"Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned."

[NotTheRock]

Was Jesus referring to water baptism or spiritual baptism? I'm thinking it's the latter. What do you believe?

Mark 16:14-18
14 Afterward he appeared to the eleven themselves as they were reclining at table, and he rebuked them for their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they had not believed those who saw him after he had risen. 15 And he said to them, “Go into all the world and proclaim the gospel to the whole creation. 16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned. 17 And these signs will accompany those who believe: in my name they will cast out demons; they will speak in new tongues; 18 they will pick up serpents with their hands; and if they drink any deadly poison, it will not hurt them; they will lay their hands on the sick, and they will recover.”

 

[TrevorHL]

Greetings NotThe Rock,

Was Jesus referring to water baptism or spiritual baptism? I'm thinking it's the latter. What do you believe?

Water baptism. A uniting in true faith with the death and resurrection of Jesus which necessitates a life motivated from then on by the love of Christ.

Galatians 2:20 (KJV): I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[NotTheRock]

Thanks @TrevorHL

The reason I think Jesus may have been referring to a spiritual baptism is because only spiritual baptism through the Holy Spirit saves (must be born again), not water baptism, right?

Edit: I was not clear.

I believe Jesus was referring to water baptism when he instructed the apostles. The baptized will be saved IF they are sincere in order that they can receive the baptism of the Holy Spirit and be born again. One can be baptized of water but if they're unfaithfulness precludes them from being baptized by the Holy Spirit then they are NOT saved. At least that is my understanding.

 

[TrevorHL]

Greetings again NotThe Rock,

The reason I think Jesus may have been referring to a spiritual baptism is because only spiritual baptism through the Holy Spirit saves (must be born again), not water baptism, right?

I appreciate your comments and your position, but I do not believe in "spiritual baptism through the Holy Spirit". I consider the baptism of the Holy Spirit was the impartation of the Spirit Gifts to the first century believers and I consider that these are not available today. True faith and water baptism motivated by this faith and a crucified/resurrected life is the means of salvation. I do not accept that there is a so-called "spiritual baptism" as distinct from true water baptism as promulgated by many churches. Many churches may reduce water baptism to a ritual and others ignore it altogether.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[GRACE ambassador]

Thanks @TrevorHL

The reason I think Jesus may have been referring to a spiritual baptism is because only spiritual baptism through the Holy Spirit saves (must be born again), not water baptism, right?

Edit: I was not clear.

I believe Jesus was referring to water baptism when he instructed the apostles. The baptized will be saved IF they are sincere in order that they can receive the baptism of the Holy Spirit and be born again. One can be baptized of water but if they're unfaithfulness precludes them from being baptized by the Holy Spirit then they are NOT saved. At least that is my understanding.

Precious friend, appreciate you posting your understanding; here is a Rightly Divided view:
Briefly:

Three Bible Baptisms:

In God's Context Of Prophecy/Covenants/Law for Israel, Previously!:

►►► The Twelve Were Sent to {water} baptize! ◄◄◄

The Two Main ( of 12 ) baptisms [ available upon request ]

A) water, For remission of sins/induction into Israeli "priesthood!":
(Matthew 3:5-6; Mark 1:4; Luke 3:3; John 1:31; Luke 7:29-30; Acts 10:37)
(Matthew 28:19; Mark 16:16; Acts 2:38, 22:16; Ezekiel 36:25; Isaiah 52:15 AV)
+
B) WITH The Holy Spirit, Poured Out By CHRIST, for power, signs And wonders!
(Isaiah 44:3; Matthew 3:11; Mark 1:8, 16:17-18;
Luke 24:49; Acts 2:17-18, 38, 8:15-17, 11:16 AV)

Prophecy / Covenants / Law for twelve tribes of Israel!

Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2:15 AV) From “Things That Differ!” (online):

In God's Other Distinctive Context Of Mystery / Grace! (Romans - Philemon AV) =

our "One apostle to the Gentiles" for The One Body Of CHRIST, Today!:

►►► Paul Was Not Sent to {water} baptize! Why Not?: ◄◄◄

Today:

Only One Baptism = "BY" The One Spirit = God's Operation,
Spiritually Identifying members In (The One Body Of) Christ!
(Ephesians 4:5; Colossians 2:12; Galatians 3:27;
Romans 6:3-4; 1 Corinthians 12:13 AV)

Conclusion: God's One [ Spiritual ] Baptism Today? = ONE

Or, Equals two? = water problem with God's Math! Correct?
----------------------------------
This has also been Very Helpful:

Water That Divides!!

Please Be Very Richly Encouraged And Edified
In Christ, and In His Precious Word Of Truth!

Amen.

 

[MatthewG]

Condemned:

Detailed Definitions and Usage
• καταδικάζω (katadikazō)
• Derived from kata (down, against) + dikē (justice).
• Meaning: To judge down, i.e., condemn in a specific, personal way.
• Usage: Often used in legal or moral contexts to denote formal condemnation.
• κατακρίνω (katakrinō)
• Derived from kata + krinō (to judge).
• Meaning: To give judgment against; to declare someone worthy of punishment.
• Nuance: Can also imply that one’s good example exposes another’s guilt more clearly.
• κατάκριμα (katakrima)
• Noun form of katakrinō.
• Meaning: The result or sentence of condemnation; a judicial verdict.
• Usage: Found in Romans 8:1 (“no condemnation for those in Christ”).

Related Greek Terms (Broader Judgment Context)
• κρίνω (krinō) – To judge or decide; foundational verb for judicial action.
• κρίσις (krisis) – Judgment or decision; root of the English word “crisis.”
• διακρίνω (diakrinō) – To distinguish or discern; sometimes used in moral judgment.
• ἀνακρίνω (anakrinō) – To examine or interrogate; often used in investigative contexts.

 

[mailmandan]

Mark 16:16 - He who believes and is baptized will be saved (general cases without making a qualification for the unusual case of someone who believes but is not baptized) but he who does not believe will be condemned.

The omission of baptized with "does not believe" shows that Jesus does not make baptism absolutely necessary for salvation. Condemnation rests on unbelief and not on a lack of baptism. *NOWHERE does the Bible say, "baptized or condemned."

If water baptism was absolutely required for salvation, then we would expect Jesus to mention it in the following verses. (3:15,16,18; 5:24; 6:29,40,47; 11:25,26) Yet what is the ONE requirement that Jesus mentions NINE different times in each of these complete statements *BELIEVES. *What happened to baptism? *Hermeneutics.

John 3:18 - He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who (is not water baptized? - NO) does not believe is condemned already, because he has not (been water baptized? - NO) because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

 

[NotTheRock]

Jesus said we must must be born again. I believe that Jesus was referring to a spiritual rebirth or "baptism". Am I mistaken?

 

[David in NJ]

Thanks @TrevorHL

The reason I think Jesus may have been referring to a spiritual baptism is because only spiritual baptism through the Holy Spirit saves (must be born again), not water baptism, right?

Edit: I was not clear.

I believe Jesus was referring to water baptism when he instructed the apostles. The baptized will be saved IF they are sincere in order that they can receive the baptism of the Holy Spirit and be born again. One can be baptized of water but if they're unfaithfulness precludes them from being baptized by the Holy Spirit then they are NOT saved. At least that is my understanding.

Being Born-Again is separate from being Baptized in the Holy Spirit

The OT Saints who believed the Word of God were Born-Again by the Spirit.

This is why JESUS upbraided Nichodemus for his unbelief in the Scriptures

Nicodemus answered and said to Him, “How can these things be?”
Jesus answered and said to him, “Are you the teacher of Israel, and do not know these things?

 

[David in NJ]

Jesus said we must must be born again. I believe that Jesus was referring to a spiritual rebirth or "baptism". Am I mistaken?

Water baptism is unto repentance and accepting the forgiveness of JESUS thru faith in His Sacrifice/Cross and Resurrection.

Holy Spirit Baptism comes after the New Birth = Gospel and Acts

 

[David in NJ]

Mark 16:16 - He who believes and is baptized will be saved (general cases without making a qualification for the unusual case of someone who believes but is not baptized) but he who does not believe will be condemned.

The omission of baptized with "does not believe" shows that Jesus does not make baptism absolutely necessary for salvation. Condemnation rests on unbelief and not on a lack of baptism. *NOWHERE does the Bible say, "baptized or condemned."

If water baptism was absolutely required for salvation, then we would expect Jesus to mention it in the following verses. (3:15,16,18; 5:24; 6:29,40,47; 11:25,26) Yet what is the ONE requirement that Jesus mentions NINE different times in each of these complete statements *BELIEVES. *What happened to baptism? *Hermeneutics.

John 3:18 - He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who (is not water baptized? - NO) does not believe is condemned already, because he has not (been water baptized? - NO) because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

A person can be water baptized in JESUS Name but that does not mean they truly believe and have been converted.

Thus you pointed this out in "he who believes not is condemned"

 

[NotTheRock]

Water baptism is unto repentance and accepting the forgiveness of JESUS thru faith in His Sacrifice/Cross and Resurrection.

Holy Spirit Baptism comes after the New Birth = Gospel and Acts

The Bible says that no one can follow (believe) Jesus unless God permits them to do so. When it happens, I believe it could be described as a spiritual baptism.

 

[David in NJ]

The Bible says that no one can follow (believe) Jesus unless God permits them to do so. When it happens, I believe it could be described as a spiritual baptism.

New Birth = Born from Above

Baptism of the Holy Spirit is separate = JESUS said they are separate = Gospel and Acts

Acts ch1 = "Wait for the Promise of the Father which you heard from ME"

TWO distinct Promises

 

[David in NJ]

The Bible says that no one can follow (believe) Jesus unless God permits them to do so. When it happens, I believe it could be described as a spiritual baptism.

Did you go back and compare you rpost/words with that of Hebrews 9:28

You added something that changes the actual wording.

 

[NotTheRock]

Did you go back and compare you rpost/words with that of Hebrews 9:28

You added something that changes the actual wording.

What do you mean?

 

[David in NJ]

What do you mean?

From the other thread on 70AD where you misquoted Hebrews 9:28

 

[David in NJ]

What do you mean?

Maybe you did not misquote but used a inadequate translation

 

[Jack]

The emphasis was on BELIEVING!

Mk 16 He that believeth not shall be DAMNED.

 

[Lambano]

The emphasis was on BELIEVING!

Mk 16 He that believeth not shall be DAMNED.

My goodness, I agree with Jack on something. These are indeed the days of miracles and wonders.

I once broke it down into a logical truth table. (A skill that is transferrable to computer programming and designing digital circuitry.)

Case 1: Believes and is baptized: SAVED

Case 2: Does not believe and is baptized: DAMNED

Case 3: Does not believe and is not baptized: DAMNED

Case 4: Believes and is not baptized: The two verses say NOTHING about Case 4. I'll go with "SAVED" based on Romans 3:27-28 and Ephesians 2:8.

 

[marks]

Ephesians 4:4-6 LITV
4) There is one body and one Spirit, even as you also were called in one hope of your calling;
5) one Lord, one faith, one baptism,
6) one God and Father of all, the One above all and through all and in you all.

Romans 6:3-4 LITV
3) Or are you ignorant that all who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death?
4) Therefore, we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, so also we should walk in newness of life.

One baptism, being baptized into Christ.

Much love!