"Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned."

[TrevorHL]

Greetings again Davy,

Let me say that again -- Holding communion with Christ is another thing; it CAN... be performed in the HOME. Ever hear of home Churches?

In my region there are eight meetings in my fellowship, and I have selected the one where I feel more comfortable. It would be strange and unnecessary for me to start a small home church.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[Davy]

Greetings again Davy,

In my region there are eight meetings in my fellowship, and I have selected the one where I feel more comfortable. It would be strange and unnecessary for me to start a small home church.

Kind regards
Trevor

Not talking about starting home churches. I'm talking about the error some have of thinking their Church organization or buildings are what Christ's True Church of The Spirit is about. It ain't. No flesh man, nor material structure on earth can act as a replacement or substitute for the True Church of The Spirit. All... believers on Jesus Christ are members of the True Church of The Spirit, which can never be corrupted by any man, nor any angel, not even by the coming antichrist, nor the devil.

This is why the "temple of God" Apostle Paul pointed to in 2 Thessalonians 2:4 is about the coming false-Messiah sitting in a traditional Jewish stone temple in Jerusalem, and not Christ's Church. That Jewish 3rd temple isn't standing there today on the Temple Mount, but that doesn't mean it won't be built when that false-Messiah appears there in Jerusalem at the end of this world.

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

If we insert baptism into the verse as a requirement for salvation we must also insert seeing him as a requirement as well

Jn 6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

That's not the case over here:

Mark 16:16
He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

The problem is some want to believe it's OK to disobey the Lord.

This is how we know they are listening to the devil because they are saying it's OK to ignore the Lord's instructions which is satan's calling card.

 

[JLB]

Mark 16:16 - He who believes and is baptized will be saved (general cases without making a qualification for the unusual case of someone who believes but is not baptized) but he who does not believe will be condemned.

The omission of baptized with "does not believe" shows that Jesus does not make baptism absolutely necessary for salvation. Condemnation rests on unbelief and not on a lack of baptism. *NOWHERE does the Bible say, "baptized or condemned."

If water baptism was absolutely required for salvation, then we would expect Jesus to mention it in the following verses. (3:15,16,18; 5:24; 6:29,40,47; 11:25,26) Yet what is the ONE requirement that Jesus mentions NINE different times in each of these complete statements *BELIEVES. *What happened to baptism? *Hermeneutics.

John 3:18 - He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who (is not water baptized? - NO) does not believe is condemned already, because he has not (been water baptized? - NO) because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

The Baptism by which we are born again is neither water baptism, nor the baptism with the Holy Spirit.


The baptism by which we are born again is when we “believe” the Gospel and are baptized by the Spirit into Christ.

For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free—and have all been made to drink into one Spirit. 1 Corinthians 12:13


This is the first of three baptisms which are distinctly recognized by the baptizer; in other words who is doing the baptizing.

In this initial baptism it is the Spirit that baptizes us into Christ, this is when we are born of the Spirit;
born again.

The Spirit is the Baptizer.

In water baptism, a human being is the baptizer.

In the baptism with the Holy Spirit, Jesus is the Baptizer.


You may not agree, but I think we agree that we are not saved by water baptism.

 

[TrevorHL]

Greetings again Davy,

Not talking about starting home churches. I'm talking about the error some have of thinking their Church organization or buildings are what Christ's True Church of The Spirit is about. It ain't.

Fair enough. I agree that there is only one true "ekklesia", those that have been called out of the world by the Gospel.

This is why the "temple of God" Apostle Paul pointed to in 2 Thessalonians 2:4 is about the coming false-Messiah sitting in a traditional Jewish stone temple in Jerusalem, and not Christ's Church.

I disagree with this popular view. I believe that 2 Thessalonians is speaking about the development of the Catholic Church and their opposition to Christ when he returns and Jesus and the faithful establish the Temple in Jerusalem and Jesus sits upon the Temple Throne of David in Jerusalem for the 1000 years Isaiah 2:1-4.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[mailmandan]

The Baptism by which we are born again is neither water baptism, nor the baptism with the Holy Spirit.

The baptism by which we are born again is when we “believe” the Gospel and are baptized by the Spirit into Christ.

For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free—and have all been made to drink into one Spirit. 1 Corinthians 12:13

This is the first of three baptisms which are distinctly recognized by the baptizer; in other words who is doing the baptizing.

In this initial baptism it is the Spirit that baptizes us into Christ, this is when we are born of the Spirit;
born again.

The Spirit is the Baptizer.

In water baptism, a human being is the baptizer.

In the baptism with the Holy Spirit, Jesus is the Baptizer.

You may not agree, but I think we agree that we are not saved by water baptism.

We agree that we are not saved by water baptism.

 

[JLB]

We agree that we are not saved by water baptism.

Do you agree that 1 Corinthians 12:13 baptism takes place before water baptism and is the baptism by which we are born again?

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

You may not agree, but I think we agree that we are not saved by water baptism.

No, but what happens to those that choose to disobey the Lord and refuse to get water baptized?

Jesus specifically tied baptism to salvation.

The devil's message to mankind is it's OK to be disobedient to the Lord, and the false teachers who listen to the devil tell everyone they can still be saved as the stand in opposition to the Lord in sin.

Those having opportunity to be baptized and choose to disobey God's Word are disobeying the Gospel and the wrath of God comes upon the children of disobedience (knowingly disobeying the Lord is an evil desire, see Colossians 3:5,6).

If someone's situation is like the thief on the cross who did not have opportunity to be water baptized, that's the only time the Lord would still received them in to His Kingdom, such as someone getting saved on their death bed.

 

[mailmandan]

Do you agree that 1 Corinthians 12:13 baptism takes place before water baptism and is the baptism by which we are born again?

Yes.

 

[JLB]

No, but what happens to those that choose to disobey the Lord and refuse to get water baptized?

Jesus specifically tied baptism to salvation.

The devil's message to mankind is it's OK to be disobedient to the Lord, and the false teachers who listen to the devil tell everyone they can still be saved as the stand in opposition to the Lord in sin.

Those having opportunity to be baptized and choose to disobey God's Word are disobeying the Gospel and the wrath of God comes upon the children of disobedience (knowingly disobeying the Lord is an evil desire, see Colossians 3:5,6).

If someone's situation is like the thief on the cross who did not have opportunity to be water baptized, that's the only time the Lord would still received them in to His Kingdom, such as someone getting saved on their death bed.

You make some good points that shouldn't be ignored.


If we have the opportunity to get water baptized they why wouldn't we want to obey the Lord?

 

[Davy]

Greetings again Davy,

Fair enough. I agree that there is only one true "ekklesia", those that have been called out of the world by the Gospel.

I disagree with this popular view. I believe that 2 Thessalonians is speaking about the development of the Catholic Church and their opposition to Christ when he returns and Jesus and the faithful establish the Temple in Jerusalem and Jesus sits upon the Temple Throne of David in Jerusalem for the 1000 years Isaiah 2:1-4.

Kind regards
Trevor

Thinking Paul's "temple of God" means Christ's Church in ANY situation is a ruse by the false Jews.

The era of Christian brethren that believed a pope was the antichrist/man of sin was in the 16th century Europe with the Protestant Reformation. They believed the persecutions by the Catholic Church upon them as Protestants then represented the end with the prophesied antichrist. The end didn't happen then, and Christ did not return as required per the end time prophecies dealing with the antichrist. But some have continued that old belief against the Catholic Church and a pope, as a ruse to get brethren's attention off the real antichrist that is prophesied to appear in JERUSALEM, and not Rome.

That's right, God's written Word prophesies the antichrist/false-Messiah/man of sin will come of the Jews, and will be setup as king by the orthodox Jews in JERUSALEM, not Rome.

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

If we have the opportunity to get water baptized they why wouldn't we want to obey the Lord?

People hear others say we should not get water baptized and so they follow the anti-baptism crowd

One would think people that love the Lord would spend time finding out out what He says on major topics like this and then do what the Lord says out of love, honor, and respect for the Lord with the understanding that He knows what's best for us and it's to our advantage to do what He says otherwise we are deceiving ourselves

James 1:22
But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.

The real problem here is too many are following man made religion, the wisdom of man and don't know where their Bible is much less what's in it.

 

[amigo de christo]

That's not the case over here:

Mark 16:16
He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

The problem is some want to believe it's OK to disobey the Lord.

This is how we know they are listening to the devil because they are saying it's OK to ignore the Lord's instructions which is satan's calling card.

his , as in satans , most active callling card by which he has and is uniting all tribes , all relgions
IS HIS ECUMENICAL INTERFAITH card .
AND how did it come to power
BY USE OF HIS VICTIM CARD and JUDGE NOT CORRECT NOT SEEKER FRIENDLY CARD .
Just a friendly reminder to us all . AS IN BOY THEY DUPED THE HECK out of christendom with a false love card .

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

his , as in satans , most active callling card by which he has and is uniting all tribes , all relgions
IS HIS ECUMENICAL INTERFAITH card .
AND how did it come to power
BY USE OF HIS VICTIM CARD and JUDGE NOT CORRECT NOT SEEKER FRIENDLY CARD .
Just a friendly reminder to us all . AS IN BOY THEY DUPED THE HECK out of christendom with a false love card .

It's sad that you don't know anything else about the Gospel.

 

[amigo de christo]

It's sad that you don't know anything else about the Gospel.

you might wanna rethink my friend .
For by grace its not I who knows not about the gospel .
ITS YA ECUMENICAL INTERFATIH whores that KNOW NOT the ACTUAL GOSPEL as THEY DENY IT .
When o when is this people gonna wake up .
It aint me going around hollering to the muslims , buddists , to even christains and all ,
that we serve the same GOD . THEY DID THAT . JESUS GOT DENIED .
So please do not expect me to SIT AT THAT TABLE of false love
of unifying under a harlot
I expose darkness , i dont make deals with it and try and find out what i have in common with it .
Hope that encouraged ya .

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

you might wanna rethink my friend

EVERY post you make is about the interfaith thing and you apparently have zero knowledge of anything else God's Word teaches about. Sad.

Let's hear you talk about other aspects of being a true believer, that is IF you know anything else

 

[amigo de christo]

EVERY post you make is about the interfaith thing and you apparently have zero knowledge of anything else God's Word teaches about. Sad.

Let's hear you talk about other aspects of being a true believer, that is IF you know anything else

You the one who said i do not know about the gospel
all i said is NO ITS ECUMINECAL INTERAITH that knows NOT the gospel . but do beware
cause they can quoate it but then turn around and DEN Y IT .
Wolves in wool . Oh yea there are many now my friend . AND OH yeah that can talk about good works
and love and yet BE LEADING YOU ASTRAY the whole time . Just a friendly , b ut necessary , REMINDER .

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

You the one who said i do not know about the gospel

Well there are other things to talk about other than the false ecumenical movement.

Let's hear you talk about something other than the ecumenical movement

 

[amigo de christo]

Well there are other things to talk about other than the false ecumenical movement.

Let's hear you talk about something other than the ecumenical movement View attachment 74025

How about we do as we are led to do .
Besides if you me and others went to a meeting
and the discussion was going on and being discussed
IF one looks up and sees the ROOF is on F IRE
well he gonna warn folks the ROOF IS ON FIRE and WE NEEDS TO GET OUT before teh whole house comes down
on us all with flames .
SO , SEEING that most everyone i know is already under some sway of this ecumeincal interfaith of anti christ
YOU can understand why i has to warn . Folks hoping in these politicians and in their church leaders . MAN they are going down
on the day of the LORD . AND again seeing i desire only good for them and not their destruction
WELL ECUMINEICAL INTERFAITH and all who pratice and support it , HAS TO BE EXPOSED . Have to be corrected
Someone gotta do somet hing , way too many are already in love with the love of a harlot and NOT THAT WHICH IS OF GOD .

 

[amigo de christo]

Well there are other things to talk about other than the false ecumenical movement.

Let's hear you talk about something other than the ecumenical movement View attachment 74025

have you ever seen those videos where some go around
to colleges asking the students the most basic simple questions and yet THEY DO NOT EVEN KNOW them answers .
WELL it aint just the colleges that dont know the simple basics anymore
WE GOTS A TON of christains that dont even really KNOW or BELEIVE THE GOSPEL OF JESUS .
Time for schooling again , T IME for the bible again so as folks can learn again .