Rapture ... soon?

[David in NJ]

Good follow up.

Jesus said - `It is not for you to know the times and seasons which the Father has put in His won authority. But you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be witnesses to me in Jerusalem and in all Judea, and to the end of the earth.` (Acts 1: 7 & 8)

The times and seasons they did not know however Paul taught the Thessalonians that the Day of the LORD, (period of time) starts the `sudden destruction,` and that they are NOT in that time. That is new revelation from the head of the Body.

`But concerning the times and seasons you have no need that I should write to you for you yourselves know perfectly that the Day of the LORD so comes as a thief in the night.....But you, brethren are not in darkness that this Day should overtake you as a thief...` (1Thess. 5: 1, 2 & 4))

As to the 11 (& later 12) disciples they witnessed of Christ`s life, death and ascension. (Acts 1: 22) They witnessed to the people of Israel of Christ being Lord and Messiah. (Acts 2: 36)

And did you want to make a point?

the MOST IMPORTANT TRUTH of all Scripture, only second to CHRIST

Please look again and = thank you Marilyn

 

[Marilyn C]

According to Jesus, the opposite would occur:

Matthew 21
43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.
44 And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder.
45 And when the chief priests and Pharisees had heard his parables, they perceived that he spake of them.

The nation "nation bringing forth the fruits thereof":

1 Peter 2
5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.
9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;

AKA The Church.

God did not make an `oops` when He made the nation of Israel and promised them that they would rule over the nations of the world. The `nation` Jesus was referring to was when He would restore the kingdom rule to Israel, just as the 11 disciples were asking.

There are NO scriptures that say that the Body of Christ has replaced the nation of Israel.

 

[David in NJ]

God did not make an `oops` when He made the nation of Israel and promised them that they would rule over the nations of the world. The `nation` Jesus was referring to was when He would restore the kingdom rule to Israel, just as the 11 disciples were asking.

There are NO scriptures that say that the Body of Christ has replaced the nation of Israel.

UH-OH

 

[Marilyn C]

the MOST IMPORTANT TRUTH of all Scripture, only second to CHRIST

Please look again and = thank you Marilyn

Is that the Head of His Body has sent the Holy Spirit to guide us into all the truth of His character and His purposes for - the Body of Christ, for Israel and for the Nations.

 

[David in NJ]

God did not make an `oops` when He made the nation of Israel and promised them that they would rule over the nations of the world. The `nation` Jesus was referring to was when He would restore the kingdom rule to Israel, just as the 11 disciples were asking.

There are NO scriptures that say that the Body of Christ has replaced the nation of Israel.

The Scriptures are there Marilyn, you just cannot SEE as yet - hopefully soon = Yes?

 

[David in NJ]

Is that the Head of His Body has sent the Holy Spirit to guide us into all the truth of His character and His purposes for - the Body of Christ, for Israel and for the Nations.

HalleluYAH

 

[Marilyn C]

I'm not going to be nice when someone is promoting a doctrine of demons as you are doing. There is only one gospel and only ever has been one gospel.


I don't need any lectures from someone who tries to promote horrible false doctrine that makes a mockery of the one true gospel of Jesus Christ.


They were mistaken at that time about the nature of the kingdom, but they understood it after Pentecost. He had already told them that the kingdom does not come with observation (Luke 17:20) and is not of this world (John 18:36), but they weren't understanding that yet at that point. That's why Jesus said what he did in Acts 1:8. The kingdom is spiritual and heavenly in nature and is not just for Israel. Gentile believers are fellow citizens and fellow heirs with Jewish believers (Ephesians 2:11-3:6).


Paul revealed things that were already true. It's not as if the body of Christ didn't exist until Paul wrote his letters.

You haven`t proven that the 11 disciples knew of the Body of Christ. it was only to Paul at first was the revelation given. Thus the Body of Christ is a further revelation - more good news.

And you SI are treading very dangerously to being reported for accusations. We are here to discuss not accuse.

Yes I agree that Jesus spoke of His kingdom rule as in the heart. Glad you also see that it is for Israel and the gentiles and of a heavenly nature for that is Christ`s nature.

Yes, the Body of Christ was before Paul, however believers did not know what it was all about and how it functioned. Christ the Head of the Body revealed the Body of Christ to Paul and what was the Lord`s purpose for it.

 

[Marilyn C]

The Scriptures are there Marilyn, you just cannot SEE as yet - hopefully soon = Yes?

.......?????

 

[David in NJ]

.......?????

It begins in Genesis = you know, the place where Christ and His Bride are hidden.

Revealed in the Gospel of John and then Peter and Paul and back to John

Finally Revelation.

CLUE: CHRIST is the Alpha and the Omega

 

[Marilyn C]

It begins in Genesis = you know, the place where Christ and His Bride are hidden.

Revealed in the Gospel of John and then Peter and Paul and back to John

Finally Revelation.

CLUE: CHRIST is the Alpha and the Omega

That is conjecture.

The `bride` purpose is revealed in the OT (Isa. 54: 5 & 5, Hosea 2: 19 & 20) and the book of Ruth reveals the purpose of the nearest kinsman, Christ.

The bride symbol in Revelation, the city was promised to the OT saints. (Heb. 11: 16)

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

You haven`t proven that the 11 disciples knew of the Body of Christ.

It doesn't matter what they knew at the time. Is the truth dictated by what they knew before they received the Holy Spirit and gained further understanding? Of course not. The body of Christ is simply a reference to the church. To those who belong to Christ. How can you think the body of Christ didn't exist until Paul revealed it? He wasn't revealing something that came into existence at the moment he wrote about it. He was revealing something that wasn't previously made clear about what the blood of Christ accomplished, which is that it brought OT and NT saints, Jews and Gentiles, together as one body of Christ.

it was only to Paul at first was the revelation given. Thus the Body of Christ is a further revelation - more good news.

A revelation of something that had already been true since the death and resurrection of Christ. You act as if the body of Christ didn't exist until Paul wrote about it. That's ridiculous.

And you SI are treading very dangerously to being reported for accusations.

You promote things that blatantly contradict scripture and are very offensive like the idea of there being more than one gospel. I make no apologies for calling that out.

Yes I agree that Jesus spoke of His kingdom rule as in the heart. Glad you also see that it is for Israel and the gentiles and of a heavenly nature for that is Christ`s nature.

So, why can't you see that the disciples did not yet understand that when they asked him the question recorded in Acts 1:6? His response in verses 7 and 8 indicate what type of kingdom it actually is.

Yes, the Body of Christ was before Paul, however believers did not know what it was all about and how it functioned.

So what?

Christ the Head of the Body revealed the Body of Christ to Paul and what was the Lord`s purpose for it.

Yes. But, you keep talking as if the body of Christ didn't exist until Paul wrote about it. No, the blood of Christ is what brought all believers, Jew and Gentile, from all-time together into one body. I can't even fathom how any Christian could not understand this.

 

[Marilyn C]

It doesn't matter what they knew at the time. Is the truth dictated by what they knew before they received the Holy Spirit and gained further understanding? Of course not. The body of Christ is simply a reference to the church. To those who belong to Christ. How can you think the body of Christ didn't exist until Paul revealed it? He wasn't revealing something that came into existence at the moment he wrote about it. He was revealing something that wasn't previously made clear about what the blood of Christ accomplished, which is that it brought OT and NT saints, Jews and Gentiles, together as one body of Christ.

Are you actually reading what I post.

quote - Yes, the Body of Christ was before Paul, however believers did not know what it was all about and how it functioned. Christ the Head of the Body revealed the Body of Christ to Paul and what was the Lord`s purpose for it.

How can we discuss IF you don`t read correctly.

 

[David in NJ]

That is conjecture.

The `bride` purpose is revealed in the OT (Isa. 54: 5 & 5, Hosea 2: 19 & 20) and the book of Ruth reveals the purpose of the nearest kinsman, Christ.

The bride symbol in Revelation, the city was promised to the OT saints. (Heb. 11: 16)

conjecture or unbelief???

Wives, submit to your husbands as to the Lord. 23For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, His body, of which He is the Savior. 24Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything.

25Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave Himself up for her 26to sanctify her, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word, 27and to present her to Himself as a glorious church, without stain or wrinkle or any such blemish, but holy and blameless.

28In the same way, husbands ought to love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. 29Indeed, no one ever hated his own body, but he nourishes and cherishes it, just as Christ does the church. 30For we are members of His body.d

31“For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh.”e 32This mystery is profound, but I am speaking about Christ and the church. 33Nevertheless, each one of you also must love his wife as he loves himself, and the wife must respect her husband.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

God did not make an `oops` when He made the nation of Israel and promised them that they would rule over the nations of the world. The `nation` Jesus was referring to was when He would restore the kingdom rule to Israel, just as the 11 disciples were asking.

There are NO scriptures that say that the Body of Christ has replaced the nation of Israel.

Who is saying that the body of Christ has replaced the nation of Israel? What I see that you responded to was the passage where Jesus told unbelieving Jews like the scribes and Pharisees that the kingdom of God would be taken from them and given to a spiritual nation that bears fruit. That relates to what Paul wrote in Romans 11 about the Israelites who were blinded and cut off from the olive tree. Some might say that Gentile believers who were grafted in replaced the Israelite unbelievers who were cut off, but that's not really the case. The Gentile believers would have been grafted in even if there were no Israelite unbelievers that were cut off.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Are you actually reading what I post.

quote - Yes, the Body of Christ was before Paul, however believers did not know what it was all about and how it functioned. Christ the Head of the Body revealed the Body of Christ to Paul and what was the Lord`s purpose for it.

How can we discuss IF you don`t read correctly.

Marilyn, you have misrepresented what I posted MANY times, so you have no room to talk. Okay, so you understand that the body of Christ existed before Paul wrote about it. So, what is the point then when you talk about believers not knowing what it was all about yet until Paul explained it? What does that matter?

 

[rwb]

Not sure how I contradicted myself there. I quoted -

`Lord, will you at this time restore the kingdom to Israel?` (Acts 1: 6)

The disciples only knew of Israel`s restoration as written in the OT. Thus they were asking the `When` question.

What the disciples did not yet understand is HOW the Kingdom of God would be restored for them as well as Gentiles of faith with them. They were focused on having a physical Kingdom of God like what was in the days of King David. It had not yet been revealed to them through Christ's Spirit that the Kingdom of God that Christ ushered in would not be a physical Kingdom as it was before, because His Kingdom is NOT now of THIS world, and cannot be observed through physical sight, can only be known and entered when man is born again, because the Kingdom of God is within you.

John 18:36 (KJV) Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

Luke 17:20-21 (KJV) And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation: Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

John 3:3 (KJV) Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

John 3:5-8 (KJV) Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

Christ came with the Kingdom of God, but He was expected to come with a physical Kingdom of God that would be with great power. To prove He had come with the Kingdom of God that cannot be physically seen, and is within you, He cast out devils through the power of God.

Matthew 12:28 (KJV) But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you.

Premillennialists, like those of Old are still looking for Christ to come to this earth with the physical Kingdom of God.

 

[rwb]

Make a small but necessary correction and you have the WHOLE TRUTH

For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. 26And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written:

“The Deliverer will come out of Zion,
And He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob;
27For this is My covenant with them,
When I take away their sins.”
28Concerning the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but concerning the election they are beloved for the sake of the fathers. 29For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable. 30For as you were once disobedient to God, yet have now obtained mercy through their disobedience, 31even so these also have now been disobedient, that through the mercy shown you they also may obtain mercy. 32For God has committed them all to disobedience, that He might have mercy on all.

33Oh, the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are His judgments and His ways past finding out!

34“For who has known the mind of the Lord?
Or who has become His counselor?”
35“Or who has first given to Him
And it shall be repaid to him?”
36For of Him and through Him and to Him are all things, to whom be glory forever. Amen.

If your whole truth is suggesting "all Israel will be saved" are an ethnic people, then you have not come with the "WHOLE TRUTH"!

 

[rwb]

Good follow up.

Jesus said - `It is not for you to know the times and seasons which the Father has put in His won authority. But you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be witnesses to me in Jerusalem and in all Judea, and to the end of the earth.` (Acts 1: 7 & 8)

The times and seasons they did not know however Paul taught the Thessalonians that the Day of the LORD, (period of time) starts the `sudden destruction,` and that they are NOT in that time. That is new revelation from the head of the Body.

`But concerning the times and seasons you have no need that I should write to you for you yourselves know perfectly that the Day of the LORD so comes as a thief in the night.....But you, brethren are not in darkness that this Day should overtake you as a thief...` (1Thess. 5: 1, 2 & 4))

As to the 11 (& later 12) disciples they witnessed of Christ`s life, death and ascension. (Acts 1: 22) They witnessed to the people of Israel of Christ being Lord and Messiah. (Acts 2: 36)

And did you want to make a point?

Marilyn, that Day of the Lord time period you mention came when Christ came to earth a man. We are and have been living in this time since the first advent, and when the seventh trumpet sounds this period of time has come to an end, the day/time of the Lord ended there will not be another one thousand years of more time for the nation of Israel or any Gentile to be saved.

 

[David in NJ]

If your whole truth is suggesting "all Israel will be saved" are an ethnic people, then you have not come with the "WHOLE TRUTH"!

Believe the LORD???

O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those sent to her, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were unwilling! Look, your house is left to you desolate.
For I tell you that you will not see Me again until you say, ‘Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord.’”

Behold, a day of the LORD is coming when your plunder will be divided in your presence. 2For I will gather all the nations for battle against Jerusalem, and the city will be captured, the houses looted, and the women ravished. Half of the city will go into exile, but the rest of the people will not be removed from the city.

3Then the LORD will go out to fight against those nations, as He fights in the day of battle. 4On that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, east of Jerusalem, and the Mount of Olives will be split in two from east to west, forming a great valley, with half the mountain moving to the north and half to the south. 5You will flee by My mountain valley, for it will extend to Azal. You will flee as you fled from the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah. Then the LORD my God will come, and all the holy ones with Him.

I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers, so that you will not be conceited: A hardening in part has come to Israel, until the full number of the Gentiles has come in. 26And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written:

“The Deliverer will come from Zion;

He will remove godlessness from Jacob.

27And this is My covenant with them

when I take away their sins.”h

28Regarding the gospel, they are enemies on your account; but regarding election, they are loved on account of the patriarchs. 29For God’s gifts and His call are irrevocable.

30Just as you who formerly disobeyed God have now received mercy through their disobedience, 31so they too have now disobeyed, in order that they too may now receive mercy through the mercy shown to you.i 32For God has consigned everyone to disobedience so that He may have mercy on everyone.

 

[covenantee]

God did not make an `oops` when He made the nation of Israel and promised them that they would rule over the nations of the world. The `nation` Jesus was referring to was when He would restore the kingdom rule to Israel, just as the 11 disciples were asking.

There are NO scriptures that say that the Body of Christ has replaced the nation of Israel.

So your understanding of this verse is:
The kingdom of God shall be taken from Israel, and given to Israel...?

Who is the nation in 1 Peter 2:9?
What nation brings forth the fruits of the Kingdom of God? Matthew 21:43