What does God's character tell us about the Bible?

[St. SteVen]

The Bible is not confusing to me. God’s expectations from us, and promises to us, are laid out over many books, and clarified once and for all by Jesus (with elaboration by the Apostles).

Could it have been clearer? Sure, but remember it is humans with the brains God gave them that communicated God’s intent (exception: Jesus, from whom we receive the clearest expectations).

Analogy: A 2nd grader has just finished a week of VBS, and is asked to write down the principles of Christian theology. What might we expect? It is perhaps thus that God’s whispers to the faithful were received and written down.

Thanks for your awesome post.
It reminded me of an analogy as well.

If you know anything about multi-cylinder gasoline engines, you know what a cam is.
The cam shaft turns as the engine runs. The cam has a bump in it that pushes the cam rod to open the cylinder valve.
Anyway...

The cam is circular except for the bump that pushes the cam rod to open the valve.
The round part of the cam is called the dwell.

The point is that you have found that dwell spot to live in despite the bumps that come at us continually.
The truth is in the dwell, not in the bumps.

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[Charlie24]

You say that like it's a bad thing. - LOL

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The UR is the bad thing, not you still here on the forums after all this time.

 

[St. SteVen]

The UR is the bad thing, not you still here on the forums after all this time.

Thanks.
Can you accept that there are three biblical views of the final judgment?
And that UR (Universalism) was a popular doctrine in the early church of the east?

If you have chosen either Damnationism or Annihilationism over Universalism,
then either of those doctrines is biblically contradictory as well.

I have chosen UR, but my aim is to inform others that there are three views.

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[Charlie24]

Thanks.
Can you accept that there are three biblical views of the final judgment?
And that UR (Universalism) was a popular doctrine in the early church of the east?

If you have chosen either Damnationism or Annihilationism over Universalism,
then either of those doctrines is biblically contradictory as well.

I have chosen UR, but my aim is to inform others that there are three views.

[

I know the RCC condemned UR as heresy from the very beginning.

I'll remind you of the question I asked you in the past.

The Scripture clearly places all the unsaved in the Lake of Fire, can you show me in Scripture where they get out?

If you can I will join you in the UR and we will preach it from the housetops.

 

[St. SteVen]

I know the RCC condemned UR as heresy from the very beginning.

But the RCC was not from the beginning?
UR was before the RCC.
And the heresy was Origen, not UR.

I'll remind you of the question I asked you in the past.

The Scripture clearly places all the unsaved in the Lake of Fire, can you show me in Scripture where they get out?

I told you that there was biblical support for all three views.
Are those in the LOF annihilated, or tormented forever?

If you can I will join you in the UR and we will preach it from the housetops.

I look forward to that. - LOL

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[Jack]

But the RCC was not from the beginning?
UR was before the RCC.
And the heresy was Origen, not UR.

I told you that there was biblical support for all three views.
Are those in the LOF annihilated, or tormented forever?

I look forward to that. - LOL

You'll answer on Judgment Day!

Matthew 25:41
41 Then He will also say to those on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:

Is there any part of the Bible you believe is the written Word of God?
Which god do you believe in? No clue?

 

[Charlie24]

But the RCC was not from the beginning?
UR was before the RCC.
And the heresy was Origen, not UR.


I told you that there was biblical support for all three views.
Are those in the LOF annihilated, or tormented forever?


I look forward to that. - LOL

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LOL, why, Brother, do you insist on teaching a doctrine you cannot prove?

It's like a kid that stole a cookie from the jar before dinner and denies doing it!

I can't understand why UR is all that is on your mind, but it's the same with all of them who believe this false doctrine.

 

[St. SteVen]

LOL, why, Brother, do you insist on teaching a doctrine you cannot prove?

It's like a kid that stole a cookie from the jar before dinner and denies doing it!

I can prove it, but not to your liking.
As I said, there is biblical proof for all three views.
The biggest issue for me is what each of the three views say about the character of God.

I can't understand why UR is all that is on your mind, but it's the same with all of them who believe this false doctrine.

There's plenty else on my mind.
This topic is not about UR.

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[Jack]

I can prove it, but not to your liking.

You won't even tell us who your god is.

 

[Charlie24]

I can prove it, but not to your liking.
As I said, there is biblical proof for all three views.
The biggest issue for me is what each of the three views say about the character of God.


There's plenty else on my mind.
This topic is not about UR.

[

Oh, I'm willing to receive, the problem is that Steven can't deliver!

All you have are hopes and dreams, no Biblical truth whatsoever.

Send your assumed proof my way and I'll shoot them down on after another.

And you know I can do it!

 

[St. SteVen]

Send your assumed proof my way and I'll shoot them down on after another.

And you know I can do it!

Here's one you could tackle.

The actions of the two Adams resulted in both condemnation and justification for ALL people.
Note: "the many" = all. (were made sinners and will be made righteous)

Romans 5:18-19 NIV
Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people,
so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people.
19 For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners,
so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.

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[St. SteVen]

The point is that you have found that dwell spot to live in despite the bumps that come at us continually.
The truth is in the dwell, not in the bumps.

I should say that I agree with the observations of the atheist in the OP but not his conclusions.
The question is how should we respond to his observations? Discounting him is not an answer.

It seems that the real issue has to do with the Bible, or how it is received by believers.
Notably the confusion caused rather than a universal clarity.

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[Charlie24]

Here's one you could tackle.

The actions of the two Adams resulted in both condemnation and justification for ALL people.
Note: "the many" = all. (were made sinners and will be made righteous)

Romans 5:18-19 NIV
Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people,
so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people.
19 For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners,
so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.

[

Yes, by Adam all men are fallen and lost, and by One (Jesus Christ) the free Gift has been made available to all.

All the UR can do is twist the Scripture to mean what they want it to mean.

Steven I wonder if you know how Christ turned around what Adam did to mankind that gave man hope again to be reconciled to God?

 

[St. SteVen]

Yes, by Adam all men are fallen and lost, and by One (Jesus Christ) the free Gift has been made available to all.

All the UR can do is twist the Scripture to mean what they want it to mean.

That's not what this scriptures says. Nothing about "made available". The acts of the two had results for all.
There is nothing twisted around in the scripture I presented to you. It says very clearly what it says.

Romans 5:18-19 NIV
Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people,
so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people.
19 For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners,
so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.

Steven I wonder if you know how Christ turned around what Adam did to mankind that gave man hope again to be reconciled to God?

Christ paid the death penalty on our behalf. Paid in full. A complete atonement for sin.

1 John 2:2 NIV
He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.

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[Charlie24]

That's not what this scriptures says. Nothing about "made available". The acts of the two had results for all.
There is nothing twisted around in the scripture I presented to you. It says very clearly what it says.

Romans 5:18-19 NIV
Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people,
so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people.
19 For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners,
so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.

Christ paid the death penalty on our behalf. Paid in full. A complete atonement for sin.

1 John 2:2 NIV
He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.

[

You cannot be born-again without confessing Christ and believing in the heart that He rose from the dead, as Paul plainly said.

Multitudes have gone to Hell denying Christ in some form, now simply show me how they get out of the Lake of Fire in the end.

And stop twisting the Scripture with your perversion.

 

[Charlie24]

You cannot be born-again without confessing Christ and believing in the heart that He rose from the dead, as Paul plainly said.

Multitudes have gone to Hell denying Christ in some form, now simply show me how they get out of the Lake of Fire in the end.

And stop twisting the Scripture with your perversion.

I've never met a Universalist that understood Christ came to undo what Adam did by placing us under sin. Christ came to condemn sin in the flesh that the righteousness of the Law might be fulfilled in us.

The Universalists can't understand there's a condition to salvation to be met.

Rom. 10:9-10

"That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation."

The majority of the world refuses to do this and there's a price to pay for this rejection.

 

[Jack]

Satan LOVES Universalism! He loves it when his messengers lead people to Hell! I think there will be a special place in Hell for Satan's messengers!

 

[Charlie24]

Satan LOVES Universalism! He loves it when his messengers lead people to Hell! I think there will be a special place in Hell for Satan's messengers!

It's for sure that Universalism teaches disobedient man will not spend eternity in the Lake of Fire.

That is not only heresy, that is teaching man he doesn't need to worry about repenting for his sins.

 

[Bob]

It's for sure that Universalism teaches disobedient man will not spend eternity in the Lake of Fire.

That is not only heresy, that is teaching man he doesn't need to worry about repenting for his sins.

Thank you for your post and all of the relevant discussions.

Here is something to consider: across the globe there are millions communities of people who are not Evangelical Christians, but whose cultures are equivalent (with few exceptions) to a culture of Love Thy Neighbor. They are people who believe in and practice sharing & caring, being gentile & peaceful, humility, life-long faithful monogamous marriages, . . . .

Do you believe that when they come before God, they will be cast in a Lake of Fire for Eternity? In other words, if their devotion to and practice of Good Works cannot save them immediately, is eternal damnation still their lot?

Blessings.

 

[Charlie24]

Thank you for your post and all of the relevant discussions.

Here is something to consider: across the globe there are millions communities of people who are not Evangelical Christians, but whose cultures are equivalent (with few exceptions) to a culture of Love Thy Neighbor. They are people who believe in and practice sharing & caring, being gentile & peaceful, humility, life-long faithful monogamous marriages, . . . .

Do you believe that when they come before God, they will be cast in a Lake of Fire for Eternity? In other words, if their devotion to and practice of Good Works cannot save them immediately, is eternal damnation still their lot?

Blessings.

Did these people, regardless of how good they may be, obey the commandment of God?

Acts 4:12

"Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved."