How were disciples supposed to know when to run away?

[HealthyShape]

"When you see Jerusalem being surrounded by armies, you will know that its desolation is near. 21Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those in the city get out, and let those in the country not enter the city.
Lk 21:20-21, NIV

1. Gessius Florus sent Roman troops to raid Jerusalem and arrest city leaders.
2. Cestius Gallus sieged Jerusalem.
3. Idumean army camped in front of Jerusalem and then invaded the city and established the terror of zealots, killing chief priests etc.
4. Final Roman siege in 70 AD

It seems that it would be about 70 AD (because of the desolation), but they could not know beforehand. Did they run four times or possibly in four waves so that there were less and less Christians in Jerusalem with time?

 

[Randy Kluth]

"When you see Jerusalem being surrounded by armies, you will know that its desolation is near. 21Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those in the city get out, and let those in the country not enter the city.
Lk 21:20-21, NIV

1. Gessius Florus sent Roman troops to raid Jerusalem and arrest city leaders.
2. Cestius Gallus sieged Jerusalem.
3. Idumean army camped in front of Jerusalem and then invaded the city and established the terror of zealots, killing chief priests etc.
4. Final Roman siege in 70 AD

It seems that it would be about 70 AD (because of the desolation), but they could not know beforehand. Did they run four times or possibly in four waves so that there were less and less Christians in Jerusalem with time?

It's just a thought, perhaps less informed than I'd like, but I think Jesus covered all bases. He told his Disciples to flee in one big wave, which could be in any time they heard rumors that the Roman Army was coming.

Some could leave right away. But some couldn't leave immediately, and were given the idea that they had a short time to prepare to leave. They had to deal with the conditions of their family, with children and the aged, and they had to deal with their possessions. It wasn't an easy time to prepare, but they were given a short time to prepare.

Finally, there would be a time when they could leave at the last minute. But at that point they had to come down from their roofs immediately, and leave without looking back. It was a race to the hills, clearly avoiding holing up in the city of Jerusalem. Staying there in defiance of this judgment from God would mean certain death or captivity and exile.

We know that the Roman Army came twice, the 1st under Cestius Gallus, a clear signal it was time to leave with very little time left to prepare for a long-term departure. But when Titus came, a family would have to literally run. Either way, obedience would deliver Jesus' Disciples from either death or slavery.

 

[grafted branch]

"When you see Jerusalem being surrounded by armies, you will know that its desolation is near. 21Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those in the city get out, and let those in the country not enter the city.
Lk 21:20-21, NIV

1. Gessius Florus sent Roman troops to raid Jerusalem and arrest city leaders.
2. Cestius Gallus sieged Jerusalem.
3. Idumean army camped in front of Jerusalem and then invaded the city and established the terror of zealots, killing chief priests etc.
4. Final Roman siege in 70 AD

It seems that it would be about 70 AD (because of the desolation), but they could not know beforehand. Did they run four times or possibly in four waves so that there were less and less Christians in Jerusalem with time?

That’s a good question.

I’ve looked at this before and what I see is the “one taken and the other left” phase could possibly be interpreted as one received the message and one didn’t. The word taken, or shall be taken, is <3880> paralambano. One of the definitions of that word from Thayer’s Greek Lexicon is to receive something transmitted, to receive with the mind.

Luke 17:30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed. This verse shows the revealing, verses 31-33 talks about the AOD fleeing, then in verses 34-36 are the “one shall be taken and the other left” phrases.

When defining the word “taken” as “received the message”, we could say the Son of man is revealed, some receive that message and some don’t, the ones that do receive it flee and the ones that don’t are left.

Now there is also an interesting possible connection between Mary’s flight and the abomination of desolation fleeing.



Matthew 24:16 let them in Judea flee. Matthew 2:1 Jesus is born Bethlehem of Judea.

Matthew 24:17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house. Matthew 2:13 the angel of the Lord appeareth to Joseph in a dream, saying, Arise. Joseph could’ve been sleeping on the housetop when he had the angel appear to him in the dream.

Matthew 24:18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes. The word “his” can be either male or female. Matthew 2:13 and take the young child and his mother. Mary could’ve been gleaning in a field at evening time, with the baby Jesus being with either Joseph or Mary.

Matthew 24:19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days! Mary was no longer pregnant but had just recently given birth and was nursing when they fled to Egypt. And there are mountains in Egypt which they could’ve fled to.



Luke 21:20 says When you see Jerusalem being surrounded by armies, you will know that its desolation is near. This verse doesn’t say to flee when you see the armies, only that the desolation is near. So just as the flight of Mary, Joseph, and Jesus was initiated by the appearing of the angel in a dream, perhaps the revealing of the Son of man initiated the AOD flight in Luke 17.

 

[HealthyShape]

It's just a thought, perhaps less informed than I'd like, but I think Jesus covered all bases. He told his Disciples to flee in one big wave, which could be in any time they heard rumors that the Roman Army was coming.

Some could leave right away. But some couldn't leave immediately, and were given the idea that they had a short time to prepare to leave. They had to deal with the conditions of their family, with children and the aged, and they had to deal with their possessions. It wasn't an easy time to prepare, but they were given a short time to prepare.

Finally, there would be a time when they could leave at the last minute. But at that point they had to come down from their roofs immediately, and leave without looking back. It was a race to the hills, clearly avoiding holing up in the city of Jerusalem. Staying there in defiance of this judgment from God would mean certain death or captivity and exile.

We know that the Roman Army came twice, the 1st under Cestius Gallus, a clear signal it was time to leave with very little time left to prepare for a long-term departure. But when Titus came, a family would have to literally run. Either way, obedience would deliver Jesus' Disciples from either death or slavery.

From reading Josephus, it seems to me that people could not run from the city when Titus came. Because zealots and other fractions did not allow people to leave the city and killed those who wanted... this is what is confusing to me.

It seems that the right time to leave the city and Judea (and Galilee) was basically after zealots took the temple. When rebels were already in power in Jerusalem, people could not leave. And Jews have been killed in other cities like in Cesarea by tens of thousands.

The desolation of the city/temple happened years later. But the years till that event were terrible too.

 

[HealthyShape]

BTW, Samaritans were massacred by Romans when they run on their holy mountain. So not every mountain was safe. And because the killing went through the whole Judea, Galilee, Samaria before it came to Jerusalem, running to such cities would be quite a mistake.

Alexandria in Egypt was the safe place to go, maybe? Or Syria?

 

[Randy Kluth]

From reading Josephus, it seems to me that people could not run from the city when Titus came. Because zealots and other fractions did not allow people to leave the city and killed those who wanted... this is what is confusing to me.

Yes, that is why I said holing up in the city of Jerusalem would mean certain death, or exile to slavery. The city was walled, and holing up in there would mean the Romans would have to lay siege to the city, and ultimately break through. Once this was done, the Romans would determine to put down Jewish defiance and rebellion by all means.

By contrast, Jesus told his Disciples to flee the city. They could be outside the city in villages or on their lands when the Roman Army was heard to be approaching. That's when they could run.

It seems that the right time to leave the city and Judea (and Galilee) was basically after zealots took the temple. When rebels were already in power in Jerusalem, people could not leave. And Jews have been killed in other cities like in Cesarea by tens of thousands.

The desolation of the city/temple happened years later. But the years till that event were terrible too.

No, a further desolation happened years later in 135 AD in the bar Kokhba Revolt. But the initial desolation of Jerusalem and the Temple took place in 70 AD under Titus.

Other cities may have suffered defeat, but Jesus warned his Disciples to flee Jerusalem to the hills. Those who fled to Pella escaped.

 

[quietthinker]

How were disciples supposed to know when to run away?​

I read the text of the instructions given by Jesus.

 

[MatthewG]

1,000,000 people killed with God's wrath downpouring on them in that day and age but people say that Hitler was greater.

I don't get it... They say the world is fixing to end... I don't get it.

People like what they like, and only care about what they care about.

To... me. That is okay. Maybe it's just God wiping out that nation which is something people want to happen in their own countries.



I remember :


The Twilight Zone episode you're thinking of is titled "Four O'Clock." It originally aired on April 6, 1962, as part of Season 3, Episode 30.
Here’s a breakdown of the episode:

Plot Summary

Oliver Crangle, played by Theodore Bikel, is a fanatical man obsessed with identifying and punishing people he deems "evil." He keeps meticulous records of their supposed misdeeds and spends his days harassing employers and authorities to ruin their lives. Convinced that he can rid the world of evil, he plans a supernatural event to occur at precisely 4:00 PM, believing all evil people will be shrunk to half their size. His only companion is a parrot in his apartment, which echoes his twisted worldview.

Twist Ending
In classic Twilight Zone fashion, Crangle’s plan backfires. At 4:00 PM, he himself is transformed—revealing that his own hatred and prejudice made him one of the “evil” people he sought to eliminate.

️ Themes
The episode explores themes of moral absolutism, self-righteousness, and the dangers of fanaticism. Rod Serling’s narration frames Crangle as a man poisoned by prejudice, whose desire to play god leads to his downfall.

 

[MatthewG]

Idk man, people just desire what they do...


I cant see Jesus over here in america if he comes back, cause - of some scripture singly quoted "all shall see him even those who pierced him."

I did kill Jesus wth my sins, but ... God raised him up and justified sins being taken care of.

But he wasnt coming to America, or Australia.

I dont know man... people just want what they want and that is fine. People are allowed to, just like people who live in america and hate america. Or people who live in Australia hate Australia.

 

[Aunty Jane]

It seems pretty straight forward to me….Jesus gave the warning that armies would come and destroy Jerusalem and it’s Temple….but they didn’t know when…they were told only to watch for the sign and then to flee to the mountains.
It was in the year 66 C.E. that the Christian Jews in Jerusalem and Judea began to see the “disgusting thing that causes desolation, as spoken of through Daniel the prophet,” take a stand in a “holy place,” namely, Jerusalem and its environs. It was in that year that the unchristianized Jews revolted with Messianic aspirations against further rule by the Roman Empire. In reaction to this, the Roman general, Cestius Gallus, came down from Syria and surrounded Jerusalem with “encamped armies.”

Cestius Gallus brought his troops up close to the city…..and got them into the city of Jerusalem. He was indeed now in a place considered “holy” to the Jews. For five days the Romans made an attack on the temple wall, and on the sixth day they undermined the wall. This certainly was an assailing of what the Jews considered most holy. Easily the Romans could have now captured the whole city, but then, suddenly, without any valid reason for doing so, General Gallus withdrew from the city and retreated.

This was the opportunity that they had been waiting for….to flee to the mountains as Jesus had instructed.
Any who stayed in the city, or who entered it, thinking that they were not coming back, were fooled into being victims of a siege so devastating, four years later, that many died a horrible death through starvation and privation, regretting that they had not heeded Jesus’ warning.

 

[HealthyShape]

It seems pretty straight forward to me….Jesus gave the warning that armies would come and destroy Jerusalem and it’s Temple….but they didn’t know when…they were told only to watch for the sign and then to flee to the mountains.
It was in the year 66 C.E. that the Christian Jews in Jerusalem and Judea began to see the “disgusting thing that causes desolation, as spoken of through Daniel the prophet,” take a stand in a “holy place,” namely, Jerusalem and its environs. It was in that year that the unchristianized Jews revolted with Messianic aspirations against further rule by the Roman Empire. In reaction to this, the Roman general, Cestius Gallus, came down from Syria and surrounded Jerusalem with “encamped armies.”

Cestius Gallus brought his troops up close to the city…..and got them into the city of Jerusalem. He was indeed now in a place considered “holy” to the Jews. For five days the Romans made an attack on the temple wall, and on the sixth day they undermined the wall. This certainly was an assailing of what the Jews considered most holy. Easily the Romans could have now captured the whole city, but then, suddenly, without any valid reason for doing so, General Gallus withdrew from the city and retreated.

This was the opportunity that they had been waiting for….to flee to the mountains as Jesus had instructed.
Any who stayed in the city, or who entered it, thinking that they were not coming back, were fooled into being victims of a siege so devastating, four years later, that many died a horrible death through starvation and privation, regretting that they had not heeding Jesus’ warning.

For how long could they live in mountains? Years? I guess they needed to live in some city sooner or later... but those cities were also sieged by Romans later. Or controlled by fanatics or pirates/robbers.

I guess the best way was to run to Alexandria Egypt or maybe Greece... or away from the Roman empire because of the persecution, which would mean something like India or more southern Africa.

 

[Aunty Jane]

For how long could they live in mountains? Years? I guess they needed to live in some city sooner or later... but those cities were also sieged by Romans later. Or controlled by fanatics or pirates/robbers.

I guess the best way was to run to Alexandria Egypt or maybe Greece... or away from the Roman empire because of the persecution, which would mean something like India or more southern Africa.

They fled to the city of Pella, which was a neutral city having no animosity towards the Jews.
With just the clothing on their backs, and a few provisions, told not to pick up their belongings, they obeyed Jesus’ directive.
They settled in Pella and started a new life. They left their homes and businesses, confident that they had done the right thing. But years passed and the Romans had not come back to finish what they started.

The escapees anxiously waited for word of the city’s fate, but no news came....would they be tempted to go back because of what they left behind? This was a test of obedience for them. Any who did go back would have been caught by the sudden return of the Roman troops, under General Titus, who besieged the city and trapped its inhabitants inside with no food or water. Pointed stakes were placed outside the walls to prevent escape.
It was said that if a child died its parents would eat its body out of desperation for food.

How grateful those obedient ones were that they were not tempted to disobey their Lord, just on appearances only. Things can happen suddenly, without warning and change everything in the blink of an eye.

What is the lesson for us?