Thats True, Christs Death was only for the elect or sheep, never the goats
Doctrine of Predestination
- Thread starter Big Boy Johnson
- Start date
-
Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.
You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
David Lamb
Well-Known Member
Your Sproul quote is biblical. It is another way of saying what Jesus said, that He lay down His life for the sheep, those whom God the Father has given Him:
““But you do not believe, because you are not of My sheep, as I said to you. “My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. “And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. “My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch [them] out of My Father’s hand.” (Joh 10:26-29 NKJV)
This is what Sproul was saying, and it is from the Scriptures.
Last edited:
This is the million dollar question. Most in mans religions dont believe in this doctrine, or they believe it in a man centered way that deny the Sovereignty of God, but nevertheless its a Salvation Doctrine. In a book and chapter primarily about Salvation Paul writes Eph 1:3-6
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.
Rom 8:28-30
28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
There's no word of Salvation without predestination.
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.
Rom 8:28-30
28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
There's no word of Salvation without predestination.
1stCenturyLady
Well-Known Member
He has.
Isaiah 54:5
God cannot tempt anyone to sin. God chose and gave Judas to Jesus because of his lack of character.
Last edited:
1stCenturyLady
Well-Known Member
Paul is speaking of the Apostles. Verse 13 starts the part about the Ephesians. Verse 12 will show you. Don't pull verses out of context.
What is predestinated is what happens to a Christian. They are conformed to image of Christ. That is the sign of a true believer.
I love the truth that God has a purpose behind why He had Jesus die to redeem His chosen out humans which He elected and selected.
These have the purpose of revealing the manifold wisdom of God to the angels in this physical realm in this present age. (According to Paul)
And in the next age, these same chosen out humans will reign with Christ in His coming kingdom as kings and priests for 1000 years. (According to John).
But the greater news is that isn't the end of the God story because it is never ending.
A major twist awaits not only these elect but every created being.
Because ....the Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
Did Jesus die for the elect? Absolutely. Did He die for the rest? Absolutely. Will both groups repent and become beneficiaries of the death and resurrection of Jesus? Absolutely. Will all be redeemed by His blood. Absolutely.
I for one am excited for the next age when Jesus returns and rules over the earth with His select few. I'm excited for a future age when all the rest join with Him in His Father's kingdom.
False, not them alone, but all the People of God
Predestination took place before the believer exists as does election
Redemption and reconciliation through the sacrifice of God the Father's Lamb has no expiry date. It is available throughout every age. And it will be taken advantage of and will benefit every created being.
Yes, the Creators had a script prepared way before They created Their creations. They had an eternal purpose and plan fixed in Their mind.
In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will.
1stCenturyLady
Well-Known Member
John uses "key" words. It is a Semitic Writing Style you don't seem to be aware of. Not understanding the eastern style, but limiting yourself to a western reading habit, you and most of the Church have caused your false doctrine.
The key word is "give/given" and by the Father to Jesus. John 6, 10, and 17. He is speaking about His twelve disciples (and in one place says, "except Judas.")
If you had read the surrounding verses, there were many disciples who left Him when He spoke of eating His flesh and drinking His blood. So your belief grew legs. Or do you believe because once they believed they were saved for life, not matter what they do?
1stCenturyLady
Well-Known Member
Only the Apostles. Only the Jews were elected, but not all Jews are saved. Even Judas was predestined, BUT NOT SAVED.
, Salvation by Grace is only for a remnant, other wise the rest are predestined to hell
Predestination took place before the foundation, b4 we are born. We are born with our destiny predetermined by God
Taken
Well-Known Member
Doctrine of Predestination
Yes.
The “All knowing Mighty Creator”… already Knows a man BEFORE the man is born….
What AND When a man will Think, will Trust, will Believe, will Commit, will Reject…and PREPARES a “place for him”…
The man…
To BE MADE…eternally Alive With God…
OR
To BE MADE…eternally Dead Without God
AND remembered no more.
The Conundrum… For man…
He does NOT Know, UNTIL, he hears, thinks, learns, chooses, commits or rejects.
THEN he should KNOW (before his own death) his own eternal fate, as God has revealed by His Word.
Glory to God,
Taken
Yes.
The “All knowing Mighty Creator”… already Knows a man BEFORE the man is born….
What AND When a man will Think, will Trust, will Believe, will Commit, will Reject…and PREPARES a “place for him”…
The man…
To BE MADE…eternally Alive With God…
OR
To BE MADE…eternally Dead Without God
AND remembered no more.
The Conundrum… For man…
He does NOT Know, UNTIL, he hears, thinks, learns, chooses, commits or rejects.
THEN he should KNOW (before his own death) his own eternal fate, as God has revealed by His Word.
Glory to God,
Taken
Dan Clarkston
Well-Known Member
In other words.... the Lord allow LIES to be put in to His canon if we are to believe the calvinist heretics?
God predestined ALL to be saved, and then many allowed satan to blind their eyes to prevent them from seeing the Gospel
See - Romans 8:29-30, Romans 1:19-21, Titus 2:11-12, 1 John 2:2, 2 Peter 3:9, 1 Timothy 2:1-4, Acts 17:30, John 12:32, Hebrews 2:9, John 3:16, Matthew 5:6
The Lord tells us in His Word why not all are saved:
2 Corinthians 4:4
In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious
gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
Jesus tells us in His Word each person is responsible for finding the pathway that leads to life because they are without
excuse (Romans 1:19-21)
Matthew 7:14
Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leads unto life, and few there be that find it.
Sadly the calvinists claim Jesus is a liar since Jesus never taught calvinism and they specialize in twisting scripture as they are speaking in behalf of their father the devil
Here are those that end up being the elect:
Psalm 4:3
But know that the LORD hath set apart him that is godly for himself: the LORD will hear when I call unto him.
2 Timothy 2:21
If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honor, sanctified, and meet for the
master's use, and prepared unto every good work.
Galatians 5:1
Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke
of bondage.
Romans 6:16
Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether
of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
Those that turn away from walking in darkness and instead walk with the Lord and endure In Christ until, the end of their lives are the elect. Those that turn away from walking in darkness and instead walk with the Lord and endure In Christ until, the end of their lives are the elect.
This does not mean the Lord did not want all to be saved or that He has not provided salvation for all as the calvinists have been falsely taught by the devil.
So the Lord is the One that tricked Judas in to following the devil?
That's what the calvinists claim.... God caused all evil thing that happened to happen.
More calvinist lies and deception.
More calvinist lies and deception.
This is where the calvinists claim God created most people for no other purpose than to be tormented in hell for all eternity...
That's one of satan's favorite deception right there seeing it goes against what God says in His Word.
Maybe you too were predestined to hell and don't know it yet?
Some calvinists teach God allows some people to think they are saved but in the end He throws them in to hell.
How do you know you're not one of those folks?
Taken
Well-Known Member
God is All knowing. He knows every individual Before they are born AND their Fate.
Of course God desired ALL of His Creations would Choose to Trust and Believe IN Him.
All Shall See Him…and Believe.
But All will Not Be Saved.
Life of the Body is Blood.
Live of the Soul is Gods Breath.
Men must All choose their Belief BEFORE their Body’s Dies.
All dead bodies ( believers or not ) shall have their living Soul return to their bodies, see their God, bow , worship Him.
The believers shall be in their new bodies.
…and remain alive forever with God.
The unbelievers in their old bodies.
…and Life of their soul returns to God, and their lifeless body and lifeless soul destroyed in hell, forever without God and they remembered no more.
Glory to God,
Taken
Similar threads
