Are the promises in John 14:12-14 true?

[Cyd]

I've been suppressing my level of disappointment for some time.
- We are promised to do greater things than Jesus did.
- And whatever we ask in His name, He will do it. (sigh)

John 14:12-14 NIV
Very truly I tell you, whoever believes in me will do the works I have been doing,
and they will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father.
13 And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son.
14 You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it.

Hi SteVen.

 

[Cyd]

I asked in Jesus's name for healing for my son's cancer. I didn't get it. Some brothers and sisters in Christ who are a lot holier and a lot more faithful than me joined me in that prayer. He still died, which glorifies neither the Father nor the Son. Now what?

Was that promise just for the 11 guys (12 apostles minus Judas Iscariot) in that room, not for us?

I think we have all had loved ones this seems to happen to... a couple scriptures I was given I will post.. things I never knew or considered.

Isaiah 57:1 (KJV) The righteous perisheth, and no man layeth it to heart: and merciful men are taken away, none considering that the righteous is taken away from the evil to come.

Psalm 116:15 (KJV) Precious in the sight of the LORD is the death of his saints.

 

[Deborah_]

Is the promise is to the church in general, then, and not individuals?

In verse 12, the Greek construction is, "The one believing in me", article in the nominative singular masculine followed by a verb in the participle form. I would interpret that as individuals, though you can look at the Church as a single organism. In verse 13, the Greek construction is a plural verb in the subjunctive mood, "anything ya'll might ask".

Maybe the emphasis is on glorifying Father and Son through the answering of prayer, not on the answering itself.

It's a standard construction: "The one who...(believes)" But it's not the same as "Everyone who..." So I take it to imply that any believer can (potentially) do a miracle - it isn't just the apostles or church leaders. But in practice, it won't be everyone. Paul writes in I Corinthians 12 that we all have different gifts, and not everyone speaks in tongues or performs miracles.
If verse 13 is in the plural, that suggests group prayer, doesn't it? Rather like the promise in Matthew 18:19

I think you're right that the emphasis is on the glorifying of God.

 

[Deborah_]

This sort of whitewashing is infuriating.
I've heard it all my adult life.
This is why I am a recovering evangelical.

So people look at the Scriptures and see the same problems that you see - and they attempt to analyse and understand. Why do you call that "whitewashing"?
Now we may come to different conclusions. Not everyone will be satisfied with the same answer. And unanswered prayer is a big subject; there are more factors involved than just our faith and God's power.

 

[Lambano]

Matthew 21:22
22 And whatever things you ask in prayer, believing, you will receive."

I don't want to argue about your son. Again, I'm SORRY! I lost a son too. I know it was my fault.

I don't want to flick anybody's scar tissue.

The oncologist explained the situation like this: Patients with glioblastomas live about 18 months after first diagnosis. There is no medical cure. When I prayed and when I asked for prayer, I knew what we were up against. Now, I KNOW Jesus CAN heal cancer. Did I know that He WOULD heal Rob? No. But I can't just fight when I know I'll win. We're told to Ask. Seek. Knock. So, was I asking in faith? I live with the guilt of having to wonder if he would've been healed if I had more faith.

Sometimes these simple answers just don't work.

 

[Jack]

I don't want to flick anybody's scar tissue.

The oncologist explained the situation like this: Patients with glioblastomas live about 18 months after first diagnosis. There is no medical cure. When I prayed and when I asked for prayer, I knew what we were up against. Now, I KNOW Jesus CAN heal cancer. Did I know that He WOULD heal Rob? No. But I can't just fight when I know I'll win. We're told to Ask. Seek. Knock. So, was I asking in faith? I live with the guilt of having to wonder if he would've been healed if I had more faith.

Sometimes these simple answers just don't work.

We all make mistakes. That's one reason Jesus died for us.

 

[St. SteVen]

I think we have all had loved ones this seems to happen to...

Thanks for your post.

Why is it the FAILURE of these promises that seems to happen to all of us rather the SUCCESS of these promises?

 

[St. SteVen]

Why do you call that "whitewashing"?

"Nothing to see here, move along, move along."

 

[Jack]

Thanks for your post.

Why is it the FAILURE of these promises that seems to happen to all of us rather the SUCCESS of these promises?

God's promises NEVER fail! People fail to meet the qualifications. Why do you constantly ATTACK God of the Bible?

 

[Lambano]

Explanations for why this scripture is invalid are a bunch of apologetic caveats that are not included in the scripture promises.
The only thing we know for sure is that the likelihood of benefit for these promises is slim to none.
So, what is God doing about it? Nothing it seems.

What DO we do when the theological systems we've been taught break down and the answers we've been taught don't work in real life?

Maybe faithfulness is just staying in the fight?

I passed understanding a long, long time ago
And the simple home of systems and answers we all know
What I thought I wanted, what I got instead
Leaves me broken and somehow peaceful
- Sarah Groves

 

[Lambano]

"Nothing to see here, move along, move along."

And then there's the Jedi Mind Trick...

This isn't a failed promise.

 

[Lambano]

And the gaslight...

If you're not realizing God's promises in your life, you must be doing it all wrong. There must be something wrong with YOU.

 

[shepherdsword]

What DO we do when the systems we've been taught break down and the answers we've been taught don't work in real life?

Maybe faithfulness is just staying in the fight.

I passed understanding a long, long time ago
And the simple home of systems and answers we all know
What I thought I wanted, what I got instead
Leaves me broken and somehow peaceful
- Sarah Groves

I always think on this verse when I am tempted to condemn the Father's ways.

Nu 21:5-9
And the people spake against God, and against Moses, Wherefore have ye brought us up out of Egypt to die in the wilderness? for there is no bread, neither is there any water; and our soul loatheth this light bread. And the Lord sent fiery serpents among the people, and they bit the people; and much people of Israel died. Therefore the people came to Moses, and said, We have sinned, for we have spoken against the Lord, and against thee; pray unto the Lord, that he take away the serpents from us. And Moses prayed for the people. And the Lord said unto Moses, Make thee a fiery serpent, and set it upon a pole: and it shall come to pass, that every one that is bitten, when he looketh upon it, shall live.And Moses made a serpent of brass, and put it upon a pole, and it came to pass, that if a serpent had bitten any man, when he beheld the serpent of brass, he lived.

Jesus said that just as the serpent was lifted up so would He be lifted up:

Jn 3:14-15 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

I have suffered great loss in my life. My Father, mother, sister and brother. I am the only one left. I have also lost 3 close friends in a span of a few years. Whenever I am tempted to complain I look at the cross and consider what the Lord did for me...without complaint. It may come off as some hyper spiritual cliche but I find comfort in knowing that even the Lord Jesus' prayers were not always answered. Why should mine be? The son of man lifted up is a cure for all complaints just as the serpent in the wilderness was. I'm not preaching a sermon at you...just sharing what has helped me.

 

[Lambano]

To be clear, I did witness at least one miracle healing

Do tell!

 

[Lambano]

Interesting that all the testimonies here are of losses not of wins.

I remember one testimony, I think it was when we were doing a study on the Gifts of the Spirit. The guy said his group was praying for healing some woman and they could really feel the Spirit moving - but the lady died anyway. ("The operation was a success, but the patient died".) But another time, they were praying for healing, the patient was really sick, and nobody was feelin' it and everybody was discouraged and they were sure he wasn't going to make it - but God decided to perform a miracle. Go figure.

 

[Lambano]

The one success story I have: We have a guy who regularly attends Sunday worship. R. is kinda private; nobody knows much about him. He doesn't appear to have any family, but he shows up, probably because we have a bus stop in front of our church. And because we give him food and stuff if he needs it. Anyway, he caught CoVid19 during the pandemic. Our pastor wanted to visit him, but back then, CoVid patients were kept in isolation. The doctors said he was in real bad shape and probably wasn't going to make it through the weekend. Our church secretary sent out an emergency prayer request on Friday via text and email. I prayed for him, of course, tacking on the mandatory "inJesus'snamewepray,amen". Riding my bike Sunday evening, I got an email from our secretary. I pulled off the road to read it. Seeing the subject line, I was thinking, "Aw man. This is it. R. is gone, and we can't even give him a decent funeral with the church locked down." Not only had R. made it through the weekend, he had been cured and released from the hospital. What???? I tried to give a prayer of thanks and praise, - but I couldn't speak. But my stunned awe at what God had done probably gave more glory to God than the best prayer I could ever raise.

 

[ProDeo]

I've been suppressing my level of disappointment for some time.
- We are promised to do greater things than Jesus did.
- And whatever we ask in His name, He will do it. (sigh)

John 14:12-14 NIV
Very truly I tell you, whoever believes in me will do the works I have been doing,
and they will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father.
13 And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son.
14 You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it.

I checked the thread if the probable (emphasis added) reason was given already.

Context of John 14:12-14 reads that Jesus spoke to the twelve, not me.

Speaking in Jesus name (boldly said, Jesus do this or that now since You promised) isn't given to every Christian, He is not our slave. This realization made me stop (so common and more or less automatic) ending my prayers with in Jesus name, Amen. I don't have that authority.

Do miracles still happen? Surely. I can testify.

 

[St. SteVen]

Do tell!

I have had many opportunities to pray for people in need. I rarely know the outcome.
But there was one instance where it was clear what happened.

An evening healing service at our church drew a number of people to the front of the church. The leader had everyone in line turn to the right and lay hands on the person in front of them.

I was at the end of the line so there was no one to pray for me.
However, the man in front of me had come in using a cane. (unusual for him) He had an injury that he wanted prayer for. He was in a lot of pain.

We were learning an interview style of praying for the sick/injured. So, I asked him questions to get a benchmark to start from.

I prayed for him and then asked him if he felt anything. He said he felt a tremendous heat on his back where I had been laying hands. I felt it too, but didn't tell him about it. I wanted to hear from him.

So, we pressed in again and kept at it. Then he reported that the pain was gone. He left the prayer line and walked around the sanctuary waving the cane in the air.

Reminded me of this. (the Apostle Peter, a mere human) And he leaping up stood, and walked, and entered with them into the temple, walking, and leaping, and praising God. - Acts 3:8 NIV

The next Sunday morning the healed man testified that he had been healed by God, and he pointed to me as the one who had prayed for him.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Vision like an eagle

I recall it was a Sunday evening service at church. We had a local guest speaker I was familiar with.
After the sermon/teaching he was praying for people at the front of the church, the altar area.
I had gone down to help. Sometimes people go down when they are overwhelmed by the Spirit.
I was there as a catcher. I stood behind those being prayed for to make sure they had
a soft landing if they went down, Worship music was playing in the background.

Everyone had been prayed for, but I remained at the front worshiping God and enjoying his presence.
The song with a lyric "on eagles wings" was playing, so I stretched out my arms and swayed like an eagle in flight.
Just then the minister stepped forward and put a hand on my forehead declaring out loud, "Vision like an eagle!"
It startled me, I didn't anticipate it. But I received what he prophesied over me with a nod and a "Yes."

Nothing unusual happened in that moment. So I went away thinking it was for another time. Indeed.

In the following weeks I began to have a recurring picture in my mind's eye.
I recognized it as a familiar street in a neighboring city. I had no idea what it meant.
But it happened several times. And then stopped.

Several weeks later I was in the downtown area of my town on my bicycle.
I finished my business and was turning around to go home when I remembered the area in the vision,
Since I wasn't far away, I thought I should ride over there and see if there was something there for me.

I rode up one side of the street looking at all the store fronts and anyone that might be there.
For some reason I was completely oblivious to what was happening right across the street. - LOL

I rode as far as I thought I needed to and decided to cross the street in the middle of the block
and go back on the other side. It was then that I noticed a woman examining the back of her car as if it was damaged.
I also noticed that she looked rather sickly. A very pale complexion. Hmm... ???

I crossed the street and went past her. At that moment God spoke to me loudly. "Go talk to that woman."
Then I also noticed the squad car at the scene of an accident that I had overlooked earlier.
As I turned my bike around, I asked God what I should say to her. My question was met with silence.
So typical for these encounters. - LOL

The woman was walking toward me so I stopped my bike. I needed to talk to her. What should I say?
As she neared I spoke up. "It looks like there was an accident here." She affirmed my comment and said she had been
hit by a car coming home from a doctor's appointment. At this point I was face to face with the woman.

She did look VERY sickly. I noticed that her hair was either falling out or growing back, not sure which.
And there were bumps on her head that looked like cancerous growths. So I asked here if she had cancer.

She conceded that she did indeed have cancer. I asked if I could pray for her. She agreed to let me do that.
I dismounted my bike and asked if I could lay a hand on her shoulder. Yes. I stumbled through an awkward prayer.
But I felt God's presence surrounding us. When I finished, she made the sign of the cross on her chest.
I assumed she was Catholic. I bid her well and left for home on my bicycle.

Tears streamed down my face as I considered what had just happened.
The logistics of this divine appointment blew my mind.

 

[St. SteVen]

I remember one testimony, I think it was when we were doing a study on the Gifts of the Spirit. The guy said his group was praying for healing some woman and they could really feel the Spirit moving - but the lady died anyway. ("The operation was a success, but the patient died".) But another time, they were praying for healing, the patient was really sick, and nobody was feelin' it and everybody was discouraged and they were sure he wasn't going to make it - but God decided to perform a miracle. Go figure.

If only one in one hundred was healed, wouldn't it still be worth it to pray?

100% of those we don't pray for don't get healed.

 

[Jack]

If only one in one hundred was healed, wouldn't it still be worth it to pray?

100% of those we don't pray for don't get healed.

Who do you pray to?