Rapture ... soon?

[Ronald David Bruno]

Have you ever looked at the hell released at the trumpets.
You have a practically destroyed earth, millions killed refusing the mark, and In your doctrine you see believers running from cave to cave to escape the ac.

I created a hypothetical Great Tribulation period IF the POST-TRIB Rapture was true.
I guess you did not get that. I AM NOT A POST-TRIB adherent so I DO NOT BELIEVE THE CHURCH WILL GO THROUGH THE ENTIRE TRIBULATION. I am a Mid-Tribber/7th trumpet/Pre-
Wrath adherent to be more concise. BUT if the Post-trib scenario was true, that's what it would look like. Do the math.

There it is!!!!

You changed the setting.

Changing the bible for your doctrine????
No red flags? ????

Pure conjecture about how the trib is FOR THE GENTILE BRIDE.
WAY WAY OFF.
MADE UP BALONEY.

There what is? What setting am I changing? The setting is set in the Bible. When those demon locusts come out of the Bottomless Pit, they sting and torture those who have the mark of the Beast.
Read Rev. 9:1-11.
Now whether the Church is present or we have already been taken, it is clear there are some who did not take the mark of the Beast and they were spared. IF Rapture has already occurred before this event, those may be the ones left behind, on the fence about Jesus AND THE REMNANT JEWISH POPULATION, ISRAEL.( ROM. 11).
HOWEVER, if you think it's baloney, then just add some cheese, lettuce and tomato on rye and have some lunch.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

This is funny. Everyone in the Eschatology forum seems to have baloney detectors of their own, calibrated to their own views. The flags go up in every single post: " Oh no, you are wrong about this ... scripture says ... bla, bla bla." "The Rapture is before the Great Tribulation ... we are not appointed to wrath!" ... "No, it's after!" ... "Nope, in the middle!" ... "Baloney ... there is no such event as the rapture... nor is there a literal Millennial Kingdom coming! ... " "The Church is Israel" ... "The 144k were already chosen long ago!" ... and on and on it goes.
If any non-Christians were to examine this forum and see the utter disunity among our views, they might dis any validity to the gospel message.

 

[WPM]

This is funny. Everyone in the Eschatology forum seems to have baloney detectors of their own, calibrated to their own views. The flags go up in every single post: " Oh no, you are wrong about this ... scripture says ... bla, bla bla." "The Rapture is before the Great Tribulation ... we are not appointed to wrath!" ... "No, it's after!" ... "Nope, in the middle!" ... "Baloney ... there is no such event as the rapture... nor is there a literal Millennial Kingdom coming! ... " "The Church is Israel" ... "The 144k were already chosen long ago!" ... and on and on it goes.
If any non-Christians were to examine this forum and see the utter disunity among our views, they might dis any validity to the gospel message.

... and if there wasn't clowns on this forum making false predictions about the return of Christ.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

This is funny. Everyone in the Eschatology forum seems to have baloney detectors of their own, calibrated to their own views. The flags go up in every single post: " Oh no, you are wrong about this ... scripture says ... bla, bla bla." "The Rapture is before the Great Tribulation ... we are not appointed to wrath!" ... "No, it's after!" ... "Nope, in the middle!" ... "Baloney ... there is no such event as the rapture... nor is there a literal Millennial Kingdom coming! ... " "The Church is Israel" ... "The 144k were already chosen long ago!" ... and on and on it goes.
If any non-Christians were to examine this forum and see the utter disunity among our views, they might dis any validity to the gospel message.

We're not discussing the gospel here. If non-Christians read this forum (I doubt many, if any, do) and they jump to that conclusion that the gospel should be questioned because we disagree about Bible prophecy, they can't blame us for that. There is no reason to think that Christians are going to agree about everything written about in the Bible, especially related to prophecy and end times. That is not a requirement for unity amongst Christians. Serving and obeying Jesus Christ together as our personal Lord and Savior is what should unify us.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

... and if there wasn't clowns on this forum making false predictions about the return of Christ.

Yes, that kind of nonsense is what truly damages our reputation as Christians. I think non-Christians are smart enough to understand that there are certain fundamental things Christians should be expected to agree on without expecting us to agree on literally everything.

 

[Marilyn C]

Yes, we have talked about that before and we see that VERY differently. Scripture teaches unity amongst all believers in one body, so how could I possibly agree with you about this? You're contradicting many scriptures with your view. Peter said believers are looking for new heavens and a new earth in fulfillment of the promise of Christ's second coming (2 Peter 3:13), so why are you looking for anything else but that? I don't understand the way you look at scripture at all. I'm not sure if there is a single verse in all of scripture that we would agree on.

I do realize you probably have not heard of this view before. I was taught it by those who came out of the Welsh revival and those that followed. It probably is not well known in the USA.

So looking at scripture where do you believe the Body of Christ`s inheritance is?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I do realize you probably have not heard of this view before. I was taught it by those who came out of the Welsh revival and those that followed. It probably is not well known in the USA.

I have heard the view from you before multiple times. Did you somehow miss where I said "Yes, we have talked about that before"?

So looking at scripture where do you believe the Body of Christ`s inheritance is?

The new heavens and new earth, of course. That is obvious. Peter said that is what we, the body of Christ, should be looking for in fulfillment of the promise of Christ's second coming.

2 Peter 3:13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

I very much look forward to inheriting the new heavens and new earth where only righteousness will dwell and where there will be no more death, sorrow, crying or pain (Rev 21:4) and dwelling there with God and the rest of His people forever.

 

[Marilyn C]

I have heard the view from you before multiple times. Did you somehow miss where I said "Yes, we have talked about that before"?


The new heavens and new earth, of course. That is obvious. Peter said that is what we, the body of Christ, should be looking for in fulfillment of the promise of Christ's second coming.

2 Peter 3:13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

I very much look forward to inheriting the new heavens and new earth where only righteousness will dwell and where there will be no more death, sorrow, crying or pain (Rev 21:4) and dwelling there with God and the rest of His people forever.

However, you have not given a specific place in the NHNE? Can you do that from scripture?

 

[rebuilder 454]

This is funny. Everyone in the Eschatology forum seems to have baloney detectors of their own, calibrated to their own views. The flags go up in every single post: " Oh no, you are wrong about this ... scripture says ... bla, bla bla." "The Rapture is before the Great Tribulation ... we are not appointed to wrath!" ... "No, it's after!" ... "Nope, in the middle!" ... "Baloney ... there is no such event as the rapture... nor is there a literal Millennial Kingdom coming! ... " "The Church is Israel" ... "The 144k were already chosen long ago!" ... and on and on it goes.
If any non-Christians were to examine this forum and see the utter disunity among our views, they might dis any validity to the gospel message.

A gag order would be far worse.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

A gag order would be far worse.

That's coming. We see attacks on Christianity growing which are severe at times ( Charlie Kirk or people in Sudan getting decapitated); but many subtle forms of persecution too. But when the Antichrist reigns it will be equalivalent to the antisemitic hate growing.

 

[ewq1938]

But when the Antichrist reigns it will be equalivalent to the antisemitic hate growing.

What scripture supports that? Everything I see in Rev and the gospels OD show hatred to Christians not Jews of Judaism.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

What scripture supports that? Everything I see in Rev and the gospels OD show hatred to Christians not Jews of Judaism.

The Beast ( and Antichrist) gathers ten Islamic nations to attack Israel ( a northern confederacy headed by Iran with the support of Russia, notably in Ezekiel 38-39 (Gog and Magog), and Zechariah 12-14 - (armies against Jerusalem) ...
God intervenes ...
Christ returns in judgment, as detailed in Revelation

Lots of hate building towards the Jews and Christians.

 

[ewq1938]

The Beast ( and Antichrist) gathers ten Islamic nations to attack Israel ( a northern confederacy headed by Iran with the support of Russia, notably in Ezekiel 38-39 (Gog and Magog), and Zechariah 12-14 - (armies against Jerusalem) ...
God intervenes ...
Christ returns in judgment, as detailed in Revelation

Lots of hate building towards the Jews and Christians.

Well, the terms beast and AC are NT terms, and in the NT Jews are not targets only Christians are. Rather than attacking Israel, the two beasts of Rev inhabit Jerusalem just like Rome did in Christ's time. Only Christian would reject the beast and the mark, not anyone else no matter religion or non-religion so those of Judaism would be with the AC not targets or enemies of him.

Here is one gospel to show how Christians are persecuted in the GT not Judaism:

The Olivet Discourse (Mark):

Mar 13:3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives over against the temple, Peter and James and John and Andrew asked him privately,
Mar 13:4 Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign when all these things shall be fulfilled?
Mar 13:5 And Jesus answering them began to say, Take heed lest any man deceive you:

He is talking to his Christian disciples.

Mar 13:6 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

This is the false Christ that Christians are warned about.

Mar 13:7 And when ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars, be ye not troubled: for such things must needs be; but the end shall not be yet.
Mar 13:8 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be earthquakes in divers places, and there shall be famines and troubles: these are the beginnings of sorrows.
Mar 13:9 But take heed to yourselves: for they shall deliver you up to councils; and in the synagogues ye shall be beaten: and ye shall be brought before rulers and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them.

"for my sake" means the reason they are delivered to councils and beaten in Jewish synagogues is because they are Christians! This is not about Jewish persecution or punishment at all.

Mar 13:10 And the gospel must first be published among all nations.

That's the Christian gospel of Christ not a Jewish gospel.


Mar 13:11 But when they shall lead you, and deliver you up, take no thought beforehand what ye shall speak, neither do ye premeditate: but whatsoever shall be given you in that hour, that speak ye: for it is not ye that speak, but the Holy Ghost.

"you" here is still the same people he is talking about, Christians.

Mar 13:12 Now the brother shall betray the brother to death, and the father the son; and children shall rise up against their parents, and shall cause them to be put to death.
Mar 13:13 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Here it is again. Those that carry the name of Christ, Christians, will be the ones persecuted.


Mar 13:14 But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains:
Mar 13:15 And let him that is on the housetop not go down into the house, neither enter therein, to take any thing out of his house:
Mar 13:16 And let him that is in the field not turn back again for to take up his garment.
Mar 13:17 But woe to them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
Mar 13:18 And pray ye that your flight be not in the winter.
Mar 13:19 For in those days shall be affliction, such as was not from the beginning of the creation which God created unto this time, neither shall be.
Mar 13:20 And except that the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh should be saved: but for the elect's sake, whom he hath chosen, he hath shortened the days.

The elect here are the same people in the entire OD, Christians!


Mar 13:21 And then if any man shall say to you, Lo, here is Christ; or, lo, he is there; believe him not:

Again Christians are being warned about the false Christ.


Mar 13:22 For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.

Same Christian elect here as well.


Mar 13:23 But take ye heed: behold, I have foretold you all things.
Mar 13:24 But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,
Mar 13:25 And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.
Mar 13:26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.
Mar 13:27 And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.

And here is the second coming of the Christian Messiah and the rapturing/gathering.


Mar 13:28 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When her branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is near:
Mar 13:29 So ye in like manner, when ye shall see these things come to pass, know that it is nigh, even at the doors.
Mar 13:30 Verily I say unto you, that this generation shall not pass, till all these things be done.
Mar 13:31 Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.
Mar 13:32 But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.
Mar 13:33 Take ye heed, watch and pray: for ye know not when the time is.
Mar 13:34 For the Son of man is as a man taking a far journey, who left his house, and gave authority to his servants, and to every man his work, and commanded the porter to watch.
Mar 13:35 Watch ye therefore: for ye know not when the master of the house cometh, at even, or at midnight, or at the cockcrowing, or in the morning:
Mar 13:36 Lest coming suddenly he find you sleeping.
Mar 13:37 And what I say unto you I say unto all, Watch.

Never once does the subject change from Christian persecution to anything about the Jews being targeted for persecution or punishment. Christians are the body of Christ, are the Church of Christ, and are the bride of Christ, targeted by the enemy during the Great Tribulation of Christian persecution.

The OD is fully and completely about Christian persecution and AD70 was only about the Jews rebelling against the Roman's and being defeated.


In the GT Christians will be beaten in Jewish synagogues simply because Christians are the ones being persecuted not the Jews.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

In the GT Christians will be beaten in Jewish synagogues simply because Christians are the ones being persecuted not the Jews.

Wow, that's a far-fetched, misinterpretation of scripture. First time I've ever heard of that one. You can't discern the signs, what's going on right now. In our generation there have been continuous attacks, proxy wars against Israel. Iran has been the head of the snake. Israel has been surrounded by nations who have warred against since 1948. We crippled Iran's nuclear sites, but they are not finished. Wait a few years, you'll see fireworks.
No need to continue. We have different views, and they are incompatible.

 

[ewq1938]

Wow, that's a far-fetched, misinterpretation of scripture. First time I've ever heard of that one.

It's pure scripture, no interpretation needed. Read it again:

Mar 13:7 And when ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars, be ye not troubled: for such things must needs be; but the end shall not be yet.
Mar 13:8 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be earthquakes in divers places, and there shall be famines and troubles: these are the beginnings of sorrows.
Mar 13:9 But take heed to yourselves: for they shall deliver you up to councils; and in the synagogues ye shall be beaten: and ye shall be brought before rulers and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

It's pure scripture, no interpretation needed. Read it again:

Mar 13:7 And when ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars, be ye not troubled: for such things must needs be; but the end shall not be yet.
Mar 13:8 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be earthquakes in divers places, and there shall be famines and troubles: these are the beginnings of sorrows.
Mar 13:9 But take heed to yourselves: for they shall deliver you up to councils; and in the synagogues ye shall be beaten: and ye shall be brought before rulers and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them.

Why not consider the context. This is an answer to a 3-part question. Jesus was first explaining to the disciples earlier that one stone would not be left on another - referring the destruction of the Temple in 70AD. Then He jumps to the second part, His second coming (almost 2000 years later), outlines the events surrounding that time..Then goes back ( as a Hebrew style of telling a story is structured ( like Gen. 1&2), introductory outline, then go back and fill in the details.

"So when you see the ‘abomination of desolation,’ (in 70 AD)spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not” (let the reader understand), “then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains ..."
This is a message to the Jews in Judea ( not Christians throughout the world).

>>Do you live anywhere near Judea?<<

Another passage describing the same scene and a message to the Jews is in Matt. 24:20, And pray that your flight may not be in winter or on the Sabbath"
>>Synagogue ... Judea ... Sabbath
... HELLO!
His return will be to Jerusalem. ISRAEL and the surrounding countries attacking it will be on fire to the point that smoke will block out the sun and moon. (1/3 of the planet on fire -see Rev. 8:7, 12)) This is the setting when He returns: "the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light;" vs. 24

Scholars recognize Biblical events in history center around Jerusalem. Pay attention to what is going on their!.

 

[ewq1938]

This is a message to the Jews in Judea ( not Christians throughout the world).

Jews don't read the bible, not care or even know what Jesus said. Jesus was talking to and about Christians. They are persecuted in the GT, not Jews of Judaism.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

Jews don't read the bible, not care or even know what Jesus said. Jesus was talking to and about Christians. They are persecuted in the GT, not Jews of Judaism.

Your spiritual discernment is skewed. Try reading Romans 11. During the GT, a remnant 1/3 Jewish population will be saved, become Christians as did a remnant during His first visit. Take into account the 144k, specifically identified as being from the 12 tribes, male virgins, who prior to this time have been assigned to evangelize along with the two witnesses. God is not done with the Jews yet. If you think He is, likely you are anti-semitic. I wonder are you currently rallying for or against the Jews today?
Bless them and be blessed
... but curse and you will he cursed. Watch out.
And btw,
Matthew's gospel is clearly written for a Jewish Christian audience living within the immediate proximity of the homeland itself. Matthew's is the most Jewish of all the gospels.

MATTHEW opens with a geneology, pointing the Jews to their Messiah based on their history. Throughout their nation, Jewish Christians continued to meet on the Sabbath, but also met on the Lords day, more popular for the Gentiles.

 

[marks]

There what is? What setting am I changing? The setting is set in the Bible. When those demon locusts come out of the Bottomless Pit, they sting and torture those who have the mark of the Beast.

Revelation 9:4 KJV
And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.

Revelation 7:3-4 KJV
3) Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.
4) And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.

Are not the 144,000 the only ones immune from the locust stings

Much love!

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

However, you have not given a specific place in the NHNE? Can you do that from scripture?

The entire NHNE. Is there anything in 2 Peter 3:13 to lead you to believe that Peter said we should be looking for only a specific place in the NHNE to inherit?