If Christianity is true
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David in NJ
Well-Known Member
I’m a Jewish monotheist who believes Jesus of Nazareth is the Messiah, Son of the living God. That’s my choice and I’m not changing it.
I’ll reiterate now that the purpose of this thread is stated in post #7.
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
Aunty Jane
Well-Known Member
For goodness sake...put down your weapon.....and listen for a change....you are so focussed on being “right” that your ego won’t let you open your ears.....therefore your heart remains closed as well.
Let me address your accusations....for the benefit of any who may read these exchanges.....
Colossians 1:15-17 ESV...
“He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. For by him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things were created through him and for him. And he is before all things, and in him all things hold together. And he is the head of the body, the church. He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in everything he might be preeminent.”
How can a human be the image of one who is invisible? Think about that....Christ in the flesh can only be a reflection of his Father’s qualities....that is what an image is...a reflection...a representation.
“By him all things were created” and that includes “all things in heaven and on earth”....the entirety of all that exists came from the hand of the son, and yet there is a qualifier...”all things were created through him and for him”....the words “through” and “for” add a dimension that you and other trinitarians ignore.
The Word “through”...”διά diá, dee-ah'; a primary preposition denoting the channel of an act.” (Strongs)
This is agency....and we all know what an agent is....someone who represents and acts on behalf of someone else...in this case, the Son is acting on behalf of the Father.
And how is creation made “for” the son? It is his Father’s gift to him.....a team effort....a joint project.....Father and son are the “us” and “our” in Genesis 1:26. The Holy Spirit is the awesome power of God providing all that was needed to bring creation into existence...in heaven and on earth.
Then it goes further to say....”He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead”.
The prehuman Jesus was “the beginning”....God is an Eternal Being who had no “beginning”...which is reinforced by a statement by Jesus himself when giving the Revelation to the angel who delivered it to John...
“And to the angel of the church in Laodicea write: ‘The words of the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of God's creation.”
Jesus is the Amen and the faithful and true witness for all that his Father did and said....he is “the beginning of God’s creation”.
And the last sentence in that passage reveals something else.....”he is the head of the body”...what “body” is this? The “body of Christ” is his elect...the ones chosen to rule with him in his Kingdom. (Rev 20:6)
As “the firstborn from the dead”, he is not the first human to be resurrected, but the first human to be raised to life “in the spirit”, opening the way for others to join him there...where he went to “prepare a place” for them in his Father’s house.
When Jesus said concerning the Temple that it would be destroyed and that he would raise it up in three days, how does that tie in with other Scripture? Paul explains.....
“Do you not know that you are God's temple and that God's Spirit dwells in you? If anyone destroys God's temple, God will destroy him. For God's temple is holy, and you are that temple.” (1 Cor 3:16-17 ESV)
The physical Temple would be destroyed, but the spiritual one would remain...and Jesus was the “chief cornerstone” of that spiritual Temple....this is what he would raise up after his resurrection....those of his elect who could now follow him there at the appointed time. He is the one who resurrects all the dead. (John 5:28-29) Some will be raised to heaven to become kings and priests, (the 144,000) whereas the majority of mankind will have their lives restored on earth where God created them to live forever in paradise conditions.
The big picture fills in the blanks....Jesus came to give us back what Adam stole from us. The ransom he provided was a set price....a sinless life for a sinless life....the very reason why Jesus had to be born 100% human. God is an immortal who cannot die...so Jesus cannot be immortal, or else he did not die the same death as Adam. It’s why he was called “the last Adam”...he paid for what the first Adam did to his children.
This is what the Bible says......not just what the “Watchtower” says....
Let me address your accusations....for the benefit of any who may read these exchanges.....
The Bible says that creation came “through” the son, not “from” him.
Colossians 1:15-17 ESV...
“He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. For by him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things were created through him and for him. And he is before all things, and in him all things hold together. And he is the head of the body, the church. He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in everything he might be preeminent.”
How can a human be the image of one who is invisible? Think about that....Christ in the flesh can only be a reflection of his Father’s qualities....that is what an image is...a reflection...a representation.
“By him all things were created” and that includes “all things in heaven and on earth”....the entirety of all that exists came from the hand of the son, and yet there is a qualifier...”all things were created through him and for him”....the words “through” and “for” add a dimension that you and other trinitarians ignore.
The Word “through”...”διά diá, dee-ah'; a primary preposition denoting the channel of an act.” (Strongs)
This is agency....and we all know what an agent is....someone who represents and acts on behalf of someone else...in this case, the Son is acting on behalf of the Father.
And how is creation made “for” the son? It is his Father’s gift to him.....a team effort....a joint project.....Father and son are the “us” and “our” in Genesis 1:26. The Holy Spirit is the awesome power of God providing all that was needed to bring creation into existence...in heaven and on earth.
Then it goes further to say....”He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead”.
The prehuman Jesus was “the beginning”....God is an Eternal Being who had no “beginning”...which is reinforced by a statement by Jesus himself when giving the Revelation to the angel who delivered it to John...
“And to the angel of the church in Laodicea write: ‘The words of the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of God's creation.”
Jesus is the Amen and the faithful and true witness for all that his Father did and said....he is “the beginning of God’s creation”.
And the last sentence in that passage reveals something else.....”he is the head of the body”...what “body” is this? The “body of Christ” is his elect...the ones chosen to rule with him in his Kingdom. (Rev 20:6)
As “the firstborn from the dead”, he is not the first human to be resurrected, but the first human to be raised to life “in the spirit”, opening the way for others to join him there...where he went to “prepare a place” for them in his Father’s house.
When Jesus said concerning the Temple that it would be destroyed and that he would raise it up in three days, how does that tie in with other Scripture? Paul explains.....
“Do you not know that you are God's temple and that God's Spirit dwells in you? If anyone destroys God's temple, God will destroy him. For God's temple is holy, and you are that temple.” (1 Cor 3:16-17 ESV)
The physical Temple would be destroyed, but the spiritual one would remain...and Jesus was the “chief cornerstone” of that spiritual Temple....this is what he would raise up after his resurrection....those of his elect who could now follow him there at the appointed time. He is the one who resurrects all the dead. (John 5:28-29) Some will be raised to heaven to become kings and priests, (the 144,000) whereas the majority of mankind will have their lives restored on earth where God created them to live forever in paradise conditions.
The big picture fills in the blanks....Jesus came to give us back what Adam stole from us. The ransom he provided was a set price....a sinless life for a sinless life....the very reason why Jesus had to be born 100% human. God is an immortal who cannot die...so Jesus cannot be immortal, or else he did not die the same death as Adam. It’s why he was called “the last Adam”...he paid for what the first Adam did to his children.
This is what the Bible says......not just what the “Watchtower” says....
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
Aunty Jane
Well-Known Member
That’s the second time you’ve said that....it’s not really a response....
Address the post, not the poster....give a qualified response David.....supply Scripture that argues with the Scriptures I have posted....
I am all ears...
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
i did address the Post = UH-OH
the poster is = Aunty
When you combine Post with poster = UH-OH Aunty
KAPISH
Aunty Jane
Well-Known Member
Seriously? This is a response to what I posted? Try again. Use Scripture...that would be helpful.
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
Well it is a very serious start to your missing out of the very scriptures you quoted.
Maybe review what you wrote and after dinner here i will respond - thank you
Aunty Jane
Well-Known Member
I will await your response with anticipation....but be careful of translation...it is the work of men.
Scripture does not contradict itself. If you post a contradiction, I will show you the error in translation.
This is why research is a valuable tool.
Disputes between members who are registered as “Christian” should take place in the “Christians Only“ forums". Non-Christians may be entertained by “Christians” tearing one another apart but few of them will find it to be a good reason to become Christian.
”Christian” members are doing real damage to the Messiah’s cause.
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David in NJ
Well-Known Member
Moses was a man = Yes
AGREE about translations = must be careful
Work of men who do not know the Living God = NWT = John 1:1 "...........the Word was a god"
The devil is having a field day in this thread, readers. Unbelievers are being turned away from the Messiah by “Christians”.
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
ELOHIM is always glorified when CHRIST is glorified with the FATHER = John 17:1-5 & John 16:12-15
When Jesus had spoken these things, He lifted up His eyes to heaven and said, “Father, the hour has come. Glorify Your Son, that Your Son may glorify You. For You granted Him authority over all people, so that He may give eternal life to all those You have given Him. Now this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom You have sent.
I have glorified You on earth by accomplishing the work You gave Me to do.
And now, Father, glorify Me in Your presence with the glory I had with You before the world existed.
I still have many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now. However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come. He will glorify Me, for He will take of what is Mine and declare it to you. All things that the Father has are Mine. Therefore I said that He will take of Mine and declare it to you.
Never back down from bullies = satan is a liar and a bully but Stand strong in the WORD that was GOD
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God
and the Word became flesh and we beheld His Glory
When Jesus had spoken these things, He lifted up His eyes to heaven and said, “Father, the hour has come. Glorify Your Son, that Your Son may glorify You. For You granted Him authority over all people, so that He may give eternal life to all those You have given Him. Now this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom You have sent.
I have glorified You on earth by accomplishing the work You gave Me to do.
And now, Father, glorify Me in Your presence with the glory I had with You before the world existed.
I still have many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now. However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come. He will glorify Me, for He will take of what is Mine and declare it to you. All things that the Father has are Mine. Therefore I said that He will take of Mine and declare it to you.
Never back down from bullies = satan is a liar and a bully but Stand strong in the WORD that was GOD
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God
and the Word became flesh and we beheld His Glory
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
Quick reminder for everyone, lest we forget = 1 John 4:20
If someone says, “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother whom he has seen,
how can he love God whom he has not seen?
If someone says, “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother whom he has seen,
how can he love God whom he has not seen?
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