Not a future seeing Jesus coming guy

[Douggg]

Matt 16:27 For the Son of Man is going to come with his angels in the glory of his Father, and then he will repay each person according to what he has done.
Matt 16:28 Truly, I say to you, there are some standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.”

Did it happen as Jesus said ?

No CNN is those days but the historian Josephus wrote :

Actually, those two verses are two parts of Jesus's coming. First, He had to leave (part 1) and then His return (part 2)

Matthew 16:27 is about Jesus's return. coming with His angels in the great glory given to Him by the Father.

Matthew 16:28 is about Jesus's ascension to heaven from the mount of Olives in Acts 1. The two angels in Acts 1:10-11 informed the disciples that they (their Jewish descendants) will see Jesus return in like manner, i.e. coming in the clouds - which is the Matthew 16:27 verse.

Acts 1:
9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.

10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;

11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

12 Then returned they unto Jerusalem from the mount called Olivet, which is from Jerusalem a sabbath day's journey.

 

[HealthyShape]

Matthew 16:27 is about Jesus's return. coming with His angels in the great glory given to Him by the Father.

Matthew 16:28 is about Jesus's ascension to heaven from the mount of Olives in Acts 1.

Do you truly see this sudden switch in the text or are you just looking for any explanation to keep your view working?

When they persecute you in one town, flee to the next. Truly I tell you, you will not reach all the towns of Israel before the Son of Man comes.
Matthew 10:23

Now, try to apply the ascension to heaven to this.

 

[Douggg]

Do you truly see this sudden switch in the text or are you just looking for any explanation to keep your view working?

When they persecute you in one town, flee to the next. Truly I tell you, you will not reach all the towns of Israel before the Son of Man comes.
Matthew 10:23

Now, try to apply the ascension to heaven to this.

The disciples of Jesus were sent out by Jesus to travel throughout Israel to announce that the kingdom of God was near at hand.

In Matthew 21, Jesus arrived in Jerusalem riding a donkey, which is the Son of Man coming to Jerusalem as their King. Which is what Matthew 10:23 is speaking about.

 

[HealthyShape]

In Matthew 21, Jesus arrived in Jerusalem riding a donkey, which is the Son of Man coming to Jerusalem as their King. Which is what Matthew 10:23 is speaking about.

Your interpretation of the coming of Jesus in various verses is very... peculiar.

When did this happen:
When the owner of the vineyard comes, He will crush the wicked tenants [the chief priest and Pharisees] and will give the kingdom of God to another nation
Mt 21.33

 

[MatthewG]

Hello @Douggg,

I went ahead and just asked Microsoft Co-pilot where you get your theology from? While your interperation is based with scripture, for me personally it doesn't hold much water but that is just my opinion.

Grace and peace,
Matthew

~~~ Your viewpoints.

Where does this person get this view from?

Douggg

We live in a world full of violence and war. When Jesus returns bringing the kingdom of heaven to earth, He will rule the nations with a rod iron, and men will learn war no more. Men will beat their swords into plowshares.

This view draws heavily from biblical prophecy, particularly from passages in Isaiah, Micah, and Revelation, which describe the future reign of Jesus Christ and the transformation of human society under His rule. Here's a breakdown of the sources and theological context behind it:

Scriptural Foundations
• Isaiah 2:4
“He shall judge between the nations, and shall decide disputes for many peoples; and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruning hooks; nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war anymore.”
• This verse is a cornerstone of the vision of peace under divine rule, often quoted in both religious and secular contexts.
• Micah 4:3
• Nearly identical to Isaiah 2:4, reinforcing the prophetic expectation that war will cease when God's kingdom is fully established.
• Revelation 19:15
“From His mouth comes a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations, and He will rule them with a rod of iron.”
• This imagery of Jesus ruling with a rod of iron reflects divine authority, justice, and unbreakable sovereignty during His millennial reign.
• Psalm 2:9
“You shall break them with a rod of iron and dash them in pieces like a potter’s vessel.”
• Often interpreted as a messianic prophecy, pointing to Christ's future governance over rebellious nations.

Theological Interpretation
• This view is common in premillennial eschatology, which teaches that Jesus will return before a literal thousand-year reign on earth (the Millennium).
• It emphasizes:
• The current brokenness of the world (violence, war).
• The hope of divine intervention through Christ’s return.
• A transformation of human nature and society, where tools of war become tools of cultivation—symbolizing peace and restoration.

Symbolism and Hope
• “Swords into plowshares” is a powerful metaphor for:
• The end of conflict.
• The redirection of human effort from destruction to productivity.
• The fulfillment of God's justice and peace

 

[Douggg]

Hello @Douggg,

I went ahead and just asked Microsoft Co-pilot where you get your theology from? While your interperation is based with scripture, for me personally it doesn't hold much water for me.

Grace and peace,
Matthew

~~~ Your viewpoints.


Douggg


This view draws heavily from biblical prophecy, particularly from passages in Isaiah, Micah, and Revelation, which describe the future reign of Jesus Christ and the transformation of human society under His rule. Here's a breakdown of the sources and theological context behind it:

Scriptural Foundations
• Isaiah 2:4
“He shall judge between the nations, and shall decide disputes for many peoples; and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruning hooks; nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war anymore.”
• This verse is a cornerstone of the vision of peace under divine rule, often quoted in both religious and secular contexts.
• Micah 4:3
• Nearly identical to Isaiah 2:4, reinforcing the prophetic expectation that war will cease when God's kingdom is fully established.
• Revelation 19:15
“From His mouth comes a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations, and He will rule them with a rod of iron.”
• This imagery of Jesus ruling with a rod of iron reflects divine authority, justice, and unbreakable sovereignty during His millennial reign.
• Psalm 2:9
“You shall break them with a rod of iron and dash them in pieces like a potter’s vessel.”
• Often interpreted as a messianic prophecy, pointing to Christ's future governance over rebellious nations.

Theological Interpretation
• This view is common in premillennial eschatology, which teaches that Jesus will return before a literal thousand-year reign on earth (the Millennium).
• It emphasizes:
• The current brokenness of the world (violence, war).
• The hope of divine intervention through Christ’s return.
• A transformation of human nature and society, where tools of war become tools of cultivation—symbolizing peace and restoration.

Symbolism and Hope
• “Swords into plowshares” is a powerful metaphor for:
• The end of conflict.
• The redirection of human effort from destruction to productivity.
• The fulfillment of God's justice and peace

I am a futurist, premil, non-denominational, non-dispensationist. I also don't hold to replacement theology.

 

[MatthewG]

I am a futurist, premil, non-denominational, non-dispensationist. I also don't hold to replacement theology.

Douggg,

I really appreciate your heart—your desire to see war end and peace take root is beautiful. It’s clear you carry that longing deeply, and I respect that. I’m not here to argue or go in circles about beliefs—we’ve all seen how draining that can get.

What matters most is that you’re grounded in your own heart, and that God sees your love—real, sincere, the kind Yeshua calls us to walk in. That’s the core. That’s what counts.

 

[Douggg]

Your interpretation of the coming of Jesus in various verses is very... peculiar.

When did this happen:
When the owner of the vineyard comes, He will crush the wicked tenants [the chief priest and Pharisees] and will give the kingdom of God to another nation
Mt 21.33

The Jewish religious leaders of that generation rejected Jesus and the kingdom of God. Thus, the kingdom of God will be given to another generation of the nation of Israel.

The Jews en-masse will turn to Jesus and the gospel of salvation in the middle of the 7 year 70th week, in Revelation 12:10 - after a bad experience of thinking the Antichrist was their messiah.

 

[Muna]

Douggg,

I really appreciate your heart—your desire to see war end and peace take root is beautiful. It’s clear you carry that longing deeply, and I respect that. I’m not here to argue or go in circles about beliefs—we’ve all seen how draining that can get.

What matters most is that you’re grounded in your own heart, and that God sees your love—real, sincere, the kind Yeshua calls us to walk in. That’s the core. That’s what counts.

Are you still running your responses thru AI?

At least remove those em dashes to make it a little bit more believable you are responding from a real, rather than artificial heart

 

[MatthewG]

Hello @Truly,

It’s not about what I use or don’t use. If something helps me communicate clearly without sounding like a pretentious know-it-all, I’m all for it.

Thank you,
Matthew

 

[MatthewG]

Just so people know. I do like communicating with other people. I like to be able to communicate in a meaningful and constructive way if it is possible. I get tired of my own self and my own writings sometimes because I know how they come off. Most of the time they are very cold and directive. Thankfully, here lately I would like to make a change in the way I communicate as the more gentle and friendly the tone the better the reception that will be had. I wrote this all myself. I think when I do write, and I ask "Microsoft Co-pilot" to help me with what I am saying in rewriting it professionally, or having a friendlier tone, even for it to add scripture, it exteremly helpful not only for myself to be able to have to read, but the whole in general.

While people may have an issue with Ai, it's got its good and bad sides... I typically have stayed with and stuck with using "Microsoft Co-pilot" as it is a highly unbiased ai, and gives me information even when I can't understand what someone has written out, by copying text and asking "what is this person talking about?" It helps break down their view points and what they are bringing even expressing their tone.

Im a highschool drop out, not a professional, but I like being professional and trying to hold myself that way, though I can easily get annoyed and still have downfalls cause all of us suffer and all of us have weakness and may the resurrected Lord Jesus Christ, help me with his strength to get by.

I wrote all of this myself, yay! Go me! Pats my self on the back.

 

[HealthyShape]

The Jewish religious leaders of that generation rejected Jesus and the kingdom of God. Thus, the kingdom of God will be given to another generation of the nation of Israel.

The Jews en-masse will turn to Jesus and the gospel of salvation in the middle of the 7 year 70th week, in Revelation 12:10 - after a bad experience of thinking the Antichrist was their messiah.

My question was when did Jesus crush the chief priests and the Pharisees. They knew He was talking about them and Jesus said it will be in His coming.

They are not there anymore, so it had to happen in the past. What year and event do you propose?

“Therefore, when the owner of the vineyard comes, what will he do to those tenants?”
“He will bring those wretches to a wretched end,” they replied, “and he will rent the vineyard to other tenants, who will give him his share of the crop at harvest time"....

...Therefore I tell you that the kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a nation that will produce its fruit. Anyone who falls on this stone will be broken to pieces; anyone on whom it falls will be crushed.”
When the chief priests and the Pharisees heard Jesus’ parables, they knew he was talking about them.
Mt 21:40-45

 

[Muna]

Hello @Truly,

It’s not about what I use or don’t use. If something helps me communicate clearly without sounding like a pretentious know-it-all, I’m all for it.

Thank you,
Matthew

True, it does have a tendency to filter/remove parts of our humanity that are less attractive and set us into a better light.

Its still pretentious to use it in an ongoing back and forth conversation, as if it is me speaking.

 

[Douggg]

My question was when did Jesus crush the chief priests and the Pharisees. They knew He was talking about them and Jesus said it will be in His coming.

Hi HealthyShape,

I don't think Jesus said that the parable that the chief priests and the Pharisees would be crushed - at His coming. The chief priests and the Pharisees did suffer the 70 AD event. But that was not Jesus's coming.

In the parable, the husbandmen (the chiref priests and the Pharisees) were responsible for killing servants of the owner of the vineyard. And then also killing the owner's son (Jesus). verses 37-39.

 

[Dave Watchman]

All he did was talk to those Jewish people.

That He did. But now He sent His Church across old Europe, and over the sands of the sea to the USA, to a Nation that would bear it's fruit. The "earth" has already helped the "woman".

Jesus still hasnt shown up. He must have shown up to that first century bride - I believe in faith.

No one continues to prove Jesus is showing up in america, or any other country either anyway... he was foretold to bring forth judgement concerning ISrael.

He did show up, right on schedule. He made a special Visitation in 1969 when He met with His servant Isaac Newton at the museum in Jerusalem. Then He had a very important meeting with with His servant Levi Eshkol at the Knesset. Then He did a bunch more things in 1969 before returning to heaven, not the least of which was the making of Big Red, Secretariat. That was the Horse that God made.

Big Red's mother was Something Royal, his Dad's name was Bold Ruler. Big Red remains on the top 200 list of athletes of the century, in the top 50, beating many human athletes to this very day. 1969 was rock and roll time, Spirit in the Sky, Bad Moon Rising, and Oh Happy Day hit the top 10 all over the world. Even Europe. Gotta have a Friend in Jesus.

The Secret is in Secretariat.

"Do you give the horse his strength?​

Then Jesus showed up again right on time in 2018, the "time" was fulfilled again, and the Kingdom of God was at hand.. At North Sentinel Island, where He met with his servant John Chau. You just had to catch Him out of the corner of your eye. Just look, and then sort of look away. Like Marlon Brando catching a glimpse of the Star of Bethlehem in the Missouri Breaks.

They say about this time of year, Indian Summer, getting there, they say you can see the Star of Bethlehem. If you look real good. I seen it once or twice. But you gotta look away and then you gottta look at it see? You gotta look just and blink like that see? See what I mean?

Old Granny's Getting Tired.

Jesus just left Chicago
And He's bound for New Orleans
Well now, Jesus just left Chicago
And He's bound for New Orleans, yeah
Working from one end to the other
And all points in between

Took a jog through Mississippi
Well, muddy water turned to wine
Took a jog through Mississippi
Muddy water turned to wine, yeah
Then out to California
Through the forests and the pines
Ah, take me with you, Jesus

You might not see Him in Person
But He'll see you just the same
You might not see Him in Person
But He'll see you just the same, hey
You don't have to worry
Because taking care of business is His Name

[Instrumental Outro]

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I am not disagreeing with that part.

Then why are you talking about some Antichrist doing something totally unexpected in relation to the day of the Lord when there is nothing written in scripture about that?

In the text of 1Thessalonians5, it is the day of the Lord comes like a thief in night.

Near the end of the 7 years, there is a passage in Revelation 16 that Jesus also comes like a thief in the night.

The day of the Lord is the day that the Lord Jesus will come as a thief in the night. You might notice that He brings some destruction when He comes, according to Revelation 19. That's the same "sudden destruction" that will occur upon the arrival of the day of the Lord as a thief in the night that Paul wrote about in 1 Thessalonians 5:2-3 and that Peter wrote about in 2 Peter 3:10-12.

The term "like a thief in the night" means something totally unexpected.

LOL. Why do you think I brought up 1 Thessalonians 5:2-3? Because you talked about something totally unexpected happening in relation to the day of the Lord. So, I showed you a passage that talks about the totally unexpected "sudden destruction" that will occur when the day of the Lord comes as a thief in the night.

So in 1Thessalonians5, it the day of the Lord beginning (when God's wrath will be poured out).

Then later into the day of the Lord, near the end of the 7 years, the sign of the Son of Man appearing in heaven will totally unexpected take place.

How can you talk about "later into the day of the Lord" when Paul said there will be "sudden destruction" occurring immediately upon the arrival of the day of the Lord as a thief in the night? We can see what will bring about that sudden destruction in 2 Peter 3:10-12. It will be caused by fire coming down on the earth. The day of the Lord is a literal day during which Jesus will come unexpectedly to take vengeance on all who don't know God and those who don't obey the gospel of Jesus Christ (2 Thess 1:7-10).

The transgression of desolation act is in Daniel 8:13. It is an act, not an image set up (the abomination of desolation). What the Antichrist does in 2Thessalonians2:4 is an act - right ?

I don't agree with your understanding of a future Antichrist. I've told you that many times. So, asking me a question like that makes no sense. But, you claimed this supposed future act by a supposed Antichrist will be totally unexpected. What is that based on?

"desolation" in both cases refers to the temple being made desolate from the worship and praise of the One True God.

I appreciate the discussion. Nothing personal in my disagreement, okay ?

Yes, that's fine. My problem is with your doctrine, not you, personally. Okay?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

You kinda got that mixed up. In 1Thessalonians5, it is the day of the Lord beginning like a thief in the night. Jesus returns later around 4 years after the peace and safety illusion ends.

day 1...........3 years, peace and safety........ToD act............the AoD setup (day 1185)................ day 2520 Jesus returns down to earth.

You have that completely mixed up. Jesus can't return 4 years after the day of the Lord begins when both Paul, in 1 Thess 5:2-3, and Peter, in 2 Peter 3:10-12, talk about mass destruction happening immediately upon the arrival of the day of the Lord like a thief in the night. Unbelievers will be completely oblivious while doing their normal activities (eating, drinking, marrying, etc.) like in the days of Noah before the flood and then "sudden destruction" (1 Thess 5:2-3) by fire (2 Peter 3:10-12, 2 Thess 1:7-8) will come upon them and upon the earth when Jesus comes like a thief in the night. Your attempt to turn the day of the Lord into a 7 year event just doesn't work and doesn't fit the texts related to the day of the Lord.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

We live in a world full of violence and war. When Jesus returns bringing the kingdom of heaven to earth, He will rule the nations with a rod iron, and men will learn war no more. Men will beat their swords into plowshares.

You didn't address what I said. I'm not saying this is the case, but you come across as if you didn't believe in spiritual things that are unseen and you only believe in things that you can physically see. We are spiritually in the kingdom of God/heaven/Christ right now. When Jesus returns, we will see Jesus in all of His glory and see the kingdom in its fullness in the new heavens and new earth, but that doesn't mean we are not spiritually in the kingdom right now.

Romans 14:17 for the kingdom of God is not eating and drinking, but righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit.

 

[MatthewG]

True, it does have a tendency to filter/remove parts of our humanity that are less attractive and set us into a better light.

Its still pretentious to use it in an ongoing back and forth conversation, as if it is me speaking.

Truly,

Okay.

Grace and peace,
Matthew

 

[MatthewG]

That He did. But now He sent His Church across old Europe, and over the sands of the sea to the USA, to a Nation that would bear it's fruit. The "earth" has already helped the "woman".

He did show up, right on schedule. He made a special Visitation in 1969 when He met with His servant Isaac Newton at the museum in Jerusalem. Then He had a very important meeting with with His servant Levi Eshkol at the Knesset. Then He did a bunch more things in 1969 before returning to heaven, not the least of which was the making of Big Red, Secretariat. That was the Horse that God made.

Big Red's mother was Something Royal, his Dad's name was Bold Ruler. Big Red remains on the top 200 list of athletes of the century, in the top 50, beating many human athletes to this very day. 1969 was rock and roll time, Spirit in the Sky, Bad Moon Rising, and Oh Happy Day hit the top 10 all over the world. Even Europe. Gotta have a Friend in Jesus.

The Secret is in Secretariat.

"Do you give the horse his strength?​

Then Jesus showed up again right on time in 2018, the "time" was fulfilled again, and the Kingdom of God was at hand.. At North Sentinel Island, where He met with his servant John Chau. You just had to catch Him out of the corner of your eye. Just look, and then sort of look away. Like Marlon Brando catching a glimpse of the Star of Bethlehem in the Missouri Breaks.

They say about this time of year, Indian Summer, getting there, they say you can see the Star of Bethlehem. If you look real good. I seen it once or twice. But you gotta look away and then you gottta look at it see? You gotta look just and blink like that see? See what I mean?

Old Granny's Getting Tired.

Jesus just left Chicago
And He's bound for New Orleans
Well now, Jesus just left Chicago
And He's bound for New Orleans, yeah
Working from one end to the other
And all points in between

Took a jog through Mississippi
Well, muddy water turned to wine
Took a jog through Mississippi
Muddy water turned to wine, yeah
Then out to California
Through the forests and the pines
Ah, take me with you, Jesus

You might not see Him in Person
But He'll see you just the same
You might not see Him in Person
But He'll see you just the same, hey
You don't have to worry
Because taking care of business is His Name

[Instrumental Outro]

Davewatchman,

Thank you for sharing what you believe to be. I'm glad that God changes the heart.

Grace and peace,
Matthew