Theological Examination of the Rapture in Relation to the Great Tribulation

[No Pre-TB]

There is a resurrection of the Just, and a resurrection of the Unjust.

The First resurrection is all of the Just. The dead that "lived not again until the 1000 years are expired" is the resurrection of the Unjust.

These resurrection are separated by 1000 years.

Do you agree with this?

Yes sir.

 

[LoveYeshua]

All that fits pretrib rapture.
100% perfect fit.

Jesus Himself said in Matthew 24:29–31 (NKJV):

“Immediately after the tribulation of those days… they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds.”

This shows the order clearly that AFTER the tribulation, Jesus returns in his Glory and THEN, the elect are gathered, this is the rapture or resurrection of the just.

 

[Taken]

provide the scrioture so we can examine

Sure.
WHY, (according to Scripture) would/ does God WANT men “IN Christ”… whom also Have “Christ IN Them”…WANT Christ (in them)
To Suffer…
Tribulations or Wrath From Heaven?

Glory To God,
Taken

@LoveYeshua-
Theological Examination of the Rapture in Relation to the Great Tribulation
“The doctrine commonly referred to as the “pre-tribulation rapture” posits that Christ will secretly gather His faithful from the earth prior to a period of intense suffering and divine judgment, commonly labeled the tribulation. However…”

I do not find a Scripture whereby THEY BAPTIZED by the Baptizer of the Holy Spirit; (the Lamb of God);
ARE ON Earth during ANY of the DAYS, regarding “The (last Days) Great Tribulation sent down upon the Earth and its inhabitants.

If you Believe… (THEY…Baptized by the Lamb of God…ARE ON the Earth… during ANY of the last Days Great Trib…)
Where are THEY mentioned?
What are THEY doing?
What is THEIR purpose?

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[rebuilder 454]

Jesus Himself said in Matthew 24:29–31 (NKJV):

“Immediately after the tribulation of those days… they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds.”

This shows the order clearly that AFTER the tribulation, Jesus returns in his Glory and THEN, the elect are gathered, this is the rapture or resurrection of the just.

You keep reiterating that AFTER the trib there is a gathering BY ANGELS IN HEAVEN.
YES YES YES WE AGREE.
Those saints in heaven are gathered to go back to earth.
They are IN HEAVEN.
They got there via the pretrib rapture.
Your emphasis on the postrib post 7 year trib RETURN TO EARTH demonstrates the FACT that there are 2 "comings" in mat 24.

Why do you keep misplacing what is written?
Why do you focus on a word "after", then a few sentences later, in the same chapter, pretend "before" is not there????????

2 separate events that postribbers pretend are not there.

 

[GodsGrace]

This revised version (Oct, 26, 2025) clarifies that the term “rapture” does not refer to a secret removal of believers before tribulation, but to God’s protection of His faithful people during it and their gathering to Christ at His visible return.

Theological Examination of the “Rapture” in Relation to the Great Tribulation

The teaching often called the “pre-tribulation rapture” says that Christ will take away His faithful people before a time of great suffering and judgment, often called the tribulation. But when we look closely at what Jesus Himself taught and what His original disciples witnessed, this idea is not found in the Bible. Scripture instead shows a clear order where tribulation comes first, and then the visible return of the Son of Man, when He gathers His chosen ones.

Christ’s Own Words About the Sequence of Events

In the Olivet Discourse, Jesus explained the signs of the end and how the final gathering will happen. He said plainly that tribulation happens first, and then His coming will be seen by everyone.

“Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other” (Matthew 24:29–31).

The phrase “immediately after the tribulation” makes the timing clear. The gathering of the elect comes after, not before, the tribulation. And because all will “see the Son of Man coming on the clouds,” this event cannot be secret. It will be public, seen, and heard by the whole world.

Jesus also reminded His followers that tribulation is part of the world we live in, and that endurance and faith are needed until the end. He said, “These things I have spoken to you, that in Me you may have peace. In the world you will have tribulation; but be of good cheer, I have overcome the world” (John 16:33). And again He said, “Watch therefore, for you do not know what hour your Lord is coming... Therefore you also be ready” (Matthew 24:42–44).

From these verses we understand that true disciples are called to remain faithful through trouble, not to expect to be removed from it.

The Testimony in Revelation

The vision given to John in Revelation also confirms this. When he sees the faithful in heaven, he is told, “These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb” (Revelation 7:14).

The words “come out of” show that they passed through tribulation and were kept by God’s grace in it. Their purity came through faith and perseverance, not by being spared from suffering. This fits perfectly with what Jesus said about endurance and faith.

Later in Revelation, we also see that God marks His faithful people with His seal to protect them during the time of judgment (Revelation 7:3–4). This shows that even during the hardest trials, God protects those who belong to Him. The faithful are not taken away before tribulation, but they are guarded and sustained through it.

The Meaning and Purpose of Tribulation

When we think about tribulation in light of Jesus’ teaching, we see that it has a purpose. It separates those who truly believe from those who only follow for comfort. It also purifies the faithful, making their faith stronger and their hope clearer.

Jesus said, “Because lawlessness will abound, the love of many will grow cold. But he who endures to the end shall be saved” (Matthew 24:12–13). The trials that come test the heart, but those who hold firm will see His salvation.

In this way, tribulation is not meant to destroy believers but to prepare them for His coming. It is the time when faith is proven genuine. The promise is not escape from trouble, but God’s presence and strength within it.

The Visible Return and Gathering

When Christ returns, it will not be silent or hidden. Jesus said that His coming will be like lightning flashing across the sky (Matthew 24:27). Everyone will see it, and the sound of the trumpet will announce it. This gathering of the elect is the moment when the faithful from all nations, both Jews and Gentiles, are brought to Him.

He said, “Then two men will be in the field: one will be taken and the other left” (Matthew 24:40). This is not describing a secret rapture, but rather the separation between those who belong to Christ and those who rejected Him when He appears. It is part of His visible judgment, not an invisible removal.

The Faithful Kept by God

In His prayer to the Father, Jesus said of His followers, “I do not pray that You should take them out of the world, but that You should keep them from the evil one” (John 17:15). This perfectly describes how God protects His people: not by removing them, but by preserving them through the storms of the world.

When the end comes, He will protect His true people, whether Jew or Gentile, and gather them into His kingdom after His glorious return. His promise is certain: “He who endures to the end shall be saved” (Matthew 24:13).

The Bible speaks of the gathering of the faithful, it is not talking about a secret or early removal from the world. It is about the visible and powerful return of Jesus Christ after the tribulation, when He comes in glory, sends His angels, and gathers His people to Himself. The faithful will be protected, not removed. The tribulation is not their end, but their proving ground. Through it, their faith shines, and when He comes, they will rejoice to see Him face to face.

Great OP!
Agreed on all.

 

[JLB]

The book of Revelation helps us understand how God will care for His faithful during that period. It says that the woman, which represents God’s faithful people, will flee into the wilderness to a place prepared by God, where she will be fed and protected for a time, away from the serpent’s reach (Revelation 12:6,14). This is not a rapture to heaven but a sign of divine protection on earth

Amen, just as it was in the days of Noah.

Noah was protected during the flood, not raptured to heaven.

 

[JLB]

Every day People IN the world suffer Tribulations…. Of Men.

‘The great tribulation is persecution against Christians.

IOW’S they are persecuted BECAUSE they are Christians.


Here is some context…


Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and kill you, and you will be hated by all nations for My name’s sake. Matthew 24:9


For my name sake; Christian

 

[JLB]

Matt 24 has 2 second comings.

Please post the two second comings of the Lord from Matthew 24.


so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation. Hebrews 9:28

 

[Taken]

Amen, just as it was in the days of Noah.

Noah was protected during the flood, not raptured to heaven.

Heaven BEGINS IN THE CLOUDS….(by default called the 1st / lower heavens)

There is Outer heavens (ie. 2nd heavens, people can see in the Night where the Stars Are.)

There is the High (3rd heavens, Where Saved living Departed souls go.)

Then there is the Heaven ABOVE the heavens; Gods Estate, where no (human) man can go. (The Place from where Gods Word came forth out of Gods mouth, entered a BODY God Prepared and was sent to Earth to A Faithful Jewish females Virgin womb.)

Mountain tops Are in THE Clouds.
Earth is Dry Land.
Faithful Noah, and his Faithful family, “PREPARED” according to Gods instruction…building an ARK.

They entered the ARK. God shut the door.
None could exit or thereafter Enter.
For SEVEN days they sat in the Ark BEFORE the First drop of rain fell to Earth.

As the days of rain increased, SO ALSO did water from underground Oceans gush upon the Earth.
In less a year… the Earth was covered and Noah and his family was Raised UP OFF the Earth Approx. 25-30 feet Above the mountain Tops… in the Clouds, “lower heavens.”

So also shall the “Lamb of God Baptized” Raptured be raised up off the Earth to the Clouds…Lower Heaven(S)….During the Next “Great Tribulations” sent down from Heaven…as in the days of Faithful Noah.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[JLB]

So also shall the “Lamb of God Baptized” Raptured be raised up off the Earth to the Clouds…Lower Heaven(S)….During the Next “Great Tribulations” sent down from Heaven…as in the days of Faithful Noah.

‘The rapture is at the coming of the Lord.


For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 1 Thessalonians 4:15


The coming of the Lord is after the tribulation.

 

[Taken]

‘The rapture is at the coming of the Lord.


For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 1 Thessalonians 4:15


The coming of the Lord is after the tribulation.

The “coming” of the Lord…
Begins WHEN the Lord Descends From where He WAS and WHERE He “returned”(out from His Father back in His Father)…

That place is the Heaven ABOVE the Heavens (where His Father IS)…

Jesus’ “coming”… by default IS Him Leaving, the “Heaven Above the Heavens…”
To The 3rd Heaven
To The 2nd Heaven
To The 1st (lowest) Heaven where the Clouds Are…
And while THERE, summons HIS Saints UP to Him…
And remains There for 7 years, While…
The Lamb of God unleashes His Wrath upon the Earth…
And
God fulfills His promise to Save the Godly Faithful Tribes of ISRAEL.
And
The Devil unleashes his Wrath upon the Earth
And
God unleashes his Wrath upon the Earth…

Then does Jesus Appear on a White cloud For all on and in and above the Earth to See Him.

Thereafter does He literally “Return to the Earth”…Dry Land…with His Saved (saints) AND His Angels.

Com-ing and Return-Ed are two separated things.



Glory to God,
Taken

 

[JLB]

The “coming” of the Lord…
Begins WHEN the Lord Descends From where He WAS and WHERE He “returned”(out from His Father back in His Father)…

That place is the Heaven ABOVE the Heavens (where His Father IS)…

Jesus’ “coming”… by default IS Him Leaving, the “Heaven Above the Heavens…”
To The 3rd Heaven
To The 2nd Heaven
To The 1st (lowest) Heaven where the Clouds Are…
And while THERE, summons HIS Saints UP to Him…
And remains There for 7 years, While…
The Lamb of God unleashes His Wrath upon the Earth…
And
God fulfills His promise to Save the Godly Faithful Tribes of ISRAEL.
And
The Devil unleashes his Wrath upon the Earth
And
God unleashes his Wrath upon the Earth…

Then does Jesus Appear on a White cloud For all on and in and above the Earth to See Him.

Thereafter does He literally “Return to the Earth”…Dry Land…with His Saved (saints) AND His Angels.

Com-ing and Return-Ed are two separated things.



Glory to God,
Taken

“Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. Matthew 24:29-31

 

[LoveYeshua]

Great OP!
Agreed on all.

thank you sister.

 

[Davy]

No.


Clearly…
Not the Same Thing.
Tribulations ARE Actions.
Wrath is the strong indignation, anger, feelings that is the Reason For the Tribulations.

You have been LIED to by the pretrib doctors about the 'wrath' mentioned in 1 Thess.5:9. That wrath is not about Satan's wrath during the great tribulation.

That 1 Thess.5:9 wrath is about God's wrath upon the WICKED on the last day when Jesus returns. If you had paid attention to Apostle Paul in the previous 1 Thess.5:1-4 verses, then you should... have understood the wrath he was pointing to is about God's wrath upon those who will be saying that, "Peace and safety". But nah... you instead put your misguided trust in those men who lie to you and push a false pretrib rapture.

 

[Davy]

Precious friend, appreciate the kind request - do you mean this prophecy statement?:

"But those things, which God before had shewed by the mouth of all his prophets, that Christ should suffer,​

he hath so fulfilled. Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times​

of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord; And He Shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you: Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God Hath Spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began." (Acts 3:18-21 AV)​

​

Prophecy = God's [ earthly ] Program for His Chosen Nation of Israel
Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2:15 AV) From “Things That Differ!” (online):
The Mystery for God's [ Heavenly ] Chosen Body Of Christ

containing God’s PRE - TOJT Great GRACE Departure! =​

God’s “Heavenly Hidden” Purpose Before “the foundation of the world”

(Ephesians 1:4; 2 Timothy 1:9 AV)​

Thus, When Christ Gathers us, The Body Of Christ, To "meet Him 'In The Air' ( Completing The Mystery)
To Take us to Heaven", He Leaves The Third Heaven, but, technically speaking, He Never "Leaves the
first Heaven", to "Come All The Way to the earth (fulfilling Prophecy)", When He Does So, eh?

Much More is in All The ( ~100 ) Plain And Clear Passages Shown In
God’s PRE - TOJT Great GRACE Departure Rightly Divided study link, If you wish...

Hope this helps. And, Be Blessed...

What Lord Jesus Himself said can NEVER be changed by any man merely using the "rightly divide" quote from Apostle Paul on how to study God's Word.

No amount of religious EMOTIONAL SENSATIONALISM can replace what Christ Himself showed for when His future coming to gather His saints will be. I actually find such RELIGIOUS EMOTIONAL SENSATIONALISM as LAUGHABLE, since it so easily LEAVES what GOD's WORD actually states...

Matt 24:29-31
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And He shall send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
KJV


Those brethren who fall into the trap of MAN'S RELIGIOUS EMOTIONAL SENSATIONALISM most likely are the same type of people who easily fall for many scams of this world. God's people are to UNDERSTAND HIS WORD WITH COMMON SENSE, not WITH RELIGIOUS EMOTIONALISM.

 

[Taken]

“Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. Matthew 24:29-31

Yes. The “Tribulations of THOSE Days”…
Is The Seals Judgements…
Is The Wrath of the Lamb… upon they who “Rejected” the Baptism of the Lamb of God.

Yes. The Prepared (IN Christ), are already Delivered out of Harms Way, (risen Above the Earth,) while Judgements come down from Heaven Upon the Earth.

Yes. A compassion, somberness, of they WITH the Lord (in the clouds), WITH God (in the higher Heavens…)
Pay tribute / respect (In quiet / silence) to those suffering judgements ON Earth…

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Taken]

You have been LIED to by the pretrib doctors

That is a pretty Bold Claim, that I myself have NEVER claimed To have been “TAUGHT” …by ANY men, outside of, not identified in Scripture.

about the 'wrath' mentioned in 1 Thess.5:9. That wrath is not about Satan's wrath during the great tribulation.

1 Thes 5:
[9] For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

That 1 Thes, 5:9 wrath is about God's wrath upon the WICKED on the last day when Jesus returns.

You responded to me…
Whereby… that post of mine has NO mention of 1 Thes. 5:9.
And no mention of mine, saying WHO is Causing THAT wrath.

Try again, and actually quote me, and respond to something I SAID… not what you say for me.

 

[LoveYeshua]

The “coming” of the Lord…
Begins WHEN the Lord Descends From where He WAS and WHERE He “returned”(out from His Father back in His Father)…

That place is the Heaven ABOVE the Heavens (where His Father IS)…

Jesus’ “coming”… by default IS Him Leaving, the “Heaven Above the Heavens…”
To The 3rd Heaven
To The 2nd Heaven
To The 1st (lowest) Heaven where the Clouds Are…
And while THERE, summons HIS Saints UP to Him…
And remains There for 7 years, While…
The Lamb of God unleashes His Wrath upon the Earth…
And
God fulfills His promise to Save the Godly Faithful Tribes of ISRAEL.
And
The Devil unleashes his Wrath upon the Earth
And
God unleashes his Wrath upon the Earth…

Then does Jesus Appear on a White cloud For all on and in and above the Earth to See Him.

Thereafter does He literally “Return to the Earth”…Dry Land…with His Saved (saints) AND His Angels.

Com-ing and Return-Ed are two separated things.



Glory to God,
Taken

do you have scripture for each line of what you say?;

-To The 3rd Heaven
-To The 2nd Heaven
-To The 1st (lowest) Heaven where the Clouds Are…
-And while THERE, summons HIS Saints UP to Him…
-And remains There for 7 years, While…

where is this from?

 

[LoveYeshua]

You keep reiterating that AFTER the trib there is a gathering BY ANGELS IN HEAVEN.
YES YES YES WE AGREE.
Those saints in heaven are gathered to go back to earth.
They are IN HEAVEN.
They got there via the pretrib rapture.
Your emphasis on the postrib post 7 year trib RETURN TO EARTH demonstrates the FACT that there are 2 "comings" in mat 24.

Why do you keep misplacing what is written?
Why do you focus on a word "after", then a few sentences later, in the same chapter, pretend "before" is not there????????

2 separate events that postribbers pretend are not there.

Show me these 2 events you describe so I may understand what you mean, to you it may seem evident but I do not see what you see, we are generally in agreement if I remember past threads, please show us and explain.

Blessings

 

[JLB]

Yes. The “Tribulations of THOSE Days”…
Is The Seals Judgements…
Is The Wrath of the Lamb… upon they who “Rejected” the Baptism of the Lamb of God.

Yes. The Prepared (IN Christ), are already Delivered out of Harms Way, (risen Above the Earth,) while Judgements come down from Heaven Upon the Earth.

Yes. A compassion, somberness, of they WITH the Lord (in the clouds), WITH God (in the higher Heavens…)
Pay tribute / respect (In quiet / silence) to those suffering judgements ON Earth…

Glory to God,
Taken

‘The great tribulation is associated with the end of the age and the return of Jesus Christ.


Has Jesus returned?