Refuting Losing Salvation! (A)

[Jay Ross]

Just like we cannot be "unborn" from our parents, neither will we be "unborn" from God. We can't make that happen, and He says it won't.

Some of our children will reject us outright and some will live with our quirks while others will actually love us without any reservation because we loved them first.

We all cannot be unborn from our parents just like we cannot disassociate ourselves from God, our creator. Sadly, many try.

 

[ProverbsInPink]

Amen, and everyone reborn will always choose to please God, because He works this in everyone reborn (Phl 2:13)!

I've come to the conclusion those who know the Spirit of God within could never imagine their will is greater than God's.
And given we have left our worldly history under the blood of Christ, what born again Christian could ever say they can and would want to return to the state of damnation. And God would have agreed to waste his time redeeming them beforehand.

Catholics are taught they can be separated from God's grace and Salvation. But it can be regained if they repent.

Can We Lose Our Salvation?

www.catholicshare.com

It becomes understandable therefore as to how the Protestant Reformation became necessary.

Thinking human acts can overcome God's will and plan is heresy and blasphemous in that it makes God the subject of human will.


Anyone who insists we can lose Salvation when God said we cannot are not following the scriptures.
They're conceding,as was its initial intent, to the church being the emissary between their souls and God.

You're not debating Christians when you encounter those who disbelieve the teaching of Christ and eternal irrevocable Salvation. You're arguing with Catholics.

Whose salvation is also contingent on their remaining in allegiance with the Catholic church.

You will never change their beliefs.

They have to remain fixed on what their church tells them so that after they die and after they burn off all that residual sin on their souls in purgatory, they can go to heaven.

The timeline for that transition varies.

Time passes faster in purgatory if their family pay$ the church for early release. "Indulgences". Because God needs money.

The Roman Catholic Church is not of Christ.

The membership tell you that when they insist Eternal Salvation is a lie.

And they each reiterate this when they insist in any way they have to labor to keep a gift of God.

Most Catholics don't actually read and study the Bible. Their priests teach them to
rely on clergy for understanding.

They're taught by priests to ignore what God says in his own word. The word,it must be pointed out, that is approved by the Vatican.

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and this is not from you; it is the gift of God; 9 it is not from works, so no one may boast.

Romans 11 God's Irrevocable Call
25 I do not want you to be unaware of this mystery, brothers, so that you will not become wise [in] your own estimation: a hardening has come upon Israel in part, until the full number of the Gentiles comes in, 26 and thus all Israel will be saved, as it is written:

“The deliverer will come out of Zion,
he will turn away godlessness from Jacob;
27 and this is my covenant with them
when I take away their sins.”

28 In respect to the gospel, they are enemies on your account; but in respect to election, they are beloved because of the patriarchs. 29 For the gifts and the call of God are irrevocable.

What Does the Bible Say About If We Lose Faith We Do Not Lose Salvation?

Bible verses about If We Lose Faith We Do Not Lose Salvation

www.openbible.info

For Catholics the church is first. If you ask one,are you Christian? They will answer, I'm Catholic.

 

[Netchaplain]

For Catholics the church is first. If you ask one,are you Christian? They will answer, I'm Catholic.

Hello again, and wow, you are very correct concerning Catholicism. I believe if members knew what the clergy within Catholicism believe, those who really want truth would leave the organization; but regardless where you go, truth is the most sought-less by many professing faith in God and the Lord Jesus ("few there be that find it" - Matt 7:13, 14).

To believe God's truths one must "seek" them--within His Word (if we are bereft of truth we are want of seeking it).

My, and probably your discussion concerning this organization is not intended to bash or strike against Catholics, but reveal truths concerning its errors.

It's difficult to see how blindly the belief's of what the clergy follow are accepted. None of the clergy are Christian, and the members are not informed enough about what the clergy believes; and is why members are deceived concerning truth. Again, not to bash but be truthful, this organization is doubtless the largest single entity used by the Enemy to refute the truths of God and the Lord Jesus.

Just to make a personal statement, I believe one of the worst beliefs of the clergy is the belief that Christ literally enters the elements with His Body and Blood during communion (transubstantiation; just saying).

 

[MatthewG]

Everyone has been saved on behalf of Christ Jesus, from their sins, satan, death, and hell.

Jesus paid for the sins of all people once and for all. He took care of all the other things too, such as death, hell, and satan.

However, it seems to be the contention that not everyone is "saved to" the Kingdom of Heaven.

 

[ProverbsInPink]

Hello again, and wow, you are very correct concerning Catholicism. I believe if members knew what the clergy within Catholicism believe, those who really want truth would leave the organization; but regardless where you go, truth is the most sought-less by many professing faith in God and the Lord Jesus ("few there be that find it" - Matt 7:13, 14).

To believe God's truths one must "seek" them--within His Word (if we are bereft of truth we are want of seeking it).

My, and probably your discussion concerning this organization is not intended to bash or strike against Catholics, but reveal truths concerning its errors.

It's difficult to see how blindly the belief's of what the clergy follow are accepted. None of the clergy are Christian, and the members are not informed enough about what the clergy believes; and is why members are deceived concerning truth. Again, not to bash but be truthful, this organization is doubtless the largest single entity used by the Enemy to refute the truths of God and the Lord Jesus.

Just to make a personal statement, I believe one of the worst beliefs of the clergy is the belief that Christ literally enters the elements with His Body and Blood during communion (transubstantiation; just saying).

My cousin is married to a Catholic. His FiL goes a little further. He thinks when the priest gives the homily he is imbued,possessed, by Jesus.

I don't think that's something the RCC teaches

 

[Netchaplain]

My cousin is married to a Catholic. His FiL goes a little further. He thinks when the priest gives the homily he is imbued,possessed, by Jesus.

I don't think that's something the RCC teaches

'Catholic priests do not believe they are possessed by Jesus when giving a homily." - bismarckdiocese.com

 

[Netchaplain]

My cousin is married to a Catholic. His FiL goes a little further. He thinks when the priest gives the homily he is imbued,possessed, by Jesus.

I don't think that's something the RCC teaches

"Catholic priests do not believe they are possessed by Jesus when giving a homily." - bismarckdiocese.com hprweb.com

 

[ProverbsInPink]

"Catholic priests do not believe they are possessed by Jesus when giving a homily." - bismarckdiocese.com hprweb.com

Yes. But don't try to tell the life long Catholic that. Not even his RCC children believe it.

 

[JLB]

“Here it means undoubtedly to “apostatize from” (apostates were never saved—NC) and implies an entire renunciation of Christianity, or a going back to a state of Judaism, paganism, or sin.

‘Yes renouncing Jesus Christ as the Messiah and returning to Judaism.

Fall away or depart from Christ.


How can a person depart from Christ if he was never in Christ?

 

[Netchaplain]

‘Yes renouncing Jesus Christ as the Messiah and returning to Judaism.

Fall away or depart from Christ.


How can a person depart from Christ if he was never in Christ?

They depart from a false profession of faith in the Lord Jesus.

 

[JLB]

They depart from a false profession of faith in the Lord Jesus.

I have never seen that in scripture.

I have seen “depart from the living God”

I have seen “depart from the faith”


Could you show me a scripture where it says depart from a false profession of faith?


What does a false profession of faith mean?

Why would someone make a false profession of faith?

What does someone gain by making a false profession of faith?

 

[ProverbsInPink]

I have never seen that in scripture.

I have seen “depart from the living God”

I have seen “depart from the faith”


Could you show me a scripture where it says depart from a false profession of faith?


What does a false profession of faith mean?

Why would someone make a false profession of faith?

What does someone gain by making a false profession of faith?

I think if you read some of the faith opinions here or in other Christian communities on the Net you'll see many such things. False professions of faith.

I think when someone does not know,realize,accept,that Jesus was God on Earth, that right there is failure to have a foundation of truth from which to build faith in Savior Jesus the Christ.

When someone denies what God teaches of and from His Holy Spirit, I believe it is impossible to be in His grace. Because God bestows through His grace faith and understanding of His truth.

 

[JLB]

I think if you read some of the faith opinions here or in other Christian communities on the Net you'll see many such things. False professions of faith.

I think when someone does not know,realize,accept,that Jesus was God on Earth, that right there is failure to have a foundation of truth from which to build faith in Savior Jesus the Christ.

When someone denies what God teaches of and from His Holy Spirit, I believe it is impossible to be in His grace. Because God bestows through His grace faith and understanding of His truth.

‘False profession of faith is a man made term to substantiate a man made doctrine.


It’s very reckless to change the words of Jesus Christ, to bend His doctrine to fit a man made made theology.

 

[ProverbsInPink]

‘False profession of faith is a man made term to substantiate a man made doctrine.


It’s very reckless to change the words of Jesus Christ, to bend His doctrine to fit a man made made theology.

You might have noticed there is a lot of reckless abandon on display in these forums and others.

That's what is the giveaway in recognizing who are or are not His.

We can't truly be His when we warp what He tells us of Himself because we prefer to believe our own invention and call that God.

 

[Davy]

I understand this to mean that these are fallen from grace as the means of living out our Christian life. We cannot "walk in the Spirit" by working our way into it, this is by grace through faith only. We cannot "put on Christ" by working our way in. Only by grace through faith, unless you are fallen from grace, trying to gain spiritual fruit purchased by works.

Romans 5:1-2 KJV
1) Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
2) By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

Much love!

You should read Matthew G's post where he says he doesn't even think... about sinning anymore. It's obvious he has his faith in men's false 'Once Saved, Always Saved' doctrine. Some brethren on that false doctrine don't even believe in holding Communion with Christ anymore. It means NO MORE REPENTANCE, since no sin is being recognized. And that brings up another matter of the heart that is very evil...

Who can really be so 'hard-hearted' as to do another person wrongly and not be aware of it, and even act like it never happened, not recognizing it as a sin? What kind... of person is that? This is why the doctrine 'Once Saved, Always Saved' which wrongly teaches brethren they can never have any future sins, and thus have no further need to repent, or even recognize future sin, is a doctrine originating from the devil. The devil wants us to DENY Jesus' Authority over us as His servants, as Christians.


So did Apostle Paul teach repentance for wrongdoing even after one's Faith on Jesus Christ? Yes, he did. Apostle John made it clear for those in Christ per 1 John 1 that we still need to watch out for our future sins and repent ask Christ forgiveness, which is one of the reasons for holding communion with Jesus Christ.

2 Cor 7:8-9
8 For though I made you sorry with a letter, I do not repent, though I did repent: for I perceive that the same epistle hath made you sorry, though it were but for a season.
9 Now I rejoice, not that ye were made sorry, but that ye sorrowed to repentance: for ye were made sorry after a godly manner, that ye might receive damage by us in nothing.
KJV

Repentance is about RECOGNIZING one's sin, and feeling sorry for having done it, and seeking to get back to serving Christ.



Lord Jesus' Own Words to the seven Churches in Asia...

Rev 2:5
5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.
KJV

Rev 3:3
3 Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.
KJV

Rev 3:19
19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.
KJV

 

[ProverbsInPink]

You should read Matthew G's post where he says he doesn't even think... about sinning anymore. It's obvious he has his faith in men's false 'Once Saved, Always Saved' doctrine. Some brethren on that false doctrine don't even believe in holding Communion with Christ anymore. It means NO MORE REPENTANCE, since no sin is being recognized. And that brings up another matter of the heart that is very evil...

Who can really be so 'hard-hearted' as to do another person wrongly and not be aware of it, and even act like it never happened, not recognizing it as a sin? What kind... of person is that? This is why the doctrine 'Once Saved, Always Saved' which wrongly teaches brethren they can never have any future sins, and thus have no further need to repent, or even recognize future sin, is a doctrine originating from the devil. The devil wants us to DENY Jesus' Authority over us as His servants, as Christians.


So did Apostle Paul teach repentance for wrongdoing even after one's Faith on Jesus Christ? Yes, he did. Apostle John made it clear for those in Christ per 1 John 1 that we still need to watch out for our future sins and repent ask Christ forgiveness, which is one of the reasons for holding communion with Jesus Christ.

2 Cor 7:8-9
8 For though I made you sorry with a letter, I do not repent, though I did repent: for I perceive that the same epistle hath made you sorry, though it were but for a season.
9 Now I rejoice, not that ye were made sorry, but that ye sorrowed to repentance: for ye were made sorry after a godly manner, that ye might receive damage by us in nothing.
KJV

Repentance is about RECOGNIZING one's sin, and feeling sorry for having done it, and seeking to get back to serving Christ.



Lord Jesus' Own Words to the seven Churches in Asia...

Rev 2:5
5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.
KJV

Rev 3:3
3 Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.
KJV

Rev 3:19
19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.
KJV

So,the teaching of Eternal Life, Eternal Salvation,is man's invention?

 

[Davy]

So,the teaching of Eternal Life, Eternal Salvation,is man's invention?

IF... there were absolutely NO... New Testament rebuke and warning against FALLING AWAY FROM CHRIST, then man's false Once Saved, Always Saved doctrine would be true.

So what you are claiming then, if... you support that OSAS doctrine of men, is that The New Testament shows NO REBUKE OR WARNING TO BELIEVERS ON CHRIST AGAINST FALLING AWAY?

 

[ProverbsInPink]

IF... there were absolutely NO... New Testament rebuke and warning against FALLING AWAY FROM CHRIST, then man's false Once Saved, Always Saved doctrine would be true.

So what you are claiming then, if... you support that OSAS doctrine of men, is that The New Testament shows NO REBUKE OR WARNING TO BELIEVERS ON CHRIST AGAINST FALLING AWAY?

I stand with the OSAS teachings of Christ.
When Jesus says,of all people the Father gives Him He shall lose none,I believe him.
When Jesus says no one will take us out of His hand,I believe Him.

When Jesus tells me His free irrevocable gift of Salvation,Eternal Life,because Salvation is being Saved from the second death, is a gift from and through His grace I believe Him.

You and those who condemn the ministry of Jesus as of man are lost. The ego of the flesh that insists it can choose to save itself through believing in Jesus,or to lose its salvation by choice, is false. And it calls Jesus actual ministry false too.

 

[Davy]

I stand with the OSAS teachings of Christ.

But Christ Jesus did not teach OSAS. He warned STRONGLY that we are to WATCH against being deceived, particularly at the end of this world.

When Jesus says,of all people the Father gives Him He shall lose none,I believe him.

I believe Him too about that, but not about the believer who 'falls away' to bow to another that does not remain "a chaste virgin" waiting on Jesus, like Apostle Paul warned in the 2 Corinthians 11 chapter. Didn't you catch Paul's warning there of how Satan disguises himself as an angel of light, and his angels as the ministers of light? He is coming in an attempt to portray himself as The Christ (2 Thess.2:3-4 warning by Paul).

It will be ONLY Christ's FAITHFUL elect who remain waiting for His coming that will reign with Him as the "first resurrection" when He comes. And that's who I believe that are the none that will be lost unto Him. It won't be the five foolish virgins, nor the unprofitable servant. So if you don't know these things, then it sounds like you don't actually have a complete Bible, or, you haven't read enough of The Bible that you may have.

 

[ProverbsInPink]

IF... there were absolutely NO... New Testament rebuke and warning against FALLING AWAY FROM CHRIST, then man's false Once Saved, Always Saved doctrine would be true.

So what you are claiming then, if... you support that OSAS doctrine of men, is that The New Testament shows NO REBUKE OR WARNING TO BELIEVERS ON CHRIST AGAINST FALLING AWAY?

I can't convince someone if the Gospel of Jesus. That's the job of the Father to lead to righteous understanding.

The moment someone insists Salvation isn't eternal,they show they don't know that.
When they insist they have to work to keep themselves secure,they're insisting they are still in the flesh. Because they are insisting their consciousness of acquisition, is still in charge.

The,I have Salvation and I'm going to keep it. And if I so choose I can let it go.

But that idea can never, because it doesn't exist,show the scriptures that detail how God reverses everything that occurred when Jesus Saved them and redeemed them, so to take them right back to their dead in sin state unable to understand the things of God..

The ideology that insists Salvation isn't eternal life are those identified in scripture as the many who are called.

They are not numbered among those who are chosen.

They contradict themselves the moment they try to insist ,Eternal Irrevocable Salvation, doesn't really say that.