (vs 1-8), AND the future glory of the redemption of our bodies (vs 12-25).

2.) “Kai” in vs 11 is translated as likewise or also, indicating a parallel: just as Jesus was raised from the dead by the Spirit, so LIKEWISE your mortal bodies will be given life by the Spirit dwelling in you.

2.) “will give life” (vs 11 ), in reference to mortal bodies, is a future tense verb. “Dwelling”, in regards to the “spirit who dwells in you”, at the end of vs 11, is a substantival participle (present participle active) due to the article tou preceding it.

All together, with context, grammar, and syntax, vs 11 can be understood as: your mortal bodies will be given life in the future by the Spirit, that is presently dwelling within you, like how Christ was raised from the dead by the same Spirit.

I’m not so sure the regeneration argument for vs 11 is more convincing than the resurrection argument.

The surrounding context:
- the Law powerless because of the flesh (8:3)
- we do not live according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit (8:4)
- the mind governed by the flesh is death, hostile to God etc. (8:6, 8:7)
- those who are in the realm of the flesh cannot please God (8:8)
- we are not in the realm of flesh, but in the realm of the Spirit (8:9)

Then comes the formulation:
...ζωοποιήσει καὶ τὰ θνητὰ σώματα ὑμῶν...
(will make your mortal bodies to live)

And then Paul continues on with his anti-flesh doctrine:
- our obligation is not to the flesh (8:12)
- not to live according to the flesh (8:13)
- who lives according to the flesh will die etc.

So, placing a physical resurrection sentence into the middle of this seems a bit out of place. But I agree that the sentence as such looks to be about resurrection.

 

[rwb]

Alright, here’s the reality, all of us, Premil, Amill, and preterist, use secular information when looking at the Bible.

Is the earth flat? Well the church use to think so based solely on Biblical verses. The overwhelming amount of secular information points to a spherical earth, so much so that anyone who would even try to claim a flat earth is going to be looked upon as an unintelligent person or someone who is attempting to deceive others.

Since your Amill, you have to look at secular information in order for the day of the Lord not to come upon you as a thief. Also you have to compare the secular information against what the Bible says to determine if Satan has been loosed or not.

The problem is you’re not willing to consider secular information if it goes against your beliefs. You just make the claim that you’re only using what’s written in the Bible. Guess what, the Bible doesn’t say the earth is round, it says the earth has four corners. That’s why the argument that we should always only use the Bible is flawed. We need to use common sense.

You wish to change the subject, because you realize the futility of informing your biblical doctrine on secular resources. I don't have to use secular resources to prove what is biblically true. That's how I know that Amillennialism is the only end time doctrine that brings harmony to all of God's Word, rather than confusion and contradiction as these other end time doctrines do. The resources I do use are Bible Concordances and Bible dictionaries that aid, not compete with our understanding of Bible languages. I also use commentaries to confirm that I have not arrived at a conclusion that finds no support from the Bible.

And lastly, not for further discussion of the topic but FYI. Anyone believing the Bible suggests the earth is flat, appears not to be very familiar with the Bible.

Several Bible verses imply that the Earth is round, reflecting a deeper understanding of creation and God's design.

Key Verses​

1. Isaiah 40:22: “It is he who sits above the circle of the earth, and its inhabitants are like grasshoppers; who stretches out the heavens like a curtain, and spreads them like a tent to dwell in.”
2. Job 26:10: “He has inscribed a circle on the face of the waters at the boundary between light and darkness.”
3. Proverbs 8:27: “When he established the heavens, I was there; when he drew a circle on the face of the deep.”
4. Psalm 104:5: “The LORD established the earth upon its foundations, so it will never move.”
5. Isaiah 42:5: “Thus says God the LORD, who created the heavens and stretched them out, who spread out the earth and what comes from it.”

 

[claninja]

You, too, are missing the difference between the two statements I made. And I know it's because you two don't like me because of my disdain for your false preterist doctrine and you wish so badly to be able to say "Gotcha!" to me. Keep trying.

That’s quite the dramatic assumption.

In one case, there is no historical or scientific evidence offered to back up a claim and in the other one, there is. In the case where there is scientific evidence offered, why would you choose to believe secular scientists over scripture?

I’ll rely on peer-reviewed and well-replicated scientific research any day over some random internet person’s personal interpretation of scripture that ignores proper hermeneutics, such as grammar, syntax, context, historical setting, audience relevance, as well as ignores the scholarly and theological consensus on definitions and usages of words, just because it doesn’t fit their overall eschatological framework.


That being said:

I think it’s important to recognize that the early authors and editors of the Bible wrote from an Ancient Near Eastern (ANE) cosmological perspective — one that included concepts such as a crystalline dome in the sky, pillars of the earth, waters below, and Sheol. This cosmological framework differs significantly from our modern scientific understanding of the world. Therefore, the account of the flood in the Bible should probably be understood as describing a flood that encompassed the entire cosmological worldview of the ANE, rather than a flood covering the entire globe as we conceive it today. From a modern cosmological standpoint, science does not support the occurrence of such a global flood. However, “Secular science” does support the possibility of a massive local/regional flood, which is consistent with the ANE cosmological worldview. So when the Bible says the whole earth flooded, it’s from a completely different cosmological view than we hold today.

As to the coming of the son of man on clouds of the Olivet discourse, I absolutely agree “secular science” does not support a literal, physical, and bodily descension of Jesus in the first century, anymore than it can support God descending from heaven to judge the nations multiple times in the OT.

 

[claninja]

That's one of the problems with Preterits! You want to argue from Scripture except when Scripture doesn't fit your doctrine. Then you appeal to secular sources. SI makes an argument for the flood being universal based upon what is written in the Word of God. Equally he makes an argument that Christ did not come in 70 AD because that is NOWHERE found in the Word of God. IOW his doctrine is informed upon what sayeth the Bible, and not what sayeth Josephus and other secular sources!

It’s important to take into account historical setting and audience relevance when reading scripture. For example, the ancient near east writers and editors of the Bible most likely had a much different cosmological view of the world than we do today. To them, the Mesopotamian land, was the “whole world”. While there is no “secular science” to support a global flood according to our modern day cosmological world view, there is “secular science” that supports a catastrophic regional flood for the ANE cosmological worldview of the Bible.

As to the coming of the son of man on the clouds of the Olivet discourse, Jesus said “this generation would not pass away until all these things occur”. So how do you negotiate with this text, grammatically or contextually, or linguistically to argue it doesn’t actually mean Jesus would come on the clouds within the first century generation?

 

[JLB]

I am studying preterism and while I think some of what is claimed by full preterists is true I'm not inclined to believe that all of the prophecies have been fulfilled. In other words, I'm on the proverbial fence. I appreciate any good insights that you can share. Thank you in advance!

Do you believe everything in the Bible in the way of prophecy was fulfilled in 70 AD?


Example:


“Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. Matthew 24:29-31



For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17



Do you believe the resurrection of the dead in Christ is past?


Do you believe people have been given the resurrected bodies like the angels have?


Do you understand that to be resurrected from the dead you have to physically die first?

 

[rwb]

It’s important to take into account historical setting and audience relevance when reading scripture. For example, the ancient near east writers and editors of the Bible most likely had a much different cosmological view of the world than we do today. To them, the Mesopotamian land, was the “whole world”. While there is no “secular science” to support a global flood according to our modern day cosmological world view, there is “secular science” that supports a catastrophic regional flood for the ANE cosmological worldview of the Bible.

As to the coming of the son of man on the clouds of the Olivet discourse, Jesus said “this generation would not pass away until all these things occur”. So how do you negotiate with this text, grammatically or contextually, or linguistically to argue it doesn’t actually mean Jesus would come on the clouds within the first century generation?

Why would I or you for that matter use secular science to support a global flood in the time of Noah? The Bible itself tells us the flood of Noah's time was global for it covered the earth with water, so that everything that was on the earth with the breath of life perished. So it shall also be when Christ comes again. Only at the coming of Christ everything with life upon the whole earth shall perish by fire.

Genesis 6:17
Verse Concepts
Behold, I, even I am bringing the flood of water upon the earth, to destroy all flesh in which is the breath of life, from under heaven; everything that is on the earth shall perish.

Genesis 7:6-24
Now Noah was six hundred years old when the flood of water came upon the earth. Then Noah and his sons and his wife and his sons’ wives with him entered the ark because of the water of the flood. Of clean animals and animals that are not clean and birds and everything that creeps on the ground

2 Peter 2:5
Verse Concepts
and did not spare the ancient world, but preserved Noah, a preacher of righteousness, with seven others, when He brought a flood upon the world of the ungodly;

Genesis 8:9
Verse Concepts
but the dove found no resting place for the sole of her foot, so she returned to him into the ark, for the water was on the surface of all the earth. Then he put out his hand and took her, and brought her into the ark to himself.

Luke 17:27
Verse Concepts
they were eating, they were drinking, they were marrying, they were being given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, and the flood came and destroyed them all.

2 Peter 3:6
Verse Concepts
through which the world at that time was destroyed, being flooded with water.

Genesis 9:11
Verse Concepts
I establish My covenant with you; and all flesh shall never again be cut off by the water of the flood, neither shall there again be a flood to destroy the earth.”

Genesis 9:15
Verse Concepts
and I will remember My covenant, which is between Me and you and every living creature of all flesh; and never again shall the water become a flood to destroy all flesh.

Isaiah 54:9
Verse Concepts
“For this is like the days of Noah to Me,
When I swore that the waters of Noah
Would not flood the earth again;
So I have sworn that I will not be angry with you
Nor will I rebuke you.

Genesis 10:1
Verse Concepts
Now these are the records of the generations of Shem, Ham, and Japheth, the sons of Noah; and sons were born to them after the flood.

Genesis 10:32
Verse Concepts
These are the families of the sons of Noah, according to their genealogies, by their nations; and out of these the nations were separated on the earth after the flood.

Matthew 24:39
Verse Concepts
and they did not understand until the flood came and took them all away; so will the coming of the Son of Man be.

Genesis 8:1
Verse Concepts
But God remembered Noah and all the beasts and all the cattle that were with him in the ark; and God caused a wind to pass over the earth, and the water subsided.

Source: 13 Bible verses about Noah's Flood

To understand what Christ meant when He spoke of "this generation" that would not perish, you have to understand that He was making a distinction between an evil generation, and His chosen generation.

 

[MatthewG]

This is not an argument, but this is just a faithful testimony concerning the 1st century bride of Christ.

 

[HealthyShape]

@rwb Bible uses global language for events that obviously were not global. For example:

Now there were staying in Jerusalem God-fearing Jews from every nation under heaven.
Acts 2:5

This is the gospel that you heard and that has been proclaimed to every creature under heaven, and of which I, Paul, have become a servant.
Col 1:23

But I ask: Did they not hear? Of course they did: “Their voice has gone out into all the earth, their words to the ends of the world.”
R 10:28

 

[rwb]

@rwb Bible uses global language for events that obviously were not global. For example:

Now there were staying in Jerusalem God-fearing Jews from every nation under heaven.
Acts 2:5

This is the gospel that you heard and that has been proclaimed to every creature under heaven, and of which I, Paul, have become a servant.
Col 1:23

But I ask: Did they not hear? Of course they did: “Their voice has gone out into all the earth, their words to the ends of the world.”
R 10:28

When Christ came to earth a man, it was the beginning for the gospel of the Kingdom of God being proclaimed unto all the nations of the whole world as we find it is and shall be. God-fearing JEWS were limited to those staying in Jerusalem, because knowledge of the eternal Kingdom of God that would come when Messiah came was only known to those of faith through the Law of God and the Prophets of Old that was given exclusively to Israel of Old. This is why those living in every nation under heaven are God-fearing JEWS. "Every nation under heaven" to those living then is listed as follows. We know all every nation under heaven also includes Gentile nations not listed below.

Acts 2:6-11 (KJV) Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language. And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans? And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born? Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia, Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes, Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God.

These devout Jews before the first advent of Christ could not imagine that Gentiles as well as Jews, every nation, tribe, kindred, and tongue must also hear the message of the gospel of the Kingdom of God that they too would be eternally saved when they believe in Christ.

Matthew 10:5-6 (KJV) These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not: But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Romans 1:16 (KJV) For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

It wasn't until after they received the Spirit sent from Christ that the saints would be sent not only throughout Judaea, but also unto the Gentile nations of the earth.

Acts 1:8 (KJV) But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.

When the gospel of the Kingdom of God has accomplished the purpose for which it is sent unto the ends of the earth, then shall the seventh/last trumpet begin to sound that time for sending the gospel unto ALL peoples of the earth shall be no longer, the Kingdom of God in heaven shall be complete and Christ shall come again.

 

[HealthyShape]

When Christ came to earth a man, it was the beginning for the gospel of the Kingdom of God being proclaimed unto all the nations of the whole world as we find it is and shall be. God-fearing JEWS were limited to those staying in Jerusalem, because knowledge of the eternal Kingdom of God that would come when Messiah came was only known to those of faith through the Law of God and the Prophets of Old that was given exclusively to Israel of Old. This is why those living in every nation under heaven are God-fearing JEWS. "Every nation under heaven" to those living then is listed as follows. We know all every nation under heaven also includes Gentile nations not listed below.

Acts 2:6-11 (KJV) Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language. And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans? And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born? Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia, Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes, Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God.

These devout Jews before the first advent of Christ could not imagine that Gentiles as well as Jews, every nation, tribe, kindred, and tongue must also hear the message of the gospel of the Kingdom of God that they too would be eternally saved when they believe in Christ.

Matthew 10:5-6 (KJV) These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not: But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Romans 1:16 (KJV) For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

It wasn't until after they received the Spirit sent from Christ that the saints would be sent not only throughout Judaea, but also unto the Gentile nations of the earth.

Acts 1:8 (KJV) But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.

When the gospel of the Kingdom of God has accomplished the purpose for which it is sent unto the ends of the earth, then shall the seventh/last trumpet begin to sound that time for sending the gospel unto ALL peoples of the earth shall be no longer, the Kingdom of God in heaven shall be complete and Christ shall come again.

I am not sure what is exactly your point. If you agree that the biblical terms in the verses I posted like "all nations, all creatures, under heaven, whole earth" are not literal, then fine.

And similarly, the seemingly global language about Flood or in Peter's terminology do not need to be global also literally.

 

[rwb]

I am not sure what is exactly your point. If you agree that the biblical terms in the verses I posted like "all nations, all creatures, under heaven, whole earth" are not literal, then fine.

And similarly, the seemingly global language about Flood or in Peter's terminology do not need to be global also literally.

The point is that for your doctrine to be true, you attempt to force the Bible to confirm what sayeth the Preterit! You have no real interest in what sayeth the Word of God, because the Word of God does NOT prove what you promote! It is only for your doctrine to fit your vivid imagination that these things recorded are not literal to the Preterit. And since you've been shown why by many again and again, it is clear that you desire only to promote and defend that which is not defendable FROM the Word of God, which is why you must read your doctrine INTO the Word of God.

 

[claninja]

Why would I or you for that matter use secular science to support a global flood in the time of Noah?

i wouldn’t, so I don’t know what the point of the question was.

The Bible itself tells us the flood of Noah's time was global for it covered the earth with water, so that everything that was on the earth with the breath of life perished.

Your argument assumes the Biblical authors had the same cosmological world view that we have today. Such is not the case as evidenced by OT passages that use ANE cosmological concepts - circle of the earth, the firmament, pillars of the earth, waters above and below, Sheol, etc….

The Bible “says the whole earth flooded”, but that would be according to an ancient near east cosmological worldview, and NOT how we view cosmology today as a result of science.

In other words, when Genesis says the “whole earth” flooded, that reflects the ancient Near Eastern understanding of the world — the Mesopotamian region - which to them was the “entire earth” according to the ancient near eastern cosmological view.

historical context and audience relevance are important tools for proper hermeneutics.

To understand what Christ meant when He spoke of "this generation" that would not perish, you have to understand that He was making a distinction between an evil generation, and His chosen generation.

The majority of biblical translations translate genea into the English world generation in Matthew 24:34.

The majority of concordances and lexicons have genea, in the context of Matthew 24:34, to mean a group of people living at the same time.

I have no idea where you are getting the definition and usage to mean a distinction between an evil and chosen generation.

 

[HealthyShape]

The point is that for your doctrine to be true, you attempt to force the Bible to confirm what sayeth the Preterit! You have no real interest in what sayeth the Word of God, because the Word of God does NOT prove what you promote! It is only for your doctrine to fit your vivid imagination that these things recorded are not literal to the Preterit. And since you've been shown why by many again and again, it is clear that you desire only to promote and defend that which is not defendable FROM the Word of God, which is why you must read your doctrine INTO the Word of God.

Well, you have been shown many verses. When your "explaining out" does not work, you quickly switch to posts like this - nothing of substance, just your religious rants.

 

[rwb]

Your argument assumes the Biblical authors had the same cosmological world view that we have today. Such is not the case as evidenced by OT passages that use ANE cosmological concepts - circle of the earth, the firmament, pillars of the earth, waters above and below, Sheol, etc….

The Bible “says the whole earth flooded”, but that would be according to an ancient near east cosmological worldview, and NOT how we view cosmology today as a result of science.

In other words, when Genesis says the “whole earth” flooded, that reflects the ancient Near Eastern understanding of the world — the Mesopotamian region - which to them was the “entire earth” according to the ancient near eastern cosmological view.

historical context and audience relevance are important tools for proper hermeneutics.

My understanding comes from knowing with blessed assurance that "no prophecy of the Scripture is of any private interpretation. For the prophecy came not in old by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost." His Word is a sure word of prophecy as a shining light. Because "All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: that the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works."

2 Peter 1:19-21 (KJV) We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts: Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

2 Timothy 3:16 (KJV) All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
2 Timothy 3:17 (KJV) That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

Your unbiblical doctrine screams for us to believe you when you tell us the holy men of God who authored the written Word of God could not understand what they wrote because they lived in ancient times. You have very little knowledge and comprehension of what is written, because God does not give mankind a message that must be massaged according to the period of time in which we live. For all of the created things of God, from the beginning of the world give revelation to the invisible, and eternal power and Godhead. The Word of God is unchanging, the same yesterday, today and tomorrow, so you who try to change the Word of God to force fit your unbiblical doctrine are without excuse, because knowing God is, you do not glorify as God the Creator of all things, and have become vain in your imaginations, and in danger of a darkened heart that refuses to receive truth. You turn the Pure, True Word of God into a lie to support your lying doctrines.

Romans 1:20-21 (KJV) For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

 

[NotTheRock]

Do you believe everything in the Bible in the way of prophecy was fulfilled in 70 AD?

No.

 

[HealthyShape]

Let us stop repeating the nonsense that preterism is something forced into the text because preterists want it to be read that way or that it is a lack of knowledge etc.

Preterism is the neutral reading of the text of the New Testament, without bias and without forcing something we want into the text.

---
Q: If you read the text of the New Testament, without any theological bias and without forcing any personal ideas into the text, what would be the most objective reading of eschatology: futurism, historicism or preterism? Just one sentence answer.

AI
Reading the New Testament textually and without theological presuppositions most objectively supports preterism.
---

The NT simply teaches that everything will happen in the 1st century generation. We need to deal with it. Some accept it even though they do not see everything to happen in history as they would expect, some try to twist the verses or ignore them and switch to religious dogmatic rant instead.

 

[JLB]

The NT simply teaches that everything will happen in the 1st century generation.

Please show me in the New Testament where Jesus went and fought against those who came against Jerusalem?



Behold, the day of the LORD is coming,
And your spoil will be divided in your midst.
For I will gather all the nations to battle against Jerusalem;
The city shall be taken,
The houses rifled,
And the women ravished.
Half of the city shall go into captivity,
But the remnant of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
Then the LORD will go forth
And fight against those nations,
As He fights in the day of battle.
And in that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives,
Which faces Jerusalem on the east.
And the Mount of Olives shall be split in two,
From east to west,
Making a very large valley;
Half of the mountain shall move toward the north
And half of it toward the south.
Then you shall flee through My mountain valley,
For the mountain valley shall reach to Azal.
Yes, you shall flee
As you fled from the earthquake
In the days of Uzziah king of Judah.
Thus the LORD my God will come,
And all the saints with You.
Zechariah 14:1-5



Did the Lord fight against the Roman soldiers who destroyed the temple and the city?

 

[HealthyShape]

Please show me in the New Testament where Jesus went and fought against those who came against Jerusalem?

The New Testament was written before the destruction of Jerusalem.

Did the Lord fight against the Roman soldiers who destroyed the temple and the city?

No. They were the judgement of the city and of the nation:

Therefore this generation will be held responsible for the blood of all the prophets that has been shed since the beginning of the world,
from the blood of Abel to the blood of Zechariah, who was killed between the altar and the sanctuary. Yes, I tell you, this generation will be held responsible for it all.
Lk 11:50-51

However, the Roman empire was overcome by Christianity in time and became the most influencing Christian empire in history.

Behold, the day of the LORD is coming,
And your spoil will be divided in your midst.
For I will gather all the nations to battle against Jerusalem;
The city shall be taken,
The houses rifled,
And the women ravished.
Half of the city shall go into captivity,
But the remnant of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
Then the LORD will go forth
And fight against those nations,
As He fights in the day of battle.
And in that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives,
Which faces Jerusalem on the east.
And the Mount of Olives shall be split in two,
From east to west,
Making a very large valley;
Half of the mountain shall move toward the north
And half of it toward the south.
Then you shall flee through My mountain valley,
For the mountain valley shall reach to Azal.
Yes, you shall flee
As you fled from the earthquake
In the days of Uzziah king of Judah.
Thus the LORD my God will come,
And all the saints with You.
Zechariah 14:1-5

I am more interested in the New Testament. But this does not seem to be about the final judgement over Israel. Jesus was talking against Jerusalem, not for defending it.

 

[JLB]

The New Testament was written before the destruction of Jerusalem.


No. They were the judgement of the city and of the nation:

Therefore this generation will be held responsible for the blood of all the prophets that has been shed since the beginning of the world,
from the blood of Abel to the blood of Zechariah, who was killed between the altar and the sanctuary. Yes, I tell you, this generation will be held responsible for it all.
Lk 11:50-51

However, the Roman empire was overcome by Christianity in time and became the most influencing Christian empire in history.



I am more interested in the New Testament. But this does not seem to be about the final judgement over Israel. Jesus was talking against Jerusalem, not for defending it.

Yes the New Testament scripture is what I’m asking for.


Please show me in the New Testament where Jesus went and fought against those who came against Jerusalem?



Behold, the day of the LORD is coming,
And your spoil will be divided in your midst.
For I will gather all the nations to battle against Jerusalem;
The city shall be taken,
The houses rifled,
And the women ravished.
Half of the city shall go into captivity,
But the remnant of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
Then the LORD will go forth
And fight against those nations,
As He fights in the day of battle.
And in that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives,
Which faces Jerusalem on the east.
And the Mount of Olives shall be split in two,
From east to west,
Making a very large valley;
Half of the mountain shall move toward the north
And half of it toward the south.
Then you shall flee through My mountain valley,
For the mountain valley shall reach to Azal.
Yes, you shall flee
As you fled from the earthquake
In the days of Uzziah king of Judah.
Thus the LORD my God will come,
And all the saints with You.
Zechariah 14:1-5



Did the Lord fight against the Roman soldiers who destroyed the temple and the city?

 

[grafted branch]

Then the LORD will go forth
And fight against those nations,
As He fights in the day of battle.

Maybe the nations that the Lord fights against are Sodom and Egypt.

Revelation 11:8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.