Not a future seeing Jesus coming guy
- Thread starter MatthewG
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Hello HealthyShape,
In the end it will be the heart of the person, and what they lived, as far as I am concerned. We all know what we epsouse and put out there, will be responsible for it? Perhaps so. Was it all in love? Only God can tell. There are many people who are confused, challenged, perplexed, and some of them not wanting to tear down the built building they have built for themselves, and I can understand that completely. All people will have to be convinced in their own mind. This is why I decided to no longer entertain Dougs post. There is no reason to do so. He will continue to espouse his beliefs, and that is all there is to it.
Grace, and peace,
Matthew
Considering this is the top thread currently on Eschtology, with it's responses, what better effort to be made to try to gain traction on a specific view anyway... I've done encouraged him to make his own threads.
Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
According to Peter the destruction that will occur because of God's wrath on the day of the Lord will be global and will result in the burning up of the earth, so your understanding of the 7 vials is flawed. Where does it say that all 7 vials occur during the day of the Lord? Nowhere.
2 Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up. 11 Therefore, since all these things will be dissolved, what manner of persons ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness, 12 looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be dissolved, being on fire, and the elements will melt with fervent heat?
The "sudden destruction" that Paul said will occur when the day of the Lord comes as a thief in the night will be caused by fire coming down on the entire earth. You need to allow the clear, straightforward text found in 1 Thessalonians 5:2-3 and 2 Peter 3:10-12 to help you in your understanding of the book of Revelation. You can see in the following text that Jesus will not have come as a thief yet as of the time of the sixth vial, so why are you associating all of the vials with the day of the Lord that will come as a thief in the night?
Revelation 16:12 And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared. 13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet. 14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty. 15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.
Based on this text, it's not possible for the day of the Lord to come as a thief in the night until some time after the sixth vial events. There's only one more vial after that, so you should only relate the seventh vial to the day of the Lord that will come like a thief, not all seven vials.
Hello to the group,
I have no reason to jump in to respond to anyone.
Just want to say thank you to all the particpants who taken time to share their view or make a comment, everyone already knows where I personally stand concerning the topic itself.
Grace and peace,
Matthew
I have no reason to jump in to respond to anyone.
Just want to say thank you to all the particpants who taken time to share their view or make a comment, everyone already knows where I personally stand concerning the topic itself.
Grace and peace,
Matthew
During the day of the Lord, God's wrath will be poured out.
1Thessalonians5:
2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,
10 Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.
11 Wherefore comfort yourselves together, and edify one another, even as also ye do.
The day of the Lord cannot be a single 24 hour day as you are claiming, because the wrath of God in the seven vials of God's wrath in Revelation cannot take place in a single 24 hour day.
Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
As usual, you didn't actually address what I said. I showed that the destruction that occurs upon the arrival of the day of the Lord as a thief in the night will be global by referencing 2 Peter 3:10-12 and you just completely ignore that. It's sad that you are not willing to actually address anyone else's arguments and all you do is just repeat the same things over and over again instead.
Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
Show me where that is taught in scripture. Quote the scriptures which indicate that the day of the Lord begins before the day that Jesus will come as a thief in the night.
The world will be saying peace and safety when the day of the Lord suddenly begins. The world will not be in great tribulation at that time - or it would not be saying peace and safety.
Differently, Jesus coming like a thief in the night in Revelation 16 is near the end of the great tribulation. Jesus will suddenly appear as the sixth seal takes place, as the sign of the Son of man in heaven (Matthew 24:30a)
The kings' of the earth reaction will be to assemble their armies at Armageddon to prepare to make war on Jesus and his army of heaven. Right before Jesus descends to earth, the 7th vial of God's wrath will be poured out. See the second chart down below. The 7th vial is on it, lower right hand corner.
We can be grateful that today is not the day we must face the end times—what a blessing to live in this moment with peace and purpose.
Praise the Lord!
There are many individuals who sincerely believe in what they teach and preach. Still, it’s wise to exercise discernment. Be mindful of whom you choose to follow or trust—including me.
Let this be an encouragement to seek truth directly from Scripture. Manufactured images and sensational visuals hold no eternal weight compared to the Bible.
Praise the Lord!
There are many individuals who sincerely believe in what they teach and preach. Still, it’s wise to exercise discernment. Be mindful of whom you choose to follow or trust—including me.
Let this be an encouragement to seek truth directly from Scripture. Manufactured images and sensational visuals hold no eternal weight compared to the Bible.
You find that those people were living in the last days, when Peter quotes Joel in Acts.
It sucks people just don't care about the people that are mentioned in the bible at all...
They just make it about themselves... like that "Left behind series."
In the first post you see my own reasonings by use of the bible compared to all the riff-raff of what others may believe.
Everyone has the right to believe whatever you want, especially in America. We got the 1st and 2nd amendments.
www.christianityboard.com
It sucks people just don't care about the people that are mentioned in the bible at all...
They just make it about themselves... like that "Left behind series."
In the first post you see my own reasonings by use of the bible compared to all the riff-raff of what others may believe.
Everyone has the right to believe whatever you want, especially in America. We got the 1st and 2nd amendments.
Not a future seeing Jesus coming guy
Im not a future jesus coming through the clouds today guy. I believe its apparent for most on the board I am not. Jesus walked around and reading those Gospels he talked to the Jews. Paul wrote to saints. there is no saints today. Not gonna change - some call it pride. Im thankful that the...
www.christianityboard.com
Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
The context of people saying "peace and safety" is not in relation to the state of the world, but in relation to their own spiritual status. You apparently did not look at the context of 1 Thessalonians 5:2-3. So, let's look at it so that you can learn something.
1 Thessalonians 5:2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. 3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape. 4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief. 5 Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness. 6 Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.
Notice here that Paul said Christians, unlike non-Christians, are not in spiritual darkness, but are instead "children of light" and he said that the day of the Lord will not overtake believers as a thief. While we don't know exactly when it will happen, we are expecting it, so we won't be caught completely off guard like unbelievers who are in spiritual darkness will. So, the context of those saying "peace and safety" is in relation to their spiritual status. Because they are in spiritual darkness, they think that they are spiritually at peace and are safe from God's wrath. That is the context of them saying "peace and safety". Do you see any reference in that passage to the conditions of the world? No. It's all about each person's spiritual condition of either being in spiritual darkness or spiritual light. Those who are in spiritual darkness will find out when the day of the Lord comes that they are not spiritually safe after all as "sudden destruction" comes upon them from which "they shall not escape".
There is no basis whatsoever for thinking that Jesus coming like a thief in the night is any different than the day of the Lord coming as a thief in the night. The day that He comes as a thief in the night is the day of the Lord.
I don't waste my time looking at your charts. How many times do I have to tell you that before you believe it?
Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
If you read Acts 2:16-21, Peter indicated that the last days related directly to a time when God would pour His Spirit out on people and during which people would call on the name of the Lord to be saved. Do you think that God is no longer pouring out His Spirit on people and do you think that people are no longer calling on the name of the Lord to be saved?
Futurists do that, but preterists like you make it as if it isn't also about us, but it is.
Hello Spiritual Israelite,
Are you looking for me to change my mind somehow? Or have a meaningful dialogue? I hide your comments, just like dougs. You can watch my video if you wanna go through that you'll find out pretty quickly what I believe.
Grace and peace,
Matthew
Are you looking for me to change my mind somehow? Or have a meaningful dialogue? I hide your comments, just like dougs. You can watch my video if you wanna go through that you'll find out pretty quickly what I believe.
Grace and peace,
Matthew
Here is the video I made this morning, in the reasons why I believe as I do.
People will either watch or do not. I believe it cut through a lot of dialogue of going back and forth on here though for many people.
I believe we all are given the ability to walk in the resurrected Spirit of Jesus Christ... when we believe and in the death, burial, and resurrection.
We just don't gotta go through what those people did today.
You will suffer in your own way, as you go about life.
People will either watch or do not. I believe it cut through a lot of dialogue of going back and forth on here though for many people.
I believe we all are given the ability to walk in the resurrected Spirit of Jesus Christ... when we believe and in the death, burial, and resurrection.
We just don't gotta go through what those people did today.
You will suffer in your own way, as you go about life.
Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
No, I am aware that can't be done. I post for the benefit of others to learn. I know that you are not teachable.
I already know what you believe. This is a public forum and I can respond to any post I want. You should not be offended just because I responded directly to your post. You have responded directly to me as well. This is a place where people discuss things together. If you're not interested in that, then go somewhere else where you can just post things for people to read without any response or discussion being expected.
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Hello Si,
I am uninterested in discussing with people who do not want to change their mind. I don't mind discussing with one and hearing them out but once you hear them out, you have nothing more to share concerning those things. I am not offended, I just find it annoying to go over the same things with people who already shared with me what they believe.
I think it is great for people share what they believe if they so choose to. I encourage people to make their own threads. I'm okay with people who don't like me, finding myself annoying. Its okay! Lol, I don't mind you trying to discuss with me but there would be no point if you don't care in the first place or want to change ones own mind.
I am comfortable where I am, that doesn't mean I don't suffer. I find it great to discuss with people who are willingly to change their minds, that is why I share just as you do we just have different contadicting views. Which is fine.
We know where stand on those things, and I would still eat with you at the dinner table, its not like I am harboring hatred.
That's why I made the video... :) So I don't have to go over and over and over.
Thank you, grace, and peace,
Matthew
I am uninterested in discussing with people who do not want to change their mind. I don't mind discussing with one and hearing them out but once you hear them out, you have nothing more to share concerning those things. I am not offended, I just find it annoying to go over the same things with people who already shared with me what they believe.
I think it is great for people share what they believe if they so choose to. I encourage people to make their own threads. I'm okay with people who don't like me, finding myself annoying. Its okay! Lol, I don't mind you trying to discuss with me but there would be no point if you don't care in the first place or want to change ones own mind.
I am comfortable where I am, that doesn't mean I don't suffer. I find it great to discuss with people who are willingly to change their minds, that is why I share just as you do we just have different contadicting views. Which is fine.
We know where stand on those things, and I would still eat with you at the dinner table, its not like I am harboring hatred.
That's why I made the video... :) So I don't have to go over and over and over.
Thank you, grace, and peace,
Matthew
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Many people just want to argue, debate, and say victory! It's all fleshly in nature.
I just share what the scripture say, and believe most people just chop the bible up and make it all about themselves.
Take “the elements shall melt with fervent heat” (2 Peter 3:10). People say, “That’s the end of the world!” But they miss the deeper truth—it was the end of their world, their temple, their covenant, their system. “Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away” (Matthew 24:35). They don’t ask what “elements” meant to Peter’s audience. They just want fire and finality.
Their whole world did pass away. Jesus words continue to remain even so after the fact, he told the truth. I believe it still good to learn from Jesus but not everything is about us, as people so make it out to be.
Ya know what I mean? However still you can't change peoples minds, only God can, and he can only do that by the holy spirit.
I just share what the scripture say, and believe most people just chop the bible up and make it all about themselves.
Take “the elements shall melt with fervent heat” (2 Peter 3:10). People say, “That’s the end of the world!” But they miss the deeper truth—it was the end of their world, their temple, their covenant, their system. “Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away” (Matthew 24:35). They don’t ask what “elements” meant to Peter’s audience. They just want fire and finality.
Their whole world did pass away. Jesus words continue to remain even so after the fact, he told the truth. I believe it still good to learn from Jesus but not everything is about us, as people so make it out to be.
Ya know what I mean? However still you can't change peoples minds, only God can, and he can only do that by the holy spirit.
Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
Yet, you are not interested in changing your mind, either, so that seems rather hypocritical.
You share the same things over and over again. But, I guess when you do it, it's perfectly fine.
People discuss things on here all the time without any real expectation that they're going to change the other person's mind. There are some people who don't post here and just lurk and read the discussions. I post for their benefit as much as anything.
I should be able to respond to any of your posts that I want. You can just ignore me if you don't want to read what I have to say. Others might want to read it, though, so that's why I do it.
I don't hate you and didn't think you hated me. I just hate your full preterist doctrine. There's a big difference. It's not personal against you. I just hate the idea of promoting a doctrine that doesn't look forward to the blessed hope of the future appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ.
I already know what you believe, so watching the video would be a complete waste of time.
