How did the Trinity doctrine develop in the early church?

[rvmb]

I stand corrected, thank you, what I meant was most rendered it this way, but about 10 Bibles in English render in another way.

If you want to see them I can look them up?

Just the ones that claim John 1:1 The Word was a little >g< god :)

 

[Aunty Jane]

That's debatable.

Matthew 1:23 NIV
“The virgin will conceive and give birth to a son,
and they will call him Immanuel”[a] (which means “God with us”).

You misse the point StS….when Jesus and his Father need differentiating, God is always called “ho theos” but when he does not need distinguishing from the son he created, who is divine but not deity, Christendom resorts to obscure passages of Scripture to force a meaning into them that was never there.

How was God “with” his people in the days of Moses? Who was the mediator of the Old Covenant?
God has always been with his people by appointed representatives…..
“Immanuel“ means “God with us”….not “Immanuel is God”.

Isaiah 9:6 NIV
For to us a child is born,
to us a son is given,
and the government will be on his shoulders.
And he will be called
Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God,
Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

Yes the one coming was a “wonderful counsellor”…a “mighty God”, but not the Almighty one….only one is “Almighty”….”the Most High over all the earth” (Psalm 83:18)…he is also called “Everlasting Father” in the understanding of what kind of ”father” he is….according to the trinity, the son is not the Father…remember? So Jesus is a father in that he is the “life-giver” to all who qualify for his sacrifice. And he is “Prince of Peace”…who is a Prince but the son of a King?
Those who read a trinity into those words have no idea who Israel’s God is, was and always will be.

 

[Jack]

""The trinity didn’t exist then either""
Neither does the word Bible appear in the Bible
Please list the verses that teach The Father, The Word, The HS did not pre-exist creation.
ps, I don't align with a particular denomination.

From the CYB Statement of Faith: "We believe that God is the Creator, Sustainer, and Ruler of the universe. We attest that God has eternally existed in three persons: the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. These three are co-equal and are one God. (Genesis 1:1, 26-27, Genesis 3:22, Deuteronomy 6:4, Psalm 90:2, John 1:1, John 10:30, Romans 3:30, II Corinthians 13:14, I Peter 1:2)"

 

[Aunty Jane]

"And every single translation that renders John 1:1 that way is a product of trinitarian bias."""
I believe and accept that in some way or form The Father, The Son, The HS pre-existed creation
If you don't then simply list the verses that teach otherwise :)

I really don’t know why you insist that this is not my belief…I agree that the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit pre-exist everything….I just don’t see them as three parts of one god, because they act independently of each other. One can know what the other does not…one can pray to the other, they can be in three different places at the same time….so why does God call Jesus his son, and why does Jesus call Yahweh his Father if that is not their relationship. A father begets a son and must logically exist before him.
Even in heaven Jesus calls his Father “my God”. (Rev 3:12) That makes no sense at all.

 

[rvmb]

From the CYB Statement of Faith: "We believe that God is the Creator, Sustainer, and Ruler of the universe. We attest that God has eternally existed in three persons: the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. These three are co-equal and are one God. (Genesis 1:1, 26-27, Genesis 3:22, Deuteronomy 6:4, Psalm 90:2, John 1:1, John 10:30, Romans 3:30, II Corinthians 13:14, I Peter 1:2)"

Hi Jack, the verses do the talking :)

 

[rvmb]

I really don’t know why you insist that this is not my belief…I agree that the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit pre-exist everything….I just don’t see them as three parts of one god, because they act independently of each other. One can know what the other does not…one can pray to the other, they can be in three different places at the same time….so why does God call Jesus his son, and why does Jesus call Yahweh his Father if that is not their relationship. A father begets a son and must logically exist before him.
Even in heaven Jesus calls his Father “my God”. (Rev 3:12) That makes no sense at all.

""I agree that the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit pre-exist everything""
We're a rare pair, we both agree with what Scripture teaches :)

 

[Aunty Jane]

Just the ones that claim John 1:1 The Word was a little >g< god :)

If you look up “theos” in an Interlinear and see what it’s primary definition is….’Any god or goddess or divine personage’.
A divine person, or one who is authorized by God can be called a “god” (Little “g”) Angels are called “theos”….divine beings.
Even satan is called a ”god” (theos) at 2 Cor 4:4.

As God’s divine son, Jesus can also legitimately be called a “god” (little “g”)

 

[Aunty Jane]

""I agree that the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit pre-exist everything""
We're a rare pair, we both agree with what Scripture teaches :)

LOL…not rare at all….there are over 9 million of us.

 

[Jack]

I really don’t know why you insist that this is not my belief…I agree that the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit pre-exist everything….I just don’t see them as three parts of one god, because they act independently of each other. One can know what the other does not…one can pray to the other, they can be in three different places at the same time….so why does God call Jesus his son, and why does Jesus call Yahweh his Father if that is not their relationship. A father begets a son and must logically exist before him.
Even in heaven Jesus calls his Father “my God”. (Rev 3:12) That makes no sense at all.

Col 1 By Him all things were created!

Jesus is God.

 

[Jack]

If you look up “theos” in an Interlinear and see what it’s primary definition is….’Any god or goddess or divine personage’.
A divine person, or one who is authorized by God can be called a “god” (Little “g”) Angels are called “theos”….divine beings.
Even satan is called a ”god” (theos) at 2 Cor 4:4.

As God’s divine son, Jesus can also legitimately be called a “god” (little “g”)

Did the WatchTower convince you that you're a god too?

 

[rvmb]

If you look up “theos” in an Interlinear and see what it’s primary definition is….’Any god or goddess or divine personage’.
A divine person, or one who is authorized by God can be called a “god” (Little “g”) Angels are called “theos”….divine beings.
Even satan is called a ”god” (theos) at 2 Cor 4:4.

As God’s divine son, Jesus can also legitimately be called a “god” (little “g”)

The angels & satan are created beings.
Please list the verses that teach The Word was created.

 

[walter]

How can you include all these scriptures in your understanding?
Is it possible to take every word literally? In your opinion how do we know which words are literal and which words are figurative?

Psalm 37:20
But the wicked shall perish; And the enemies of the LORD, Like the splendor of the meadows, shall vanish. Into smoke they shall vanish away. New King James Version

Revelation 20:10
And the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur, into which the beast and the false prophet had already been thrown. There they will be tormented day and night forever and ever. Berean Standard Bible

Mark 9:43
If your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter into life maimed, rather than having two hands, to go to hell, into the fire that shall never be quenched
New King James Version

Mark 9:47
47 And if your eye causes you to sin, gouge it out. It’s better to enter the Kingdom of God with only one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into hell, 48 ‘where the maggots never die and the fire never goes out.’ New Living Translation

Matthew 7:13-14
“Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. 14 But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it. NIV

John 3:36
The one believing in the Son has eternal life, but the one not obeying the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him." Berean Literal Bible

Jesus words that refer to people not the devil and his angels:

Matthew 7:13 “Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. NIV

Matthew 25:46 “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.” NIV

Mark 9:43
If your hand causes you to stumble, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life maimed than with two hands to go into hell, where the fire never goes out.

John 3:36
Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God’s wrath remains on them.


Could it be that destruction also means eternal punishment and they "will not see life"?

 

[walter]

Yeah, unless there's very good reason. Jesus warned us several times about Hell Fire. He didn't make up horror stories.

Amen!

Amen!

Of course, NEVER!

That's right, BILLIONS of humans will burn in Hell forever!

You just proved Hell Fire is forever and ever as Jesus said.

We do have something in common I think, we both love Jesus and his Father and I feel that it is an important Bond even though we believe differently.

 

[walter]

If anyone loves Jesus and his Father I offer you these words:

We do have something in common, we both love Jesus and his Father and I feel that it is an important Bond even though we believe differently.

 

[TazzJazz]

The angels & satan are created beings.
Please list the verses that teach The Word was created.

Revelation 3:14, "the beginning of the creation by God."
Colossians 1:15,16 "the firstborn of all creation."

Just the ones that claim John 1:1 The Word was a little >g< god :)

Benjamin Wilson who was a trinitarian. In his 'Emphatic Diaglott', in the Interlinear part, it reads: "and a god was the Word."

In J. Moffatt's translation, John 1:1c reads:"the Logos was divine."

Another trinitarian, highly acclaimed Bible scholar John L. McKenzie, claimed John 1:1 didn't support the doctrine. In his
'Dictionary of the Bible', on p. 317, he wrote: "Jn 1:1 should rigorously be translated 'the word was with the God [ = the Father], and the word was a divine being.'" -- (Brackets are his. Bold type is mine.) (1965, NY)

Hope this helps!

 

[Jack]

We do have something in common I think, we both love Jesus and his Father and I feel that it is an important Bond even though we believe differently.

The same Jesus? My Jesus is God of the Bible. The Creator!

Lots of people believe in 'Jesus' but not THE Jesus. I.E. millions of JW's. Satan has stolen their Savior.

 

[walter]

The same Jesus? My Jesus is God of the Bible. The Creator!

Lots of people believe in 'Jesus' but not THE Jesus. I.E. millions of JW's. Satan has stolen their Savior.

Even if I was your enemy wouldn't you still love your neighbor and treat people like you want to be treated?

 

[Jack]

Even if I was your enemy wouldn't you still love your neighbor and treat people like you want to be treated?

I didn't say you're my enemy. I love all people. That's one reason I pull them out of the fire. Jesus is God of the Bible, the ONLY Savior.

Col 1 By Him all things were created.

 

[Jack]

Even if I was your enemy wouldn't you still love your neighbor and treat people like you want to be treated?

Do you warn them of the everlasting Hell Fire, as Jesus did? That's Biblical LOVE!

Jude 1:22-23
22 And on some have compassion, making a distinction;
23 but others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire,

 

[walter]

I didn't say you're my enemy. I love all people. That's one reason I pull them out of the fire. Jesus is God of the Bible, the ONLY Savior.

Col 1 By Him all things were created.

If people make insulting comments about each other's beliefs, is that showing Christian love for neighbor?

AI Overview
No, making insulting comments about others' beliefs is generally seen as contrary to Christian love for one's neighbor, which emphasizes kindness, respect, building up others, and loving enemies, even while disagreements exist; Romans 13:10 states love does no harm, and 1 Corinthians 13:2 says faith without love is nothing, with Christians called to love mercy, act justly, and walk humbly, not to attack. Instead, Christians are encouraged to pray for those who mistreat them, respond with grace, and focus on Jesus' call to love enemies and turn the other cheek.