How did the Trinity doctrine develop in the early church?

[Hiddenthings]

Ephesians 6:11–12 Paul warns about “schemes” that oppose the believers this includes false teaching: “Put on the whole armor of God, that you may be able to stand against the schemes of the devil.(false accusers)”
You added false accusers, now you are adding to the Word of God. Revelation warns us not to do that

Wow it's like I'm talking to a 5 year old Sunday School student.

The word devil means false accusers - you even quoted this yesterday in an email to me - now its you who is looking silly.

 

[Hiddenthings]

• The Devil (Greek διάβολος, diabolos) means “slanderer” or “false accuser.”

This is you right?

 

[RLT63]

The issue is your inability to read and understand the context of the letter itself let alone how the Apostle uses the word adversary.

No the issue is you trying to force your beliefs onto the text

 

[RLT63]

Wow it's like I'm talking to a 5 year old Sunday School student.

The word devil means false accusers - you even quoted this yesterday in an email to me - now its you who is looking silly.

I haven't emailed you anything. You really have issues and it's kind of scary. I don't want to get any emails from you

 

[RLT63]

This is you right?

That's part of a post I made

 

[RLT63]

Wow it's like I'm talking to a 5 year old Sunday School student.

The word devil means false accusers - you even quoted this yesterday in an email to me - now it's you who is looking silly.

So is this what they teach at your Church? Or have you came to these conclusions on your own?
If I was a 5 year old Sunday school student at your Church is this what I would learn?
What denomination is this?

 

[Jack]

So, do you or don't you believe the Devil is real? Do you believe Jesus is God? Do you believe in Hell Fire? Don't be evasive, again.

Hiddenthings doesn't seem to like answering Bible questions. Do you take Bible 'lessons' with STV?

 

[RLT63]

Hiddenthings doesn't seem to like answering Bible questions. Do you take Bible 'lessons' with STV?

No, he doesn't, he just likes asking questions not answering them

 

[Jack]

No, he doesn't, he just likes asking questions not answering them

That seems to be a common trait of Bible attackers. They run like the Devil from simple questions.

 

[St. SteVen]

That seems to be a common trait of Bible attackers. They run like the Devil from simple questions.

Run FROM the Devil is more like it. - LOL

 

[Jack]

Run FROM the Devil is more like it. - LOL

Is that why you won't answer Bible questions? You believe in the Devil now? You make up your own bible to please YOU.

 

[Hiddenthings]

That's part of a post I made

So you know then your mistake?

 

[Hiddenthings]

So is this what they teach at your Church? Or have you came to these conclusions on your own?
If I was a 5 year old Sunday school student at your Church is this what I would learn?
What denomination is this?

Here it is again!

How did the Trinity doctrine develop in the early church?

If you look at God’s character, you see that He challenges and develops people spiritually, and the fact that Jesus grew in wisdom speaks to His agency. You can read Scripture for yourself and observe how God works with those He loves. It's possible your God grows in wisdom but mine does...

www.christianityboard.com

 

[RLT63]

So you know then your mistake?

I know yours

 

[Jack]

Yes, the context is very clear RLT - you need to read the whole letter to understand who and what the adversary was here.

The Satan in this passage is not a rebel angel but rebellious Jewish adversaries who were undermining Paul’s influence within the Corinthian church (Look up 2 Cor. 10:2, 10–18; 11:3–26). As Paul writes: ‘For such men are false apostles, deceitful workers, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ. And no wonder, for even Satan—the chief opponent—disguises himself as an angel of light. So it is not surprising if his servants, his misguided supporters, also disguise themselves as servants of righteousness’ (vv. 13–15, RSV). This same adversary is mentioned earlier in 2 Corinthians 2:11: ‘Lest Satan should get an advantage of us, for we are not ignorant of his devices

Sorry, RLT—this is one of those doctrines where the more you try to prove it, the deeper into error you end up going

Matthew 25:41
41 Then He will also say to those on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:

 

[RLT63]

Here it is again!

How did the Trinity doctrine develop in the early church?

If you look at God’s character, you see that He challenges and develops people spiritually, and the fact that Jesus grew in wisdom speaks to His agency. You can read Scripture for yourself and observe how God works with those He loves. It's possible your God grows in wisdom but mine does...

www.christianityboard.com

Believe whatever you want but don't try to force your beliefs on others, it's a bad idea

 

[Jack]

So you know then your mistake?

Do you believe Jesus is God?
Do you believe in the EVERLASTING Hell Fire?
Do you believe the Bible is the Word of God?

 

[Aunty Jane]

List of Pro-Trinity/Deity of Christ Bible Passages - Berean Patriot

Below is a list of basically every verse in the whole bible that touches on the Trinity. I didn’t compile this list, but a reader of this website did and it’s posted here with his permission. (There’s actually a short/cool story behind it.) OR keep reading to get to the list of verses without...

www.bereanpatriot.com

That is an interesting read.....and has honest alternatives to express doubt in many cases. Credit for that.

But doubt can only be expressed because there is not one clear statement by either God or his Son that they are one and the same God. For such an important issue concerning the very nature of God himself, shouldn’t there be clear categorical statements throughout the Bible confirming this truth?

In the Hebrew texts for example the plural denoted by “Elohím” can be the plural of majesty. “The Royal WE”......and that the “us” and “our” in Genesis 1:26 is describing the teamwork between Father and Son with the use of God’s spirit to provide the awesome power necessary to bring creation into existence? (Col 1:15-17) The Bible tells us that all things were created “through” the Son.....which denotes agency...something mentioned often in your quote.

If no such clear, unequivocal statements exist, could it be because every single scripture quoted as evidence for the trinity bases it’s conclusion on suggestion or supposition?

Isn’t this how science replaced the Creator with evolution? Every single piece of scientific “evidence” for evolution was based on what the evidence “suggested” in the scientist’s opinions....heavily biased in one direction. Don’t we see exactly the same method used to promote a doctrine that the Bible does not explicitly teach? Is suggestion and conjecture a substitute for clear unequivocal statements?

Why does it matter? Something Jesus said...makes it matter.

“Now this is eternal life—that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you sent. I glorified you on earth by completing the work you gave me to do. And now, Father, glorify me at your side with the glory I had with you before the world was created.” (John 17:3-4 NET)

Jesus made knowing “the only true God” AND the one he “sent”, a salvation issue. If the God we know is not the same one whom Jesus served, then we are worshipping a false god, in contravention of the first Commandment given to Israel. (Exodus 20:3; Deut 6:4)

Then we have to ask, why then is knowing the third and equal person of the trinity, not mentioned?

Jesus said that he came to glorify his Father, not himself. He was doing the work he was “sent” to do as “God’s holy servant” (Acts 4:27, 30) He was completing God’s work.....and asking to be restored to the glory he had before the world was created. So we know that he was in existence...at his Father’s side, before material creation existed.

Jesus is often spoken of as being at God’s right hand, and yet not one Scripture says that the Holy Spirit is at his left.....
In Col 1:15, Paul speaks of Jesus as “the firstborn of all creation” and states that all creation came through the son.....that is agency. (John 1:2-3) Another clear statement.

Prov 8:22-31 prophetically confirms his role...

“The Lord [Yahweh in the original Hebrew] created me as the beginning of his works, before his deeds of long ago. From eternity I have been fashioned, from the beginning, from before the world existed. When there were no deep oceans I was born, when there were no springs overflowing with water; before the mountains were set in place—before the hills—I was born, before he made the earth and its fields, or the top soil of the world. When he established the heavens, I was there; when he marked out the horizon over the face of the deep, when he established the clouds above, when he secured the fountains of the deep, when he gave the sea his decree that the waters should not pass over his command, when he marked out the foundations of the earth, then I was beside him as a master craftsman, and I was his delight day by day, rejoicing before him at all times, rejoicing in the habitable part of his earth, and delighting in its people.” (NET)

The existence of God’s son goes back way before creation…he was “the beginning“ of God’s “works”.
Rev 3:14 says that he is “the beginning of God’s creation”….so when you have clear statements, how can you ignore them?

 

[Jack]

ONLY God is the Creator. He called Himself US and OUR!

Gen 1:26 God said, "Let US make man in OUR image according to OUR likeness."

Father, Son and Holy Spirit, no matter how much WatchTower puppets twist the Hell out of the Bible!

From the CYB Statement of Faith: "We believe that God is the Creator, Sustainer, and Ruler of the universe. We attest that God has eternally existed in three persons: the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. These three are co-equal and are one God. (Genesis 1:1, 26-27, Genesis 3:22, Deuteronomy 6:4, Psalm 90:2, John 1:1, John 10:30, Romans 3:30, II Corinthians 13:14, I Peter 1:2)"

 

[RLT63]

That is an interesting read.....and has honest alternatives to express doubt in many cases. Credit for that.

But doubt can only be expressed because there is not one clear statement by either God or his Son that they are one and the same God. For such an important issue concerning the very nature of God himself, shouldn’t there be clear categorical statements throughout the Bible confirming this truth?

In the Hebrew texts for example the plural denoted by “Elohím” can be the plural of majesty. “The Royal WE”......and that the “us” and “our” in Genesis 1:26 is describing the teamwork between Father and Son with the use of God’s spirit to provide the awesome power necessary to bring creation into existence? (Col 1:15-17) The Bible tells us that all things were created “through” the Son.....which denotes agency...something mentioned often in your quote.

If no such clear, unequivocal statements exist, could it be because every single scripture quoted as evidence for the trinity bases it’s conclusion on suggestion or supposition?

Isn’t this how science replaced the Creator with evolution? Every single piece of scientific “evidence” for evolution was based on what the evidence “suggested” in the scientist’s opinions....heavily biased in one direction. Don’t we see exactly the same method used to promote a doctrine that the Bible does not explicitly teach? Is suggestion and conjecture a substitute for clear unequivocal statements?

Why does it matter? Something Jesus said...makes it matter.

“Now this is eternal life—that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you sent. I glorified you on earth by completing the work you gave me to do. And now, Father, glorify me at your side with the glory I had with you before the world was created.” (John 17:3-4 NET)

Jesus made knowing “the only true God” AND the one he “sent”, a salvation issue. If the God we know is not the same one whom Jesus served, then we are worshipping a false god, in contravention of the first Commandment given to Israel. (Exodus 20:3; Deut 6:4)

Then we have to ask, why then is knowing the third and equal person of the trinity, not mentioned?

Jesus said that he came to glorify his Father, not himself. He was doing the work he was “sent” to do as “God’s holy servant” (Acts 4:27, 30) He was completing God’s work.....and asking to be restored to the glory he had before the world was created. So we know that he was in existence...at his Father’s side, before material creation existed.

Jesus is often spoken of as being at God’s right hand, and yet not one Scripture says that the Holy Spirit is at his left.....
In Col 1:15, Paul speaks of Jesus as “the firstborn of all creation” and states that all creation came through the son.....that is agency. (John 1:2-3) Another clear statement.

Prov 8:22-31 prophetically confirms his role...

“The Lord [Yahweh in the original Hebrew] created me as the beginning of his works, before his deeds of long ago. From eternity I have been fashioned, from the beginning, from before the world existed. When there were no deep oceans I was born, when there were no springs overflowing with water; before the mountains were set in place—before the hills—I was born, before he made the earth and its fields, or the top soil of the world. When he established the heavens, I was there; when he marked out the horizon over the face of the deep, when he established the clouds above, when he secured the fountains of the deep, when he gave the sea his decree that the waters should not pass over his command, when he marked out the foundations of the earth, then I was beside him as a master craftsman, and I was his delight day by day, rejoicing before him at all times, rejoicing in the habitable part of his earth, and delighting in its people.” (NET)

The existence of God’s son goes back way before creation…he was “the beginning“ of God’s “works”.
Rev 3:14 says that he is “the beginning of God’s creation”….so when you have clear statements, how can you ignore them?

Proverbs 8 is speaking of Wisdom and refers to it as a female
Pro 8:1 - Does not wisdom call out? Does not understanding raise her voice?
Pro 8:2 - At the top of the elevated places along the way, at the intersection of the paths she takes her stand;

Pro 8:3 - beside the gates opening into the city, at the entrance of the doorways she cries out:
It’s not about Jesus