Is it possible to lose salvation?

[ProverbsInPink]

""I hope I'm wrong, but I suspect you might be holding on to a false gospel.""
I accept/believe/trust the teachings of Christ through Paul that teach how believers 'today' enter eternal life 'tomorrow'
Christ selected Paul - Acts 9:10-15.
Paul confirms who he is - Rom 11:13, Rom 15:16
As do the other Apostles - Acts 15:6-25, Gal 2:7-9.
How is Salvation attained today ? Eph 1:13, 1 Cor 15:1-4
What are the conditions ? Titus 3:5, Gal 2:16, Eph 2:8-9, Rom 3:28, Rom 4:5, Rom 5:1
It's not a "private view or opinion", it's what's written in the Bible.

I think those who insist they can lose their salvation,many being Catholic,fail to realize what they're actually saying.

Relative to scriptures in context,and we should all know which ones those are, it is insisting God made a mistake. And didn't realize when He called someone through His grace,having opened their mind to have faith and understand His calling, that they would later lose faith and abandon Him

And as a consequence,God would have to undo all that He did do when His Chosen one was Saved. God would have to undo everything that pertained to being born again.And then, remove His Spirit so to return that one back to their state of being unable to understand the things of God. So that once more such things would be seen as foolishness.

I'm sure all those scriptures that detail God's revocation of His gifts to the redeemed are found on the New Testament somewhere.

I look forward to someone posting those passages asap.

 

[Christian Soldier]

1st off iam NOT YOUR SON. 2nd i dont have time for your fantasy island Calvinism doctrine . last i have no time for you

Run along kid, that's all you can do after you've been thoroughly exposed and humiliated. You've got a lot to learn before you can go toe to toe with me kid

 

[Christian Soldier]

‘This doesn’t say anything about Paul “saving himself”.


Therefore I endure all things for the sake of the elect, that they also may obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory. 2 Timothy 2:10


The scripture says… that they also may obtain salvation.

Yes it does say "that they also may obtain salvation'. But it's not as you say "Paul saves them by his endurance" Let me help you with that, the elect were saved before the world was created. Thank you very much

 

[Christian Soldier]

Here is what Jesus taught.


For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. John 3:16


Who in the world are you saying is excluded from God’s love?

The text doesn't say, "the whole world" as in everyone in the world. It simply says "the world" and that simply means that people from all over the world will be saved, "Not only the Jews". It's very simple, I don't know why you're struggling with such simple straight forward verses.

You didn't take the context of the verse into consideration before you misinterpreted it and misapplied it.

 

[Christian Soldier]

it appears you have either been brainwashed or the cheese has completely slipped off your cracker . the lights on but no body home..

 

[Christian Soldier]

""I hope I'm wrong, but I suspect you might be holding on to a false gospel.""
I accept/believe/trust the teachings of Christ through Paul that teach how believers 'today' enter eternal life 'tomorrow'
Christ selected Paul - Acts 9:10-15.
Paul confirms who he is - Rom 11:13, Rom 15:16
As do the other Apostles - Acts 15:6-25, Gal 2:7-9.
How is Salvation attained today ? Eph 1:13, 1 Cor 15:1-4
What are the conditions ? Titus 3:5, Gal 2:16, Eph 2:8-9, Rom 3:28, Rom 4:5, Rom 5:1
It's not a "private view or opinion", it's what's written in the Bible.

Who are you trying to fool here. You begin by admitting that you don't know what the true gospel is, then you reject what God has said about the truth of the gospel and create your own conditions and requirements to earn salvation. This is pure blasphemy.

Nobody has the authority to change the gospel, I rebuke you for attempting to pervert the truth of the gospel. As an elect Saint of God, I must defend the gospel and stand against those who spread heresy.

 

[Ezra]

ho are you trying to fool here. You begin by admitting that you don't know what the true gospel is,

it appears you dont know either

 

[JLB]

"that they also may obtain salvation'.

The elect refers to the Jews.

The Jews were the elect for purpose not salvation.

 

[JLB]

The text doesn't say, "the whole world" as in everyone in the world. It simply says "the world"

Who are you saying is excluded from the world, that God does not love, and does not desire to save?


For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. 1 Timothy 2:3-4


And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world. 1 John 2:2

 

[PinSeeker]

Here also, if you follow through Acts chapter 2, it begins with

Acts 2:16-18 But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel; And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will
pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions,
and your old men shall dream dreams: And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and
they shall prophesy: And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy

Following through to here

Acts 2:38-39 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins,
And ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

And here we see daughters prophesying, which is in accord with the gift of the Spirit, poured out on them and their sons and daughters

Acts 21:8-9 And the next day we that were of Paul's company departed, and came unto Caesarea: and we entered into the house of
Philip the evangelist, which was one of the seven; and abode with him. And the same man had four daughters, virgins, which did
prophesy.

Not seeing infants there, but the children (sons and daughters) are mentioned earlier in Acts 2 and we also see the daughters of Philip which were given the gift.

Infants are sons and daughters, and sons and daughters are infants. They are only infants for a time, of course. But yes, even infants will eventually prophesy/testify. Absolutely. And in the case of infant baptism, parents are trusting in through faith, that God, in His time, will cause to happen. Sure.

Grace and peace to you.

 

[PinSeeker]

The elect refers to the Jews.

Well, true Jews of God, and Paul defines who those people are in Romans 2:28-29... "For no one is a Jew who is merely one outwardly, nor is circumcision outward and physical. But a Jew is one inwardly, and circumcision is a matter of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter. His praise is not from man but from God." These Jews of God are Gentiles as well as ethnic Jews... all those who are called by God, as Paul later says in Romans 9:23-24, "...in order to make known the riches of His glory for vessels of mercy, which He has prepared beforehand for glory ~ even us whom He has called, not from the Jews only but also from the Gentiles..." These are His elect.

Who are you saying is excluded from the world, that God does not love, and does not desire to save?

For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. 1 Timothy 2:3-4

No one, of course. However... <smile> Let me ask you something personally, JLB, just concerning you. I'm sure you desire many things, but do you always, without exception, act to obtain those desires? Well, obviously, no. Or do you sometimes ~ for good reason(s) ~ not act on those desires and therefore choose not to make those desires a reality? Well, obviously, yes. So, cannot God, even in the matter of salvation, do the same?

This same Paul you quote above also says, in Romans 9, that He made some for "honorable use and (others) for dishonorable use... in order to make known the riches of His glory for vessels of mercy, which He has prepared beforehand for glory ~ even us whom He has called, not from the Jews only but also from the Gentiles..." Unmistakably, this is a limited group of people and not the whole... God's elect, this remnant He has chosen for Himself.

And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world. 1 John 2:2

Right, Jesus's sacrifice was sufficient to accomplish the salvation of everyone... the whole world, in that respect. But if His sacrifice was effectual unto salvation for everyone, then everyone would be saved, and the Bible is crystal clear that that will not be the case.

God talks about the world in different ways... even in different senses... from time to time in Scripture, JLB. You know this. I'm sure you know that Jesus affirmed to Pontius Pilate, that He was a king, and that His kingdom is not of this world. And for us as born-again Christians, we have been called out of the world and into His marvelous light.

Grace and peace to you, JLB.

Grace and peace to you

 

[JLB]

No one, of course. However... <smile> Let me ask you something personally, JLB, just concerning you. I'm sure you desire many things, but do you always, without exception, act to obtain those desires? Well, obviously, no. Or do you sometimes ~ for good reason(s) ~ not act on those desires and therefore choose not to make those desires a reality? Well, obviously, yes. So, cannot God, even in the matter of salvation, do the same?

God desires, wills, and wants all men to be saved, but only those who believe will be saved.


What the word “believe” means in another discussion.

 

[JLB]

Right, Jesus's sacrifice was sufficient to accomplish the salvation of everyone... the whole world, in that respect. But if His sacrifice was effectual unto salvation for everyone, then everyone would be saved, and the Bible is crystal clear that that will not be the case.

‘The Bible is clear that God loves all people and desires them to be saved.


Only those who believe will be saved.

 

[JLB]

And for us as born-again Christians, we have been called out of the world and into His marvelous light.

‘Yes.


What do you believe is required for a person to be born again?

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

Jesus said He would force those that are luke warm out of His Body

Revelation 3:16 - So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.

2 Timothy 2:12 - If we deny Him, He also will deny us

We reap what we sow so if a person turns way from the Lord they are denied by the Lord.

 

[PinSeeker]

God desires, wills, and wants all men to be saved, but only those who believe will be saved.

Right, but regarding those who come to believe... why do they believe? Remember what Jesus said to a group of unbelieving Jews in John 10... They said to Jesus, "If you are the Christ, tell us plainly.” And how did Jesus answer? He said to them, “I told you, and you do not believe... you do not believe because you are not among My sheep."

What the word “believe” means in another discussion.

That's not really the issue. Rather,, it's why one believes what he/she believes regarding God/Jesus.

‘The Bible is clear that God loves all people and desires them to be saved. Only those who believe will be saved.

Agreed. However... See above.

What do you believe is required for a person to be born again?

I would ask you that same question. To at least get at what I believe is required for a person to be born again, I would say: not the work of belief. Nor any work of man. Else grace ~ which is unmerited favor ~ would not be grace, which is exactly what Paul says in Romans 11:6. He says, "if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works; otherwise grace would no longer be grace." And in Ephesians 2:4-5, this same Paul specifically says, "God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which He loved us, even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ ~ by grace you have been saved..."

Look at it this way. In the temporal, physical sense, did you do anything to be born physically of and by your father and mother? Was anything required of you for that to happen, for you to be born however many years ago you were born? Well, in a word, no. Your father and mother decided to... and then... Ah, well, you can finish that sentence, I'm sure. <smile> I mean, I wouldn't call that their grace to you, but you get what I'm sayin'... hopefully... <smile>

In that vein, though, but back on the level of God the Father... what Paul says in Ephesians 2 is in the same breath, really, just a few sentences after what he has just said in Ephesians 1, namely that "He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before Him. In love He predestined us for adoption to Himself as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of His will..."

Grace and peace to you, JLB.

 

[JLB]

That's not really the issue.

‘It’s is the issue. The whole issue.

 

[JLB]

Right, but regarding those who come to believe... why do they believe? Remember what Jesus said to a group of unbelieving Jews in John 10... They said to Jesus, "If you are the Christ, tell us plainly.” And how did Jesus answer? He said to them, “I told you, and you do not believe... you do not believe because you are not among My sheep."

But you do not believe, because you are not of My sheep, as I said to you. My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. John 10:26-27

Contextually Jesus is referring to His disciples.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

It is; we disagree on that. This is a rhetorical question, but let me just pose this question to you. If the promise is for us and our children ~ it is, according to Peter in Acts 2, as I pointed out, and he specifies no "eligible" age... his silence on that speaks volumes ~ then what "age of eligibility" or demonstrated ability would you... stamp your own personal approval on? Life 5 or 6, or 8 or 9 years of age? Or older? Again, it's a rhetorical question, because it would only be your opinion, but I ask it to make a point to you.

Well based on the accounts of SCripture and the usage of the word "household" in reference to being baptized, I would suspect it is someone 12 or older. Babies cannot be baptized for they know not what they are doing. Doctrine by silence is a dangerous thing. All baptisms reported were by consenting "adults" (in that day those 12 or above). Who knew what they were doing. While it does not specifically say one has to be a certain age- the pratice shows it was for adults who were already saved.

I understand, but disagree. When Peter says to the men of Jerusalem to have their entire households baptized, he may be requiring them repent and believe to have their entire households baptized, but he is not placing any prerequisite or requirement ~ age or belief ~ on them to receive this sign and seal of (outward) baptism.

Sorry but baptizing unbelievers is mere foolishness. It accomplishes absolutely nothing in the life of that person.

But Peter is speaking to the listeners there regarding their entire households, and presumably at least some of those households represented there by the men he is addressing contain... babies... people of all different ages and abilities.

As I explained- members of a household were 12-13 and above. Babies were not considered part of the household. Though they are family See Galatians where Paul speaks of teachers.

Galatians 4

King James Version

​

4 Now I say, That the heir, as long as he is a child, differeth nothing from a servant, though he be lord of all;
2 But is under tutors and governors until the time appointed of the father.

Absolutely not. "The promise is for you and your children and all those who are far off."

You can say no- but it is historic fact!

All of which are beside the point: "The promise is for you and your children and all those who are far off."

Still doesn't allow for Baaptism. One has to believe first. Not be baptized as a baby and then hope they will believe after.

This is very likely true, but irrelevant. The disciples joined Jesus quite some time before Peter gave his sermon in Acts 2. And speaking of Jesus, He talked a bit about baptism, too, you know, but He never specified any age or particular ability of which merited baptism ~ even in the famous "let the little children come to Me and do not hinder them, for to such belongs the kingdom of heaven" event described in Matthew 19 ~ and His silence on that also speaks volumes. <smile>

One more time: The sign and seal of God's promise in Old Testament times, circumcision, was given at eight days old, and water baptism has replaced circumcision as the sign and seal of God's promise in New Testament times, our times, so should in the same manner as circumcision be given to people of all ages, even infants, if they have never been baptized before. "The promise is for you and your children and all those who are far off."

Grace and peace to you, Ronald.

And all that does not say let them be baptized. The fact Jesus says nothing about children being baptized as unbelievers also speaks volume when combined with Pauls writings and how they undersatood who was a member of a household.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Acts 2:38
Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Notice it doesn’t say:
Acts 2:38
“Repent and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. And THEN be baptized.”

Mark 16:16
He who believes AND is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned.

1 Pet. 3:21
“Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a good conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ”

YOUR problem is that you cherry-pick through the verses that suit YOU and ignore the others that don’t . . .

How wrong you are again! But you forget that Jesus came to baptize people with the Holy Spirit, not in water! Even 1 peter shows you wrong! For the Baptism that saves is the Baptism of the Holy Spirit, the moment one places their trust in teh death and resurrection of Jesus as the full payment for their sin debt- which you do not believe in that.

No – modern day Christians limit the Diaspora to that short span. Jews know that it started LONG before that .

Well go ask some and learn instead of bloviating useless info.

That’s about the most ignorant and contradictory post you’ve made yet.

First, you say you weren’t talking about excommunication.
THEN, you define what an anathema is – but saying that is is an “excommunication”!
Do you ever THINK before you speak??

And an anathema is NOT a “curse”. As I educated you before – it is a disciplinary measure with the hope that the person returns to the fold.

Yours may be a definition of “Anathema” in a secular sense.
In an ecclesiastical sense, however - it is defined as:

From the Catholic Encyclopedia:
Anathema - Placed on high, suspended, set aside

Well you use a more modern Cathoic encyclopedia. But the old usage of it was to condemn and set a person aside from god- that means a loss of salvation!

In the Roman Catholic Church an anathema is not merely a symbolic protest. Here is the definition of “anathema” from the Catholic Encyclopedia:

Anathema remains a major excommunication which is to be promulgated with great solemnity. A formula for this ceremony was drawn up by Pope Zachary (741-52) in the chapter Debent duodecim sacerdotes, Cause xi, quest. iii. The Roman Pontifical reproduces it in the chapter Ordo excommunicandi et absolvendi, distinguishing three sorts of excommunication: minor excommunication, formerly incurred by a person holding communication with anyone under the ban of excommunication; major excommunication, pronounced by the Pope in reading a sentence; and anathema, or the penalty incurred by crimes of the gravest order, and solemnly promulgated by the Pope. In passing this sentence, the pontiff is vested in amice, stole, and a violet cope, wearing his mitre, and assisted by twelve priests clad in their surplices and holding lighted candles. He takes his seat in front of the altar or in some other suitable place, amid pronounces the formula of anathema which ends with these words: "Wherefore in the name of God the All-powerful, Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, of the Blessed Peter, Prince of the Apostles, and of all the saints, in virtue of the power which has been given us of binding and loosing in Heaven and on earth, we deprive N-- himself and all his accomplices and all his abettors of the Communion of the Body and Blood of Our Lord, we separate him from the society of all Christians, we exclude him from the bosom of our Holy Mother the Church in Heaven and on earth, we declare him excommunicated and anathematized and we judge him condemned to eternal fire with Satan and his angels and all the reprobate, so long as he will not burst the fetters of the demon, do penance and satisfy the Church; we deliver him to Satan to mortify his body, that his soul may be saved on the day of judgment." Whereupon all the assistants respond: "Fiat, fiat, fiat." The pontiff and the twelve priests then cast to the ground the lighted candles they have been carrying, and notice is sent in writing to the priests and neighbouring bishops of the name of the one who has been excommunicated and the cause of his excommunication, in order that they may have no communication with him. Although he is delivered to Satan and his angels, he can still, and is even bound to repent. The Pontifical gives the form for absolving him and reconciling him with the Church. The promulgation of the anathema with such solemnity is well calculated to strike terror to the criminal and bring him to a state of repentance, especially if the Church adds to it the ceremony of the Maranatha. (Emphasis mine.)

Go learn what your own sect teaches.