Why I don't believe in a pretrib rapture

[Bladerunner]

The church is Raptured…
Because…The Lamb of God has ALREADY …
MADE that individual WHOLE;
body, soul, spirit…
The Lamb of God (who’s Wrath is revealed First… Has NO anger Against they MADE Whole

The next is the Wrath of the Devil, which the “Saved are escaped / delivered from experiencing the Devils Wrath.

The last id God Wrath, which the Saved are escaped / delivered from experiencing Gods Wrath.

The Great Tribulation is upon the Whole World, Because of their “unrighteousness”…
During the Trib, some Will Believe and willingly give their body unto death That they become Bodily Dead And soul saved (BY God) And they bodily risen with a new body , quickened spirit, saved soul (made whole) First Resurrection.

I think it possible the “restrainer” is primarily Michael… in conjunction with the Church and Likely by, through, of the Holy Spirit.

Glory to God,
Taken

The restrainer on earth is not Michael, the archangel. It is the Holy Spirit within each of the Believers in Christ' Church, His Body, His Bride. Their voice (rules, laws and enforcement)) help keep the unrestrained evil of man at bay. Yet, at time we see the unrestrained evil that mankind is capable of (i.e. Oct 11, the killing of the Jews, Russia killing civilians instead of military is another and it goes on from one evil to the next.). They were no just killed, there were recipients of the hatred that had instilled in them for thousands of years. Once the Rapture happens and His Body of believers leave this earth, the unrestrained evil will rear its ugly head. Especially after those , Police, Military, etc. mostly have disappeared and are no longer on earth to restrain, to contain the evil that is in mankind.

 

[ProverbsInPink]

A blind person still has a soul...
ditto for a deaf person, or a person that cannot smell or taste.

A person in a coma has lost his will,,,he has lost his emotions.
These reside in the soul.
A person in a coma no longer has a soul for the above reason.

There is no intentionality.
He cannot raise his arm or cause anything to happen that is NOT ONLY physical
but ALSO of the will or the emotion.

(your post didn't copy correctly).

The soul doesn't depart the comatose body. Some cases are because the patient was put in a medically induced coma.

People do recover from a coma.
If the soul leaves the comatose body, the body is dead.

 

[Bladerunner]

The soul doesn't depart the comatose body. Some cases are because the patient was put in a medically induced coma.

The Body (mortal) is simply a container for the soul and spirit within which eternal. When the Body dies, the soul either will rest in Heaven (true Believers) or rest in Hell (unbelievers). Those in Heaven await the resurrection of their bodies (part of the first resurrection) so they might be reunited with them and changed into a body like that of Jesus, thus living in Heaven for an eternity.. Those in Hell await the second resurrection of their bodies so they might be reunited with them. However, this is short lived as the Great White Throne Judgement comes after this 2nd resurrection those found guilty are thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone where the mortal Body is completely destroyed and the soul will go to their own place for an eternal torment.

People do recover from a coma.
If the soul leaves the comatose body, the body is dead.

People do recover from a coma...as long as the body is alive the soul and the spirit is within the body. Only after death, does the soul, spirit and the body become separated.

 

[GeneZ]

Are you saying the CC is so dumb that all the theologians that came before us were too dumb to figure out that MAYBE a large part of mankind would be swept off the face of the earth so they could be spared the tribulation?

You're talking about a church that believes in purgatory.

Seems to me that the rapture would have been a good scheme to get all those dumb people to go to church and donate their money to build all these beautiful churches in Europe! Looks like the CC missed out on a good idea.

Also, it's rather proudful of you to believe that generations b Worship Mary, much?efore us were DUMB.
As if today we're super smart/intelligent because we know a bit more about science.

Truth does not change over time...
correct.
My point exactly.

No rapture in the early church...
No rapture now.

Do you worship Mary?

Do you eat the literal flesh of Jesus in communion?
And, worst of all?

Go here: Is There Really "No Salvation Outside the Catholic Church?"

Yes.... The RCC 'became' dumb and corrupted.

Their very early theologians are not followed today.

 

[Taken]

The restrainer on earth is not Michael, the archangel. It is the Holy Spirit within each of the Believers in Christ' Church, His Body, His Bride. Their voice (rules, laws and enforcement)) help keep the unrestrained evil of man at bay. Yet, at time we see the unrestrained evil that mankind is capable of (i.e. Oct 11, the killing of the Jews, Russia killing civilians instead of military is another and it goes on from one evil to the next.). They were no just killed, there were recipients of the hatred that had instilled in them for thousands of years. Once the Rapture happens and His Body of believers leave this earth, the unrestrained evil will rear its ugly head. Especially after those , Police, Military, etc. mostly have disappeared and are no longer on earth to restrain, to contain the evil that is in mankind.

Thanks.

 

[GeneZ]

The restrainer on earth is not Michael, the archangel. It is the Holy Spirit within each of the Believers in Christ' Church, His Body, His Bride. Their voice (rules, laws and enforcement)) help keep the unrestrained evil of man at bay. Yet, at time we see the unrestrained evil that mankind is capable of (i.e. Oct 11, the killing of the Jews, Russia killing civilians instead of military is another and it goes on from one evil to the next.). They were no just killed, there were recipients of the hatred that had instilled in them for thousands of years. Once the Rapture happens and His Body of believers leave this earth, the unrestrained evil will rear its ugly head. Especially after those , Police, Military, etc. mostly have disappeared and are no longer on earth to restrain, to contain the evil that is in mankind.

Salt was used as a preservative in Jesus day, not simply for making things taste better.
Salt is a restrainer against decay that ruins food.

Likewise, believers act as salt in preserving their nation.

"Now the Lord is the Spirit; and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom." 2 Cor 3:17​

Faithful believers are the salt of the earth/ land they live in.

We preserve freedom as believers, when being faithful to keep growing in God's Word and living by it.

The restrainer of Tyranny is the Holy Spirit.
When He who restrains is removed (Rapture of Christians) all hell will break loose on the earth.

Then.... Tribulation, like the world has never seen, will be upon those on earth.

We should not play games with such a serious teaching as the Rapture as some do.
Yet we see, "saltless" ones lining up to have their say.
They need to become salt (repent).

grace and peace ......

 

[Taken]

It is because of this verse here

Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God. Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things? And now you know what is restraining, that he may be revealed in his own time. For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way. And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. (2 Thess. 2:3-8)

I used to believe in a pretrib rapture but if it was true then what does this verse mean then?

Let no one deceive you

Who is “YOU”?

that Day

What is “that DAY”?

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Taken]

Do you think that the mind of the body and the soul are the same event or two different events?

The mind of the body and soul are not themselves events…

However…;
The mind is one of the processes of the Brain, which is a complex organ OF the Body.

If you realize, the Body was CREATED by the hand of God, and it’s Life is BLOOD…
The body, must, shall, mortally DIE.

And the Soul was given the body, at its Natural Birth, By God, From God, and is life is GODS BREATH…. MAKING the man Cognitively ALIVE.
It is the soul, that (may or may not enter into a process of Salvation).
It is the “living soul” that departs a dead body…and continues living…
In heaven or hell…(dependent on if it is saved or not)… until judgement day…
Saved souls continue living.
Unsaved souls? ( the life returns to God ) and the lifeless body and lifeless soul is destroyed.

Then there is the matter of the Spirit of Man…
A different “thought” process, “located in the Heart”… (the very organ that keeps a mans bodily LIFE alive).
This thought / Belief in the Heart (Natural spirit of man)…is always a mans TRUE Belief, (regardless of the thoughts, opinions, ideas of a mans MIND, which can deceive, lie, tell truths, change continually).

It is of “this Natural Spirit”, whereby a man who confesses Belief In God to Christ Jesus, and thereafter, receives the Seed of God, to REBIRTH his natural spirit to a spiritual spirit.

This spirit, (reborn) will go to heaven, if the mans spirit is born again …. (If not)? The natural spirit dies with the mans body.
( This is Gods Mercy for the unsaved… that THEY are not given a “born again” spirit that can never die … or THEY would live eternally, separated from God, in the Lake of Fire…as will be the case FOR Fallen Angels (Devils / Demons).

So sort of… EVENTS… of how and when (Created AND Made), man is made Whole…
Body, soul, spirit…. And becomes, step by step, made holy whole, body, soul, spirit…and with God Forever…
OR NOT!

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[GodsGrace]

The soul doesn't depart the comatose body. Some cases are because the patient was put in a medically induced coma.

People do recover from a coma.
If the soul leaves the comatose body, the body is dead.

I agree.
I posted after the one you read but will not take the time to search for it.
If a person is in a coma, the soul is still in the body.

 

[GodsGrace]

Do you worship Mary?

Do you eat the literal flesh of Jesus in communion?
And, worst of all?

Go here: Is There Really "No Salvation Outside the Catholic Church?"

Yes.... The RCC 'became' dumb and corrupted.

Their very early theologians are not followed today.

Sorry for the delay.
Just to say that I really don't know why you're asking such questions.

As to the early theologians not being followed today...
I'd have to agree.

I'd love to ask WHEN you believe the CC became dumb....
but I doubt this is the place.

 

[GeneZ]

Sorry for the delay.
Just to say that I really don't know why you're asking such questions.

As to the early theologians not being followed today...
I'd have to agree.

I'd love to ask WHEN you believe the CC became dumb....
but I doubt this is the place.

Peter warned that it would not take very long after he was gone (for even his own congregation) to become tested for being dumbed down.

But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. ​

They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them​

—bringing swift destruction on themselves. Many will follow their depraved conduct and will bring ​

the way of truth into disrepute." 2 Peter 2:1-2​

​

​

/​

 

[GodsGrace]

Peter warned that it would not take very long after he was gone (for even his own congregation) to become tested for being dumbed down.

But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. ​

They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them​

—bringing swift destruction on themselves. Many will follow their depraved conduct and will bring ​

the way of truth into disrepute." 2 Peter 2:1-2​

​

​

/​

So are you saying that you're a false teacher?
Since you're teaching something that was never taught in the early church?
And you're denying the sovereign Lord?

How about
James 3:1
1 Let not many of you become teachers, my brethren, knowing that as such we will incur a stricter judgment.

 

[GeneZ]

So are you saying that you're a false teacher?
Since you're teaching something that was never taught in the early church?
And you're denying the sovereign Lord?

How about
James 3:1
1 Let not many of you become teachers, my brethren, knowing that as such we will incur a stricter judgment.

Besides.... The Rapture was taught in the earliest church.

 

[GodsGrace]

Besides.... The Rapture was taught in the earliest church.

You're going to have to prove this.
Your statement alone does not make it so.

I provided information for you showing how the rapture is a new idea from the past 200 years brought by a specific person.

Can you do the same?
Please show the rapture being mentioned in some writing of the first or second century.

Thanks.

 

[Bladerunner]

The mind of the body and soul are not themselves events…

However…;
The mind is one of the processes of the Brain, which is a complex organ OF the Body.

If you realize, the Body was CREATED by the hand of God, and it’s Life is BLOOD…
The body, must, shall, mortally DIE.

And the Soul was given the body, at its Natural Birth, By God, From God, and is life is GODS BREATH…. MAKING the man Cognitively ALIVE.
It is the soul, that (may or may not enter into a process of Salvation).
It is the “living soul” that departs a dead body…and continues living…
In heaven or hell…(dependent on if it is saved or not)… until judgement day…
Saved souls continue living.
Unsaved souls? ( the life returns to God ) and the lifeless body and lifeless soul is destroyed.

Then there is the matter of the Spirit of Man…
A different “thought” process, “located in the Heart”… (the very organ that keeps a mans bodily LIFE alive).
This thought / Belief in the Heart (Natural spirit of man)…is always a mans TRUE Belief, (regardless of the thoughts, opinions, ideas of a mans MIND, which can deceive, lie, tell truths, change continually).

It is of “this Natural Spirit”, whereby a man who confesses Belief In God to Christ Jesus, and thereafter, receives the Seed of God, to REBIRTH his natural spirit to a spiritual spirit.

This spirit, (reborn) will go to heaven, if the mans spirit is born again …. (If not)? The natural spirit dies with the mans body.

The spirit and Soul of every man is immortal. The body (container) on the other hand is indeed mortal and will die, decay back into the dust it came from.

( This is Gods Mercy for the unsaved… that THEY are not given a “born again” spirit that can never die … or THEY would live eternally, separated from God, in the Lake of Fire…as will be the case FOR Fallen Angels (Devils / Demons).

So sort of… EVENTS… of how and when (Created AND Made), man is made Whole…
Body, soul, spirit…. And becomes, step by step, made holy whole, body, soul, spirit…and with God Forever…
OR NOT!

Glory to God,
Taken

No you are playing games,,, "Please show me where it says the "Rapture" will happen. You and I both know that it is only available in the Latin version of the NT. (Rapimere).......

 

[GeneZ]

You're going to have to prove this.
Your statement alone does not make it so.

I provided information for you showing how the rapture is a new idea from the past 200 years brought by a specific person.

Can you do the same?
Please show the rapture being mentioned in some writing of the first or second century.

Thanks.

It was mentioned by Paul....

.......l.

 

[GodsGrace]

It was mentioned by Paul....

.......l.

Ah. I see.

So a verse taken out of context by some,
1,800 years AFTER the ascension of Jesus....
Who was SUPPOSED to be the ultimate and last revelation of God...
has now become part of mainline Christianity.
Not so GeneZ.
Major denominations to NOT accept the theory of a rapture because it does not exist....
and this is the reason why you will NOT find it in any writing----
because it was not even CONSIDERED.

But you can believe it if you wish to....
not a salvation issue.

It would just be nice if we Christians used some common sense.
How could ANY belief that appeared only 1 or 2 hundred years ago by a specific person be correct?

Just hoping you consider this.
The same holds true for JWs,
Latter Day Saints,
etc.

God bless you.

 

[Taken]

The spirit and Soul of every man is immortal.

Disagree.

The body (container) on the other hand is indeed mortal and will die, decay back into the dust it came from.

No you are playing games,,, "Please show me where it says the "Rapture" will happen. You and I both know that it is only available in the Latin version of the NT. (Rapimere).......

Show me WHERE THEY IN Christ ARE Required to Suffer the Tribulations AND Wrath (to be) sent down from heaven.

 

[GeneZ]

Ah. I see.

So a verse taken out of context by some,
1,800 years AFTER the ascension of Jesus....
Who was SUPPOSED to be the ultimate and last revelation of God...
has now become part of mainline Christianity.
Not so GeneZ.
Major denominations to NOT accept the theory of a rapture because it does not exist....
and this is the reason why you will NOT find it in any writing----
because it was not even CONSIDERED.

But you can believe it if you wish to....
not a salvation issue.

It would just be nice if we Christians used some common sense.
How could ANY belief that appeared only 1 or 2 hundred years ago by a specific person be correct?

Just hoping you consider this.
The same holds true for JWs,
Latter Day Saints,
etc.

God bless you.

You're a man on a mission, I see.....

You can do it boy!
Destroy their hope!


1 Thessalonians 4:16-18

"For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the archangel’s voice, and with the trumpet of​

God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are still alive, who are left, will be caught up together​

with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord. Therefore encourage​

one another with these words.​

Did you note?

Therefore encourage one another with these words.​

I find you totally discouraging.
Not, the words of Paul.



.

 

[Bladerunner]

Disagree.





Show me WHERE THEY IN Christ ARE Required to Suffer the Tribulations AND Wrath (to be) sent down from heaven.

your the one who does not believe in the immortal soul.