How did the Trinity doctrine develop in the early church?

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Jack

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The Royal WE are Echad Elohim, Who are THREE

The THREE are Identified, by Name, in Genesis and again in Exodus

The THREE are again Identified in the Gospel

The THREE are again Identified by the Apostles

The THREE are again Identified in Revelation as: LORD + GOD + ALMIGHTY = LORD GOD ALMIGHTY = Echad ELOHIM
Isaiah 48:16-17
16 "Come near to Me, hear this: I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; From the time that it was, I was there. And now the Lord GOD and His Spirit Have sent Me."17 Thus says the LORD, your Redeemer, The Holy One of Israel: "I am the LORD your God,
 
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David in NJ

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Isaiah 48:16-17
16 "Come near to Me, hear this: I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; From the time that it was, I was there. And now the Lord GOD and His Spirit Have sent Me."17 Thus says the LORD, your Redeemer, The Holy One of Israel: "I am the LORD your God,
#1 - "Come near to ME" "From the Time that was, I was there

#2 - the Lord GOD

#3 - His Spirit

Where One is, THEY all are, for THEY are ONE GOD
 

Grailhunter

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I honestly do not get all the theological mathisms or any other isms that be out there, I just stick with the scripture, and compare as those speak, but what it does make clear is that Jesus Christ was actually hid in God, and that God made all things by Jesus Christ. So there is no doubt to the divinity of Jesus Christ.


Like, you have the Word that was WITH God (but who is also God, right?)
But the Word WAS MADE FLESH, we know as Jesus Christ (made a man)
In whom was fulness of the Godhead bodily.

I see it as the Word (or lets say, The God who was with God) was the one made flesh (The Word made a man, Jesus Christ)
While the God (Who the Word was with) being "the One" Jesus lived by ( because the Father did dwell within him)

John 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me?

Col 1:19 For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell

I actually think its hard to put in your own words, so I do try to stick with scripture only, take my words (and their imperfections with a grain of salt) because I think its really easy to be misunderstood, but at least Paul makes clear, this is a mystery between them and that this was hid in God, and so not something that was clear, and that there are unsearchable riches in Jesus Christ, that are just that, "unsearchable" though it is so interesting to looking into and find those bits.

kool
 

Jack

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Isaiah 48:16-17
16 "Come near to Me, hear this: I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; From the time that it was, I was there. And now the Lord GOD and His Spirit Have sent Me."17 Thus says the LORD, your Redeemer, The Holy One of Israel: "I am the LORD your God,
IOW, God can send Himself in the flesh! And He did.
 
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Hiddenthings

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@Brakelite @Jack @Grailhunter @David in NJ @HealthyShape @Aunty Jane @Truly

In John 1:14 we read that the Word “tabernacled” among us. This echoes Exodus 25:8–9, where God established His dwelling place among His people. Jesus, Immanuel, functioned as a sanctuary (Isa. 8:14; Ex. 33:9; 40:35). Born and raised from among fallen humanity, the child and the man Jesus became the perfect tabernacle or temple in whom the glory, not the divine nature, but the character of the Father dwelt (John 2:19–21; Matt. 12:6).

John knew Jesus by name, yet he used the term Logos. Why? Because the Old Testament use of the Word/Logos points us to the conclusion that Jesus is not God Himself, but the one in whom God’s presence and character were manifested through suffering. God granted him life and immortality, making him the firstborn and the firstfruits, and apart from him, none of us could have the hope of eternal life.

Once this reality is revealed, Scripture becomes unified and consistent, and the tensions created by the doctrine of the Trinity fall away.

For example:

If Jesus were already God in the highest sense, then how could he inherit anything? Scripture says he inherits all things and receives a greater name (Heb. 1:2, 4–5; Acts 2:36; Phil. 2:9; Rev. 5:12). Inheritance belongs to one who is given possession, not one who already possesses it by nature.

If Jesus were God in himself, how could he be raised up and granted immortality or eternal life? Psalm 21:4 says he asked life of God, and John 5:26 states that the Father gave the Son to have life in himself. Receiving life indicates dependence, not self-existence.

If Jesus were already a divine Son, how could God pierce a servant and make him a son (forever)? The law of the bond–servant (Deut. 15:17) pictures one who chooses to serve and is marked forever. Psalm 40:6–8 and Hebrews 10:5–7 apply this to Christ: He is raised up out of Adam (second Adam) as the obedient Servant, fulfills the Father's will, and is exalted as Son and heir. If he were already Son in the ultimate sense, this process would be unnecessary.

How can God pierce a Servant who pre-exists as an eternal Son?

These and many more contradictions are found in the teaching of the Trinity.
 

Aunty Jane

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This is also not true, for example:
Can we examine them then...?
ἀπεκρίθη Θωμᾶς καὶ εἶπεν αὐτῷ Ὁ Κύριός μου καὶ ὁ Θεός μου.
J 20:28
John 20:28....
“Thomas answered him, “My Lord and my God!” (ESV)

This is a classic example of the misuse of the capital letter.
Was Thomas declaring Jesus as his “God” or as his “god” under the definition that this term encompasses.

Did Thomas believe differently to all the other apostles who collectively declared at 1 Cor 8:5-6 that.....

“For although there may be so-called gods in heaven or on earth—as indeed there are many “gods” and many “lords”— yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist.” (ESV)

Their “one God” was “the Father”...their “one Lord” was Jesus Christ....plainly stated.
There is no unequivocal statement to the contrary.

πρὸς δὲ τὸν Υἱόν Ὁ θρόνος σου ὁ Θεὸς εἰς τὸν αἰῶνα τοῦ αἰῶνος, καὶ ἡ ῥάβδος τῆς εὐθύτητος ῥάβδος τῆς βασιλείας αὐτοῦ.
Heb 1:8
You cannot pin a doctrine to one misunderstood verse....read the next one...

“But of the Son he says, “Your throne, O God, is forever and ever, the scepter of uprightness is the scepter of your kingdom. You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness; therefore God, your God, has anointed you with the oil of gladness beyond your companions.” (ESV)

In the folowing verse it is clear that the one addressed has a God who anointed him and that this one was placed above his “companions”.....
The first part of verse 8 can be translated “God is your throne forever” which again agrees with the rest of Scripture.

So again, Scripture explains Scripture as does context.
Ἐγώ εἰμι τὸ Ἄλφα καὶ τὸ Ὦ, λέγει Κύριος ὁ Θεός, ὁ ὢν καὶ ὁ ἦν καὶ ὁ ἐρχόμενος, ὁ Παντοκράτωρ.
Rev 1:8
Again let’s take that verse in context.....
Verses 5-6....8
“and from Jesus Christ the faithful witness, the firstborn of the dead, and the ruler of kings on earth. To him who loves us and has freed us from our sins by his blood and made us a kingdom, priests to his God and Father, to him be glory and dominion forever and ever. Amen.

“I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, “who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.”
(ESV)

Jesus freed his disciples from their sins “by his blood and made them to be a kingdom of priests to his God and Father” and says “to him be the glory and dominion forever”.
Does the Christ have “glory and dominion”? He does, but it is because he has had these given to him by his God and Father. (Matt 28:18; John 17:4-5)

Verse 8 is declaring “the Lord God” (“the Almighty”) as the “Alpha and the Omega”....which means what in Greek? These are the first and last letters of the Greek alphabet and can correctly be applied to both Father and son just as the term “savior” applies to both.

Jesus is identified as the one who has Yahweh as “his God and Father”..... can a son be his own God and Father? Any wonder people get confused and this debate still rages. It makes no logical sense.

Or, if you want it even directly from the Old Testament:
ὁ θρόνος σου, ὁ Θεός, εἰς τὸν αἰῶνα τοῦ αἰῶνος, ράβδος εὐθύτητος ἡ ῥάβδος τῆς βασιλείας σου.
Psalm 44:7 (LXX)
What does that passage reveal in relation to your assertions?

Psalm 44:4-8...
“You are my King, O God; ordain salvation for Jacob! Through you we push down our foes; through your name we tread down those who rise up against us. For not in my bow do I trust, nor can my sword save me. But you have saved us from our foes and have put to shame those who hate us. In God we have boasted continually, and we will give thanks to your name forever.” (ESV)

Who is David addressing? His one and only God was Yahweh. That is the name he would give thanks to, forever. (Psalm 83:18)

Did David have another god? NO! But David did have another “Lord” that he mentioned in Psalm 110 when he said..
“The LORD says to my Lord: “Sit at my right hand, until I make your enemies your footstool.” The LORD sends forth from Zion your mighty scepter. Rule in the midst of your enemies!” (Psalm 110: 1-2 ESV)

There are two ”Lords” mentioned there, but in Hebrew, that one with the capital letters is Yahweh.
Yahweh says to the coming Messiah, “sit at my right hand until I make your enemies your footstool.”
The power and authority of his Messiah comes from Yahweh.....the Almighty. A title not once given to Jesus.

Probably kings or judges.
Yes, because of what “theos” means in Greek.....not just one definition....not necessarily a capital “G”.
It is not. It has already been solved almost 2,000 years ago. Only some modern cults (the 19th century) try to pretend it is something still open. For Christians, the issue is long time settled. Why does your profile say you are a Christian?
Sorry, it still rages, but only the “few” have the correct interpretation....the rest are lost in apostate teachings so deeply entrenched over so many centuries, that for some they are irretrievably implanted and immovable, no matter how much Scripture is presented.

Ask yourself why the “few” are hated and persecuted (John 15:18-21) whilst the many put their trust in a majority view.....according to Jesus, the majority are on the wrong road. (Matt 7:13-14; 21-23) It’s a dead end because the first Commandment is broken.....another “god” has been substituted for “the one true God” of the Bible....Yahweh, the Father of Jesus, of the angels, and of the faithful who cannot tolerate the idea of a substitute.

I identify as a “Christian” because I am not a victim of church theology....I am first and foremost, a Bible student, and the Bible is the only source of my truth......not a hopelessly divided church system who cannot agree on much except but the very doctrines that do not originate from Scripture.
It was foretold....”wheat and weeds”....”sheep and goats” is all Jesus will find in the world when he arrives as judge....which category will he find us in? The misled majority....or the informed and hated minority?

He will let us all know soon enough.
 

Hiddenthings

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I can't find that in any English translation.
So John is deliberately echoing the Old Testament Tabernacle (σκηνή — skēnē), where God’s presence dwelled with Israel (Exodus 25:8).

Don't worry Jack - its truth!
 

Jack

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So John is deliberately echoing the Old Testament Tabernacle (σκηνή — skēnē), where God’s presence dwelled with Israel (Exodus 25:8).

Don't worry Jack - its truth!
I'm not worried. I'm not the one saying all of our English Bibles are wrong.
 

Hiddenthings

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Already told you. None agree with you.
Maybe ask a Trinitarian forum member to confirm if "dwelling" is as I've suggested - someone you trust!

Here is the NET translators study note!

The Greek word translated took up residence (σκηνόω, skēnoō) alludes to the OT tabernacle, where the Shekinah, the visible glory of God’s presence, resided.

You ought not to reveal your weakness like that Jack.
 

Jack

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Maybe ask a Trinitarian forum member to confirm if "dwelling" is as I've suggested - someone you trust!

Here is the NET translators study note!

The Greek word translated took up residence (σκηνόω, skēnoō) alludes to the OT tabernacle, where the Shekinah, the visible glory of God’s presence, resided.

You ought not to reveal your weakness like that Jack.
You still didn't find "In John 1:14 we read that the Word “tabernacled” among us" .

John 1:14 (NET1)
14 Now the Word became flesh and took up residence among us. We saw his glory — the glory of the one and only, full of grace and truth, who came from the Father.