How did the Trinity doctrine develop in the early church?

[marks]

The reality of your faith in the incarnation and the hope you place in it will be fully revealed in the last days.

Yes, and no. My faith is not in "the incarnation", rather, in what Jesus did for me.

And you will be revealed then as now, also.

Much love!

 

[RLT63]

Changing things through the translational process.

1. You have to be careful of Hebrew names, they can mean literal things.
2. If people want things bad enough to be in the Bible they will put them there in the translational process.

As far as the devil in the Old Testament, there is a reason that the Jews do not believe in a Devil and Hell….it is because they are not in the Old Testament.

Satan was a character in the Old Testament, and Satan means adversary…..And King David had adversaries….enemies and his concern for their military strength concerned King David. Makes sense.

But because Satan became an adversary of Yahweh in the New Testament…..a Devil….Christians do not understand why he was not a Devil in the Old Testament so they look for one liners to put him there or if they have to they put him there. Case in point the word Lucifer….Lucifer is a Latin word that means Venus. They put a Latin word in a Hebrew scripture. The scripture mentions the morning star….which is Venus which is the morning star so they thought they could get away with it.

Hell in the Old Testament….Hades….Hades is a Greek word. They put a Greek word in the Old Testament. Hades is also used in the New Testament because the concept of Hell was new and they did not have a word for an eternal fiery place of punishment. Hades is a Greek god that reigned over an underworld of the same name. Hell is real.

The whole one liner thing….the virgin birth in Isaiah is referring to Isaiah’s wife who had not had children yet and back then was considered a virgin…..The one liner is in the middle of story about testing the faith of a King.

Knowing the truth is just not about memorization of scriptures. It is good to know the languages and culture and circumstances of the time period that the scripture were written in. If you do not they can pull the preverbal wool over your eyes.

Case in point…..Christ’s mother’s name is Miriam…..but in Hebrew her name means rebellious. The translators did not like name that means rebellious for Christ’s mother so they changed her name to Mary. ( Miriam in the Old Testament was Moses’ sister that was punished by Yahweh for chastising Moses because of his relationship with a Pagan woman. )

In the New Testament….Magi means witch or sorcerer. Because they could not understand or like witches having an interest in Christ they changed the scriptures to say wise men or Kings.

“They” took the name of Yahweh out of the Old Testament 6,800 times and replaced it with the word God or Lord or both.

How many times does the word Jesus appear in the New Testament….it was planted….No one know where it comes from and cannot be translated from any Hebrew or Greek word. The word used for Christ’s name in the New Testament is Ἰησοῦς Iēsous. This is not a name but a Greek word that means healer. Christ’s name is Yeshua….Christ’s mother would not have given Him a Greek word for a name.

No J’s in the scriptures. The Letter J came out in the 15th century and was made popular by Shakespeare. The word used for Christ’s name in the Geneva Bible and the King James Version was Iēsous. Eventually the King James went to Jesus….no one really knows why. The King James adopted the word Jesus and Shakespere's poetic language.

Looking a little deeper into the scripures.

I wonder who tempted Jesus then

 

[Grailhunter]

I wonder who tempted Jesus then

New Testament.
There is no doubt that Satan is defined as the Devil in the New Testament.....but not in the Old Testament. Does that give us an indication of when the fall of the angels occurred? Did the fall of the angels occur between the testaments?

 

[ProDeo]

New Testament.
There is no doubt that Satan is defined as the Devil in the New Testament.....but not in the Old Testament. Does that give us an indication of when the fall of the angels occurred? Did the fall of the angels occur between the testaments?

1Joh 3:8 - Whoever makes a practice of sinning is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the works of the devil.

Gen 3:1 Now the serpent was more crafty than any other beast of the field that the LORD God had made. He said to the woman, “Did God actually say, ‘You shall not eat of any tree in the garden’?”

Very first lie.

 

[RLT63]

New Testament.
There is no doubt that Satan is defined as the Devil in the New Testament.....but not in the Old Testament. Does that give us an indication of when the fall of the angels occurred? Did the fall of the angels occur between the testaments?

Genesis 6 suggests there were some naughty angels before then

 

[Grailhunter]

Genesis 6 suggests there were some naughty angels before then

Are you talking about the sons of God?

 

[Grailhunter]

1Joh 3:8 - Whoever makes a practice of sinning is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the works of the devil.

Gen 3:1 Now the serpent was more crafty than any other beast of the field that the LORD God had made. He said to the woman, “Did God actually say, ‘You shall not eat of any tree in the garden’?”

Very first lie.

The Old Testament is pretty large volume. Yahweh spoke to people and the prophets were speaking. Plenty of time for Yahweh to speak of the Devil to people and plenty of time to warn them if he was a threat. They do not waist to much time in the New Testament.

The association with the serpent and Satan is New Testament, but no talking serpents in the New Testament.

 

[RLT63]

Many people are just used to it....I personally have found it frustrating all my life. Getting hold of a modern English Bible was life changing for me....for the first time, I had clarity...the Bible spoke to me.

There is no need to speak Shakespearean English as if that was the original language of the Bible...it is a translation and always has been.....and it is out dated now. No one speaks like this anymore in their everyday speech, and if they did we would think them weird...lost in some sort of time warp.

I have no idea what drives this attachment to one translation....as if God himself translated it....we know that God inspired the Bible writers, but men did the translating.

What's missing from your Bible?

Majority Text vs. Critical Text vs. Textus Receptus - Textual Criticism 101 - Berean Patriot Note: The following is from a study I did and not taken from the above link. The linked article is very long but very informative. So how did we end up with changes and verses being deleted out of the...

www.christianforums.com

 

[RLT63]

Are you talking about the sons of God?

Yes

 

[ProverbsInPink]

Shield of the Trinity - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The shield is deceptive. God is not separate from Holy Spirit,nor is Holy Spirit an offshoot of God. God is Holy Spirit. And His Son is Himself made manifest,begotten,so to be Messiah.

 

[Hiddenthings]

I wonder who tempted Jesus then

James 1:14 “But each person is tempted when he is lured and enticed by his own desire.”

 

[St. SteVen]

What's missing from your Bible?

Majority Text vs. Critical Text vs. Textus Receptus - Textual Criticism 101 - Berean Patriot Note: The following is from a study I did and not taken from the above link. The linked article is very long but very informative. So how did we end up with changes and verses being deleted out of the...

www.christianforums.com

Do you believe that verses were removed from the Bible? (KJV vs NIV)

 

[Grailhunter]

Yes

Those verses pose more questions than answers. Were they some type of divine being or angel, that could marry and impregnate women? As the verses read there were giants in the land before the women were impregnated.
The offspring of these marriages were called mighty men of renown.....that sound like praise. Did these men battle the giants like David did? Did Yahweh disapprove of the sons of men marrying the daughters of men?
If so He did not say so.

 

[Aunty Jane]

Say it in one sentence and stay purely factual.

Seriously....you are capable of reading only one sentence?

Is the Bible only written in one sentence? Can explanations gleaned after a lifetime of study be stated in one sentence? By what stretch of whose imagination does serious study and explanation result in one liners? Those who demand such must have the attention span of a goldfish.

I have been a teacher for most of my life and when it comes to any Bible subject...I would like to know how you study all the aspects of that subject, and contain it in one sentence....your posts are empty. You are big on criticism but very short on evidence, and only backed up by empty claims. So how are you to be taken seriously?

You brought up the subject.....I addressed it....in detail as I always do, because details are important to me. If they aren’t important to you....don’t ask questions or bring something to the topic if you don’t like the answer.

 

[RLT63]

James 1:14 “But each person is tempted when he is lured and enticed by his own desire.”

What does that say about Jesus?

 

[RLT63]

Do you believe that verses were removed from the Bible? (KJV vs NIV)

There is a good case for most of the verses that have been omitted but in some cases I disagree with the decisions of the editors John 5:4 for one I think should have remained

 

[RLT63]

Those verses pose more questions than answers. Were they some type of divine being or angel, that could marry and impregnate women? As the verses read there were giants in the land before the women were impregnated.
The offspring of these marriages were called mighty men of renown.....that sound like praise. Did these men battle the giants like David did? Did Yahweh disapprove of the sons of men marrying the daughters of men?
If so He did not say so.

I disagree that the text says there were giants in the land before the Sons of God took wives of the daughters of men

Gen 6:4 - The Nephilim were on the earth in those days (and also after this) when the sons of God were having sexual relations with the daughters of humankind, who gave birth to their children. They were the mighty heroes of old, the famous

 

[Hiddenthings]

What does that say about Jesus?

Exactly what the Apostles believed

Hebrews 4:15 “For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but one who in every respect has been tempted as we are, yet without sin.”

 

[RLT63]

Exactly what the Apostles believed

Hebrews 4:15 “For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but one who in every respect has been tempted as we are, yet without sin.”

Luke 4:2 (KJV)
Being forty days tempted of the devil. And in those days he did eat nothing: and when they were ended, he afterward hungered.

Mark 1:13 (KJV)
And he was there in the wilderness forty days, tempted of Satan; and was with the wild beasts; and the angels ministered unto him.

Matthew 4:1 (KJV)
Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil.

 

[Hiddenthings]

Luke 4:2 (KJV)
Being forty days tempted of the devil. And in those days he did eat nothing: and when they were ended, he afterward hungered.

Mark 1:13 (KJV)
And he was there in the wilderness forty days, tempted of Satan; and was with the wild beasts; and the angels ministered unto him.

Matthew 4:1 (KJV)
Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil.

I’m not sure what you’re inferring, RLT.

Are you suggesting you know the identity of the false accuser? If so, then by all means, show me.

There are four commonly held views on Matthew 4:

1. Jesus, in a weakened state, was tempted to misuse God’s power (internal).
2. Jesus was tempted by the Pharisees to join them and take worldly authority (external / internal).
3. An obedient angel of God administered the test (external / internal)..
4. An evil angel carried out the temptation (external / internal).

Points 1 & 2 can be proven easily from the record but points 3&4 are impossible.