What Does the Bible Really Teach About Jesus and his Relationship with his Father ?

[Aunty Jane]

This was a response from another thread that was being shut down at the poster’s request, but I wanted to respond in a forum that accepts “unorthodox” views to show how the Bible describes our Lord Jesus and his relationship with his superior Father.

AGREE about translations = must be careful

Work of men who do not know the Living God = NWT = John 1:1 "...........the Word was a god"

Is this a mistranslation? What does this verse say in Greek?

Look up “theos” in an Interlinear or concordance.....we have been through this before....”theos” doesn’t just mean YHWH...Yahweh/Jehovah.
Another way to translate John 1:1 accurately would be to identifyYahweh in that verse and then to identify who the other “theos” is.
It should read....
“In the beginning was the Word, (ho logos) and the Word was with Yahweh (ho theos) and the Word was divine (theos)”.

The way this verse is translated in most Bibles, is not saying what many think it is.......but is in disagreement with Paul’s Statement when speaking collectively for all the apostles....
1 Cor 8:5-6 ESV...he said....
“For although there may be so-called gods in heaven or on earth—as indeed there are many “gods” and many “lords”— yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist.”

Scripture explains Scripture. It also explains what Thomas said in identifying his Lord Jesus as “theos”....
The Bible describes holy ones like angels, and even the judges in Israel (whom Yahweh himself called “gods”) as “theos”. (John 10:31-36)

As the saying goes, David.... “a little knowledge is a dangerous thing”.
Studying “theology” is vastly different from studying the Bible....you must understand the difference.

ELOHIM is always glorified when CHRIST is glorified with the FATHER = John 17:1-5 & John 16:12-15

When Jesus had spoken these things, He lifted up His eyes to heaven and said, “Father, the hour has come. Glorify Your Son, that Your Son may glorify You. For You granted Him authority over all people, so that He may give eternal life to all those You have given Him. Now this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom You have sent.
I have glorified You on earth by accomplishing the work You gave Me to do.
And now, Father, glorify Me in Your presence with the glory I had with You before the world existed.

I still have many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now. However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come. He will glorify Me, for He will take of what is Mine and declare it to you. All things that the Father has are Mine. Therefore I said that He will take of Mine and declare it to you.”

(Underlining mine for reference)
I love it when Scripture is misinterpreted because then you can show the readers here what the Bible really says as opposed to what the church insists that it says....

Let’s unpack what it really says....

Jesus prayed....to his Father who was in heaven, whilst he was still on the earth. (One wonders how a single god can talk to his equal self, whilst he is far removed from his actual presence) Can one god be in two or three places at the same time and talk to one another?....have different opinions.....and know things the others don’t?
Sounds most illogical, especially when there is no direct statement that the three are one God.

If Jesus is equally “God” with his Father, why is it necessary for the Father to glorify his son, and to “grant” him “authority over all people”.....God already has authority over all people.

“so that He may give eternal life to all those You have given Him.”
Why did the Father need to “give” his son (his equal self) the ability to give eternal life to those who followed him?
If he was God, he could do that himself.

“Now this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom You have sent.”
So knowing God AND the one he sent is vital for eternal life.....why don’t we equally have to “know” the Holy Spirit? “He” is not mentioned.....why? And if the God we “know” (have been led to believe) is not the true God...What then?

“I have glorified You on earth by accomplishing the work You gave Me to do.”
Whose work was Jesus doing? He was on assignment, but who sent him? Who gave him his assignment so that the apostles could call Jesus “God’s holy servant”? (Acts 4:27, 30)....is this calling him “God”?

“And now, Father, glorify Me in Your presence with the glory I had with You before the world existed.”
This is a request for something to be reinstated.....a glory that the Son had “with” his Father “before the world existed”....a time when he existed before everything else.
At Col 1:15, Paul calls Jesus “the firstborn of all creation”...and Rev 3:14 Jesus calls himself, “the beginning of God’s creation”.
These are clear statements, not suggestions. They just don’t fit with this widely accepted but unproven church doctrine....yet there cannot be a contradiction. God’s word does not lie.

Never back down from bullies = satan is a liar and a bully but Stand strong in the WORD that was GOD

In the beginning was the Word, (ho logos) and the Word (homlogis) was with God, (ho theos) and the Word was God (theos)
and the Word (ho logos) became flesh and we beheld His Glory

Words in brackets added by me for simplification.....
It was the Word (ho logos) who became flesh, not God (ho theos) The Greek makes clear what the flawed English translation does not.....theological bias at work...unless you study the Greek with an Interlinear, you will never see it.

Quick reminder for everyone, lest we forget = 1 John 4:20

If someone says, “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother whom he has seen,
how can he love God whom he has not seen?

Wow!...how do you think that applies here? Who is our Christian “brother”? One who believes a different truth to what we do? Paul argues with you.....

“I appeal to you, brothers, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree, and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be united in the same mind and the same judgment. . . . What I mean is that each one of you says, “I follow Paul,” or “I follow Apollos,” or “I follow Cephas,” or “I follow Christ.” Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul? (1 Cor 1:10-13 ESV)

And if you argue with me, and hold views that I cannot find in Scripture because I have studied the Bible carefully (apart from church theology), then we cannot be “brethren”....so, whose ideas do you subscribe to David? Whose “brand” of theology do you accept?...and why?

We are separating ourselves in this “time of the end” when Christ is due to appear as the judge of all of us.....and only two categories exist...”sheep” and “goats”....so we are all in either one or the other....
By what we accept as truth, we are judged accordingly. What trait are “goats” notorious for? I have goats, so I see this first hand.....stubborn!....with no concept that they might be standing in your way....you have to push them or they won’t move. Think about that.....

 

[David in NJ]

This was a response from another thread that was being shut down at the poster’s request, but I wanted to respond in a forum that accepts “unorthodox” views to show how the Bible describes our Lord Jesus and his relationship with his superior Father.


Is this a mistranslation? What does this verse say in Greek?

Look up “theos” in an Interlinear or concordance.....we have been through this before....”theos” doesn’t just mean YHWH...Yahweh/Jehovah.
Another way to translate John 1:1 accurately would be to identifyYahweh in that verse and then to identify who the other “theos” is.
It should read....
“In the beginning was the Word, (ho logos) and the Word was with Yahweh (ho theos) and the Word was divine (theos)”.

The way this verse is translated in most Bibles, is not saying what many think it is.......but is in disagreement with Paul’s Statement when speaking collectively for all the apostles....
1 Cor 8:5-6 ESV...he said....
“For although there may be so-called gods in heaven or on earth—as indeed there are many “gods” and many “lords”— yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist.”

Scripture explains Scripture. It also explains what Thomas said in identifying his Lord Jesus as “theos”....
The Bible describes holy ones like angels, and even the judges in Israel (whom Yahweh himself called “gods”) as “theos”. (John 10:31-36)

As the saying goes, David.... “a little knowledge is a dangerous thing”.
Studying “theology” is vastly different from studying the Bible....you must understand the difference.

(Underlining mine for reference)
I love it when Scripture is misinterpreted because then you can show the readers here what the Bible really says as opposed to what the church insists that it says....

Let’s unpack what it really says....

Jesus prayed....to his Father who was in heaven, whilst he was still on the earth. (One wonders how a single god can talk to his equal self, whilst he is far removed from his actual presence) Can one god be in two or three places at the same time and talk to one another?....have different opinions.....and know things the others don’t?
Sounds most illogical, especially when there is no direct statement that the three are one God.

If Jesus is equally “God” with his Father, why is it necessary for the Father to glorify his son, and to “grant” him “authority over all people”.....God already has authority over all people.

“so that He may give eternal life to all those You have given Him.”
Why did the Father need to “give” his son (his equal self) the ability to give eternal life to those who followed him?
If he was God, he could do that himself.

“Now this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom You have sent.”
So knowing God AND the one he sent is vital for eternal life.....why don’t we equally have to “know” the Holy Spirit? “He” is not mentioned.....why? And if the God we “know” (have been led to believe) is not the true God...What then?

“I have glorified You on earth by accomplishing the work You gave Me to do.”
Whose work was Jesus doing? He was on assignment, but who sent him? Who gave him his assignment so that the apostles could call Jesus “God’s holy servant”? (Acts 4:27, 30)....is this calling him “God”?

“And now, Father, glorify Me in Your presence with the glory I had with You before the world existed.”
This is a request for something to be reinstated.....a glory that the Son had “with” his Father “before the world existed”....a time when he existed before everything else.
At Col 1:15, Paul calls Jesus “the firstborn of all creation”...and Rev 3:14 Jesus calls himself, “the beginning of God’s creation”.
These are clear statements, not suggestions. They just don’t fit with this widely accepted but unproven church doctrine....yet there cannot be a contradiction. God’s word does not lie.


Words in brackets added by me for simplification.....
It was the Word (ho logos) who became flesh, not God (ho theos) The Greek makes clear what the flawed English translation does not.....theological bias at work...unless you study the Greek with an Interlinear, you will never see it.

Wow!...how do you think that applies here? Who is our Christian “brother”? One who believes a different truth to what we do? Paul argues with you.....

“I appeal to you, brothers, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree, and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be united in the same mind and the same judgment. . . . What I mean is that each one of you says, “I follow Paul,” or “I follow Apollos,” or “I follow Cephas,” or “I follow Christ.” Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul? (1 Cor 1:10-13 ESV)

And if you argue with me, and hold views that I cannot find in Scripture because I have studied the Bible carefully (apart from church theology), then we cannot be “brethren”....so, whose ideas do you subscribe to David? Whose “brand” of theology do you accept?...and why?

We are separating ourselves in this “time of the end” when Christ is due to appear as the judge of all of us.....and only two categories exist...”sheep” and “goats”....so we are all in either one or the other....
By what we accept as truth, we are judged accordingly. What trait are “goats” notorious for? I have goats, so I see this first hand.....stubborn!....with no concept that they might be standing in your way....you have to push them or they won’t move. Think about that.....

UH-OH Aunty = you did it again!

 

[Aunty Jane]

UH-OH Aunty = you did it again!

Not a reply David....I answered your scripture with scripture.....we can’t both be right.

 

[David in NJ]

This was a response from another thread that was being shut down at the poster’s request, but I wanted to respond in a forum that accepts “unorthodox” views to show how the Bible describes our Lord Jesus and his relationship with his superior Father.

" please close my thread before any further damage is done."

Hateful words towards CHRIST from the thread that was shut down.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Therefore whoever confesses Me before men, him I will also confess before My Father who is in heaven.
33But whoever denies Me before men, him I will also deny before My Father who is in heaven.

Do not think that I came to bring peace on earth. I did not come to bring peace but a sword. 35For I have come to ‘set[j] a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law’; 36and ‘a man’s enemies will be those of his own household.’ 37He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me. And he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me. 38And he who does not take his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me. 39He who finds his life will lose it, and he who loses his life for My sake will find it.

He who receives you receives Me, and he who receives Me receives Him who sent Me. 41He who receives a prophet in the name of a prophet shall receive a prophet’s reward. And he who receives a righteous man in the name of a righteous man shall receive a righteous man’s reward. 42And whoever gives one of these little ones only a cup of cold water in the name of a disciple, assuredly, I say to you, he shall by no means lose his reward.”

 

[David in NJ]

Not a reply David....I answered your scripture with scripture.....we can’t both be right.

You missed the TRUTH and i do not squirm away from "translations" when the whole of Scripture Speaks of CHRIST

The TRUTH of GOD is CHRIST

CHRIST/the LAMB, is Standing in the CENTER of the THRONE of His FATHER

No one is permitted there but the FATHER, the LAMB/CHRIST and the HOLY SPIRIT

If even Michael the Arch-Angel were to even attempt to enter the THRONE, he would be cast out FOREVER, never to return​

 

[Aunty Jane]

I’ll be back to address these later....

 

[Aunty Jane]

Hateful words towards CHRIST from the thread that was shut down.

Not hateful at all....just a recognition that there is only one truth, and that the majority do not hold it, which is proven by Jesus himself when he said....

“Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it. For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it.” (Matt 7:13-14 NASB)

Jesus indicated that the majority are going to be found on the wrong road.....and that only “few” will even find the “small gate” that leads to the “narrow” road to life.

If the gate is small, it means that those who have a lot of baggage will not get through it, so perhaps they need to offload before entry is gained....and the road is “narrow” because there in no room to wander off on either side.....there is just one narrow path of truth, not a wide road accommodating everyone who wears a “Christian” label, but those who want to fit everyone on that broad road, are not going in the right direction.
What does this result in on judgment day? Jesus tells them....

“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven . Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?’ And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; .” (Matt 7:21-23 NASB)

Imagine receiving that rejection! The majority will. They will make their excuses, but Jesus will not accept them. We need to make sure that we are not among them....to check out every belief and not accept anything just because the majority believes it...

Therefore whoever confesses Me before men, him I will also confess before My Father who is in heaven.
33But whoever denies Me before men, him I will also deny before My Father who is in heaven.

When you quote Scripture, make sure you know what is said...to whom it is said and what it means in context.
This passage is addressed to Jesus’ apostles, just after he had chosen them.
So what was it that his new disciples had to confess? That Jesus was who he said he was....”the Son of God”. At no time did he ever say that he was God...only that he was God’s Son. (John 10:31-36)

Those who did not accept him, but denied that his works were from God, would also be denying the Father who sent him, and the Holy Spirit that enabled him to do what no other man could do.

After praising John B for his fine work, Jesus said
“But the testimony which I have is greater than John; for the works which the Father has given Me to accomplish—the very works that I do—testify about Me, that the Father has sent Me. And the Father who sent Me, He has testified of Me. You have neither heard His voice at any time nor seen His form. You do not have His word abiding in you, for you do not believe Him whom He sent.” (John 5:36-38 NASB)

Do not think that I came to bring peace on earth. I did not come to bring peace but a sword. 35For I have come to ‘set[j] a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law’; 36and ‘a man’s enemies will be those of his own household.’ 37He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me. And he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me. 38And he who does not take his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me. 39He who finds his life will lose it, and he who loses his life for My sake will find it.

Why do you suppose Jesus came to cause division? Who was he dividing and why?
Why a “sword” but not “Peace”?
It was decision time for the Jewish people...their Messiah had arrived and because he didn’t fit the pre-conceived notions of the Pharisees, they refused to accept him and swayed the majority of the people over to their point of view......put yourself in their place, because we are now also in a period of judgment...it’s decision time for Christians now to make up their mind who their God really is? Is Christendom’s god the real one?

The devil has sown a bumper crop of “weeds” (imitation Christians) into the world, as Jesus said he would, so it’s up to us to track down the “wheat” and join them in worship. Only the “wheat”will be left standing after the harvest is over.

He who receives you receives Me, and he who receives Me receives Him who sent Me. 41He who receives a prophet in the name of a prophet shall receive a prophet’s reward. And he who receives a righteous man in the name of a righteous man shall receive a righteous man’s reward. 42And whoever gives one of these little ones only a cup of cold water in the name of a disciple, assuredly, I say to you, he shall by no means lose his reward.”

In that climate, what do you think Jesus meant? There were the ones who flocked to hear Jesus and to see his miracles, but there were others who accused him of breaking God’s law and performing his miracles with the power of the devil.

Who were the people to believe? To whom was Jesus “sent”? He was not sent to the Jewish leaders, but to the “lost sheep”....how did those sheep get lost? The Pharisees neglected them, so that when they wandered off, no one went looking for them. Remember Jesus parables often involves lost sheep and lambs? The shepherd left the 99 to find one lost one. Every sheep was precious.

Those were the ones he was sent to....the “lost” ones.....not the ones who stuck to the teachings of the Pharisees.....they had no idea that they were lost and Jesus ministry had no impact on them. They were the ones howling for Jesus execution before Pilate, cursing themselves and their children with his blood. (Matt 27:25) How confident they were that Jesus was a fraud...! Who told them he was? Why did those people believe them? Why do people believe differently today?

How do people know the truth when they hear it?
We are not left to guess....Jesus knows those who are searching for the truth, and his Father “draws” them to the teachings of his son. (John 6:44) No one can come to Jesus without an invitation from his Father. (John 6:65) That’s it....end of story.
Jesus said, “seek and you will find”...you can’t do that if you’re not seeking.

Are we not in the same situation today only on a larger scale? If the majority are again on the wrong road, who are the “few” who have found the truth? They are the ones who obey Jesus and live their Christianity every day, 24/7.
They are no part of the world (John 18:36)....they have no blood on their hands (Isa 1:15).....they have no false religious teachings that originate in paganism (2 Cor 6:14-18) ....and they are intensely disliked because they appear to be heretics! (John 15:18-21) Does that describe you?

 

[David in NJ]

Not hateful at all....just a recognition that there is only one truth, and that the majority do not hold it, which is proven by Jesus himself when he said....

“Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it. For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it.” (Matt 7:13-14 NASB)

Jesus indicated that the majority are going to be found on the wrong road.....and that only “few” will even find the “small gate” that leads to the “narrow” road to life.

If the gate is small, it means that those who have a lot of baggage will not get through it, so perhaps they need to offload before entry is gained....and the road is “narrow” because there in no room to wander off on either side.....there is just one narrow path of truth, not a wide road accommodating everyone who wears a “Christian” label, but those who want to fit everyone on that broad road, are not going in the right direction.
What does this result in on judgment day? Jesus tells them....

“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven . Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?’ And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; .” (Matt 7:21-23 NASB)

Imagine receiving that rejection! The majority will. They will make their excuses, but Jesus will not accept them. We need to make sure that we are not among them....to check out every belief and not accept anything just because the majority believes it...

When you quote Scripture, make sure you know what is said...to whom it is said and what it means in context.
This passage is addressed to Jesus’ apostles, just after he had chosen them.
So what was it that his new disciples had to confess? That Jesus was who he said he was....”the Son of God”. At no time did he ever say that he was God...only that he was God’s Son. (John 10:31-36)

Those who did not accept him, but denied that his works were from God, would also be denying the Father who sent him, and the Holy Spirit that enabled him to do what no other man could do.

After praising John B for his fine work, Jesus said
“But the testimony which I have is greater than John; for the works which the Father has given Me to accomplish—the very works that I do—testify about Me, that the Father has sent Me. And the Father who sent Me, He has testified of Me. You have neither heard His voice at any time nor seen His form. You do not have His word abiding in you, for you do not believe Him whom He sent.” (John 5:36-38 NASB)


Why do you suppose Jesus came to cause division? Who was he dividing and why?
Why a “sword” but not “Peace”?
It was decision time for the Jewish people...their Messiah had arrived and because he didn’t fit the pre-conceived notions of the Pharisees, they refused to accept him and swayed the majority of the people over to their point of view......put yourself in their place, because we are now also in a period of judgment...it’s decision time for Christians now to make up their mind who their God really is? Is Christendom’s god the real one?

The devil has sown a bumper crop of “weeds” (imitation Christians) into the world, as Jesus said he would, so it’s up to us to track down the “wheat” and join them in worship. Only the “wheat”will be left standing after the harvest is over.

In that climate, what do you think Jesus meant? There were the ones who flocked to hear Jesus and to see his miracles, but there were others who accused him of breaking God’s law and performing his miracles with the power of the devil.

Who were the people to believe? To whom was Jesus “sent”? He was not sent to the Jewish leaders, but to the “lost sheep”....how did those sheep get lost? The Pharisees neglected them, so that when they wandered off, no one went looking for them. Remember Jesus parables often involves lost sheep and lambs? The shepherd left the 99 to find one lost one. Every sheep was precious.

Those were the ones he was sent to....the “lost” ones.....not the ones who stuck to the teachings of the Pharisees.....they had no idea that they were lost and Jesus ministry had no impact on them. They were the ones howling for Jesus execution before Pilate, cursing themselves and their children with his blood. (Matt 27:25) How confident they were that Jesus was a fraud...! Who told them he was? Why did those people believe them? Why do people believe differently today?

How do people know the truth when they hear it?
We are not left to guess....Jesus knows those who are searching for the truth, and his Father “draws” them to the teachings of his son. (John 6:44) No one can come to Jesus without an invitation from his Father. (John 6:65) That’s it....end of story.
Jesus said, “seek and you will find”...you can’t do that if you’re not seeking.

Are we not in the same situation today only on a larger scale? If the majority are again on the wrong road, who are the “few” who have found the truth? They are the ones who obey Jesus and live their Christianity every day, 24/7.
They are no part of the world (John 18:36)....they have no blood on their hands (Isa 1:15).....they have no false religious teachings that originate in paganism (2 Cor 6:14-18) ....and they are intensely disliked because they appear to be heretics! (John 15:18-21) Does that describe you?

When a person attacks the Word of God = it is done thru unbelief and hate.

The One Truth is why that hate filled individual requested the to be shut down.

You missed the ONE TRUTH and i do not squirm away from "translations" when the whole of Scripture Speaks of CHRIST

The TRUTH of GOD is CHRIST

CHRIST/the LAMB, is Standing in the CENTER of the THRONE of His FATHER

No one is permitted there but the FATHER, the LAMB/CHRIST and the HOLY SPIRIT

If even Michael the Arch-Angel were to even attempt to enter the THRONE, he would be cast out FOREVER, never to return​

 

[David in NJ]

@Lizbeth @Nancy @ScottA @Ronald David Bruno @rvmb

Why On Earth Would Anyone Trust NASA?

https://nonorthodoxy.com/2021/07/01/outer-space-is-fake-stars-are-in-the-firmament/ Why On Earth Would Anyone Trust NASA? In this short 12-minute Reese Report, I lay out the main reasons that I think you shouldn’t. The Apollo moon missions were what triggered my so-called red pill moment back in...

www.bitchute.com

 

[rebuilder 454]

@auntie.
You claimed falsely that Jesus is not the creator.
How does the watchtower cult deal with this verse.

Colossians 1:16
For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

You erroneously deny it as do your leaders.

 

[Nancy]

@Lizbeth @Nancy @ScottA @Ronald David Bruno @rvmb

Why On Earth Would Anyone Trust NASA?

https://nonorthodoxy.com/2021/07/01/outer-space-is-fake-stars-are-in-the-firmament/ Why On Earth Would Anyone Trust NASA? In this short 12-minute Reese Report, I lay out the main reasons that I think you shouldn’t. The Apollo moon missions were what triggered my so-called red pill moment back in...

www.bitchute.com

Hi David, I do not trust the government at all. They have been lead by the greedy nose by the biggest deceiver there is, Satan.
I also remember another video many years ago showing these guys "on the moon"...they were joking around and floating in the air right above the "moons surface". Funny thing, one of them dropped a big hammer and it simply fell on the ground, no bouncing up and down like the guys! The government has truly dumbed down the nation. SMH

 

[JesusFan]

This was a response from another thread that was being shut down at the poster’s request, but I wanted to respond in a forum that accepts “unorthodox” views to show how the Bible describes our Lord Jesus and his relationship with his superior Father.


Is this a mistranslation? What does this verse say in Greek?

Look up “theos” in an Interlinear or concordance.....we have been through this before....”theos” doesn’t just mean YHWH...Yahweh/Jehovah.
Another way to translate John 1:1 accurately would be to identifyYahweh in that verse and then to identify who the other “theos” is.
It should read....
“In the beginning was the Word, (ho logos) and the Word was with Yahweh (ho theos) and the Word was divine (theos)”.

The way this verse is translated in most Bibles, is not saying what many think it is.......but is in disagreement with Paul’s Statement when speaking collectively for all the apostles....
1 Cor 8:5-6 ESV...he said....
“For although there may be so-called gods in heaven or on earth—as indeed there are many “gods” and many “lords”— yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist.”

Scripture explains Scripture. It also explains what Thomas said in identifying his Lord Jesus as “theos”....
The Bible describes holy ones like angels, and even the judges in Israel (whom Yahweh himself called “gods”) as “theos”. (John 10:31-36)

As the saying goes, David.... “a little knowledge is a dangerous thing”.
Studying “theology” is vastly different from studying the Bible....you must understand the difference.

(Underlining mine for reference)
I love it when Scripture is misinterpreted because then you can show the readers here what the Bible really says as opposed to what the church insists that it says....

Let’s unpack what it really says....

Jesus prayed....to his Father who was in heaven, whilst he was still on the earth. (One wonders how a single god can talk to his equal self, whilst he is far removed from his actual presence) Can one god be in two or three places at the same time and talk to one another?....have different opinions.....and know things the others don’t?
Sounds most illogical, especially when there is no direct statement that the three are one God.

If Jesus is equally “God” with his Father, why is it necessary for the Father to glorify his son, and to “grant” him “authority over all people”.....God already has authority over all people.

“so that He may give eternal life to all those You have given Him.”
Why did the Father need to “give” his son (his equal self) the ability to give eternal life to those who followed him?
If he was God, he could do that himself.

“Now this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom You have sent.”
So knowing God AND the one he sent is vital for eternal life.....why don’t we equally have to “know” the Holy Spirit? “He” is not mentioned.....why? And if the God we “know” (have been led to believe) is not the true God...What then?

“I have glorified You on earth by accomplishing the work You gave Me to do.”
Whose work was Jesus doing? He was on assignment, but who sent him? Who gave him his assignment so that the apostles could call Jesus “God’s holy servant”? (Acts 4:27, 30)....is this calling him “God”?

“And now, Father, glorify Me in Your presence with the glory I had with You before the world existed.”
This is a request for something to be reinstated.....a glory that the Son had “with” his Father “before the world existed”....a time when he existed before everything else.
At Col 1:15, Paul calls Jesus “the firstborn of all creation”...and Rev 3:14 Jesus calls himself, “the beginning of God’s creation”.
These are clear statements, not suggestions. They just don’t fit with this widely accepted but unproven church doctrine....yet there cannot be a contradiction. God’s word does not lie.


Words in brackets added by me for simplification.....
It was the Word (ho logos) who became flesh, not God (ho theos) The Greek makes clear what the flawed English translation does not.....theological bias at work...unless you study the Greek with an Interlinear, you will never see it.

Wow!...how do you think that applies here? Who is our Christian “brother”? One who believes a different truth to what we do? Paul argues with you.....

“I appeal to you, brothers, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree, and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be united in the same mind and the same judgment. . . . What I mean is that each one of you says, “I follow Paul,” or “I follow Apollos,” or “I follow Cephas,” or “I follow Christ.” Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul? (1 Cor 1:10-13 ESV)

And if you argue with me, and hold views that I cannot find in Scripture because I have studied the Bible carefully (apart from church theology), then we cannot be “brethren”....so, whose ideas do you subscribe to David? Whose “brand” of theology do you accept?...and why?

We are separating ourselves in this “time of the end” when Christ is due to appear as the judge of all of us.....and only two categories exist...”sheep” and “goats”....so we are all in either one or the other....
By what we accept as truth, we are judged accordingly. What trait are “goats” notorious for? I have goats, so I see this first hand.....stubborn!....with no concept that they might be standing in your way....you have to push them or they won’t move. Think about that.....

using your own Kingdom Greek interlinear, in John 20"28 the Greek text in that interlinear states that Thomas stated that Jesus was the God the Lord of me

 

[JesusFan]

Not a reply David....I answered your scripture with scripture.....we can’t both be right.

Jesus was and is God in human flesh, as per the Bible

 

[David in NJ]

Hi David, I do not trust the government at all. They have been lead by the greedy nose by the biggest deceiver there is, Satan.
I also remember another video many years ago showing these guys "on the moon"...they were joking around and floating in the air right above the "moons surface". Funny thing, one of them dropped a big hammer and it simply fell on the ground, no bouncing up and down like the guys! The government has truly dumbed down the nation. SMH

AMEN

This is where you and i are because of His Mercy = 1 John 5:19

"We know that we are of God and that the whole world is under the control of the evil one."

@TLHKAJ @Psalm-147:3

 

[David in NJ]

Would you like to read in a good concordance what the word “theos” (god) means?

According to Strongs, the primary definition of “theos” is...

1. “a god or goddess, a general name of deities or divinities.”

So calling anyone “theos” is not calling them God with a capital “G”.
In Greek Jehovah was addressed as “ho theos”, because the Greek gods all had names, but the God of the Jews was at that time nameless. For an invalid reason the Jewish leaders had forbidden the people to utter the divine name out loud...substituting the title “Adonai” (Lord) instead. To distinguish this nameless God in writing they used the term “ho theos” meaning “THE God” of the Jews.

And since the Greek has no upper or lower case letters, the capitalisation of the word translated “god” is misleading...put there by trinitarian translators.

Human judges in Israel were called “gods” by Jehovah himself....(John 10:31-36)
Satan is called “theos” in 2 Cor 4:4....angels are also called “theos” because the word can refer to God, or to any divine personage, or to those divinely appointed to a certain role.

Thomas was not calling Jesus, “Jehovah”.....because the apostles as a collective clearly stated who was their God in 1 Cor 8:5-6....
“For even though there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth, just as there are many “gods” and many “lords,” 6  there is actually to us one God, the Father, from whom all things are and we for him; and there is one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things are and we through him.”

Jesus was their “Lord” (“kyrios” meaning...”he to whom a person or thing belongs, about which he has power of deciding; master, lord ) so.....not their God.


No Scripture says so, unless you can provide a direct statement from either Jehovah or his son that this is true. Twisting Scripture to suggest it is not the same as a direct statement....no doctrine can be based on suggestion...it has to be established fact.....the trinity is not Scriptural.

I can give you many reasons why Jesus cannot be God...one being in the same chapter of John 1, in verse 18....
“No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God (monogenes theos) who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him.” (NASB)

If ‘no one has ever seen God’...how many people saw Jesus?

How is God “begotten”?

“Monogenes” means an “only child” and is used elsewhere in Scripture to refer to children with no siblings.
Jesus had siblings. How is he then “only begotten”?

And if God is an immortal, how can he die? Can mere humans kill God?

There are many more questions that raise many more questions....the Bible says nothing about a three in one god who can be in three different places at the same time.....talk to one another.....have different opinions....and know things that the others don’t...

UH-OH Aunty
you did acknowledge CHRIST in the CENTER of the THRONE where the CENTER of all of Heaven worships

 

[David in NJ]

@Aunty Jane

Run to the Only One who can Save you and give to you His Holy Spirit = just as the Apostles did and myself and many more

 

[Aunty Jane]

UH-OH Aunty
you did acknowledge CHRIST in the CENTER of the THRONE where the CENTER of all of Heaven worships

My apologies...I had to go places and do things.....it’s a busy life.

Let me address this now that I have some time....please remember that I am a teacher, so details are important. The Bible is a big book....but it’s one story....with one author.

When a person attacks the Word of God = it is done thru unbelief and hate.

The word of God was attacked by a rogue church, long before you and I were even thought of.
It doesn’t teach what the RCC said that it taught...far from it.
A foretold apostasy started in the later years of the first century and continued on in full force, once the restraining influence of the apostles was gone....just as Jesus foretold.

Where do you think all those false doctrines came from?.....Roman Catholicism......which you say you left...but you didn’t if you still accept their doctrines....have you really just adopted old lies under a new banner?.....not one of them is biblical, but can be traced back to ancient Babylon. Why did you leave the Catholic Church, David?

The One Truth is why that hate filled individual requested the to be shut down.

He is not hate filled at all...he just disagrees with the indoctrinated ”church” system and the false doctrines they teach. So do I....and with good reason.
Acknowledging that Jesus was a monotheistic Jew, (Deut 6:4) and that he and his apostles did not teach what Christendom teaches, is a hard truth to swallow....but upon studying the Bible for myself apart from widely held “church theology”, you soon find out how much of it is borrowed from paganism, and not founded on the Bible at all.

What do you think Jesus would want us to do under those circumstances, especially when he said in John 15:18-21....
“If the world hates you, you know that it has hated me before it hated you. 19  If you were part of the world, the world would be fond of what is its own. Now because you are no part of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, for this reason the world hates you. 20  Keep in mind the word I said to you: A slave is not greater than his master. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you; if they have observed my word, they will also observe yours. 21  But they will do all these things against you on account of my name, because they do not know the One who sent me.”

Drink that in.....who are hated by a deceived world? Why was Jesus hated.....and why were his disciples persecuted? Wasn’t it because he challenged the teachings of the accepted religion of the Jews as taught by those whom Jesus declared to be frauds and hypocrites? (Matt 23)

He exposed the way they twisted God’s word, and he said that they taught man-made doctrines, and passed them off as God’s truth. (Matt 15:7-9) So the hated minority were persecuted by the arrogant and overconfident majority who put faith in their wicked leaders, rather than listen to Jesus. Can you see the parallel today? Perhaps you do not want to....?

You missed the ONE TRUTH and i do not squirm away from "translations" when the whole of Scripture Speaks of CHRIST

The TRUTH of GOD is CHRIST

CHRIST/the LAMB, is Standing in the CENTER of the THRONE of His FATHER

No one is permitted there but the FATHER, the LAMB/CHRIST and the HOLY SPIRIT

If even Michael the Arch-Angel were to even attempt to enter the THRONE, he would be cast out FOREVER, never to return​

Let’s see what the Scripture you are referring to actually says.....
What is depicted by Jehovah’s throne? Where was Jehovah’s throne originally located in the days of ancient Israel?
1 Chron 29:23....
“And they ate and drank before the Lord on that day with great gladness.
And they made Solomon the son of David king the second time, and they anointed him as prince for the Lord, and Zadok as priest. Then Solomon sat on the throne of the Lord as king in place of David his father. And he prospered, and all Israel obeyed him.” (ESV)

Who were sitting on Jehovah’s throne in those verses?....David and his son and successor, Solomon.
Did they need to be God in order to do so?

So what does it say in Revelation Chapters 4-5?

Starting in verse 2, John sees a throne in heaven and someone is sitting on it.....it was such a magnificent sight that John had trouble describing it in human terms.
Around this throne were 24 other thrones, and on these thrones were 24 elders, dressed in white robes and they had golden crowns on their heads....these represent Chris’s elect...his co-rulers in the Kingdom of God.(Luke 22:28-30) The white robes for holiness and the crowns for rulership.

In Rev 3:21 we have something else to take into consideration....Jesus said....
“He who overcomes, I will grant to him to sit down with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne.” (NASB)

So what is this picturing about those thrones in heaven? Obviously, they picture rulership....as Christ is sitting down on his Father’s throne....as his elect will sit down with him on his throne. It is a shared rulership.
Christ rules in heaven as the appointed King of his Father’s Kingdom.....and he has co-rulers who will take up positions in the heavenly government....the one foretold by Isaiah....as the “government” that is “on the shoulders” of the “Prince of Peace”. (Isa 9:6)

In Rev 5:6, Jesus is depicted as a slaughtered lamb, in the midst of this picture....the only one worthy to open an important scroll and reveal its contents.

Verse 9 is a heavenly chorus singing a new song.....
“And they sang a new song, saying, “Worthy are You to take the book and to break its seals; for You were slain, and purchased for God with Your blood men from every tribe and tongue and people and nation. “You have made them to be a kingdom and priests to our God; and they will reign upon the earth.” (NASB)

Please note what was said....the lamb was worthy to open the book because his blood purchased “for God” “men from every tribe, tongue, people and nation”, to be “a Kingdom of priests to our God”.
The lamb is not God, but sits on his Father’s throne, just a Jesus’ co-rulers sit on his throne with him.

What you are describing is really not there....because there are multiple thrones depicted in this heavenly scene....all hand picked by God to bring the human race back into reconciliation with him through the legal channels he used to accomplish it. Jesus is the “mediator between God and man”.....a mediator is one who acts to reconcile two estranged parties......he therefore cannot be one of the parties.

It’s the whole Bible that tells one story and yet Christendom seems to be in a lot of confusion about a lot of things. Where does 1 Cor 1:10 fit in here?

Try to address the points raised and defend your beliefs scripturally.....what do they actually say, compared with what you wish they did?

 

[rebuilder 454]

Would you like to read in a good concordance what the word “theos” (god) means?

According to Strongs, the primary definition of “theos” is...

1. “a god or goddess, a general name of deities or divinities.”

So calling anyone “theos” is not calling them God with a capital “G”.
In Greek Jehovah was addressed as “ho theos”, because the Greek gods all had names, but the God of the Jews was at that time nameless. For an invalid reason the Jewish leaders had forbidden the people to utter the divine name out loud...substituting the title “Adonai” (Lord) instead. To distinguish this nameless God in writing they used the term “ho theos” meaning “THE God” of the Jews.

And since the Greek has no upper or lower case letters, the capitalisation of the word translated “god” is misleading...put there by trinitarian translators.

Human judges in Israel were called “gods” by Jehovah himself....(John 10:31-36)
Satan is called “theos” in 2 Cor 4:4....angels are also called “theos” because the word can refer to God, or to any divine personage, or to those divinely appointed to a certain role.

Thomas was not calling Jesus, “Jehovah”.....because the apostles as a collective clearly stated who was their God in 1 Cor 8:5-6....
“For even though there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth, just as there are many “gods” and many “lords,” 6  there is actually to us one God, the Father, from whom all things are and we for him; and there is one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things are and we through him.”

Jesus was their “Lord” (“kyrios” meaning...”he to whom a person or thing belongs, about which he has power of deciding; master, lord ) so.....not their God.


No Scripture says so, unless you can provide a direct statement from either Jehovah or his son that this is true. Twisting Scripture to suggest it is not the same as a direct statement....no doctrine can be based on suggestion...it has to be established fact.....the trinity is not Scriptural.

I can give you many reasons why Jesus cannot be God...one being in the same chapter of John 1, in verse 18....
“No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God (monogenes theos) who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him.” (NASB)

If ‘no one has ever seen God’...how many people saw Jesus?

How is God “begotten”?

“Monogenes” means an “only child” and is used elsewhere in Scripture to refer to children with no siblings.
Jesus had siblings. How is he then “only begotten”?

And if God is an immortal, how can he die? Can mere humans kill God?

There are many more questions that raise many more questions....the Bible says nothing about a three in one god who can be in three different places at the same time.....talk to one another.....have different opinions....and know things that the others don’t...

Wow
Is heaven and God ever confused inside watchtower walls.

You guys have Thomas worshipping some "entity" of Jesus, as correct.
Give me a break.
Your cult is so busted it is getting ridiculous.

What about your blatant attack on Jesus as being created?
Then the bible says " all things were created by Him"

So watchtower cult has Jesus creating himself.

 

[David in NJ]

Wow
Is heaven and God ever confused inside watchtower walls.

You guys have Thomas worshipping some "entity" of Jesus, as correct.
Give me a break.
Your cult is so busted it is getting ridiculous.

What about Jesus being created?
Then the bible says " all things were created by Him"

So watchtower cult now has Jesus creating himself.

Good Morning

Genesis 22:13 = RAM power = available to you at no cost with the GEM of TRUTH = Revelation chapter 1

 

[rebuilder 454]

Would you like to read in a good concordance what the word “theos” (god) means?

According to Strongs, the primary definition of “theos” is...

1. “a god or goddess, a general name of deities or divinities.”

So calling anyone “theos” is not calling them God with a capital “G”.
In Greek Jehovah was addressed as “ho theos”, because the Greek gods all had names, but the God of the Jews was at that time nameless. For an invalid reason the Jewish leaders had forbidden the people to utter the divine name out loud...substituting the title “Adonai” (Lord) instead. To distinguish this nameless God in writing they used the term “ho theos” meaning “THE God” of the Jews.

And since the Greek has no upper or lower case letters, the capitalisation of the word translated “god” is misleading...put there by trinitarian translators.

Human judges in Israel were called “gods” by Jehovah himself....(John 10:31-36)
Satan is called “theos” in 2 Cor 4:4....angels are also called “theos” because the word can refer to God, or to any divine personage, or to those divinely appointed to a certain role.

Thomas was not calling Jesus, “Jehovah”.....because the apostles as a collective clearly stated who was their God in 1 Cor 8:5-6....
“For even though there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth, just as there are many “gods” and many “lords,” 6  there is actually to us one God, the Father, from whom all things are and we for him; and there is one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things are and we through him.”

Jesus was their “Lord” (“kyrios” meaning...”he to whom a person or thing belongs, about which he has power of deciding; master, lord ) so.....not their God.


No Scripture says so, unless you can provide a direct statement from either Jehovah or his son that this is true. Twisting Scripture to suggest it is not the same as a direct statement....no doctrine can be based on suggestion...it has to be established fact.....the trinity is not Scriptural.

I can give you many reasons why Jesus cannot be God...one being in the same chapter of John 1, in verse 18....
“No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God (monogenes theos) who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him.” (NASB)

If ‘no one has ever seen God’...how many people saw Jesus?

How is God “begotten”?

“Monogenes” means an “only child” and is used elsewhere in Scripture to refer to children with no siblings.
Jesus had siblings. How is he then “only begotten”?

And if God is an immortal, how can he die? Can mere humans kill God?

There are many more questions that raise many more questions....the Bible says nothing about a three in one god who can be in three different places at the same time.....talk to one another.....have different opinions....and know things that the others don’t...

Colossians 1:16
For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: