Doctrine of Predestination

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JLB

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I'm a Teacher. I'm teaching you to NOT take Scripture out of context. There is nothing about being born again of the Spirit and how to be. Read from verse 1 as I provided you and you ignored.

that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. Romans 10:9


I asking you a specific question about an unsaved person, (Jew or Gentile) and how an unsaved person becomes saved.


Saved
is what the scripture refers to.

Saved is what my question is based on.

Saved is the context of the passage and saved is the context of my question.


If you are a Teacher, then this should be easy for you to answer.
 
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DJT_47

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I did a short study and writing on this topic that I've previously posted, but I'll l post it here again for consideration. The below is what I've concluded.

Predestination (based upon the foreknowledge of God)

Premise: God knows the beginning and the end, so therefore he must also know all that will occur within the entire expanse of time including everything that will occur in the middle, between the beginning and the end of time.

Predestination as discussed in the bible (below passages) can therefore be easily explained when taking into consideration the foreknowledge that God possesses as also noted in scripture, which factor is germane to the proper understanding of predestination but is most often, if not always, overlooked and not considered when examining/discussing predestination.

Further, based upon God’s foreknowledge, all things must therefore then be already determined (destiny/fate); how can they not be if God knows the future? How can God know the future if it is fluid, dynamic, and changes, unless such fluidity and change is part of His foreknowledge, which it obviously must be? If things were fluid, dynamic, and/or random and subject to unexpected or unknown constant change to God, God would not know what was going to happen in the future and would not be able nor have been able to predict future events through His prophets. So, if God does know what will happen in the future, the future must already be set or determined and unchangeable (destiny/fate).

This premise further has profound implications when considering things such as prayer. This would have to then mean that God knows that you will (future) be praying for something before you pray for it. It doesn’t mean that you shouldn’t pray for it then, it simply means that the future is already known or has already been determined (due to God’s ‘foreknowledge’ of it), and your prayers, are simply fulfilling that which is already known to God and will occur as does everything else that occurs or will occur (also due to the “foreknowledge” of God). Whatever influences we think we have upon any given thing or subject through prayer or other actions, may in fact be as such, however, such influences are already known to God by His foreknowledge, and have therefore already been determined and are just the fulfillment of that which has already been determined will/should occur.

If God knows the beginning, the end, and as stated everything in between, then one can only conclude that all things have already been determined and are NOT able to be changed (destiny/fate) by prayer or anything else (once again due to the “foreknowledge” of God) and that all things that are done are so done in accordance with God’s plan and predicated upon and consistent with His “foreknowledge”. This is not to say that certain individuals were chosen first as being special or better than others and predestined accordingly, but rather means that once the plan was set into motion (the creation of all things), that the creation itself and related natural unfolding, sequential events, including the actions taken by individuals pursuant to the exercise of their own free will, would result in various things being done and events unfolding as a result thereof, but because God knows what those things will be in advance of them happening due to His “foreknowledge”, and predestination then being consistent with said “foreknowledge. Predestination then is successive to and in harmony with the “foreknowledge” of God.

Jer 1:5 5 Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.

Rom 8 28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

1 Pet 1:2 2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

Eph 1 1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus:2 Grace be to you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
 
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1stCenturyLady

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that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. Romans 10:9


I asking you a specific question about an unsaved person, (Jew or Gentile) and how an unsaved person becomes saved.


Saved
is what the scripture refers to.

Saved is what my question is based on.

Saved is the context of the passage and saved is the context of my question.


If you are a Teacher, then this should be easy for you to answer.
I already did...twice. You seem to think that being born again after repentance is not necessary. To say nothing of CONTEXT.
 

One 2 question

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Thanks.
What do you specifically mean by “reconcile”?
I saw Satan and all with him repent. They moved towards God their Creator and God forgave them. He reconciled them to Himself. God went further than making peace between Himself and all in the lake of fire. I saw God reach behind His throne and slide another throne to His left. He invited satan to sit with Him.

Now that blew me away. To me, this was the ultimate demonstration of love and reconciliation. These enemies opposed to eachother being unified and made one. Satan, the devil was restored and the grace of God was made plain for all to see. Yes, throughout the never ending ages from that point onwards. Glory to God!
 

One 2 question

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I did a short study and writing on this topic that I've previously posted, but I'll l post it here again for consideration. The below is what I've concluded.

Predestination (based upon the foreknowledge of God)

Premise: God knows the beginning and the end, so therefore he must also know all that will occur within the entire expanse of time including everything that will occur in the middle, between the beginning and the end of time.

Predestination as discussed in the bible (below passages) can therefore be easily explained when taking into consideration the foreknowledge that God possesses as also noted in scripture, which factor is germane to the proper understanding of predestination but is most often, if not always, overlooked and not considered when examining/discussing predestination.

Further, based upon God’s foreknowledge, all things must therefore then be already determined (destiny/fate); how can they not be if God knows the future? How can God know the future if it is fluid, dynamic, and changes, unless such fluidity and change is part of His foreknowledge, which it obviously must be? If things were fluid, dynamic, and/or random and subject to unexpected or unknown constant change to God, God would not know what was going to happen in the future and would not be able nor have been able to predict future events through His prophets. So, if God does know what will happen in the future, the future must already be set or determined and unchangeable (destiny/fate).

This premise further has profound implications when considering things such as prayer. This would have to then mean that God knows that you will (future) be praying for something before you pray for it. It doesn’t mean that you shouldn’t pray for it then, it simply means that the future is already known or has already been determined (due to God’s ‘foreknowledge’ of it), and your prayers, are simply fulfilling that which is already known to God and will occur as does everything else that occurs or will occur (also due to the “foreknowledge” of God). Whatever influences we think we have upon any given thing or subject through prayer or other actions, may in fact be as such, however, such influences are already known to God by His foreknowledge, and have therefore already been determined and are just the fulfillment of that which has already been determined will/should occur.

If God knows the beginning, the end, and as stated everything in between, then one can only conclude that all things have already been determined and are NOT able to be changed (destiny/fate) by prayer or anything else (once again due to the “foreknowledge” of God) and that all things that are done are so done in accordance with God’s plan and predicated upon and consistent with His “foreknowledge”. This is not to say that certain individuals were chosen first as being special or better than others and predestined accordingly, but rather means that once the plan was set into motion (the creation of all things), that the creation itself and related natural unfolding, sequential events, including the actions taken by individuals pursuant to the exercise of their own free will, would result in various things being done and events unfolding as a result thereof, but because God knows what those things will be in advance of them happening due to His “foreknowledge”, and predestination then being consistent with said “foreknowledge. Predestination then is successive to and in harmony with the “foreknowledge” of God.

Jer 1:5 5 Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.

Rom 8 28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

1 Pet 1:2 2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

Eph 1 1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus:2 Grace be to you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
So are you saying that the Creator before performing His act of creating had a script in mind or did He carry it out on the fly?

What was predetermined and what was left to adlib spontaneous responses to His creations actions?

What is according to the good pleasure of his will? Is there anything that is outside it?
 

Taken

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I saw Satan and all with him repent. They moved towards God their Creator and God forgave them. He reconciled them to Himself. God went further than making peace between Himself and all in the lake of fire. I saw God reach behind His throne and slide another throne to His left. He invited satan to sit with Him.

Now that blew me away. To me, this was the ultimate demonstration of love and reconciliation. These enemies opposed to eachother being unified and made one. Satan, the devil was restored and the grace of God was made plain for all to see. Yes, throughout the never ending ages from that point onwards. Glory to God!

Ok, thanks.
Speculation, guessing on my part.
Sounds “as if” a Dream or Vision , you are saying “you saw”, is that correct?

You say, “you saw” …
A “repentance”… of all “with Satan”…
AKA…
* Fallen Angels, their unsaved souls.
* Unsaved souls of men.
(Maybe or not in “bodies”, IDK.)

“reconciliation”… specific,
You seem to be saying …
Forgiveness Given…
* Satan & fallen Angels
* mens Souls.
Yes?

And


They ALSO … with God Forever?
Yes?


Thanks.

Glory to God,
Taken
 

JLB

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I already did...twice. You seem to think that being born again after repentance is not necessary. To say nothing of CONTEXT.

‘The phrase born again is not mentioned in the text I quoted.


I’m sticking to the context.

You never answered my question, but only said I was taking the verse out of context.

That’s not an answer. That’s just a lie… as well all see.


that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. Romans 10:9


I asking you a specific question about an unsaved person, (Jew or Gentile) and how an unsaved person becomes saved.


Saved
is what the scripture refers to.

Saved is what my question is based on.

Saved is the context of the passage and saved is the context of my question.


Do you believe an unsaved person must confess with their mouth, Jesus as Lord and believe in their heart God raised Him from the dead to become saved?


Yes?

No?

Another lie?
 

1stCenturyLady

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‘The phrase born again is not mentioned in the text I quoted.


I’m sticking to the context.

You never answered my question, but only said I was taking the verse out of context.

That’s not an answer. That’s just a lie… as well all see.


that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. Romans 10:9


I asking you a specific question about an unsaved person, (Jew or Gentile) and how an unsaved person becomes saved.


Saved
is what the scripture refers to.

Saved is what my question is based on.

Saved is the context of the passage and saved is the context of my question.


Do you believe an unsaved person must confess with their mouth, Jesus as Lord and believe in their heart God raised Him from the dead to become saved?


Yes?

No?

Another lie?
Ok, so taking this verse out of context, lets say this is a Gentile thief. They want to have eternal life so they say Jesus is Lord and actually believe Jesus was raised from the dead and keep on stealing, no they are not saved. They are not born again. If they were they wouldn't have any desire to steal anymore.

But, a Jew from New York who wears His side-burns in a long curl, says that Jesus is Lord and believes Jesus was raised from the dead - Yes. The Holy Spirit would enter him and clean his nature, making him born again.
 

1stCenturyLady

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View attachment 71377

Not to men you don't....

Obviously accepting the whole counsel of the Lord is not your strong suite View attachment 71378
I was given the office of Teacher from God. He spoke to me in the Arizona desert. On the topic of women not teaching men according to Paul, I asked God why if I am not to teach men also. Why did He instruct Paul to write that. He spoke to me again and said that was Paul's opinion for that time when women couldn't even read, and then He said, I didn't tell Paul to write that in that personal letter to Timothy.
 

One 2 question

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I was given the office of Teacher from God. He spoke to me in the Arizona desert. On the topic of women not teaching men according to Paul, I asked God why if I am not to teach men also. Why did He instruct Paul to write that. He spoke to me again and said that was Paul's opinion for that time when women couldn't even read, and then He said, I didn't tell Paul to write that in that personal letter to Timothy.
Is it's like when Paul said, But to the rest I, not the Lord, say: If any brother has a wife who does not believe....
Now about virgins: I have no command from the Lord, but I give a judgment as one who by the Lord’s mercy is trustworthy. Because of the present crisis, I think that it is good.....
In my judgment, she is happier if she stays.....
 

One 2 question

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Ok, thanks.
Speculation, guessing on my part.
Sounds “as if” a Dream or Vision , you are saying “you saw”, is that correct?
Yes
You say, “you saw” …
A “repentance”… of all “with Satan”…
AKA…
* Fallen Angels, their unsaved souls.
* Unsaved souls of men.
(Maybe or not in “bodies”, IDK.)
Yes
“reconciliation”… specific,
You seem to be saying …
Forgiveness Given…
* Satan & fallen Angels
* mens Souls.
Yes?
Yes
And


They ALSO … with God Forever?
Yes?
Yes
Thanks.

Glory to God,
Taken
You're welcome .

All according to the Creators plan, His script. This is very comforting.
 

JLB

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Ok, so taking this verse out of context, lets say this is a Gentile thief. They want to have eternal life so they say Jesus is Lord and actually believe Jesus was raised from the dead and keep on stealing, no they are not saved. They are not born again. If they were they wouldn't have any desire to steal anymore.

But, a Jew from New York who wears His side-burns in a long curl, says that Jesus is Lord and believes Jesus was raised from the dead - Yes. The Holy Spirit would enter him and clean his nature, making him born again.

The same Holy Spirit, (the Spirit of Grace), that empowers the unbeliever to confess Jesus as Lord and believe God raised Him from the dead, will renew the mind and restore the soul, and bring sanctification to anyone who will yield to His leading, whether Jew or Gentile.


It starts with confessing with the mouth and believing in the heart God raised Him from the dead, in which they are saved, in which they are baptized into Christ by the Spirit.

Now the work of sanctification can begin, from within, by the Spirit.
 

Taken

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Yes

Yes

Yes

Agree.


(With God Forever.)
Disagree.

Why?
Because; Scripture repeatedly reveals;

Forgiveness is for Unbelief.
Reconcile is for Believing, Unbelief, Returning to Belief.

* Forgiveness is for an action. (Rejection)
* Forgiveness does NOT mean Forgiveness of Consequence.

Belief of a man is Required during the time the man’s Body’s Life (Blood), is Alive / Living, For that man to Receive Salvation and with God Forever.

God can Forgive A Body, A Soul… anytime after The Body, The Soul Repents.

IF while a man is alive in his (Blood ) Life and REJECTS choosing to be MADE Alive Forever With God…
** That’s mans “Rejection” will be Forgiven.
** That mans Consequence (separation FROM God Forever, shall Remain…
( Less God be a Liar / God Forbid).

Dead Bodys do Not Repent.
(Ecc 9:5)



*** On Judgement Day, God Does NOT “raise” from the Dead, mens Dead Body’s (with it’s Blood Life).

Point…
God Saves Repentant Body’s Life (Blood) when that Life is Living.
A bloodless / Lifeless Dead Body not Repentant when Alive is Not risen in a new body After Death.

You're welcome .

^5

All according to the Creators plan, His script. This is very comforting.

Comforting to me to Know, one day ONLY they Faithful TO God shall occupy the Restored Earth.

God bless you.

Glory to God,
Taken
 

1stCenturyLady

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Now the work of sanctification can begin, from within, by the Spirit.
Sanctification is completed at the same time we are justified 1 Cor. 6:11. We receive His righteousness. But there is a process the Holy Spirit does in those born again of the Spirit, but it is called glorification. We have already been set apart unto God at the beginning of our salvation. Romans 8:29-30. Glorification does not start after death as has been taught by false teachers. We have started to conform into the image of Christ as soon as we receive the Holy Spirit. We see it in the fruit of the Spirit. The process is spelled out for us in 2 Peter 1:2-7. But read through to 11 and see that when this process is complete we will never stumble. This is also called holy.

Revelation 22:11b "he who is righteous, let him be righteous still; he who is holy, let him be holy still.”
 

JLB

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Sanctification is completed at the same time we are justified 1 Cor. 6:11. We receive His righteousness. But there is a process the Holy Spirit does in those born again of the Spirit, but it is called glorification. We have already been set apart unto God at the beginning of our salvation. Romans 8:29-30. Glorification does not start after death as has been taught by false teachers. We have started to conform into the image of Christ as soon as we receive the Holy Spirit. We see it in the fruit of the Spirit. The process is spelled out for us in 2 Peter 1:2-7. But read through to 11 and see that when this process is complete we will never stumble. This is also called holy.

Revelation 22:11b "he who is righteous, let him be righteous still; he who is holy, let him be holy still.”


The same Holy Spirit, (the Spirit of Grace), that empowers the unbeliever to confess Jesus as Lord and believe God raised Him from the dead, will renew the mind and restore the soul, and bring sanctification to anyone who will yield to His leading, whether Jew or Gentile.


It starts with confessing with the mouth and believing in the heart God raised Him from the dead, in which they are saved, in which they are baptized into Christ by the Spirit.
 

brightfame52

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The same Holy Spirit, (the Spirit of Grace), that empowers the unbeliever to confess Jesus as Lord and believe God raised Him from the
So the person is regenerated by the Spirit B4 they believe and confess. So those are evidence they are saved and not conditions to get saved.
 

ProverbsInPink

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I did a short study and writing on this topic that I've previously posted, but I'll l post it here again for consideration. The below is what I've concluded.

Predestination (based upon the foreknowledge of God)

Premise: God knows the beginning and the end, so therefore he must also know all that will occur within the entire expanse of time including everything that will occur in the middle, between the beginning and the end of time.

Predestination as discussed in the bible (below passages) can therefore be easily explained when taking into consideration the foreknowledge that God possesses as also noted in scripture, which factor is germane to the proper understanding of predestination but is most often, if not always, overlooked and not considered when examining/discussing predestination.

Further, based upon God’s foreknowledge, all things must therefore then be already determined (destiny/fate); how can they not be if God knows the future? How can God know the future if it is fluid, dynamic, and changes, unless such fluidity and change is part of His foreknowledge, which it obviously must be? If things were fluid, dynamic, and/or random and subject to unexpected or unknown constant change to God, God would not know what was going to happen in the future and would not be able nor have been able to predict future events through His prophets. So, if God does know what will happen in the future, the future must already be set or determined and unchangeable (destiny/fate).

This premise further has profound implications when considering things such as prayer. This would have to then mean that God knows that you will (future) be praying for something before you pray for it. It doesn’t mean that you shouldn’t pray for it then, it simply means that the future is already known or has already been determined (due to God’s ‘foreknowledge’ of it), and your prayers, are simply fulfilling that which is already known to God and will occur as does everything else that occurs or will occur (also due to the “foreknowledge” of God). Whatever influences we think we have upon any given thing or subject through prayer or other actions, may in fact be as such, however, such influences are already known to God by His foreknowledge, and have therefore already been determined and are just the fulfillment of that which has already been determined will/should occur.

If God knows the beginning, the end, and as stated everything in between, then one can only conclude that all things have already been determined and are NOT able to be changed (destiny/fate) by prayer or anything else (once again due to the “foreknowledge” of God) and that all things that are done are so done in accordance with God’s plan and predicated upon and consistent with His “foreknowledge”. This is not to say that certain individuals were chosen first as being special or better than others and predestined accordingly, but rather means that once the plan was set into motion (the creation of all things), that the creation itself and related natural unfolding, sequential events, including the actions taken by individuals pursuant to the exercise of their own free will, would result in various things being done and events unfolding as a result thereof, but because God knows what those things will be in advance of them happening due to His “foreknowledge”, and predestination then being consistent with said “foreknowledge. Predestination then is successive to and in harmony with the “foreknowledge” of God.

Jer 1:5 5 Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.

Rom 8 28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

1 Pet 1:2 2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

Eph 1 1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus:2 Grace be to you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
Jesus as Savior is spoken of in the Old Testament. So I agree,Salvation is predestined and so too are those whom God will lead into his grace by His choice,not ours.
God knows the beginning from the end. He is the beginning,Alpha,and the end,Omega.

I think when Jesus tells no one can come to Him unless the Father calls them,that that is proof God chooses who he will Save. Which is where the identity of those Chosen, God's Elect, comes from.

It's weird to me how some of us will say we believe the Bible teachings and yet we will argue against what is taught there.

And when it teaches God calls whom He will, how do we who were called argue that's not true ? And then sully the calling by insisting not only is it not true but it's a fiction invented by some guy named,Calvin.

It does make me wonder. Are those argumentative Calvin types one of us? Really?
Or are they here trying to defame and insult the calling,eternal permanent Salvation, and God's Sovereignty.

Are wool clad wolves serving their own agenda?
 

Big Boy Johnson

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Salvation is predestined and so too are those whom God will lead into his grace by His choice,not ours.

How calvinistic of you.

So you are saying God actually wants all the people that go to hell to go there?

Under the false doctrines of calvinism, they blame God for causing people to go to hell.

They have to because they claim God decides who gets saved and who does not which is a lie.

Calvinism is a fake gospel and is not biblical.

calvinism1.gif