Is it possible to lose salvation?

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BreadOfLife

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No the "c"catholic church goes back to the Apostles. The "C" Catholic church goes back to constantine.
And I’ve already proven that to be a falsehood.

The Letters of a FIRST century Catholic Bishop named Ignatius of Antioch describes the Early Church as being unashamedly Catholic:
- They believed in a hierarchy of Bishops, priests and deacons.
- They believed in and worshipped the Eucharist as the Body and Blood of Jesus Christ – and NOT as a symbol.
- They confessed their sins to the Church.
- They believed in the Primacy of Peter and the church at Rome.

And yo0ur problem is that you look at teh church as an organization, whilw we look at it as an organism.
Wrong. We look at the Church as the Body of Christ – the pillar and foundation of truth (1 Tim. 3:15) - he fullness of Him (Eph. 1:22-23).
Jesus recoognizes no denominations in heaven. Only if His blood was applied to ones sin debt or not.
Correct. The Catholic Church isn’t a denomination
It’s the Original Tree from which Protestant denominations splintered – and continue to splinter . . .

Well if romanists can go to AI, it surely must be OK for non-Romanists to as well!
And as I stated before – I don’t get my theology from Artificial Intelligence . . .
And once again your opinions of what I know are so far wrong as to be laughable.
I have read church history
," Life and time of Jesus the Messiah" by Alfred Eddersheim,." Life of Jesus the Messiah from a Hebrew Perspective", 4 vol. by Dr. Arnold Fruchtenbaum.

"Manners and Customs of the bible" by James Freeman

"The First Three Christian Centuries: A History Of The Church Of Christ, With A Special View To The Delineation Of Christian Faith And Life From A.d. 1" by Isley Burns and several of the 30 volumes of the "work of the ante-Nicene Fathers.

So I do have more than just a cursory view of the culture of jesus day.

So what is your training and learning in the manners, customs and culture of Jesus day??????
And Charles Manson read the Bible – but I wouldn’t call him a Bible scholar . . .

Reading
is a FAR cry from
understanding . . .
 

BreadOfLife

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Wow ytour complete lack of Jewish culture is hugely showing!

I’m sorry that you are so gullible as to be taken in by a single false teacher.

Here’s a little advice: If something sounds wacky, chances are that is IS - and you should look for corroborating evidence . . .
 

MonoBiblical

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He wasn’t Joseph’s child. Joseph was His foster-father. GOD was His Father.
Joseph pretended he was his blood relative.

The use of “adelphos” as being other that uterine sibling was in use 200 years before Jesus was born.
We see examples of this in the Septuagint:
- In Gen. 14:14, Lot is called Abraham’s "adelphos", even though he was his nephew (Gen. 11:26–28).

- Gen. 29:15, Jacob is referred to as the "adelphos" of his uncle Laban.

- Brothers Kish and Eleazar were the sons of Mahli. Kish had sons of his own, but Eleazar’s daughters married their "adelphoi”, the sons of Kish - who were actually their cousins (1 Chr. 23:21–22).

The Hebrew word “ach” has the SAME broad meaning as the Greek “adelphos” – and always has.
YOU just make up your nonsense as you go along . . .
My version of co-uterine was too limited. You have to yet admit your mistakes.
 

MonoBiblical

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And thou doesn’t understand that Jesus wasn’t talking about Passover in John 3.

Like I said – you’ll pervert God’s Word just to
disagree.
The New Testament is a new passover. Because Jesus returned long ago, there are plenty of reinterpretations of it. Yet it is about Israel and its proselytes. That is why you see more anti-idol stuff, then pro-trinity stuff in it.
 

Big Boy Johnson

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Joseph pretended he was his blood relative.

Joseph was not pretending anything - he was being obedient to the Lord to take care of Jesus and be a father unto Him as Jesus grew up.

And then Joseph quit being mentioned in God's Word so he must have died or something.

He was an honorable man so we know he wouldn't have left the family so that's out.


You have to yet admit your mistakes.

Catholics don't admit their mistakes, they just dig in deeper
 
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MonoBiblical

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@Big Boy Johnson
[Luk 2:48-50 NKJV] 48 So when they saw Him, they were amazed; and His mother said to Him, "Son, why have You done this to us? Look, Your father and I have sought You anxiously." 49 And He said to them, "Why did you seek Me? Did you not know that I must be about My Father's business?" 50 But they did not understand the statement which He spoke to them.

Joseph got into the role too much and his wom[a]n copied him.
 
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Big Boy Johnson

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Joseph got into the role too much and his women copied him.

It's true that Jesus was to serve The Father first and foremost, but it's also true that Jesus obey His parents as that is pleasing to the Lord and is taught throughout scripture.

If you keep reading you'll see in verse 51 that Jesus was submitted unto them which He did as to be obedient to the scripture to obey parents.

It was not yet time for Jesus to enter His ministry
 

SirJamsalot

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James also affirmed this truth when he said;

"Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back, let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins."
This verse reveals that a believer can wander away from the truth and face spiritual death unless they repent and return to God.

The Bible does provide examples of those who lost their salvation. Judas Iscariot was one of the twelve apostles chosen by Jesus, yet he betrayed the Lord for thirty pieces of silver. Jesus Himself said about Judas;
Thank you for taking Jesus’ warnings seriously. We absolutely must. But I also don’t think the Lord meant His sheep to live every day in terror, wondering if they will slip through His fingers. The same God who chose us from eternity is strong enough to keep us in time.

Scripture starts the story of salvation before we were born:

“He chose us in him before the foundation of the world… having predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will.” Eph 1:4–5

“Those whom he predestined he also called; and those he called he also justified; and those he justified he also glorified.”​
Rom 8:29–30

That golden chain doesn’t have a “fall off in the middle” link. If God set His love on you before the foundation of the world, there is no future moment where He says, “Never mind.”

Jesus speaks the same way:

“All that the Father gives me will come to me, and the one who comes to me I will by no means cast out… this is the will of the Father… that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day.”​
John 6:37–39
“My sheep hear my voice… and I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of my hand.” John 10:27–28

The Westminster Confession simply tries to summarize this: those whom God has accepted in Christ “can neither totally nor finally fall away from the state of grace, but shall certainly persevere to the end.” Not because we are strong, but because He is.

So what about the warning passages you quoted? The narrow gate, the rocky soil, branches burned, dogs returning?

I read those as the very means God uses to keep His true children watchful and humble. Jesus’ parable of the sower says some “believe for a while” but have no root. They look real for a time, but trials expose the heart.

John later describes such people this way: “they went out from us, but they were not of us” 1 John 2:19. There is a deep and sobering difference between being around the things of God and being born from above.

That’s why I don’t think these texts are meant to make a regenerate believer live in constant dread, but to strip away false confidence and drive us to Christ over and over.

The God who warns, also promises:

“He who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ.” (Phil 1:6)​
We are “kept by the power of God through faith for salvation.”​
1 Pet 1:5
“Now to Him who is able to keep you from stumbling, and to present you faultless before the presence of His glory with exceeding joy…”​
Jude 24

And in all of this, your thought about our purpose and our trials is so important. God did not make us to be aimless. Paul says that we will one day judge angels (1 Cor 6:3). We were made a little lower than the angels for a time, yet crowned with glory and honor in Christ (Ps 8; Heb 2). Our destiny in Him is higher than theirs.

But the way there is not by downloading humility like software; it is learned in the school of suffering, just as it was for our Lord:

“Though He was a Son, yet He learned obedience by the things which He suffered.”​
Heb 5:8

If the sinless Son learned obedience through suffering, how much more will we? Our temptations, our stumblings, our painful sanctification - they are not signs that God is eager to drop us, but tools in His hand to humble us and conform us to Christ. He resists the proud, but gives grace to the humble.

So yes, we must heed the warnings. Yes, we must endure to the end. But I don’t believe the Christian life is meant to be a daily coin-flip over whether we are still saved. Rather, it is a life of clinging to the Savior who first clung to us:

“We love Him because He first loved us.”​
1 John 4:19

If He loved you before the foundation of the world, called you by His Spirit, gave you a new heart, and united you to His Son, then the deepest comfort is this: the God who chose you is the God who will keep you; through all your trials, all your tears, all your repenting and learning; until the day He presents you blameless with great joy.

I should like to add this word of encouragement for my brothers and sisters in Christ dealing with the hurt and concern of losing your salvation. Your hurt and concern are a blessing - they demonstrate that at the bare minimum, unlike those who hate and rebel against God, you feel his call enough to be concerned about your salvation.

The Westminster Confession prepares us for those dark seasons when a true believer feels given up by God. It says our assurance can, “for a time, be shaken, diminished, and intermitted” through sin, temptation, or God’s wise withdrawal of His felt presence - yet never so that we are left without “the seed of God” or the life of faith in us. David knew this anguish: “How long wilt thou forget me, O LORD? for ever? how long wilt thou hide thy face from me?” (Psalm 13:1); “Hide not thy face far from me; put not thy servant away in anger… leave me not, neither forsake me, O God of my salvation” (Psalm 27:9). Those cries are not signs of a lost saint, but of a hurting one still clinging to God. Even when we feel forsaken, He is using that very valley to humble us, draw us back to Himself, and in due time restore our joy, because His hold on us is deeper than our feelings about Him.

I have felt that anguish, and resolve to never feel it again, God willing. My prayers are the same for you.

In His Grip
A worthless sinner, yet by Christ do I stand
 
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LoveYeshua

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Thank you for taking Jesus’ warnings seriously. We absolutely must. But I also don’t think the Lord meant His sheep to live every day in terror, wondering if they will slip through His fingers. The same God who chose us from eternity is strong enough to keep us in time.

Scripture starts the story of salvation before we were born:

“He chose us in him before the foundation of the world… having predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will.” Eph 1:4–5

“Those whom he predestined he also called; and those he called he also justified; and those he justified he also glorified.”​
Rom 8:29–30

That golden chain doesn’t have a “fall off in the middle” link. If God set His love on you before the foundation of the world, there is no future moment where He says, “Never mind.”

Jesus speaks the same way:

“All that the Father gives me will come to me, and the one who comes to me I will by no means cast out… this is the will of the Father… that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day.”​
John 6:37–39
“My sheep hear my voice… and I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of my hand.” John 10:27–28

The Westminster Confession simply tries to summarize this: those whom God has accepted in Christ “can neither totally nor finally fall away from the state of grace, but shall certainly persevere to the end.” Not because we are strong, but because He is.

So what about the warning passages you quoted? The narrow gate, the rocky soil, branches burned, dogs returning?

I read those as the very means God uses to keep His true children watchful and humble. Jesus’ parable of the sower says some “believe for a while” but have no root. They look real for a time, but trials expose the heart.

John later describes such people this way: “they went out from us, but they were not of us” 1 John 2:19. There is a deep and sobering difference between being around the things of God and being born from above.

That’s why I don’t think these texts are meant to make a regenerate believer live in constant dread, but to strip away false confidence and drive us to Christ over and over.

The God who warns, also promises:

“He who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ.” (Phil 1:6)​
We are “kept by the power of God through faith for salvation.”​
1 Pet 1:5
“Now to Him who is able to keep you from stumbling, and to present you faultless before the presence of His glory with exceeding joy…”​
Jude 24

And in all of this, your thought about our purpose and our trials is so important. God did not make us to be aimless. Paul says that we will one day judge angels (1 Cor 6:3). We were made a little lower than the angels for a time, yet crowned with glory and honor in Christ (Ps 8; Heb 2). Our destiny in Him is higher than theirs.

But the way there is not by downloading humility like software; it is learned in the school of suffering, just as it was for our Lord:

“Though He was a Son, yet He learned obedience by the things which He suffered.”​
Heb 5:8

If the sinless Son learned obedience through suffering, how much more will we? Our temptations, our stumblings, our painful sanctification - they are not signs that God is eager to drop us, but tools in His hand to humble us and conform us to Christ. He resists the proud, but gives grace to the humble.

So yes, we must heed the warnings. Yes, we must endure to the end. But I don’t believe the Christian life is meant to be a daily coin-flip over whether we are still saved. Rather, it is a life of clinging to the Savior who first clung to us:

“We love Him because He first loved us.”​
1 John 4:19

If He loved you before the foundation of the world, called you by His Spirit, gave you a new heart, and united you to His Son, then the deepest comfort is this: the God who chose you is the God who will keep you; through all your trials, all your tears, all your repenting and learning; until the day He presents you blameless with great joy.
I should like to add this word of encouragement for my brothers and sister in Christ dealing with the hurt and concern of losing your salvation. Your hurt and concern are a blessing - the demonstrate that at the bare minimum, unlike those who hate and rebel against God, you feel his call enough to be concerned about your salvation.

The Westminster Confession prepares us for those dark seasons when a true believer feels given up by God. It says our assurance can, “for a time, be shaken, diminished, and intermitted” through sin, temptation, or God’s wise withdrawal of His felt presence - yet never so that we are left without “the seed of God” or the life of faith in us. David knew this anguish: “How long wilt thou forget me, O LORD? for ever? how long wilt thou hide thy face from me?” (Psalm 13:1); “Hide not thy face far from me; put not thy servant away in anger… leave me not, neither forsake me, O God of my salvation” (Psalm 27:9). Those cries are not signs of a lost saint, but of a hurting one still clinging to God. Even when we feel forsaken, He is using that very valley to humble us, draw us back to Himself, and in due time restore our joy, because His hold on us is deeper than our feelings about Him.

I have felt that anguish, and resolve to never feel it again, God willing. My prayers are the same for you.

In His Grip
A worthless sinner, yet by Christ do I stand
I myself do not fear simply because Jesus promised to send us the Holy Spirit to guide us and more;

Jhn 14:21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.
Jhn 14:22 Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world?
Jhn 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
Jhn 14:24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.
Jhn 14:25 These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you.
Jhn 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
Jhn 14:27 Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid.

and also;

Mat 11:27 All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.
Mat 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
Mat 11:29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
Mat 11:30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

Blessings
 

Christian Soldier

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‘I think you mean “the world”.

The world refers to the “unsaved people of the world”.
God never ever said that His Son came to save the whole world. The Lord Jesus made it crystal clear that He only came to save those the Father gave Him (the elect of God), and we were elected before the world was created, each of our names were written in His book.
The book was closed before creation, and no names can be added or removed. That's the cold harsh reality about salvation. Those of us who's names are written in Gods book are exceedingly glad about it, but those who's names are not in it, hate it.
The fact that most Christians reject what God has said, doesn't make it go away. And twisting the meaning of verses doesn't change the truth of the matter either.

You won't find a single verse to support this idea that God sent His Son to save everyone, and His Son failed to do so and only managed to save a few.

The truth is, God never fails to achieve anything He sets out to do, if God ever failed in anything, then He would be a fraud and a liar.
 

Christian Soldier

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Therefore I endure all things for the sake of the elect, that they also may obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory. 2 Timothy 2:10


We see here that it was Paul’s consuming passion to endure whatever suffering necessary so that the elect would ALSO obtain salvation.


We see that the elect also need salvation.


And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world.
1 John 2:2


‘The blood of Jesus paid the price for the world and for those who are saved.
None of that is true, for a start Paul has nothing to do with anyone's salvation. A sinner can't do anything for another sinner. Only God can an does save His elect, the rest remain condemned to spend eternity in hell.

You can't interpret "The whole world", to mean everyone without exception. That only your private opinion, but there is nothing in the bible to support your private opinion, but there are over 120 verses to prove you wrong.
 

Christian Soldier

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OH JESUS has TRUE CHURCH and it is the BODY of CHRIST . Which HE sure did establish .
AND It darn sure dont sit under ecumenical anti christ interfaith either , nor grabs ahold and loves a lie .
Many are in love with a lie my friend . That the sheep DO NOT DO .
Oh there is one church all right
its scattered all over the world , largely already being cast out of mainstream sold out denominations
who do the work of a harlot .
WHEN churches cast out the words of GOD in favor of getting along and having unity , THAT WAS THEIR DOWNFALL .
Time to bible up . You would be so s hocked
to see how easy things could have been cleared up , IF ONLY folks would have put their noses back into
the bible to actually seek and to learn FROM GOD . But many just wont do that for themselves .
All of my ancestors, going back to around 800AD were/are Roman Catholic. I grew up as a practicing Roman Catholic, until I was converted in my late teens.

Long story short, my family and relatives consider me to be a heretic, traitor and and an apostate. But that's what the Lord Jesus promised would happen to those who follow Him. I take comfort in the fact that they hated the Lord before they hated me, and the only reason they hate me is because He is my Lord.

I still love my family friends and relatives, and I always pray for gospel opportunities. Of all my family fried and relatives, only one has converted so far. That makes me sad and glad at the same time, one is better than none. God will wipe away every tear in heaven and I will praise Him for everything, even if most of my loved ones end up in hell.
 
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MonoBiblical

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All of my ancestors, going back to around 800AD were/are Roman Catholic. I grew up as a practicing Roman Catholic, until I was converted in my late teens.

Long story short, my family and relatives consider me to be a heretic, traitor and and an apostate. But that's what the Lord Jesus promised would happen to those who follow Him. I take comfort in the fact that they hated the Lord before they hated me, and the only reason they hate me is because He is my Lord.

I still love my family friends and relatives, and I always pray for gospel opportunities. Of all my family fried and relatives, only one has converted so far. That makes me sad and glad at the same time, one is better than none. God will wipe away every tear in heaven and I will praise Him for everything, even if most of my loved ones end up in hell.
Are you Orthodox?
 

JLB

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God never ever said that His Son came to save the whole world.

Let's check and see what Jesus taught about this.


  • but that the world through Him might be saved.

For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved
. John 3:16-17


Jesus is teaching us that God desires for all the people of the world to be saved.


Why are you denying this truth?
 
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JLB

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None of that is true, for a start Paul has nothing to do with anyone's salvation. A sinner can't do anything for another sinner. Only God can an does save His elect, the rest remain condemned to spend eternity in hell.

What is not true about what Paul is saying here in this verse?


Therefore I endure all things for the sake of the elect, that they also may obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory. 2 Timothy 2:10


Are you disagreeing that the Holy Spirit through Paul is saying He wants the elect to also obtain salvation?
 

BreadOfLife

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No it doesn't! for baptism in the OT was not any part of the normal life of a Jew. their were the ceremonial baptisms (or ablutions) but they were for ritual and not spiritual discipleship. Learn Jewish culture!
Precisely.

Baptism for the forgiveness of sins and inparture of the Holy Spirit was a NEW experience for the NT age that was foretold in the OT by Ezekiel. And yes – it DOES mirror the way Peter describes the effects of Baptism in Acts 2:38-39.

For some parts of the church. You seem to forget that until teh diaspora took place, there was a massive sharp division between the rites of Jewish Christian worship and Gentile worship.
For your information, the Diaspora started over 700 years before the birth of Christ.

And the SAME Church beliefs and practices described in the Didache are echoed by the Eastern and Western Church Fathers (noon-Jewish) over the next several centuries.

Yes any ekklesia (called out individuals) can speak on Jesus behalf. But mankind cannot kick one out of heaven as Popes have pretended to do.
Excommunication is NOT about “kicking out” anybody from Heaven..

It is a Biblical discipline that is prescribed as a corrective measure designed to bring a person BACK to the fold. It is never intended to be a permanent condition.

Do your
HOMEWORK . . .
And remember that is a man made add on. Just because it is old, doesn't make it biblical. This is changing how Joh the Baptist, Jesus, Philip,Paul and the Apostles baptized by immersion!
First of all - Biblical Christian Baptism in NOT always described as “dunking”. In fact, it almost never is. Acts 2:41 tells us that over 3000 people were Baptized at Pentecost. The logistics of that would be nearly impossible without Baptism by pouring, as described in the Didache.

Secondly, John 21:19 specifically states that Jesus did MANY things that weren’t written down in Scripture, so YOU can’t possibly know everything that He taught the Apostles.
 

BreadOfLife

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Joseph pretended he was his blood relative.
He was the foster-father of Jesus.
GOD was His Father.

My version of co-uterine was too limited. You have to yet admit your mistakes.
My “mistakes”??

I’ve given you the literal and cultural definitions and uses of “Adelphos” from scholarly and Biblical sources. I’ve also provided several Biblical examples.

There’s been NO mistake on MY part . . .
 

Big Boy Johnson

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Are you Orthodox?

Based on God's Word or based on carnal minded man made religion?


Jesus is teaching us that God desires for all the people of the world to be saved.

Why are you denying this truth?

He's following teachings from that murderer John Calvin

I mean, who wants doctrine from a murderer???

1 John 3:15
no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.
 
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