Rapture ... soon?

[rebuilder 454]

CHRIST did not say HE bound satan in prison in Matthew 12:28-29

You better go and read carefully

Proverbs 30:5-6
Every word of God is pure;
He is a shield to those who put their trust in Him.
Do not add to His words,
Lest He rebuke you, and you be found a liar.

Maybe Satan's chain is a few thousand miles long ????
Lol

 

[David in NJ]

Maybe Satan's chain is a few thousand miles long ????
Lol

Good one - ty

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

#1 - Matthew 12:28-29 = JESUS never says HE cast satan into prison

This will only occur at His 2nd Coming = Rev 20:1-4

Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, having the key to the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
He laid hold of the dragon, that serpent of old, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years; and he cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal on him, so that he should deceive the nations no more till the thousand years were finished. But after these things he must be released for a little while.

Matthew 12:28-29 = JESUS is declaring His Authority over satan and his demons to cast them out of people who are bound by them.

Then one was brought to Him who was demon-possessed, blind and mute; and He healed him, so that the blind and mute man both spoke and saw. 23And all the multitudes were amazed and said, “Could this be the Son of David?”

24Now when the Pharisees heard it they said, “This fellow does not cast out demons except by Beelzebub, the ruler of the demons.”

25But Jesus knew their thoughts, and said to them: “Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation, and every city or house divided against itself will not stand. 26If Satan casts out Satan, he is divided against himself. How then will his kingdom stand? 27And if I cast out demons by Beelzebub, by whom do your sons cast them out? Therefore they shall be your judges. 28But if I cast out demons by the Spirit of God, surely the kingdom of God has come upon you. 29Or how can one enter a strong man’s house and plunder his goods, unless he first binds the strong man? And then he will plunder his house. 30He who is not with Me is against Me, and he who does not gather with Me scatters abroad.

Do you not think that the strong man represents Satan and that Jesus is the one who bound the strong man and spoiled his goods and his house? If not, who do you think the strong man represents and what do you think his house represents and what do you think his goods represents?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Maybe Satan's chain is a few thousand miles long ????
Lol

It is described as "a great chain", which implies that it does not restrict Satan's activities entirely (a small chain would be far more restrictive), and the scene is symbolically represented as a dragon being chained up in a prison. Satan is not a physical being who can be literally chained up in a literal prison, so it has to be determined what is being symbolized there instead of taking it literally. But, a hyper-literalist like you can't understand this simple concept.

 

[David in NJ]

Do you not think that the strong man represents Satan and that Jesus is the one who bound the strong man and spoiled his goods and his house? If not, who do you think the strong man represents and what do you think his house represents and what do you think his goods represents?

In Matthew 12:22-30 , the strong man is the demon/spirit that has the individual bound.

In response to the pharisees, JESUS is transitioning from spirit language to that which pertains to our everyday living by which JESUS uses for our behalf to understand a unseen spiritual condition.

The strongman's house is the man/woman/child who is being oppressed by the evil.

The metaphor of both "house and goods":
a.) house: represents the individual person who is bound by evil
b.) goods: represents that which has value inside the house
c.) Satan is the king of the fallen angels = he is a single fallen arch angel of great power and authority
d.) It is the fallen angels/spirits under satan whom JESUS is casting out of people

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

We see in the Book of Hebrews that Jesus has not assumed full control over this world yet:

Hebrews 2:8
Thou hast put all things in subjection under His feet. for in that
He put all in subjection under Him, He left nothing that is not put
under Him. But now we see not yet all things put under Him

Do you just ignore the part of that verse that says God "put all things in subjection under His feet" and "left nothing that is not put under Him" long ago? How do you reconcile your understanding of the only part of the verse that you underlined and highlighted in large text with the rest of the verse which says that all things were put under Him long ago, which lines up with other scripture like Matthew 28:18 and Ephesians 1:19-22?

As I see it, there are only two viable explanations for that which would not cause Hebrews 2:8 to contradict itself.

First, it can be talking about the fact that all things were put under Him and are under Him, but it's not something we can see yet because He is in heaven and right now He does things through the power of the Spirit of Christ (Holy Spirit) and won't see until He comes again when we see Him as He is (1 John 3:1-2).

The other possible interpretation of the verse which doesn't cause a contradiction is that all current things that exist are under Him, but things that don't yet exist are not yet under Him, but will be under Him once they exist. That will be the case right up until the last enemy, death, is put under Him and is defeated, at which point all of His enemies will have been defeated (1 Cor 15:25-26).

 

[TribulationSigns]

In Matthew 12:22-30 , the strong man is the demon/spirit that has the individual bound.

False. The Strong Man is Satan, the ruler over the spiritual realm that keeps people under spiritual bondage.

The strongman's house is the man/woman/child who is being oppressed by the evil.

False. Please think. Before we were saved, we were all behind the gates of hell, slaves and captives in his house of bondage. His gates were what kept us captives, and it is Christ who prevailed over those gates for us, and as His representatives of His kingdom, we carry on His work to free captives as the church grows, "till he come." Selah!

The metaphor of both "house and goods":

a.) house: represents the individual person who is bound by evil spiritual bondage that kept God's people captivity.
b.) goods: represents that which has value inside the house people who are under spiritual captivity of Strong Man
c.) Satan is the king of the fallen angels = he is a single fallen arch angel of great power and authority Strong Man.
d.) It is the fallen angels/spirits under satan whom JESUS is casting out of people Christ freed his captives from spiritual bondage

This is a spiritual picture of God’s redemption plan for us. Jesus wasn’t teaching that people literally have some supernatural being inside them that must be “cast out” with dramatic signs like foaming at the mouth or screaming. No — what Christ did physically in the Gospels was a symbolic demonstration of His spiritual power to deliver humanity from sin, darkness, and bondage.

Every physical miracle pointed to a deeper spiritual truth:

• Physical blindness → Spiritual blindness to the truth of the Gospel.
• Physical deafness → Inability to hear or receive God’s Word.
• Lameness, leprosy, or disease → The spiritual sickness and corruption of sin.

All of these outward healings were signs revealing Christ’s divine authority to heal the soul, cleanse the heart, and restore us to fellowship with God. That is what His miracles were truly about — the power of redemption working through Him.
And guess what, Christ gave us the SAME AUTHORITY to do His Work within us to preach gospel and we did help them open their blindness to the Truth. Help them to open ear to the Truth. Help heal their spiritual sickness. Even went to their prision of spiritual bondage and help set them free as we share the Gospel with them despite some church thought that it means we need to go to physical prision to do our work. While it is good but this is not the point Christ was trying to tell us.

All of these outward healings were signs revealing Christ’s divine authority to heal the soul, cleanse the heart, and restore us to fellowship with God. That’s what His miracles were truly about — the power of redemption working through Him.


And guess what? Christ has given us that same authority — not to perform showy physical miracles, but to carry out His redemptive work within us and through us as we preach the Gospel.


When we share the truth of Christ, we help open the spiritually blind eyes so they can see the Gospel. We help open deaf ears so people can finally hear the truth. We help heal spiritual sickness by pointing others to the Great Physician.

We even go into the prison houses of spiritual bondage, setting captives free through the message of the cross — not by breaking into physical prisons (though visiting them is a good work), but by delivering those who are bound in sin and deception. Christ explained:
Mat 25:35-40
(35) For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
(36) Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
(37) Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
(38) When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
(39) Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
(40) And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.

See? This is the true meaning behind Jesus’ words. We help those who are spiritually hungry and thirsty by feeding them the Bread of Life and giving them the Living Water of the Gospel. We welcome the spiritual strangers into God’s household, bringing them into His fellowship. We cover the spiritually naked with the robe of Christ’s righteousness. We visit those who are spiritually sick, sharing the Gospel that brings healing to their souls. And we go to those imprisoned in spiritual bondage, proclaiming the truth that sets them free!

This is what it’s all about — the physical miracles Christ did points to His work within us to bring spiritual healing, deliverance, and freedom through the power of His Word and His Spirit.

We are His messengers, carrying His light into the darkness, helping to set the captives of Satan free, so that they too may be born again and become messengers of Christ, just as we are.

Amen?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

In Matthew 12:22-30 , the strong man is the demon/spirit that has the individual bound.

In response to the pharisees, JESUS is transitioning from spirit language to that which pertains to our everyday living by which JESUS uses for our behalf to understand a unseen spiritual condition.

The strongman's house is the man/woman/child who is being oppressed by the evil.

The metaphor of both "house and goods":
a.) house: represents the individual person who is bound by evil
b.) goods: represents that which has value inside the house
c.) Satan is the king of the fallen angels = he is a single fallen arch angel of great power and authority
d.) It is the fallen angels/spirits under satan whom JESUS is casting out of people

No, the strong man represents Satan and I will demonstrate that.

Yes, Jesus was casting demons out of people at that time, but the context of the verses is in relation to Satan's kingdom and His authority over Satan and his kingdom, including his angels/demons.

I'll quote the whole relevant passage for context so we can see what verses 28 and 29 mean in context.

Matthew 12:22 Then one was brought to Him who was demon-possessed, blind and mute; and He healed him, so that the blind and mute man both spoke and saw. 23 And all the multitudes were amazed and said, “Could this be the Son of David?” 24 Now when the Pharisees heard it they said, “This fellow does not cast out demons except by Beelzebub, the ruler of the demons.” 25 But Jesus knew their thoughts, and said to them: “Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation, and every city or house divided against itself will not stand. 26 If Satan casts out Satan, he is divided against himself. How then will his kingdom stand? 27 And if I cast out demons by Beelzebub, by whom do your sons cast them out? Therefore they shall be your judges. 28 But if I cast out demons by the Spirit of God, surely the kingdom of God has come upon you. 29 Or how can one enter a strong man’s house and plunder his goods, unless he first binds the strong man? And then he will plunder his house. 30 He who is not with Me is against Me, and he who does not gather with Me scatters abroad.

So, this all starts with Jesus casting a demon out of the demon-possessed, blind and mute man, resulting in the man being able to see and to speak. He was accused of doing this by the power of Beelzebub, another name for Satan (who else is the ruler of the demons but the devil, Satan - see Rev 12:9 and Matt 25:41 where they are called "his angels"). But, He pointed out if that was the case then Satan would be divided against himself and his kingdom would be divided, which is obviously not something Satan would want to do. He then pointed out that He did so by the Spirit of God, showing that the kingdom of God was present in a spiritual sense.

So, the context indicates that it's not just demons who are in view here, but also Satan himself and his kingdom. The ruler of the demons is Beelzebub/Satan. If you want to weaken Satan's kingdom, what is the first thing you'd want to do? Weaken the leader of the kingdom, which is Satan. If you bind their leader, then you bind them all because they follow his lead. So, the strong man represents Satan, his goods represent those who he has oppressed and led astray, like the demon-possessed man, and his house represents Satan's kingdom. One way that Jesus bound the strong man, Satan and spoiled his goods and his house was by setting demon-possessed people free, but that wasn't the only way He did that. He set many other people free from Satan's grasp as well who were not demon-possessed. He healed many physically to show that He cared about them, but He also showed them the truth spiritually to set them free spiritually. In doing so, he spoiled Satan's goods by delivering the people he oppressed from the power of Satan to God, as Jesus instructed Paul to do as well through the preaching of the gospel (Acts 26:16-18). Jesus spoiled the strong man's house, representing Satan's kingdom, by delivering people from Satan's grasp.

 

[GRACE ambassador]

...Jesus said it plainly: “one of you is a devil.” Notice, He did not say Judas was possessed by a devil...Michael (Christ) and His true messengers (Peter...

So, you are telling us "Judas was a devil"? Now what do you do with:

1) Michael (Christ) was God? As per: The LORD Jesus Christ Is Almighty God!
+
2) Peter is Satan? As per:

"he (Michael/Christ/God) turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan:"​

(Matthew 16:23 AV)​

​

Just wondering what's next?

 

[TribulationSigns]

So, you are telling us "Judas was a devil"?

Yes, as well as many people under Satan's bondage are considered as "devils," as we all were before we were born again with the Holy Spirit. Allow me to explain:

Eph 2:1-3
(1) And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
(2) Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
(3) Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

The prince of the power of the air is Satan. We were the children of disobedience and children of wrath as "devils". It is because we were spiritually dead and enslaved under Satan's influence, walking in sin as he directs the world.
Joh 8:44
(44) Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

Before regeneration, our spiritual parentage is not God, but the Devil. What it means is that we share his rebellious nature.
1Jn 3:9-10
(9) Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
(10) In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

Children of God = those born again through the Spirit of God.

Children of the devil = those still in the flesh, unregenerate, following sin.

Therefore, they are the devils because they have his spirit and do his will.

Now what do you do with:

1) Michael (Christ) was God? As per: The LORD Jesus Christ Is Almighty God!

Yes, and He is Archangel Michael! Here is one example of many... consider this verse wisely:

1st Thessalonians 4:16

• "For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:"

Christ is the One who descends, and the “voice of the archangel” is His own powerful voice — because He is the Chief Messenger of God. It’s not referring to some feathered angel assisting Him with a shout beside Him. That’s impossible! No "created angel" has the power to raise the dead. This shout and trumpet belong to God Himself, for it is the voice of Christ that commands life to return to the saints. So yes, God can be a messenger and He is our CHIEF messenger since we are his messengers (angels).

2) Peter is Satan? As per:

"he (Michael/Christ/God) turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan:"​

(Matthew 16:23 AV)​

Mat 16:21-23
(21) From that time forth began Jesus to shew unto his disciples, how that he must go unto Jerusalem, and suffer many things of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised again the third day.
(22) Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee.
(23) But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.

When Jesus said to Peter, “Get thee behind me, Satan,” He was not attacking Peter personally, but correcting the wrong belief behind Peter’s words. At that moment, Peter’s thinking was not guided by the Spirit of God, but by the spirit of Satan, his own rebellion spirit - - opposing God’s divine plan for the cross.

Peter’s heart was sincere, but his understanding was still carnal. He had not yet been born again by the Holy Spirit, which did not occur until Jesus breathed on the disciples in a locked room after His resurrection (John 20:19–22). Some people thought Peter was born again at Pentecost which is not exactly true. The baptism of the Holy Spirit at Pentecost upon the disciples who have already got the Holy Spirit earlier on Resurrection Sunday, was only for an empowerment for them for ministry and public witnesses. And the rest of the people at that time were born again with the Holy Spirit (as well as help with disciple's ministry).

The point is clear: it depends on who rules our heart—the Spirit of Christ or the spirit of Satan. We must choose daily whom we will follow:

• God, His will, and His Word, or
• Men with their opinions whom Satan influences.

Only one Spirit leads to truth and life. The other resists God’s purpose.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

a.) house: represents the individual person who is bound by evil spiritual bondage that kept God's people captivity.
b.) goods: represents that which has value inside the house people who are under spiritual captivity of Strong Man
c.) Satan is the king of the fallen angels = he is a single fallen arch angel of great power and authority Strong Man.
d.) It is the fallen angels/spirits under satan whom JESUS is casting out of people Christ freed his captives from spiritual bondage

This is a spiritual picture of God’s redemption plan for us. Jesus wasn’t teaching that people literally have some supernatural being inside them that must be “cast out” with dramatic signs like foaming at the mouth or screaming. No — what Christ did physically in the Gospels was a symbolic demonstration of His spiritual power to deliver humanity from sin, darkness, and bondage.

It's so unfortunate that you ruin your Amil witness with your nonsense about denying the existence of evil spiritual beings like Satan and his demons, like the one that possessed the man in relation to the passage we're talking about here (Matthew 12:28-29).

Despite your false denial, yes, the man did have a supernatural being inside of him, possessing him, and that is who Jesus cast out. To deny this is just utterly ridiculous.

If demon possession doesn't involve people having evil supernatural beings inside them, then how do you explain the account of Jesus coming across a demon-possessed man who said his name was "Legion, for we are many"? It was one man, yet the response was from many. How else can that be explained except that the one man had many evil supernatural beings inside him? And how do you explain the description of the demons asking Jesus to let them enter the swine, after which the swine ran and fell off a cliff, if they were not evil supernatural beings that were inside of the demon-possessed man and then went out of him into the swine? I agree with some of what you said in your post, but you just ruin it with this nonsense which makes it very hard for anyone to take you seriously.

 

[David in NJ]

No, the strong man represents Satan and I will demonstrate that.

I CLEARLY stated that satan is the king over the fallen angels = they do his bidding

 

[TribulationSigns]

It's so unfortunate that you ruin your Amil witness with your nonsense about denying the existence of evil spiritual beings like Satan and his demons, like the one that possessed the man in relation to the passage we're talking about here (Matthew 12:28-29).

Despite your false denial, yes, the man did have a supernatural being inside of him, possessing him, and that is who Jesus cast out. To deny this is just utterly ridiculous.

No the problem is that you don't really understand what is the devil. The devil is indeed a literal spirit, an antichrist spirit, a spirit of disobedience, an unclean spirit, a spirit of man, and there are indeed MANY Scriptures that support that truth. I have been saying that all along. What the Scripture nowhere support is that the Devil is a supernatural being that was once a good angel in Heaven, but was cast out of heaven and now (sorta) omnipresent where he is able to inhabit reptiles and billions of unsaved people on Earth simultaneously.

I think that is a misunderstanding on your part where Christians continue the old errors of assigning spiritual truths (like a dragon in Heaven with an army of angels) to literal/physical beings in physical/literal places.

Either make the Heaven in Revelation 12 literal, the Dragon Literal, the Woman Literal, the Angels literal and the Moon and stars literal, or don't make any of them literal. But you can't have it both ways, okay?

If you think about the devil "as if" he's now jumped out of the Serpent, which you may believe he spoke through. Why then does God still call him the Serpent all throughout Scripture, even to the end in Revelation? Is this spirit Satan still in the "physical/literal" Serpent to this day, humm? If not, why is the Serpent condemned and cursed and called a murderer and Liar? The Serpent was more subtil than all, so did the Devil make him do it or was it because someone's mind was just so sharp, cunning, tricky or crafty? If you say that Satan spoke through the literal Serpent, why was the woman not surprised that the Serpent was talking? Maybe because of the same reason no one was surprised when Satan inhabited Judas. They didn't know it because Satan is a spirit, and represented his own cunning evil mind and will.

If demon possession doesn't involve people having evil supernatural beings inside them, then how do you explain the account of Jesus coming across a demon-possessed man who said his name was "Legion, for we are many"? It was one man, yet the response was from many. How else can that be explained except that the one man had many evil supernatural beings inside him? And how do you explain the description of the demons asking Jesus to let them enter the swine, after which the swine ran and fell off a cliff, if they were not evil supernatural beings that were inside of the demon-possessed man? I agree with some of what you said in your post, but you just ruin it with this nonsense which makes it very hard for anyone to take you seriously.

So much for your Sunday school lesson on "Satan and demons." You are missing the point here.

Look...Christ talked to and rebuked so many evil spirits in men when He came to Israel to redeem them, all symbolizing not that there was a bunch of supernatural beings that had taken over their bodies making these people insane, physically ill or they were physically necromancers, but that in their spirit they were evil. We read that Satan entered Judas and that's when he went and sold Christ for that money. Did that mean a Supernatural being jumped into Him and took Him over? Not at all! None of the apostles saw any change in Judas, no one knew he had a devil, so why do we read this, think about it! It is Because God's Word tells us that Judas was the one who held the bag of money because he was a thief. He sold Christ because he was a thief all along and he lusted after that money and his OWN evil spirit moved him to do this just as it moves thieves today to do evil things for money. They have the same evil spirit, not a supernatural fallen angel devil-type that is so taught in the churches and your favorite Sunday School! The churches believe their false traditions that they decided to have some sort of revival tents pretending to physically cast out devils today, a joke and embarrassment to the true church and true deliverance from Devils! Because, like YOU (on some subjects), they don't understand God speaks in symbolism. He did it for our learning. He never promised anyone would cast out supernatural super devils, what He promised was in our great commission, we were given power and authority to preach the gospel, that would cast out the evil spirits and bring an end to man's spiritual insanity. For they are of legion, meaning many PEOPLE with same evil spirit out there that needed to be delivered! This was what the incident with man coming with a legion points to!

Luke 8:32-33

• "And there was there an herd of many swine feeding on the mountain: and they besought him that he would suffer them to enter into them. And he suffered them.
• Then went the devils out of the man, and entered into the swine: and the herd ran violently down a steep place into the lake, and were choked."

This has NOTHING to do with God talking to spiritual beings, or with a legion of Devils as stuffed into this one man, or with swine being made wicked to run into the sea, or with feeding these pigs on the side of a physical mountain. No, no no! This all was to symbolize something infinitely more important than pigs on a mountain or a man with a legion of actual physical demons making this man insane. Selah! Not any more than God having a physical donkey talk to someone in the way. God is making a point, dude, and it's not that pigs were made wicked while grazing on a hill, Donkeys can talk, or that scorpions and snakes can't harm His apostles. But no one will ever know the point when they're continuing to take a very physical approach to God's people, Kingdom and spiritual teachings.

I can't help people like you, for example, they're (generally speaking) never going to believe it. Sadly, the truth is not for the masses. People search for truth because they have a Spirit for it, I can't deliver it and force feed them. Tradition is a hard shell to crack. Just as I'm (generally speaking) never going to convince a Catholic that there is no Purgatory and the Bible is the authority, a Dispensationalist that there is no separation between Jew and Gentile, a Baptist that Baptism doesn't have to be dunking with water to find salvation, or a Calvinist that Calvinism is a horribly inappropriate misnomer, etc., etc. I'm certainly not going to try via third-person messaging. If Christ, being the perfect Preacher couldn't convince the Judaizers that He was the Christ, why would I (who is far less equipped to do so) presume to convince professed Christians about a much more complicated issue of the conceiving and personage of Satan? I wouldn't. All I can tell you is of God's promise that God's people seek truth and know His truth when they hear it because of the Spirit. That's as compared to non-authoritative presumptions. Christ said it best:

John 16:13

• "Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come."

 

[TribulationSigns]

And one more thing...

You'll note that while Paul's witness confirmed truth to the small group of Bereans (Acts 17:11), it was condemned and rejected by most other Jews (the vast majority) of the time. Should we expect anything less? These professed Christians really have no need that I should teach them. If the Holy Spirit doesn't tell them this is true, then either I'm wrong, or it's not meant for them to come to truth--even as with the Apostle Paul, it was not meant to enlighten most of Israel.

1st John 2:27

• "But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him."

The Spirit reveals a lie, if I'm a liar or false prophet, the Spirit will reveal it. I'm comfortable with that. But to make someone believe against what they have been traditionally grown up with in the church is not in my power, neither do I presume to convince my friends of its justification by Scripture. For example, in Genesis, they still insist that Satan is the "third person" when God judged Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden, and that is indeed their prerogative. I continue to believe that the serpent talking is to symbolize the argument within man with his spirit, and how it convinces, deceives, seduces him (or Eve in this instance) into disobeying God. We might call that same conversation of the spirit within us rationalization. Not unlike the cartoons of old where there was a little Devil on one shoulder and a little angel on the other, and one is arguing to do right while the other arguing it's not so bad to do evil. It's the same basic principle of a conversation with the devil. That was the symbolical conversation in the garden of Eden. The spirit of adversary (Satan) won over righteousness and reason and man disobeyed God's law. It is Adam and Eve's own spirit that led to their disobedience and that was passed down to us!

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I CLEARLY stated that satan is the king over the fallen angels = they do his bidding

I did not say otherwise. Take your time for once and read what I actually said. Read my post again and read what I was responding to that you said.

You said this:

The strongman's house is the man/woman/child who is being oppressed by the evil.

The metaphor of both "house and goods":
a.) house: represents the individual person who is bound by evil
b.) goods: represents that which has value inside the house
c.) Satan is the king of the fallen angels = he is a single fallen arch angel of great power and authority
d.) It is the fallen angels/spirits under satan whom JESUS is casting out of people

So, I am disagreeing with you about this and telling you that the strong man is Satan and that his house is Satan's kingdom and his goods are those who Satan oppresses in various ways including demon possession.

You said here: "It is the fallen angels/spirits under satan whom JESUS is casting out of people"? What is "it" here? I thought you were referring to the strong man there. No?

So, clarify your understanding of Matthew 12:28-29.

Who is the strong man? You defined everything else like his house and his goods. If you agree with me that the strong man is Satan, then how exactly does his house get spoiled, keeping in mind that you said his house "represents the individual person who is bound by evil"? How do his goods get spoiled, keeping in mind you said his goods "represents that which has value inside the house"?

Did you look at the verses preceding Matthew 12:28-29 for context? Jesus did not only mention the demon in the demon-possessed man, but also Satan and his kingdom, so that factors in to what He was saying in Matthew 12:28-29. It doesn't seem like you're taking that into account.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

No the problem is that you don't really understand what is the devil. The devil is indeed a literal spirit, an antichrist spirit, a spirit of disobedience, an unclean spirit, a spirit of man, and there are indeed MANY Scriptures that support that truth. I have been saying that all along. What the Scripture nowhere support is that the Devil is a supernatural being that was once a good angel in Heaven, but was cast out of heaven and now (sorta) omnipresent where he is able to inhabit reptiles and billions of unsaved people on Earth simultaneously.

I think that is a misunderstanding on your part where Christians continue the old errors of assigning spiritual truths (like a dragon in Heaven with an army of angels) to literal/physical beings in physical/literal places.

Either make the Heaven in Revelation 12 literal, the Dragon Literal, the Woman Literal, the Angels literal and the Moon and stars literal, or don't make any of them literal. But you can't have it both ways, okay?

If you think about the devil "as if" he's now jumped out of the Serpent, which you may believe he spoke through. Why then does God still call him the Serpent all throughout Scripture, even to the end in Revelation? Is this spirit Satan still in the "physical/literal" Serpent to this day, humm? If not, why is the Serpent condemned and cursed and called a murderer and Liar? The Serpent was more subtil than all, so did the Devil make him do it or was it because someone's mind was just so sharp, cunning, tricky or crafty? If you say that Satan spoke through the literal Serpent, why was the woman not surprised that the Serpent was talking? Maybe because of the same reason no one was surprised when Satan inhabited Judas. They didn't know it because Satan is a spirit, and represented his own cunning evil mind and will.



So much for your Sunday school lesson on "Satan and demons." You are missing the point here.

Look...Christ talked to and rebuked so many evil spirits in men when He came to Israel to redeem them, all symbolizing not that there was a bunch of supernatural beings that had taken over their bodies making these people insane, physically ill or they were physically necromancers, but that in their spirit they were evil. We read that Satan entered Judas and that's when he went and sold Christ for that money. Did that mean a Supernatural being jumped into Him and took Him over? Not at all! None of the apostles saw any change in Judas, no one knew he had a devil, so why do we read this, think about it! It is Because God's Word tells us that Judas was the one who held the bag of money because he was a thief. He sold Christ because he was a thief all along and he lusted after that money and his OWN evil spirit moved him to do this just as it moves thieves today to do evil things for money. They have the same evil spirit, not a supernatural fallen angel devil-type that is so taught in the churches and your favorite Sunday School! The churches believe their false traditions that they decided to have some sort of revival tents pretending to physically cast out devils today, a joke and embarrassment to the true church and true deliverance from Devils! Because, like YOU (on some subjects), they don't understand God speaks in symbolism. He did it for our learning. He never promised anyone would cast out supernatural super devils, what He promised was in our great commission, we were given power and authority to preach the gospel, that would cast out the evil spirits and bring an end to man's spiritual insanity. For they are of legion, meaning many PEOPLE with same evil spirit out there that needed to be delivered! This was what the incident with man coming with a legion points to!

Luke 8:32-33

• "And there was there an herd of many swine feeding on the mountain: and they besought him that he would suffer them to enter into them. And he suffered them.
• Then went the devils out of the man, and entered into the swine: and the herd ran violently down a steep place into the lake, and were choked."

This has NOTHING to do with God talking to spiritual beings, or with a legion of Devils as stuffed into this one man, or with swine being made wicked to run into the sea, or with feeding these pigs on the side of a physical mountain. No, no no! This all was to symbolize something infinitely more important than pigs on a mountain or a man with a legion of actual physical demons making this man insane. Selah! Not any more than God having a physical donkey talk to someone in the way. God is making a point, dude, and it's not that pigs were made wicked while grazing on a hill, Donkeys can talk, or that scorpions and snakes can't harm His apostles. But no one will ever know the point when they're continuing to take a very physical approach to God's people, Kingdom and spiritual teachings.

I can't help people like you, for example, they're (generally speaking) never going to believe it. Sadly, the truth is not for the masses. People search for truth because they have a Spirit for it, I can't deliver it and force feed them. Tradition is a hard shell to crack. Just as I'm (generally speaking) never going to convince a Catholic that there is no Purgatory and the Bible is the authority, a Dispensationalist that there is no separation between Jew and Gentile, a Baptist that Baptism doesn't have to be dunking with water to find salvation, or a Calvinist that Calvinism is a horribly inappropriate misnomer, etc., etc. I'm certainly not going to try via third-person messaging. If Christ, being the perfect Preacher couldn't convince the Judaizers that He was the Christ, why would I (who is far less equipped to do so) presume to convince professed Christians about a much more complicated issue of the conceiving and personage of Satan? I wouldn't. All I can tell you is of God's promise that God's people seek truth and know His truth when they hear it because of the Spirit. That's as compared to non-authoritative presumptions. Christ said it best:

John 16:13

• "Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come."

@rwb I see that you liked this post. You actually agree with this nonsense? If so, then that's honestly disappointing.

 

[rwb]

No the problem is that you don't really understand what is the devil. The devil is indeed a literal spirit, an antichrist spirit, a spirit of disobedience, an unclean spirit, a spirit of man, and there are indeed MANY Scriptures that support that truth. I have been saying that all along. What the Scripture nowhere support is that the Devil is a supernatural being that was once a good angel in Heaven, but was cast out of heaven and now (sorta) omnipresent where he is able to inhabit reptiles and billions of unsaved people on Earth simultaneously.

I think that is a misunderstanding on your part where Christians continue the old errors of assigning spiritual truths (like a dragon in Heaven with an army of angels) to literal/physical beings in physical/literal places.

Either make the Heaven literal, the Dragon Literal, the Woman Literal, the Angels literal and the Moon and stars literal, or don't make any of them literal. But you can't have it both ways.

If you think about the devil "as if" he's now jumped out of the Serpent, which you may believe he spoke through. Why then does God still call him the Serpent all throughout Scripture, even to the end in Revelation? Is this spirit Satan still in the "physical/literal" Serpent to this day, humm? If not, why is the Serpent condemned and cursed and called a murderer and Liar? The Serpent was more subtil than all, so did the Devil make him do it or was it because someone's mind was just so sharp, cunning, tricky or crafty? If you say that Satan spoke through the literal Serpent, why was the woman not surprised that the Serpent was talking? Maybe because of the same reason no one was surprised when Satan inhabited Judas. They didn't know it because Satan is a spirit, and represented his own cunning evil mind and will.



So much for your Sunday school lesson on "Satan and demons." You are missing the point here.

Look...Christ talked to and rebuked so many evil spirits in men when He came to Israel to redeem them, all symbolizing not that there was a bunch of supernatural beings that had taken over their bodies making these people insane, physically ill or they were physically necromancers, but that in their spirit they were evil. We read that Satan entered Judas and that's when he went and sold Christ for that money. Did that mean a Supernatural being jumped into Him and took Him over? Not at all! None of the apostles saw any change in Judas, no one knew he had a devil, so why do we read this, think about it! It is Because God's Word tells us that Judas was the one who held the bag of money because he was a thief. He sold Christ because he was a thief all along and he lusted after that money and his evil spirit moved him to do this just as it moves thieves today to do evil things for money. They have the same evil spirit, not a supernatural fallen angel devil-type that is so taught in the churches and your favorite Sunday School! We all heard about churches having a revival tents pretending to physically cast out devils today, a joke and embarrassment to the true church and true deliverance from Devils! Because, like YOU (on some subjects), they don't understand God speaks in symbolism. He did it for our learning. He never promised anyone would cast out supernatural super devils, what He promised was in our great commission, we were given power and authority to preach the gospel, that would cast out the evil spirits and bring an end to man's spiritual insanity. For they are of legion, meaning many of PEOPLE with same evil spirit that needed to be delivered! This was what the incident with man coming with a legion points to!

Luke 8:32-33

• "And there was there an herd of many swine feeding on the mountain: and they besought him that he would suffer them to enter into them. And he suffered them.
• Then went the devils out of the man, and entered into the swine: and the herd ran violently down a steep place into the lake, and were choked."

This has NOTHING to do with God talking to spiritual beings, or with a legion of Devils as stuffed into this one man, or with swine being made wicked to run into the sea, or with feeding these pigs on the side of a physical mountain. No, no no! This all was to symbolize something infinitely more important than pigs on a mountain or a man with a legion of actual physical demons making this man insane. Selah! Not any more than God having a physical donkey talk to someone in the way. God is making a point, dude, and it's not that pigs were made wicked while grazing on a hill, Donkeys can talk, or that scorpions and snakes can't harm His apostles. But no one will ever know the point when they're continuing to take a very physical approach to God's people, Kingdom and spiritual teachings.

I can't help people like you, for example, they're (generally speaking) never going to believe it. Sadly, the truth is not for the masses. People search for truth because they have a Spirit for it, I can't deliver it and force feed them. Tradition is a hard shell to crack. Just as I'm (generally speaking) never going to convince a Catholic that there is no Purgatory and the Bible is the authority, a Dispensationalist that there is no separation between Jew and Gentile, a Baptist that Baptism doesn't have to be dunking with water to find salvation, or a Calvinist that Calvinism is a horribly inappropriate misnomer, etc., etc. I'm certainly not going to try via third-person messaging. If Christ, being the perfect Preacher couldn't convince the Judaizers that He was the Christ, why would I (who is far less equipped to do so) presume to convince professed Christians about a much more complicated issue of the conceiving and personage of Satan? I wouldn't. All I can tell you is of God's promise that God's people seek truth and know His truth when they hear it because of the Spirit. That's as compared to non-authoritative presumptions. Christ said it best:

John 16:13

• "Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come."

I agree. From the heart the mouth speaks. The evil within is through our natural nature, having an evil heart in unbelief. That's why when we are born again, we are no longer natural man, we've become supernatural spiritual man with a new heart and new spirit. Natural man is of the devil having the same heart and spirit of evil as their father, the Devil.

Ezekiel 11:19-21 (KJV) And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you; and I will take the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them an heart of flesh: That they may walk in my statutes, and keep mine ordinances, and do them: and they shall be my people, and I will be their God. But as for them whose heart walketh after the heart of their detestable things and their abominations, I will recompense their way upon their own heads, saith the Lord GOD.

2 Corinthians 5:17 (KJV) Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

Ephesians 4:22-24 (KJV) That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts; And be renewed in the spirit of your mind; And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

 

[rwb]

@rwb I see that you liked this post. You actually agree with this nonsense? If so, then that's honestly disappointing.

I don't believe it's nonsense understanding that being possessed by evil is what comes naturally to man whose heart has not been made new through knowledge of the Holy Spirit within them. Demon possession is to have our hearts, and minds under the power of evil. When we are cleansed by Christ, we are given a new heart/mind through a new spirit within us.

 

[rwb]

And one more thing...

You'll note that while Paul's witness confirmed truth to the small group of Bereans (Acts 17:11), it was condemned and rejected by most other Jews (the vast majority) of the time. Should we expect anything less? These professed Christians really have no need that I should teach them. If the Holy Spirit doesn't tell them this is true, then either I'm wrong, or it's not meant for them to come to truth--even as with the Apostle Paul, it was not meant to enlighten most of Israel.

1st John 2:27

• "But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him."

The Spirit reveals a lie, if I'm a liar or false prophet, the Spirit will reveal it. I'm comfortable with that. But to make someone believe against what they have been traditionally grown up with in the church is not in my power, neither do I presume to convince my friends of its justification by Scripture. For example, in Genesis, they still insist that Satan is the "third person" when God judged Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden, and that is indeed their prerogative. I continue to believe that the serpent talking is to symbolize the argument within man with his spirit, and how it convinces, deceives, seduces him (or Eve in this instance) into disobeying God. We might call that same conversation of the spirit within us rationalization. Not unlike the cartoons of old where there was a little Devil on one shoulder and a little angel on the other, and one is arguing to do right while the other arguing it's not so bad to do evil. It's the same basic principle of a conversation with the devil. That was the symbolical conversation in the garden of Eden. The spirit of adversary (Satan) won over righteousness and reason and man disobeyed God's law. It is Adam and Eve's own spirit that led to their disobedience and that was passed down to us!

This is interesting information that I never really considered. I'll have to give it more thoughtful study.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

No the problem is that you don't really understand what is the devil. The devil is indeed a literal spirit, an antichrist spirit, a spirit of disobedience, an unclean spirit, a spirit of man, and there are indeed MANY Scriptures that support that truth. I have been saying that all along. What the Scripture nowhere support is that the Devil is a supernatural being that was once a good angel in Heaven, but was cast out of heaven and now (sorta) omnipresent where he is able to inhabit reptiles and billions of unsaved people on Earth simultaneously.

LOL. You spew so much nonsense. Who said that Satan himself inhabits billions of unsaved people? Not me or anyone. He is obviously not the only evil spirit out there. The Bible talks about Satan and his angels. Satan is the king of the fallen angels, but he is only one of them.

I think that is a misunderstanding on your part where Christians continue the old errors of assigning spiritual truths (like a dragon in Heaven with an army of angels) to literal/physical beings in physical/literal places.

You are the one who does not understand. I know I have nothing to learn from you because you believe a number of things that are false. You already know what those things are.

Either make the Heaven in Revelation 12 literal, the Dragon Literal, the Woman Literal, the Angels literal and the Moon and stars literal, or don't make any of them literal. But you can't have it both ways, okay?

How far do you go with this? Maybe we should not think there will be a literal new heavens and new earth that we will dwell on where there will literally be no more death, crying, sorrow or pain? That's just all symbolic? Every word is symbolic? You are the opposite of the hyper-literal dispies. It's just ridiculous. There's no balance in either extreme way of thinking.

If you think about the devil "as if" he's now jumped out of the Serpent, which you may believe he spoke through. Why then does God still call him the Serpent all throughout Scripture, even to the end in Revelation? Is this spirit Satan still in the "physical/literal" Serpent to this day, humm? If not, why is the Serpent condemned and cursed and called a murderer and Liar? The Serpent was more subtil than all, so did the Devil make him do it or was it because someone's mind was just so sharp, cunning, tricky or crafty? If you say that Satan spoke through the literal Serpent, why was the woman not surprised that the Serpent was talking? Maybe because of the same reason no one was surprised when Satan inhabited Judas. They didn't know it because Satan is a spirit, and represented his own cunning evil mind and will.

You have all these questions, but you have no answers. Scripture repeatedly refers to Satan as an individual being. Over and over again. And you still miss it! Unbelievable! Tell me, do you think Jesus was tempted by His own spirit in the desert for 40 days and 40 nights?

So much for your Sunday school lesson on "Satan and demons." You are missing the point here.

Noting but meaningless words from you. You have literally nothing else to offer on this topic.

Look...Christ talked to and rebuked so many evil spirits in men when He came to Israel to redeem them, all symbolizing not that there was a bunch of supernatural beings that had taken over their bodies making these people insane, physically ill or they were physically necromancers, but that in their spirit they were evil.

Each person has one spirit, right? How do you explain the MANY spirits of the demon-possessed man who went out of him into the swine? You have no explanation for that with your false imaginary belief.

We read that Satan entered Judas and that's when he went and sold Christ for that money. Did that mean a Supernatural being jumped into Him and took Him over? Not at all!

Of course it does! In no way, shape or form does it indicate otherwise! You are being completely foolish here. You are making something simple very convoluted for no reason at all.

None of the apostles saw any change in Judas, no one knew he had a devil, so why do we read this, think about it! It is Because God's Word tells us that Judas was the one who held the bag of money because he was a thief. He sold Christ because he was a thief all along and he lusted after that money and his OWN evil spirit moved him to do this just as it moves thieves today to do evil things for money. They have the same evil spirit, not a supernatural fallen angel devil-type that is so taught in the churches and your favorite Sunday School! The churches believe their false traditions that they decided to have some sort of revival tents pretending to physically cast out devils today, a joke and embarrassment to the true church and true deliverance from Devils! Because, like YOU (on some subjects), they don't understand God speaks in symbolism. He did it for our learning. He never promised anyone would cast out supernatural super devils, what He promised was in our great commission, we were given power and authority to preach the gospel, that would cast out the evil spirits and bring an end to man's spiritual insanity. For they are of legion, meaning many PEOPLE with same evil spirit out there that needed to be delivered! This was what the incident with man coming with a legion points to!

Luke 8:32-33

• "And there was there an herd of many swine feeding on the mountain: and they besought him that he would suffer them to enter into them. And he suffered them.
• Then went the devils out of the man, and entered into the swine: and the herd ran violently down a steep place into the lake, and were choked."

This has NOTHING to do with God talking to spiritual beings, or with a legion of Devils as stuffed into this one man, or with swine being made wicked to run into the sea, or with feeding these pigs on the side of a physical mountain. No, no no!

LOL! Why are you ignoring the FACT that the legion of demons all came out of ONE man, not out of many people! Hello? Do you have no shame? You are twisting the text to fit your false belief. The man himself had one soul, one spirit and one body. But, Jesus talked to MANY spirits who were inside him. Why are you trying to get around that? Just shameful stuff. I see people here blatantly twisting scripture over and over again and that includes you. You should know better. I can't even believe you are an Amil when you act more like a typical pretrib or preterist that repeatedly twists scripture.

This all was to symbolize something infinitely more important than pigs on a mountain or a man with a legion of actual physical demons making this man insane. Selah!

Symbolism! Wow! You truly have no shame. There is no indication there whatsoever that Jesus was being symbolic. The demon-possessed man literally said "I am Legion, for we are many". That is not symbolism. Stop shamefully twisting the text. And Jesus was not saying that the legion entered the swine and that they ran off the cliff only symbolically. What a joke! He clearly was speaking literally there. You have no shame. Pathetic. You seem to think that the more you spiritualize scripture, the more spiritual you are, but the fact is that spiritual discernment requires being able to differentiate between figurative and literal text or between spiritual and physical text and you are not good at that a majority of the time.