How did the Trinity doctrine develop in the early church?

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

walter

Well-Known Member
Feb 24, 2024
362
262
63
67
Arizona
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I think we all agree on Scriptures first
I also agree on Scriptures first and foremost, because the Apostle Paul warns us to reject any new teaching that is not the original gospel that we gave you in the beginning.

Galatians 1:8
But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let them be under God’s curse! NIV
 
  • Love
Reactions: The Learner

walter

Well-Known Member
Feb 24, 2024
362
262
63
67
Arizona
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
What are all the definitions of destroyed?
I favor the words of Jesus. The entire Bible does not explain, that someone destroyed is still alive in some way, but it does explain who gets life and who does not.

Matthew 7:13-14
“Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. 14 But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it. New International Version

Proverbs 29:1
He that being often reproved hardeneth his neck Shall suddenly be destroyed, and that without remedy. American Standard Version

Proverbs 6:15
But they will be destroyed suddenly, broken in an instant beyond all hope of healing. New Living Translation
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: The Learner

TazzJazz

Active Member
Jun 16, 2025
133
132
43
34
Canton
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Yet Paul teaches that believers covered by his Christ given ministry go to :-
Eph 2:6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
Yes, Paul was one of those chosen; one of Christ's brothers.
Would you please read Jesus' words at Matthew 25:31-46? Notice there are 3 different groups mentioned: the goats, the sheep, and His (Jesus') brothers (vs.40). No doubt Jesus' brothers are sheeplike, ie., they follow Him, but Jesus said this group of sheep are not His brothers. Rather, they do good things to/for His brothers.

More on this, later.

(@Aunty Jane, or @walter , it may be a while before I can get back to this, so please feel free to continue this without me. The three of us all have the same spiritual understanding/training. We "speak in agreement".)
 
  • Love
Reactions: The Learner

rvmb

Well-Known Member
Jul 3, 2025
1,252
330
83
Adelaide
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
Gender
Male
Yes, Paul was one of those chosen; one of Christ's brothers.
Would you please read Jesus' words at Matthew 25:31-46? Notice there are 3 different groups mentioned: the goats, the sheep, and His (Jesus') brothers (vs.40). No doubt Jesus' brothers are sheeplike, ie., they follow Him, but Jesus said this group of sheep are not His brothers. Rather, they do good things to/for His brothers.

More on this, later.

(@Aunty Jane, or @walter , it may be a while before I can get back to this, so please feel free to continue this without me. The three of us all have the same spiritual understanding/training. We "speak in agreement".)
 

rvmb

Well-Known Member
Jul 3, 2025
1,252
330
83
Adelaide
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
Gender
Male
Yes, Paul was one of those chosen; one of Christ's brothers.
Would you please read Jesus' words at Matthew 25:31-46? Notice there are 3 different groups mentioned: the goats, the sheep, and His (Jesus') brothers (vs.40). No doubt Jesus' brothers are sheeplike, ie., they follow Him, but Jesus said this group of sheep are not His brothers. Rather, they do good things to/for His brothers.

More on this, later.

(@Aunty Jane, or @walter , it may be a while before I can get back to this, so please feel free to continue this without me. The three of us all have the same spiritual understanding/training. We "speak in agreement".)
"Would you please read Jesus' words at Matthew 25:31-46?""
Like Acts 9:10-15, Acts 15:6-25, Gal 2:7-9, Rom 11:13, Rom 15:16 can you please show where Matthew (after Paul was commissioned by Christ) was given the same UNIQUE role (Apostle AND Minster to the Gentiles) as Paul to teach Salvation to (Gal3:28, 1 Cor 12:!3, Col 3:11) - believers today ?
Just the verses first please TJ so we can establish the basics :)
 

Grailhunter

Well-Known Member
Jun 19, 2019
14,204
6,181
113
69
FARMINGTON
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Gender
Male

Yeah he don't have a leg to stand on. Very few beliefs have over a hundred scripture to prove them wrong while nearly as many to prove there are 3 Gods. Hocus pocus theology. Yahweh is real and Yeshua is real and the Holy Spirit is real. And Yeshua sits on a throne to the right of His Father. And His Father did not begot Himself. False beliefs are very powerful. 50 My Father scriptures or My Father in Heaven who is greater than I.
 

The Learner

Well-Known Member
Aug 21, 2022
4,833
1,453
113
69
Brighton
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Yeah he don't have a leg to stand on. Very few beliefs have over a hundred scripture to prove them wrong while nearly as many to prove there are 3 Gods. Hocus pocus theology. Yahweh is real and Yeshua is real and the Holy Spirit is real. And Yeshua sits on a throne to the right of His Father. And His Father did not begot Himself. False beliefs are very powerful. 50 My Father scriptures or My Father in Heaven who is greater than I.
How many times do you need to be told we down't belive in 3 Gods?
 

Grailhunter

Well-Known Member
Jun 19, 2019
14,204
6,181
113
69
FARMINGTON
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Gender
Male
How many times do you need to be told we down't belive in 3 Gods?

LOL belief is a wonderful thing.....but if it is a religion it should be based on facts. The scriptures overwhelming shows that there are 3 Gods.
Again....
The McKenzie Bible Dictionary explains it this way.... “The Trinity of God is defined by the Church as the belief that in God there are three persons who subsist in one nature. The belief as so defined was reached only in the 4th and 5th centuries AD and hence is not explicitly or formally a biblical belief.” Which hold true to the fact that the word Trinity does not occur in the Holy Bible.

If you are into fantasy I recommend Santa Claus or Lord of the Rings, more entertaining.
 

Grailhunter

Well-Known Member
Jun 19, 2019
14,204
6,181
113
69
FARMINGTON
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Around the 4th century the Roman Catholic Church came up with the 3 in 1 formula for the Trinity. It was the first church to come up with this belief. But the term Trinity had been around pretty much since the 2nd century but it did not include the 3 in 1 belief.
Around the 19th century the Jehovah's Witnesses came up with the beliefs that Yeshua was not a God and Hell does not exist.
Both are very serious false beliefs with one big difference.....What the Jehovah's Witnesses believe will send them to Hell. Thank Heaven that is not true of those that believe in the 3 in 1 formula for the Trinity and good thing because a lot of people believe in it. But still false beliefs can cause bad things. The 3 in 1 belief corrupts the meaning of hundreds of scriptures because it changes the meaning of scriptures in their minds so it does not do them and good to read the scriptures because they cannot understand them.

Any time Yeshua says My Father this belief twists the meaning. When Yeshua says the Father is greater than I this belief changes the meaning. God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son and this belief changes the meaning. When Yeshua says He does not do His will but the will of His father this belief changes the meaning. When Yahweh said....This is My Son of whom I am well pleased and this belief changes the meaning. When Yeshua prayed to Yahweh in the garden this belief changes the meaning. When Yeshua says that His Father loves Him this belief changes the meaning. When Yeshua says that Yahweh is His God this belief changes the meaning.....and the list goes on.

Beware of false beliefs....Seek the Truth.

The Johnny Appleseed of Truth.
Be good and do good.
 
Last edited:
  • Love
Reactions: The Learner

The Learner

Well-Known Member
Aug 21, 2022
4,833
1,453
113
69
Brighton
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Around the 4th century the Roman Catholic Church came up with the 3 in 1 formula for the Trinity. It was the first church to come up with this belief. But the term Trinity had been around pretty much since the 2nd century but it did not include the 3 in 1 belief.
Around the 19th century the Jehovah's Witnesses came up with the beliefs that Yeshua was not a God and Hell does not exist.
Both are very serious false beliefs with one big difference.....What the Jehovah's Witnesses believe will send them to Hell. Thank Heaven that is not true of those that believe in the 3 in 1 formula for the Trinity and good thing because a lot of people believe in it. But still false beliefs can cause bad things. The 3 in 1 belief corrupts the meaning of hundreds of scriptures because it changes the meaning of scriptures in their minds so it does not do them and good to read the scriptures because they cannot understand them.

Any time Yeshua says My Father this belief twists the meaning. When Yeshua says the Father is greater than I this belief changes the meaning. God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son and this belief changes the meaning. When Yeshua says He does not do His will but the will of His father this belief changes the meaning. When Yahweh said....This is My Son of whom I am well pleased and this belief changes the meaning. When Yeshua prayed to Yahweh in the garden this belief changes the meaning. When Yeshua says that Yahweh is His God this belief changes the meaning.....and the list goes on.

Beware of false beliefs....Seek the Truth.

The Johnny Appleseed of Truth.
Be good and do good.
Charles Russal leaned those teachings from leaders of the Christain Connextion with in SDAism. Mrs White's Husband was one of those ministers as was Uriah Smith an editor of the Review and Herald.
“The Christian Connexion way of thinking,” wrote George Knight, “became extremely important in early Seventh-day Adventism because two of its three founders had belonged to the Connexion—James White and Joseph Bates.”6 Ellen White’s family,
 
  • Like
Reactions: Grailhunter

The Learner

Well-Known Member
Aug 21, 2022
4,833
1,453
113
69
Brighton
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Bates, Joseph was also CC.
Ellen White’s family, while they were Millerites, attended the Casco Street Christian (Connexion) Church for a time while living in Portland, Maine. Ellen White’s understanding of the great controversy theme comes out of a Restorationist framework, and it is probable, that her understanding of conditionalism and annihilationism came from the Christian Connexion influence... https://encyclopedia.adventist.org/article?id=994E

James White and the Christian Connection

When the Advent movement arose in the 1830s, it found a ready acceptance among Methodists, “Christians,” and Freewill Baptists. With their emphasis on obeying the Bible message, along with their free style and openness to the leading of the Spirit, they readily listened to the Advent message. Not surprisingly, Adventist worship tended to reflect the more dynamic style of these churches.1EGWLM 920.3

The account by James White of a Christian Connection conference in 1843 is a typical example. The Ellen G. White Letters and Manuscripts: Volume 1
 
  • Like
Reactions: Grailhunter

Berserk

Well-Known Member
Apr 13, 2019
885
650
93
78
Colville
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Gender
Male
the word "trinity" does not occur in the Bible. The earaliest reference to "trinity" is found in Theophilus of Antioch (c. 179 AD) and His undersstanding of the trinity is "God, God's Word, and God's Wisdom!" Note the abssence of "the Holy Spirit."
 

St. SteVen

Well-Known Member
Feb 5, 2023
18,269
6,823
113
71
Minneapolis
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
the word "trinity" does not occur in the Bible. The earaliest reference to "trinity" is found in Theophilus of Antioch (c. 179 AD) and His undersstanding of the trinity is "God, God's Word, and God's Wisdom!" Note the abssence of "the Holy Spirit."
It seems that the Trinity was identified at the baptism of Jesus.
As you say, the word Trinity was not used, but certainly the persons of the godhead were clearly identified.
 

Aunty Jane

Well-Known Member
Sep 16, 2021
8,936
5,047
113
Sydney
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
Gender
Female
"Would you please read Jesus' words at Matthew 25:31-46?""
Till Jazz gets back....can we all read this passage together? I’ll break it up and explain as we go.....

“When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit on his glorious throne. Before him will be gathered all the nations, and he will separate people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. And he will place the sheep on his right, but the goats on the left.”

This is the separation of two categories of people found on earth at the time of Christ’s return. The separation is made by comparing their deeds towards Christ’s true disciples....and each has an destiny that is irreversible.

“Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me, I was naked and you clothed me, I was sick and you visited me, I was in prison and you came to me.’ Then the righteous will answer him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you drink? And when did we see you a stranger and welcome you, or naked and clothe you? And when did we see you sick or in prison and visit you?’ And the King will answer them, ‘Truly, I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of these my brothers, you did it to me.’”

So this first group are those who did good deeds towards Christ’s “brothers”....so we need to identify the two groups...Christ’s “brothers” and those who do good deeds towards them....sometimes they don’t even know that they are doing so according to their response. So it’s a trait in these ones to be good to their neighbors as a matter of doing what is natural for a Christian disciple....but to Christ’s brothers especially.
Jesus said that those doing acts or deeds of kindness to the least of those who were his “brothers”, they did it to him.
These are ones God counts worthy to become citizens of his incoming Kingdom. Kind, loving, unselfish people who love God and his Christ and show it by the way they live their lives.

But what about the other group?

“Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.”

This is not a destiny anyone would sign up for on purpose....the “eternal fire” of “Gehenna”, is reserved for the devil and his angels, but the “goats” are not the first ones sent to this destination.....Jesus condemned the Pharisees to this place of eternal death. (Matt 23:33) So Gehenna is not Christendom’s “hell”, but the opposite of everlasting life. A place of no return, (“the second death”) unlike “hades” which releases its dead. (Rev 20:13-14)
What do the goats fail to do?

“For I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink, I was a stranger and you did not welcome me, naked and you did not clothe me, sick and in prison and you did not visit me.’ Then they also will answer, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to you?’ Then he will answer them, saying, ‘Truly, I say to you, as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me.’ And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.” (ESV)

These are not the sort of people who express human kindness to their fellow man...it’s not in their nature to care about anyone but themselves, let alone seeking to do good to Christ’s “brothers”.
These are not the ones God wants in his Kingdom....they are neither “meek” nor “teachable” as Jesus said his disciples would be.

Is there anything you disagree with so far? Is this a fair assessment of that passage?

rvmb said:
Like Acts 9:10-15, Acts 15:6-25, Gal 2:7-9, Rom 11:13, Rom 15:16 can you please show where Matthew (after Paul was commissioned by Christ) was given the same UNIQUE role (Apostle AND Minster to the Gentiles) as Paul to teach Salvation to (Gal3:28, 1 Cor 12:!3, Col 3:11) - believers today ?

Acts 9:10-15 is the conversion of Saul...chosen by Christ to represent him especially to the nations. He was an educated man, up to the task of addressing both Jewish leaders (as a former Pharisee) and to the learned Greek philosophers who would not have accepted humble uneducated fishermen to teach them anything.

Acts 15:6-25 is the circumcision issue where certain Jews wanted to impose the law on gentiles. They sent to the apostles and older men in Jerusalem to sort out the issue.

Gal 2:7-9 Paul is appointed as an apostle to the nations, as Rom 11:13 says....and given the power of Holy Spirit just as the other apostles were for the Jews that they were sent to. Yet it was Peter who was sent to the first Gentile convert to Christianity....Cornelius and his household who received the Holy Spirit before their baptism...that is how Peter knew why God had given him that vision of the unclean animals he was told to “slaughter and eat”. God had opened the way for the gentiles to come to him through Christ.

Rom 15:16 shows that it was God’s time to include the gentiles as his promise to Abraham had stated....”all the nations” would be blessed by this seed who would be a descendant of Abraham.

I am not sure what you are asking here...about believers today? Both Jews and Gentiles continued to be added to the Christian congregations due to the preaching work that Christ commanded. (Matt 28:19-20; Matt 24:14)

The roles were only unique for a time.....the Jews were offered a place in God’s kingdom first, but as a nation they rejected their Messiah. God then chose a new nation...one Paul called “the Israel of God” (Gal 6:16) which was made up of both Jewish and Gentile Christians......there was no longer a unique appeal to Jews and non-Jews...all were to be given the same witness. The two became one body.

Just the verses first please TJ so we can establish the basics :)
Over to you....
 

rvmb

Well-Known Member
Jul 3, 2025
1,252
330
83
Adelaide
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
Gender
Male
Till Jazz gets back....can we all read this passage together? I’ll break it up and explain as we go.....

“When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit on his glorious throne. Before him will be gathered all the nations, and he will separate people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. And he will place the sheep on his right, but the goats on the left.”

This is the separation of two categories of people found on earth at the time of Christ’s return. The separation is made by comparing their deeds towards Christ’s true disciples....and each has an destiny that is irreversible.

“Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me, I was naked and you clothed me, I was sick and you visited me, I was in prison and you came to me.’ Then the righteous will answer him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you drink? And when did we see you a stranger and welcome you, or naked and clothe you? And when did we see you sick or in prison and visit you?’ And the King will answer them, ‘Truly, I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of these my brothers, you did it to me.’”

So this first group are those who did good deeds towards Christ’s “brothers”....so we need to identify the two groups...Christ’s “brothers” and those who do good deeds towards them....sometimes they don’t even know that they are doing so according to their response. So it’s a trait in these ones to be good to their neighbors as a matter of doing what is natural for a Christian disciple....but to Christ’s brothers especially.
Jesus said that those doing acts or deeds of kindness to the least of those who were his “brothers”, they did it to him.
These are ones God counts worthy to become citizens of his incoming Kingdom. Kind, loving, unselfish people who love God and his Christ and show it by the way they live their lives.

But what about the other group?

“Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.”

This is not a destiny anyone would sign up for on purpose....the “eternal fire” of “Gehenna”, is reserved for the devil and his angels, but the “goats” are not the first ones sent to this destination.....Jesus condemned the Pharisees to this place of eternal death. (Matt 23:33) So Gehenna is not Christendom’s “hell”, but the opposite of everlasting life. A place of no return, (“the second death”) unlike “hades” which releases its dead. (Rev 20:13-14)
What do the goats fail to do?

“For I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink, I was a stranger and you did not welcome me, naked and you did not clothe me, sick and in prison and you did not visit me.’ Then they also will answer, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to you?’ Then he will answer them, saying, ‘Truly, I say to you, as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me.’ And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.” (ESV)

These are not the sort of people who express human kindness to their fellow man...it’s not in their nature to care about anyone but themselves, let alone seeking to do good to Christ’s “brothers”.
These are not the ones God wants in his Kingdom....they are neither “meek” nor “teachable” as Jesus said his disciples would be.

Is there anything you disagree with so far? Is this a fair assessment of that passage?



Acts 9:10-15 is the conversion of Saul...chosen by Christ to represent him especially to the nations. He was an educated man, up to the task of addressing both Jewish leaders (as a former Pharisee) and to the learned Greek philosophers who would not have accepted humble uneducated fishermen to teach them anything.

Acts 15:6-25 is the circumcision issue where certain Jews wanted to impose the law on gentiles. They sent to the apostles and older men in Jerusalem to sort out the issue.

Gal 2:7-9 Paul is appointed as an apostle to the nations, as Rom 11:13 says....and given the power of Holy Spirit just as the other apostles were for the Jews that they were sent to. Yet it was Peter who was sent to the first Gentile convert to Christianity....Cornelius and his household who received the Holy Spirit before their baptism...that is how Peter knew why God had given him that vision of the unclean animals he was told to “slaughter and eat”. God had opened the way for the gentiles to come to him through Christ.

Rom 15:16 shows that it was God’s time to include the gentiles as his promise to Abraham had stated....”all the nations” would be blessed by this seed who would be a descendant of Abraham.

I am not sure what you are asking here...about believers today? Both Jews and Gentiles continued to be added to the Christian congregations due to the preaching work that Christ commanded. (Matt 28:19-20; Matt 24:14)

The roles were only unique for a time.....the Jews were offered a place in God’s kingdom first, but as a nation they rejected their Messiah. God then chose a new nation...one Paul called “the Israel of God” (Gal 6:16) which was made up of both Jewish and Gentile Christians......there was no longer a unique appeal to Jews and non-Jews...all were to be given the same witness. The two became one body.


Over to you....
I am not sure what you are asking here...about believers today?
Scripture teaches who they are >> Gal 3:28, 1 Cor 12:13, Col 3:11
Whose Ministry are they under ? Rom 11:13, Rom 15:16.
What is the Gospel taught by that Ministry ? Eph 1:13, 1 Cor 15:1-4.
Plain, simple & easy to understand :)
 
  • Like
Reactions: The Learner

Jack

Well-Known Member
May 3, 2022
15,801
5,941
113
Midwest
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Jesus said: eternal fire and eternal punishment / will not see life / wide road to destruction. Thank you for the conversation, I wish we could agree on something. :ntmetu
Jesus said "they will be tormented day and night FOREVER".

I'll believe Him.
Mark 4:12 that seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest haply they should turn again, and it should be forgiven them. American Standard Version

Is it possible that all Jesus words are true? The fire is eternal, the punishment is eternal, they will not see life, they are destroyed.
I hope you don't get a glimpse of the furnace of fire, dead ahead!

Matthew 13:49-50
49 So it will be at the end of the age. The angels will come forth, separate the wicked from among the just,
50 and cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth."
 
Last edited:
  • Love
Reactions: The Learner