Demographic collapse. Capitalism Dies of Childlessness

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amigo de christo

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Fine,

But even then:
what exactly bothered you so much about the U4U program for Ukrainians?
What did white Christians ever do to you?
You really think when Jesus comes He’ll pat you on the back for that?
That’s one.

And two: it still solves nothing.
It’s just your hypothetical assumption that the end of the world will happen before the demographic crisis collapses the whole system.
I don’t think the capitalists are going to sit and wait till the last minute.
The collapse of capitalism is already obvious to every more-or-less sane person.
Most likely they’ll start either a big war or another “pandemic” so they can blame the failure of capitalism on that.
verily verily i write and say unto thee
Its only because the elites know they hold the bag my friend .
You are at war with systems of men . WHEN in truth THERE IS NO SYSTEM of men
ANY GOOD . because the problem lies within the heart of man and greed is known IN ALL THEM SYSTEMS
from communism to democracy to socialism , captialism , ITS ALL about CO NTROLISM and their own gains .
T HERE IS NO SOLUTION that will ever come of man or from man .
THE SOLUTION IS OF GOD , THE ANSWER COMETH OF HIM
only many are not in love with HIS CH RIST but at most love another jesus all together .
THERE IS NO HOPE in men . THERE is no hope in any govts of men .
THERE BE ONLY HOPE IN GOD and no mat ter what system a man of GOD is in
whether under communism , democracy , or ev en in prison , that man has his hope IN GOD .
And his peace BY GOD . ITS ALL ABOUT the heavenly , something many even in wool no longer
even knows . So you all can war over captilism or whatever ism there is
I HAVE ALL , for I HAVE CHRIST . no matter if i be in prison or on the run . I HAVE ALL .
 

Chrysostomos

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Two out of how many? Big deal! It's like I said, those are just the exceptions...and how's that working out now? Why haven't you moved there?
Two out of how many?
Let’s count properly:

1. National-Socialist Germany 1933–1939: TFR from 1.58 → 2.4 in six years.

2. Gaddafi’s Libya 1969–2011: population tripled, TFR stable above replacement.

3. Late USSR 1981–1987 (peak Brezhnev/Andropov/Gorbachev pro-natalist policies): TFR ~2.4–2.5.

4. North Korea (socialist): TFR held above 2.0 until the 2020s (1970s: 3.5–4.0; 1980s: 2.5–3.0; 1990s: 2.0–2.5; 2000s: 1.9–2.1; 2010s: 1.8–1.9; 2023: ~1.8) — still above many capitalist peers despite famine and sanctions.

5. Israeli kibbutzim (ongoing, 100+ years): TFR 3–4 inside the communes, while the capitalist part of Israel is at 2.9 and falling.

Meanwhile the “rule” you defend — pure, unregulated capitalism — has produced:

- South Korea (capitalist): TFR crashed from 4.5 in 1970 to 0.72 in 2023 (Seoul: 0.59) — the lowest in human history.
1980s: from 2.8 in 1980 to 1.56 in 1989
1990s: from 1.6 in 1990 to 1.2 in 1999
2000s: stable low, e.g. 1.21 in 2005
2010s: from 1.23 in 2010 to 0.98 in 2019
2020s (to 2023): 0.7–1.0 (0.75 in 2023; Seoul: 0.59)
- Japan, Italy, Spain, Greece, Taiwan, Singapore: all under 1.3
- USA, UK, Germany: 1.6 and falling fast

So the real “exceptions” are the capitalist countries that somehow still manage to stay above 1.0.

You keep calling working examples “exceptions” while your own system is delivering the fastest population collapse in recorded human history.

P.S.
You still haven’t said a word about the kibbutzim — voluntary, pure-communism communes in Israel that have thrived for 100 years with TFR 3–4 (higher than the national 2.9).
Can’t find anything bad to say about communism when it’s "Jewish"?
 

Chrysostomos

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We "Westerners"? As if ALL people who live West think alike, even though many of them came from different parts of the world?
When it comes to demographics, all people think exactly the same way. 100 %.
There is not a single human being who thinks differently from everyone else on this.
If you disagree, I’m waiting for examples:
show me even one person whose children come from somewhere other than the way they come for all the rest of humanity.
Go ahead, I’m listening.
It's a shame that you really believe that.

Didn't God pretty much wipe out everyone on the planet except for Noah and HIS family?

Did you ever think that what's going on is PART of God's plan?
This cannot be used to justify an economic system that only benefits the top 1%.

Using the Flood to defend billionaire oligarchs and mass childlessness is straight-up blasphemy.
80-90% of the people will NOT choose that option. I think you're catastrophizing.
No, I'm not catastrophizing.. I'm being realistic.
Percentage of Childless Women in South Korea (TFR 0.7)
- Among working women aged 25–45, over 60 % have no plans to have children (2024 survey).
- Among newlyweds, 47.5 % are childless (2023).
- Overall for women aged 25–39, 63.5 % say they could accept a childless life (2024; higher for non-regular workers).

This means ~60–65 % of current prime-age women in South Korea are effectively choosing zero children, driving the TFR to historic lows.
Actually, it IS a personal spiritual problem.

It's not a money problem or a childbirth problem or a capitalism problem or a communist/socialist problem, yadda, yadda, yadda.

It's a problem within individuals. Greed, Lying, Selfishness, Hate, Adultery, Superiority and especially PRIDE (a.k.a. Ego). You know...every VICE the Bible warns us about.
...and when capitalism collapses, other systems will collapse along with them.
Capitalism is going to collapse very soon.
That is not an opinion.
That is a mathematical fact.
 

Ronald David Bruno

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U4U program for Ukrainians?
What did white Christians ever do to you?
I never said anything about the U4U program. I don't have a problem with vetting Ukrainians and requiring them to have a sponsor who will sign the immigration papers and support them if they can't support themselves _ for up to ten years ... Like I did with my ex- East German wife and her child. It's legal. Those laws were in place since 1998.

The collapse of capitalism is already obvious to every more-or-less sane person.
Most likely they’ll start either a big war or another “pandemic” so they can blame the failure of capitalism on that.
Probably. But the movie, "Leave the World Behind", just might be the scenario that collapses the whole system- which would be part of the Great Tribulation.
 

Chrysostomos

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I do not think that you have the brain power to work out that their are wheels within wheels = corruption working and hiding within anything in fact, or can you not fathom that their are such workings ! like some criminal can noit be playing 2 sided or all !

I had a mate who's dad is Danish and my mum is Danish, so mate was talking about WW2 and what he would of done ! I pointed out that yes such as he may of become a Hero ! but I would have regard for my fellow people in fact and never ever would I do what he claimed he would do ! as what was peddling, He would sell out his own Towns people for a gutless act that would get children killed and women, like tossing them to the wind !
So he would gladly pop out of nowhere and open fire and then just disapear !
So I said, Hero ! what do you think will happen to the by standing Danish people ?
They would of all been gunned down, you stupid idiot moronic fool ! and then they would grab other people and have them shot ! some tortured before hand and then shot, so as to make a example of them, if anyone should want to be a Hero !

So nowadays we hear of Hero's ? who are not Hero's at all in fact but retarded butchers !
What was clearly a Hero in days gone by is not clearly understood as to why and what is truly a Hero in fact !
Not to mention other words that have been bastardised in fact, like it's the lower end of town that is on display as in dominating the roost ! they know bugger all for they are full of ignorance. all of the dipsticks mouthing off and backing up the whore Media ! bagging all who are above them, typical Socialist who have a masive inferiority complex ! who bag our SAS because of what the media whore claim ! but all who bad mouted our SAS could not even make the grade in fact for a start let alone the discipline !
The Head of the Australian Defence force at the time was a inbreed total jerk ! and clearly just another Gay in the leadership of Clowns. who treat our people in the ADF shockingly, like way out of line stupid jerk would only do.

Such as They hung them out to dry !

The day will come when the people of Ukraine deeds will come under the spotlight as well, lucky you are hiding away Chry ! but you are feeding the Flames for sure and adding to the deaths and a bastardisation that will go on for years with the younger generation who grow up fatherless etc and all that such created ! Good luck for their African and Arab new step father that you inflicted on the next generation buster.
Ukraine has sold it's Soul for the greed of Anti-Christ Dogs because they whored you all out ! your just to stupid to know it yet. The enemy is not Russia in fact ! it's Stupidity ! Stupid is as stupid does ! just remember that. when the day comes and are asked what did you do during the War ? well you are hiding and mouthing off ! Kill kill kill ! like all of the gutless Ukraine Jerks in Australia that came running away.
Oh not all people from Ukraine here are jerks, for they know what is truly going on, I have talked to them.

I say stop the War ! because it's a joke ! and wrong from the start !

You demand War and only War !
We already discussed Ukraine in this thread, didn’t we?

You clearly know nothing about Ukraine, and I’m not going to start another clone of the pointless back-and-forth I had with @JohnDB.

What exactly do you have against migrants in Ukraine?
Are you a racist?
What difference does it even make to you?
You seem to worry about Ukraine more than actual Ukrainians do.
 
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Chrysostomos

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I never said anything about the U4U program. I don't have a problem with vetting Ukrainians and requiring them to have a sponsor who will sign the immigration papers and support them if they can't support themselves _ for up to ten years ... Like I did with my ex- East German wife and her child. It's legal. Those laws were in place since 1998.
You keep saying Jesus is coming back “in a few years.”
So why do you care about 10-year sponsors, affidavits of support, and 1998 immigration laws?

Or maybe you’re not actually that confident about “Jesus coming soon” when it comes to real people and real 10-year legal obligations?
Probably. But the movie, "Leave the World Behind", just might be the scenario that collapses the whole system- which would be part of the Great Tribulation.
Exactly.

If the collapse is inevitable (and it is — the math is screaming), the 1 % aren’t going to sit quietly and wait for the empty cradles to finish them off.
 

Chrysostomos

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verily verily i write and say unto thee
Its only because the elites know they hold the bag my friend .
You are at war with systems of men . WHEN in truth THERE IS NO SYSTEM of men
ANY GOOD . because the problem lies within the heart of man and greed is known IN ALL THEM SYSTEMS
from communism to democracy to socialism , captialism , ITS ALL about CO NTROLISM and their own gains .
T HERE IS NO SOLUTION that will ever come of man or from man .
THE SOLUTION IS OF GOD , THE ANSWER COMETH OF HIM
only many are not in love with HIS CH RIST but at most love another jesus all together .
THERE IS NO HOPE in men . THERE is no hope in any govts of men .
THERE BE ONLY HOPE IN GOD and no mat ter what system a man of GOD is in
whether under communism , democracy , or ev en in prison , that man has his hope IN GOD .
And his peace BY GOD . ITS ALL ABOUT the heavenly , something many even in wool no longer
even knows . So you all can war over captilism or whatever ism there is
I HAVE ALL , for I HAVE CHRIST . no matter if i be in prison or on the run . I HAVE ALL .
VERILY, VERILY I say unto thee:

The GREAT WHORE is NOT some vague “greed in every heart.”
She hath a name, a throne, and a golden cup in her hand this very hour:
TRANSNATIONAL FINANCE CAPITAL, the 1 % that sitteth upon the beast!

She bindeth the nations with chains of compound interest,
she stealeth the future with her usury,
she turneth houses into lifelong debt and children into a luxury none can afford.
Year after year the yoke groweth heavier, the noose tighter, the air thinner,
until whole peoples gasp their last and die childless under her heel.

This is no mere “sinful heart.”
This is the Mystery Babylon
with her offshore palaces, her BlackRock temples, her hedge-fund priests.

But behold!
The Lord cometh with ten thousands of His saints
to execute judgment upon the great whore and all her merchants!

WOE! WOE! unto the kings of the earth that committed fornication with her!
WOE unto the offshore billionaires and the money-changers!
In one hour shall their judgment come!

The Lamb shall break her cup,
shatter her chains,
and set the prisoners free.

MARANATHA!
Even so, come, Lord Jesus!
 

ProverbsInPink

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Propaganda,likely by N Korea. There's nothing like those who don't know what a Ponzi Scheme or Capitalism is,making videos and BS memes so to mislead poorly educated people.
 
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ScottA

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I simply presented official statistics that show a universally recognized demographic crisis.
Then I did 2 + 2 = 4: capitalism only survives on growth, growth is gone → capitalism will soon be gone too.

How exactly does that say anything personal about me?
I personally have zero demographic problems.
And no individual human being has a “demographic problem”:

- If someone has kids, their problem is how to clothe, house, feed, and raise them.
- If someone has no kids, there is no problem at all.

The demographic crisis is a problem of the entire society, not of any single individual.

Stop turning objective numbers into my personal drama.
That’s not a mirror.
That’s just a calculator.
What makes this personal, is it is your thread, and you have been venting.

I've made my point: The solution you seek is not possible with men, but that is what you are proposing. Which makes you or anyone else proposing the same foolish.

I also explained God’s actual purpose and solution. In other words, to continue just puts this on you all the more.
 

ScottA

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Two out of how many?
Let’s count properly:

1. National-Socialist Germany 1933–1939: TFR from 1.58 → 2.4 in six years.

2. Gaddafi’s Libya 1969–2011: population tripled, TFR stable above replacement.

3. Late USSR 1981–1987 (peak Brezhnev/Andropov/Gorbachev pro-natalist policies): TFR ~2.4–2.5.

4. North Korea (socialist): TFR held above 2.0 until the 2020s (1970s: 3.5–4.0; 1980s: 2.5–3.0; 1990s: 2.0–2.5; 2000s: 1.9–2.1; 2010s: 1.8–1.9; 2023: ~1.8) — still above many capitalist peers despite famine and sanctions.

5. Israeli kibbutzim (ongoing, 100+ years): TFR 3–4 inside the communes, while the capitalist part of Israel is at 2.9 and falling.

Meanwhile the “rule” you defend — pure, unregulated capitalism — has produced:

- South Korea (capitalist): TFR crashed from 4.5 in 1970 to 0.72 in 2023 (Seoul: 0.59) — the lowest in human history.
1980s: from 2.8 in 1980 to 1.56 in 1989
1990s: from 1.6 in 1990 to 1.2 in 1999
2000s: stable low, e.g. 1.21 in 2005
2010s: from 1.23 in 2010 to 0.98 in 2019
2020s (to 2023): 0.7–1.0 (0.75 in 2023; Seoul: 0.59)
- Japan, Italy, Spain, Greece, Taiwan, Singapore: all under 1.3
- USA, UK, Germany: 1.6 and falling fast

So the real “exceptions” are the capitalist countries that somehow still manage to stay above 1.0.

You keep calling working examples “exceptions” while your own system is delivering the fastest population collapse in recorded human history.

P.S.
You still haven’t said a word about the kibbutzim — voluntary, pure-communism communes in Israel that have thrived for 100 years with TFR 3–4 (higher than the national 2.9).
Can’t find anything bad to say about communism when it’s "Jewish"?
Those are your examples of successful communal living? Good luck with that!

Let us know when you get settled in one of them--be sure to send us a postcard!
 
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Reggie Belafonte

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We already discussed Ukraine in this thread, didn’t we?

You
Migrants in Ukraine ? I do not think they have come yet dear boy !

But Ukraine will be swamped after this stupid War and Ukraine will never be the same again.
I said you will be swamped with other people and the children of all their dadys that were killed will have new dadys who are not Ukraine but from Africa, Arabs and China etc for sure pushed on them that will take their place, but that's clearly No regards that for and dipstick Socialist tho. because such are to stupid to understand such things, nor care !

I would be for Ukraine so as too have their own dadys, but you could not care less, typical Socialist !

Yes I am a Racist and proud of it !
Because I clearly do understand who is who in the Zoo and clearly support people to have their own Nations and cultures ! good on them !

Not like Socialist, who clearly work so too undermine all Perople and Cultures in fact, for their set gods that are Lies ! to make all people equal is retarded and total evil in fact !
But that is a key Socialist Target that they play on fools who know no better in fact, for they are so shallow and short sighted that they just follow along just like how the Nazis were Played and Communist !

Like who says you have no right to an opinion ! be it right or wrong ? Socialist Do in fact !
That's their whole adgenda in fact, just as Nazis and Communist demand all to be Politicaly Correct or else ! do you even understand the issue of even that !

If one does not like my Race, I could not give a rats ! I may even agree with them or inform them or even worse things in that regard !
I do not have an inferiority complex about any such at all in fact ! bag my Nation, bag my Race, bag my family, I could not care less ! because if such is True, all Good !
and if it's other wise that's fine to ? but if it's due to ones ignorance or malice, that's clearly only on them ! Fools !

Oh you know what I do not Idolise my fellow Australians, but I have my own opinions on all such and will say so openly as my forefathers of this Nation once clearly had did in fact.
Not to mention that everyone knew and respected all peoples right to an opinion and never ranted like a Nazi or Communist would do ! and demand ! because I remember them days before the Socialist took hold making childish demands on everyone like a queer Satanic grub would intend, because such a one can not handle not being man enough do deal with reality !
Like Oh someone is ofending me being a grub !

So they demanded Grubs rights !

The right to be a grub, as all grubs are equal ! but then they bastardised the Law and make it, that all people are equal !
So they are demanding all are grubs in fact, just as they are !
Well I say No !

Racial Prejudice is totaly another story in fact, tho good buddy, for such a one is a retard who does not understand what he is saying in fact, nor cares less but is of malice and stupidity !

But the Socialist have worked over so many years too make racist become racial prejudice !
So most young people do not have a clue about the difference and it works a treat on simple minded people as well, due to Trendy tossers who think that they are at the top end of Town ! but Trends have no foundations in fact ! and all trendy are just dupes !

I can openly say what the History of Australia is to be proud of and what not to be and even in betwen.
But the Socialist claims creation of my Nation is so full of so much hair brain pathetic childish dribble in fact ! it is really deranged and full of lies because it''s comming from Socialist dipsticks who are clearly delusional and evil intent, so as to undermine all that was great about the people who indured great hardship to build this Nation !
Only for some gutless wing bag's dictating opinions who could not in their wildes dream deal with what others indured. Nor care less in fact !

The Socialist clearly work, so as only to undermine the Aboriginals, playing every creepy card they can !
The true Aboriginal has been totaly Stolen by a Mob of evil dictating white clowns who have truly stolen that very identity in fact, from the real Aboriginal People in fact !
But the majority of Australians would not have a clue at all, they swallow it all ! why because they are so shallow and short sighted dupes who just go along with the flow, period ! Morons !

The difference that Ukraine makes to me, is that I do not want to support War mongering dipsticks or to be forced into WW3 by such Evil demonic forces. that are clearly at hand !

You are clearly proof of that, you do not seriously truly care about the people of Ukraine !
But I do care about all People, for I do understand the reasons why, They are Lost !
 

Gottservant

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[...]
Everyone has to give birth, everyone in every layer of society.
Some international group cannot give birth for everyone else.

[...]

Now tell me: how did that solve the demographic crisis?
Oh ok. I thought it was another prediction about sustainability - you actually mean "no-one has enough resources, without everyone having children"? I know of someone who is 'just taking care of kids, not having them' are they helping or hindering the situation?
 

Chrysostomos

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Propaganda,likely by N Korea. There's nothing like those who don't know what a Ponzi Scheme or Capitalism is,making videos and BS memes so to mislead poorly educated people.
The TFR numbers I gave for North Korea come straight from the United Nations Population Division (World Population Prospects, medium-fertility variant), exactly the same source used for every other country on earth.
Not a single figure from Pyongyang, not a meme, not propaganda. Just the UN.

So tell me:
how exactly am I trying to “mislead poorly educated people” by quoting the same United Nations data you accept for South Korea, Japan, Italy, and the USA?

The demographic crisis in the West is not an opinion.
It is the current academic, governmental, and financial consensus.

And the fact that capitalism can only survive with permanent population and GDP growth is not a theory.
It is an axiom.
 

Chrysostomos

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Those are your examples of successful communal living? Good luck with that!

Let us know when you get settled in one of them--be sure to send us a postcard!
What “communal living” are you even talking about?

I was born in the USSR.
My parents received a separate, private apartment at 22 — ours alone, no strangers.
Then a three-room apartment that only our family ever used: our keys, our kitchen, our bathroom, our front door.
I had my own room, my parents had theirs, and no one else ever lived there or even had a key.

Not a kommunalka, not a dorm, not “communal” in any way.
Just a normal family apartment — used exclusively by one family.
I already wrote this in this very thread (see post #165):

Do you seriously think socialism/communism is all about communal apartments and forced co-living?
What a nightmare!
You're a complete ignoramus.
And here I am still trying to have a serious conversation with you.
Go study first what socialism actually is and how people lived in socialist countries.
Stop embarrassing yourself any further!
 

Chrysostomos

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What makes this personal, is it is your thread, and you have been venting.

I've made my point: The solution you seek is not possible with men, but that is what you are proposing. Which makes you or anyone else proposing the same foolish.

I also explained God’s actual purpose and solution. In other words, to continue just puts this on you all the more.
You didn't say a single word on the actual topic.
Everything you wrote is pure off-topic noise and personal attacks.
 

Chrysostomos

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Yes I am a Racist and proud of it !
So that's why you're so worried about Ukrainians: the fewer Ukrainians there are, the fewer racists like you will be left in the world?
Relax.
Ukrainian racists are grown adults.
They can decide for themselves what to do.
 

Chrysostomos

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Oh ok. I thought it was another prediction about sustainability - you actually mean "no-one has enough resources, without everyone having children"? I know of someone who is 'just taking care of kids, not having them' are they helping or hindering the situation?
Watch the video in the main post about South Korea.
One person “just taking care of other people’s kids” does zero to fix that.
 

Ronald David Bruno

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You keep saying Jesus is coming back “in a few years.”
So why do you care about 10-year sponsors, affidavits of support, and 1998 immigration laws?

Or maybe you’re not actually that confident about “Jesus coming soon” when it comes to real people and real 10-year legal obligations?
I am a citizen of the Kingdom of Heaven, but still in the flesh and a citizen of the USA. I believe in personal responsibility, laws, a strong work ethic... captialism ... conservative values across the board. I was always taught to occupy until He comes, live your life, be good - all that. Governments and authorities He appointed must all do their part as righteously as able to. And because we see lawlessness, civil unrest, calamities, catastrophes, wars, pestilence, famines, wars, natural disasters, all increasing in frequency, it is a sign that we are in the Beginning of Sorrows ( Matthew 24). One of the main prophetic signs before His return is Matthew 24:14 that the gospel would be spread to every nation and kingdom and then the end would come. We have recently accomplished that.
There are bother signs, but you apparently are not privy to them or agree with them. So I guess just go ahead and keep spinning your wheels. When it finally hits, you'll snap out of it.
 

Chrysostomos

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I am a citizen of the Kingdom of Heaven, but still in the flesh and a citizen of the USA. I believe in personal responsibility, laws, a strong work ethic... captialism ... conservative values across the board. I was always taught to occupy until He comes, live your life, be good - all that. Governments and authorities He appointed must all do their part as righteously as able to. And because we see lawlessness, civil unrest, calamities, catastrophes, wars, pestilence, famines, wars, natural disasters, all increasing in frequency, it is a sign that we are in the Beginning of Sorrows ( Matthew 24). One of the main prophetic signs before His return is Matthew 24:14 that the gospel would be spread to every nation and kingdom and then the end would come. We have recently accomplished that.
There are bother signs, but you apparently are not privy to them or agree with them. So I guess just go ahead and keep spinning your wheels. When it finally hits, you'll snap out of it.
You’re mixing up two completely different things.

I have never denied the signs of Christ’s return.
I simply cited UN official statistics showing the universally recognized demographic crisis, then showed the mathematically inevitable collapse of capitalism that follows from it.
I’m not the only one saying this; demographers, economists, and even capitalists like Elon Musk are screaming the same thing from the rooftops.

But every time I do, you derail the thread with “Jesus is coming soon, so none of this matters” … while in the same breath demanding 10-year sponsors and blocking the U4U program for Ukrainians.

So make up your mind:

- Either the Rapture really will happen soon and nothing matters: no borders, no laws, no 10-year affidavits, no capitalism, nothing.
- Or faith in the soon return of Christ does not cancel the duty to care for the next generation.
 

ScottA

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Feb 24, 2011
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What “communal living” are you even talking about?

I was born in the USSR.
My parents received a separate, private apartment at 22 — ours alone, no strangers.
Then a three-room apartment that only our family ever used: our keys, our kitchen, our bathroom, our front door.
I had my own room, my parents had theirs, and no one else ever lived there or even had a key.

Not a kommunalka, not a dorm, not “communal” in any way.
Just a normal family apartment — used exclusively by one family.
I already wrote this in this very thread (see post #165):

Do you seriously think socialism/communism is all about communal apartments and forced co-living?
What a nightmare!
You're a complete ignoramus.
And here I am still trying to have a serious conversation with you.
Go study first what socialism actually is and how people lived in socialist countries.
Stop embarrassing yourself any further!
"Communal" is a word you used. I was quoting you. The fact that you don't know that EXPLAINS ALOT.