IF YOU BELIEVE WE CAN LOSE OUR SALVATION, PLEASE GIVE ME THE VERSE/VERSES THAT MAKE YOU BELIEVE THIS.
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Do you have all the signs here??????????..............................[Mar 16:17-18 KJV] 17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; 18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
What simply does Mk16 15:15-16 say??? That's all you need to know. Don't twist thing's to try to prove yourself right. You're not right
How is asking you to comment on a verse twisting?
Yes or no.............you must believe Mark 16 right?.................................[Mar 16:15-16 KJV] 15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. 16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
If you believe these verses on, what basis can you say that verse 17 is a verse we don't need to know?
If you believe verses 15 and 16 and apply them to yourself then you have to apply verses 17 and 18 as well
The question remains do you have these signs?...................................[Mar 16:17-18 KJV] 17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; 18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
1 Timothy 4:1-2
1 Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons, 2 speaking lies in hypocrisy, having their own conscience seared with a hot iron,
OSASers are trying to convince each other.
1 Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons, 2 speaking lies in hypocrisy, having their own conscience seared with a hot iron,
OSASers are trying to convince each other.
This does not answer if you have all the signs of Mark 16:17-18
This is a pretty straightforward question..........do you have all the signs of those who believe?
Why don't you answer?
Thats ok, You cant say you have all the signs in Mark 16:17-18 because Mark 16:15-16 doesn't apply to you either
The signs were the gifts, the manifestation of the Spirit, all of which have long ago ceased. So no, I do not have them, nor do you, nor does anyone else today. The gifts were promised to the 11 apostles and were enabled to others by them through the laying on of their hands.
The gifts of the Spirit you are referring to were given to the church, the body of Christ.
Here are the gifts...........................[1Co 12:8-10 KJV] 8 For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit; 9 To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit; 10 To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another [divers] kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:
The body of Christ was not formed in the Mark 16 time period. Mark 16:17-18 speaks of signs NOT GIFTS.
Let's compare them.....................................[Mar 16:17-18 KJV] 17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; 18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.........................the only two are the same would be tongues and healing so the others are not gifts of the Spirit
The signs in Mark are not the gifts of the Spirit.
You admit you don't have the signs of Mark 16:17-18 so why would you continue to say Mark 16:15-16 are said of you? Not only that, if you think water baptism saves you, that is a big problem.
Speaking in new tongues, healing? Are gifts or manifestations of the Spirit. And they are definitely signs to others. And the gifts were made manifest ONLY by the laying on of the apostle's hands; and yes, to the members of the body of Christ, but not automatically to everyone universally, but via the apostles, and they're dead! And read the parallel scriptures of the great commission, Matthew 28:16-20
I think the commandment of Mark 16:15-16 was interrupted by the dispensation of grace, and the signs in Mark 16:17-18 will be seen in the tribulation period. These signs were not given to us.
What do you see in Matthew 28:16-20 in relation to Mark 16?
1st, what is THE tribulation period? And both Mark 16 and Matt 28 relate in terms of preaching the Gospel to all nations/all the world and baptism of those that believe; the primary takeaways.
The tribulation period is described in Revelation. The persecution of Israel by the antichrist
Mark 16:15-18 applies to the twelve. They were commanded to obey this. This was interrupted by the dispensation of grace but resume in the tribulation. They were to preach the gospel of the kingdom and those who believed had to be baptized to enter the kingdom on earth.
Matthew 28:19 once again was a command to the disciples. This will be fulfilled after the kingdom on earth is established. They will teach the Gentile nations that have entered the kingdom.
I did some thinking and let me clarify what I said before that you would have to have ALL the signs in Mark 16:17-18. It may be that all of these signs will be exhibited by believers, but not all the signs will be manifested by an individual believer.
Who was Revelation written to? The 7 churches of Asia which is actually Asia minor, or Turkey. Revelation must then have has relevance to them, in their time. So, was "the tribulation" as you referred to it as, a future event to them or some futuristic event in our future? Was "the tribulation" the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD maybe? Read about it in the historical record as penned by Josephus. It was brutal and for sure a great tribulation.
And the kingdom on the earth was established with the beginning of the church in Jerusalem (Acts2) and then in Caesarea in Acts 10. So, the kingdom on the earth has already been established.
The great commission was addressed to the 11 (not the 12) but the message applied and was/is pertinent to all believers, then and now.
And it's clear that the signs and manifestations of the spirit are one in the same, enabled by the laying on of the apostle's hands, so, they are not present nor relevant to us today.
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I do not hold to the 70AD view
Jesus did make prophetic statements about the kingdom and the destruction of Jerusalem but made no connection to them
Revelation is in symbolism. And unless you know what the various symbols represent, you can't really decipher it/its meaning. It was meant to be read to the 7 churches of Asia, so, even they would not have understood without guidance as to what the symbols meant. But as a for instance, Revelation discusses the fall of Babylon, so what does that mean? The old city of Babylon? But in this case, the symbol is defined for us in Revelation 11:8. It's really referring to Jerusalem (where our Lord was crucified as stated). The rest of the symbols? Who really knows, but for sure, there is a definite connection between Revelation and the fall of Jerusalem in A.D 70.
FredVB
Member
God cannot be fooled and is all-knowing. Those God saves through Christ with their repentant faith are saved, and will come to the everlasting bliss with God.
