What Does the Bible Really Teach About Jesus and his Relationship with his Father ?

[rebuilder 454]

Wow, out of what I said, this is all you can manage? A weak reply to the Scripture presented?
Where is your Scriptural response?

FYI The Watchtower is a printing facility used by Jehovah’s Witnesses to print and distribute Bibles and Bible literature all over the world.....it is a legal entity required by Law.

LOL....really? Since Thomas called Jesus “theos”, but not “ho theos”, he was not “worshipping” Jesus at all but correctly calling him a “divine mighty one”...”a god-like” one. That is the primary meaning of “theos”.

If God himself can call his human judges “gods” (theos) in John 10:31-26, then the word doesn’t just mean “Jehovah”, does it? Satan is called “theos” in 2 Cor 4:4.....we know what kind of god he wants to be....one who has been lying from the beginning.....and he has the majority travelling the wrong road. (Matt 7:13-14)

Was Thomas in disagreement with all the other apostles who plainly said that their “one God” was “the Father” and that Jesus was their “one Lord” (another word that doesn’t just mean “God”) (1 Cor 8:5-6)

Where is the “entity of Jesus” and where did I ever mention such a thing....?

Do you know what a straw man is? That’s where you create an argument that doesn’t exist, and then seek to strike down your own argument. Well done...

What cult do you belong to? Why don’t you give us all a break and climb down off your high horse and just defend your own beliefs without the sarcasm and misrepresentation? The tactic of someone who has no defence is to attack...well done again. One wonders what it is that you are ‘rebuilding’?

You’re hilarious....the strawmen just keep coming....
The Bible says Jesus was created....I provided the Scripture, yet you select a few words out of Scripture to prove otherwise....

Learn something.....verses or selected parts of them, taken out of context, don’t even amount to a hill of beans.

We have scriptures that speak of the Son’s role in creation....long before he became Jesus the Christ, he was co-Creator with his Father. God’s “firstborn” Son.
Who was God talking to in Genesis?...himself?

But then we have John 1:2-3, right after the verse everyone thinks is unassailable, yet it is a mistranslation as the Greek clearly shows....
Speaking of “the Word”....it says...
“He was in the beginning with God. All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being.” (NASB)

What are you missing here?

Do you know what “agency” is? It is one person representing another and acting on their behalf.....we all know what an “agent “ is.....the Son became his Father’s agent in rescuing the human race from the folly of disobedience and the abuse of free will.

First of all, an eternal God had no “beginning” so what is this “the beginning” of? Creation...and the very first of God’s creations was his Son....”begotten” by his Father alone.....the only direct creation of his God, who remains his “God” for all eternity. “All creation came “through” him. (agency)

Rev 3:14, written well after his return to heaven, Jesus identifies himself as “The Amen, the faithful and true Witness, the Beginning of the creation of God”...(NASB)

And a couple of verses before that Jesus says....
“He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of My God, and he will not go out from it anymore; and I will write on him the name of My God, and the name of the city of My God, the new Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from My God, and My new name.” (v 12 NASB)

How is the Father still the God of Jesus even in heaven? Your God is the one you worship....does Jesus worship himself? And why does God need a “new name”?

Col 1:15-17 also demonstrates the same statement.....
“He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. For by him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things were created through him and for him. And he is before all things, and in him all things hold together.” (ESV)

“The firstborn of all creation”.....and the one “through” whom “all things” came into existence. (agency)

Why can’t you let the Bible speak for itself? What have I twisted with quotes from my own Bible?

Unless you can address something in Scripture to show a direct statement from either God or his Son that they are equal parts of one God.....you have no argument...just empty criticisms of things you clearly haven’t studied.

The bible= Jesus is creator.
You and your cult = no let me show you how to REWRITE IT SO OUR WATCHTOWER MIMDS CAN DIGEST IT.

The Bible = Jesus resurrected himself
You and your cult= ahhh we can rewrite that one tooo!!!!!!

Look at our cunning abilities!!!!!

 

[rebuilder 454]

Whoops wounded ego.....and you even played the chauvinist card.....and with Scripture! tsk tsk....

Pot < > Kettle blue ribbon award

 

[Jack]

The bible= Jesus is creator.
You and your cult = no let me show you how to REWRITE IT SO OUR WATCHTOWER MIMDS CAN DIGEST IT.

The Bible = Jesus resurrected himself
You and your cult= ahhh we can rewrite that one tooo!!!!!!

Look at our cunning abilities!!!!!

JW's TWIST the Hell out of nearly every verse in the Bible to change what God said. They must have Bible TWISTING classes at Kingdom Hall.

 

[David in NJ]

I have not only read it...I have studied it......so, David, we will never agree.....I can let Jesus do the judging.....what about you?

The God and Father of Jesus Christ has appointed him to judge all of us.
He knows what we do not....I trust him...remember Matt 7:21-23 and 1 Cor 10:12....

If you continue rejecting Salvation by refusing to kneel in worship before the LORD JESUS CHRIST = you seal your eternal damnation because you are saying to the FATHER/GOD = @Aunty Jane says "i WILL NOT"

And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to the point of death, even the death of the cross.
Therefore God also has highly exalted Him and given Him the name which is above every name,
that at the Name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven,
and of those on earth,
and of those under the earth, and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father.

 

[Jack]

I have not only read it...I have studied it......so, David, we will never agree.....I can let Jesus do the judging.....what about you?

No you haven't. You only believe what the WatchTower tells you to believe!

The God and Father of Jesus Christ has appointed him to judge all of us.
He knows what we do not....I trust him...remember Matt 7:21-23 and 1 Cor 10:12....

JW doctrine: 'The Bible doesn't mean what it says. It means what the WatchTower says.'

 

[David in NJ]

No you haven't. You only believe what the WatchTower tells you to believe!

JW doctrine: 'The Bible doesn't mean what it says. It means what the WatchTower says.'

Jews/Talmud and RCC and JWs are all of the SAME mindset of rebellion

 

[rebuilder 454]

This was a response from another thread that was being shut down at the poster’s request, but I wanted to respond in a forum that accepts “unorthodox” views to show how the Bible describes our Lord Jesus and his relationship with his superior Father.


Is this a mistranslation? What does this verse say in Greek?

Look up “theos” in an Interlinear or concordance.....we have been through this before....”theos” doesn’t just mean YHWH...Yahweh/Jehovah.
Another way to translate John 1:1 accurately would be to identifyYahweh in that verse and then to identify who the other “theos” is.
It should read....
“In the beginning was the Word, (ho logos) and the Word was with Yahweh (ho theos) and the Word was divine (theos)”.

The way this verse is translated in most Bibles, is not saying what many think it is.......but is in disagreement with Paul’s Statement when speaking collectively for all the apostles....
1 Cor 8:5-6 ESV...he said....
“For although there may be so-called gods in heaven or on earth—as indeed there are many “gods” and many “lords”— yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist.”

Scripture explains Scripture. It also explains what Thomas said in identifying his Lord Jesus as “theos”....
The Bible describes holy ones like angels, and even the judges in Israel (whom Yahweh himself called “gods”) as “theos”. (John 10:31-36)

As the saying goes, David.... “a little knowledge is a dangerous thing”.
Studying “theology” is vastly different from studying the Bible....you must understand the difference.

(Underlining mine for reference)
I love it when Scripture is misinterpreted because then you can show the readers here what the Bible really says as opposed to what the church insists that it says....

Let’s unpack what it really says....

Jesus prayed....to his Father who was in heaven, whilst he was still on the earth. (One wonders how a single god can talk to his equal self, whilst he is far removed from his actual presence) Can one god be in two or three places at the same time and talk to one another?....have different opinions.....and know things the others don’t?
Sounds most illogical, especially when there is no direct statement that the three are one God.

If Jesus is equally “God” with his Father, why is it necessary for the Father to glorify his son, and to “grant” him “authority over all people”.....God already has authority over all people.

“so that He may give eternal life to all those You have given Him.”
Why did the Father need to “give” his son (his equal self) the ability to give eternal life to those who followed him?
If he was God, he could do that himself.

“Now this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom You have sent.”
So knowing God AND the one he sent is vital for eternal life.....why don’t we equally have to “know” the Holy Spirit? “He” is not mentioned.....why? And if the God we “know” (have been led to believe) is not the true God...What then?

“I have glorified You on earth by accomplishing the work You gave Me to do.”
Whose work was Jesus doing? He was on assignment, but who sent him? Who gave him his assignment so that the apostles could call Jesus “God’s holy servant”? (Acts 4:27, 30)....is this calling him “God”?

“And now, Father, glorify Me in Your presence with the glory I had with You before the world existed.”
This is a request for something to be reinstated.....a glory that the Son had “with” his Father “before the world existed”....a time when he existed before everything else.
At Col 1:15, Paul calls Jesus “the firstborn of all creation”...and Rev 3:14 Jesus calls himself, “the beginning of God’s creation”.
These are clear statements, not suggestions. They just don’t fit with this widely accepted but unproven church doctrine....yet there cannot be a contradiction. God’s word does not lie.


Words in brackets added by me for simplification.....
It was the Word (ho logos) who became flesh, not God (ho theos) The Greek makes clear what the flawed English translation does not.....theological bias at work...unless you study the Greek with an Interlinear, you will never see it.

Wow!...how do you think that applies here? Who is our Christian “brother”? One who believes a different truth to what we do? Paul argues with you.....

“I appeal to you, brothers, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree, and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be united in the same mind and the same judgment. . . . What I mean is that each one of you says, “I follow Paul,” or “I follow Apollos,” or “I follow Cephas,” or “I follow Christ.” Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul? (1 Cor 1:10-13 ESV)

And if you argue with me, and hold views that I cannot find in Scripture because I have studied the Bible carefully (apart from church theology), then we cannot be “brethren”....so, whose ideas do you subscribe to David? Whose “brand” of theology do you accept?...and why?

We are separating ourselves in this “time of the end” when Christ is due to appear as the judge of all of us.....and only two categories exist...”sheep” and “goats”....so we are all in either one or the other....
By what we accept as truth, we are judged accordingly. What trait are “goats” notorious for? I have goats, so I see this first hand.....stubborn!....with no concept that they might be standing in your way....you have to push them or they won’t move. Think about that.....

Over 40 times "theos" is used in MATTHEW ALONE.
40 TIMES!!!! JUST IN MATTHEW!!!!!
Now show us, in your changed bible analysis ,where it is used Outside of the meaning of "God".
How many times?

 

[Aunty Jane]

If you continue rejecting Salvation by refusing to kneel in worship before the LORD JESUS CHRIST = you seal your eternal damnation because you are saying to the FATHER/GOD = @Aunty Jane says "i WILL NOT"

Nonsense. Jesus is my “Lord”....he just isn’t my “God”. I worship the same God as Jesus always has.

There is no such thing as “damnation” according to Christendom’s definition. Jehovah has no desire or purpose to punish people for all eternity, with no way to repent....that is the action of a sadist.
I could not worship such a god, but it amazes me how many don’t see the problem as it goes completely against God’s love and his justice. No punishment in Israel required torture. Death was the highest penalty, but apparently that is not enough for some people.

And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to the point of death, even the death of the cross.
Therefore God also has highly exalted Him and given Him the name which is above every name,
that at the Name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven,
and of those on earth,
and of those under the earth, and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father.

You really are a sucker for punishment......
Can we unpack what you just quoted and see what it actually says, as compared with what you think it does....

Phil 2:5-11 has been used to promote the doctrine upon which Christendom is founded....so does it?
From the NET....
“You should have the same attitude toward one another that Christ Jesus had, who though he existed in the form of God did not regard equality with God as something to be grasped”

Should we not first ask what “form” does God have?
John 4:24 tells us that “God is a spirit”....so in heaven, Jesus existed in spirit “form”, as do all who inhabit the heavenly realm....none are material beings.

Then is says the opposite of what many think it does especially if their Bible is not correctly translated.
“though he existed in the form of God did not regard equality with God as something to be grasped” so “equality with God” was something he did NOT seek.

“but emptied himself by taking on the form of a slave, by looking like other men, and by sharing in human nature. He humbled himself, by becoming obedient to the point of death—even death on a cross!”

So taking on human form was a huge demotion for such a magnificent spirit being, but he was humble and took on the role because he loved his Father and mankind enough to do that....even knowing that it would involve death by impalement...crucifixion was one of the creuelst deaths imaginable.

And, he did so ‘obediently’...to whom is God obedient?

“As a result God highly exalted him and gave him the name that is above every name”

By successfully carrying out his assignment (being “sent” by his Father) he was rewarded with a new name...one that was “above” every other name...except one.

Yahweh/Jehovah has a name that is “the Most High over all the earth” (Psalm 83:18 KJV)
There is no name higher.
Can God give himself a name that is above the one he already has?
Jesus’ new name is mentioned again at Rev 3:12 where he speaks about his “God”......calling his Father “my God” four times in that one verse. Can God have a God even in heaven?

“so that at the name of Jesus every knee will bow—in heaven and on earth and under the earth— and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father.”

So now we have the name of Jesus being held in such high esteem that obeisance is required. Bowing the knee is not an act of worship, but of honouring someone worthy of respect. (common in Bible times)

Confessing Jesus Christ as “Lord” (addressing them with this English title is the same as addressing someone who is superior as “Sir”)....but who gets the glory? “God the Father”.....because “God the Father” is “the only true God”. (John 17:3)

Before you quote any more Scripture....read what is said and meditate on what it actually means.....not what is suggested by a doctrine that wasn’t even made official in “the church” until over 300 years after Christ’s death.....if there was even one unequivocal statement in the whole Bible by Jesus or his Father, suggesting what Christendom teaches, we wouldn’t be having this discussion.

 

[David in NJ]

Nonsense. Jesus is my “Lord”....he just isn’t my “God”. I worship the same God as Jesus always has.

There is no such thing as “damnation” according to Christendom’s definition. Jehovah has no desire or purpose to punish people for all eternity, with no way to repent....that is the action of a sadist.
I could not worship such a god, but it amazes me how many don’t see the problem as it goes completely against God’s love and his justice. No punishment in Israel required torture. Death was the highest penalty, but apparently that is not enough for some people.

You really are a sucker for punishment......
Can we unpack what you just quoted and see what it actually says, as compared with what you think it does....

Phil 2:5-11 has been used to promote the doctrine upon which Christendom is founded....so does it?
From the NET....
“You should have the same attitude toward one another that Christ Jesus had, who though he existed in the form of God did not regard equality with God as something to be grasped”

Should we not first ask what “form” does God have?
John 4:24 tells us that “God is a spirit”....so in heaven, Jesus existed in spirit “form”, as do all who inhabit the heavenly realm....none are material beings.

Then is says the opposite of what many think it does especially if their Bible is not correctly translated.
“though he existed in the form of God did not regard equality with God as something to be grasped” so “equality with God” was something he did NOT seek.

“but emptied himself by taking on the form of a slave, by looking like other men, and by sharing in human nature. He humbled himself, by becoming obedient to the point of death—even death on a cross!”

So taking on human form was a huge demotion for such a magnificent spirit being, but he was humble and took on the role because he loved his Father and mankind enough to do that....even knowing that it would involve death by impalement...crucifixion was one of the creuelst deaths imaginable.

And, he did so ‘obediently’...to whom is God obedient?

“As a result God highly exalted him and gave him the name that is above every name”

By successfully carrying out his assignment (being “sent” by his Father) he was rewarded with a new name...one that was “above” every other name...except one.

Yahweh/Jehovah has a name that is “the Most High over all the earth” (Psalm 83:18 KJV)
There is no name higher.
Can God give himself a name that is above the one he already has?
Jesus’ new name is mentioned again at Rev 3:12 where he speaks about his “God”......calling his Father “my God” four times in that one verse. Can God have a God even in heaven?

“so that at the name of Jesus every knee will bow—in heaven and on earth and under the earth— and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father.”

So now we have the name of Jesus being held in such high esteem that obeisance is required. Bowing the knee is not an act of worship, but of honouring someone worthy of respect. (common in Bible times)

Confessing Jesus Christ as “Lord” (addressing them with this English title is the same as addressing someone who is superior as “Sir”)....but who gets the glory? “God the Father”.....because “God the Father” is “the only true God”. (John 17:3)

Before you quote any more Scripture....read what is said and meditate on what it actually means.....not what is suggested by a doctrine that wasn’t even made official in “the church” until over 300 years after Christ’s death.....if there was even one unequivocal statement in the whole Bible by Jesus or his Father, suggesting what Christendom teaches, we wouldn’t be having this discussion.

Can God give himself a name that is above the one he already has?

Absolutely and in FACT, HE has = LORD JESUS CHRIST

Then Peter, filled with the Holy Spirit, said to them, “Rulers of the people and elders of Israel: 9If we this day are judged for a good deed done to a helpless man, by what means he has been made well, 10let it be known to you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom you crucified, whom God raised from the dead, by Him this man stands here before you whole. 11This is the ‘stone which was rejected by you builders, which has become the chief cornerstone.’ 12Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.”

 

[Aunty Jane]

11This is the ‘stone which was rejected by you builders, which has become the chief cornerstone.’ 12Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.”

Yes, he is the chief cornerstone of his Father’s Kingdom......a kingdom in which he reigns with others on thrones as you have been shown....it is shared rulership.
It IS the name by which we must get saved....but it’s not his “new name” is it?

 

[David in NJ]

Yes, he is the chief cornerstone of his Father’s Kingdom......a kingdom in which he reigns with others on thrones as you have been shown....it is shared rulership.
It IS the name by which we must get saved....but it’s not his “new name” is it?

AGREE

Now you need to AGREE and worship, with all of Heaven, LAMB/CHRIST at the CENTER of the THRONE of GOD

# 1- If you do, and obey the LORD Jesus Christ = your sins will be removed.

#2 - Then you can pray to the LORD Jesus Christ and ask to be Baptized in the HOLY SPIRIT = John 14:15-17

#3 - When HE, the Spirit of Truth comes, HE will lead you in all Truth that Glorifies the LORD Jesus Christ

He will glorify Me because it is from Me that He will receive what He will make known to you.

 

[rebuilder 454]

Yes, he is the chief cornerstone of his Father’s Kingdom......a kingdom in which he reigns with others on thrones as you have been shown....it is shared rulership.
It IS the name by which we must get saved....but it’s not his “new name” is it?

Again
Jesus is creator as the bible says, and you failed to refute.
No matter your tireless efforts to smear the testimony of Jesus, the bible stands as truth, and watchtower as liars.

John 1​

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.​

2 The same was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

​

Colossians 1:16-20​

16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:​

17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.
19 For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;

Colossians 2
4 And this I say, lest any man should beguile you with enticing words.
5 For though I be absent in the flesh, yet am I with you in the spirit, joying and beholding your order, and the stedfastness of your faith in Christ.
6 As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him:
7 Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving.
8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

heb 1
6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.
7 And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.
8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.

John 2:19: "Jesus answered them, 'Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.'". Jesus was speaking of His own body, foreshadowing His death and resurrection, not the physical Jerusalem temple, which His disciples only understood after His resurrection.

this is why it could only be God on the cross.
No man could resurrect himself.
Only God can do that.
No grave can hold God. Crucify any other man and he could not resurrect himself.

No watchtower guru on the planet can answer those verses honestly.
The verses I posted, must be defeated in the watchtower workbook.

Enter the cunning watchtower bible butchers

 

[rvmb]

Again
Jesus is creator as the bible says, and you failed to refute.
No matter your tireless efforts to smear the testimony of Jesus, the bible stands as truth, and watchtower as liars.

John 1​

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.​

2 The same was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

​

Colossians 1:16-20​

16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:​

17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.
19 For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;

Colossians 2
4 And this I say, lest any man should beguile you with enticing words.
5 For though I be absent in the flesh, yet am I with you in the spirit, joying and beholding your order, and the stedfastness of your faith in Christ.
6 As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him:
7 Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving.
8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

heb 1
6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.
7 And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.
8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.

John 2:19: "Jesus answered them, 'Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.'". Jesus was speaking of His own body, foreshadowing His death and resurrection, not the physical Jerusalem temple, which His disciples only understood after His resurrection.

this is why it could only be God on the cross.
No man could resurrect himself.
Only God can do that.
No grave can hold God. Crucify any other man and he could not resurrect himself.

No watchtower guru on the planet can answer those verses honestly.
They must be defeated in the watchtower workbook.

Enter the cunning bible butchers

No matter your tireless efforts to smear the testimony of Jesus, the bible stands as truth, and watchtower as liars.
A Jesus/Micheal question that JW won't/can't answer with verses
Why does Christ allow worship yet angel (eg Michael) is forbidden ?
Jesus rebukes Satan yet Michael dared not - Jude 1:9

 

[rebuilder 454]

Yes, he is the chief cornerstone of his Father’s Kingdom......a kingdom in which he reigns with others on thrones as you have been shown....it is shared rulership.
It IS the name by which we must get saved....but it’s not his “new name” is it?

There is another christ ....the Antichrist.
That man would suit watchtower perfectly.
An imposter that is not devine.
That here, would be a man watchtower could embrace !!!!!!!
A false Jesus that is only a man.
Perfect fit.

 

[rvmb]

There is another christ ....the Antichrist.
That man would suit watchtower perfectly.
An imposter that is not devine.
That here, would be a man watchtower could embrace !!!!!!!
A false Jesus that is only a man.
Perfect fit.

JW believe Jesus is Michael, hmmm ?
Why does Jesus accept worship yet angel worship is forbidden ?
Jesus rebukes Satan yet Michael (Jude 1:9 ) dared not.

 

[rebuilder 454]

JW believe Jesus is Michael, hmmm ?
Why does Jesus accept worship yet angel worship is forbidden ?
Jesus rebukes Satan yet Michael (Jude 1:9 ) dared not.

From what I understand watchtower has left the, "Jesus = Michael" error.
They finally gave up on that lie....as far as I know.
I think they actually gave up on their "144000 theory" as well. (roll eyes)
If you want a good laugh ask them to define "born again" ...it is hilarious.

 

[rebuilder 454]

There is another christ ....the Antichrist.
That man would suit watchtower perfectly.
An imposter that is not devine.
That there, would be a man watchtower could embrace !!!!!!!
A false Jesus that is only a man.
Perfect fit.

I really like this concept for them.
They can get total traction on trumpeting a human messiah that is NOT GOD.

That is a free tip for watchtower proselytes.
( since the scripturally illiterate are "prospects" and top "watchtower Generals")

 

[rvmb]

From what I understand watchtower has left the, "Jesus = Michael" error.
They finally gave up on that lie....as far as I know.
I think they actually gave up on their "144000 theory" as well. (roll eyes)
If you want a good laugh ask them to define "born again" ...it is hilarious.

Many of the JW believers are fine people who are misled/blinded by the faulty towers teachings that they believe are true & correct.
Myself, I'm just a simple Bible alone believer, Scripture is my teacher .

 

[Aunty Jane]

AGREE

Now you need to AGREE and worship, with all of Heaven, LAMB/CHRIST at the CENTER of the THRONE of GOD

# 1- If you do, and obey the LORD Jesus Christ = your sins will be removed.

#2 - Then you can pray to the LORD Jesus Christ and ask to be Baptized in the HOLY SPIRIT = John 14:15-17

#3 - When HE, the Spirit of Truth comes, HE will lead you in all Truth that Glorifies the LORD Jesus Christ

He will glorify Me because it is from Me that He will receive what He will make known to you.

Perhaps you need to research the meaning of the word “worship”......(pro·sky·neʹo)

In America’s they call Judges “Your Honor”...but in the British system (also used in Australia) they used to be addressed as “Your Worship”....do you know why? Because in Greek it’s the same word with two different applications. It is an address of respect for their position.

When directed to God it is rightly translated “worship”, but if it is directed to a human or to one who is not God, the word is more correctly translated “obeisance”. It is virtually a bow of respect, common in Bible times. Abraham was said to have offered this obeisance to the sons of Heth. (Gen 23:7)

Jesus never once accepted “worship” because he was a human. As the Son of God he accepted obeisance however, when it was offered by men or even angels.....

The term pro·sky·neʹo is used in connection with a slave’s doing obeisance to a king (Matt 18:26) as well as the act satan stipulated when he offered Jesus all the kingdoms of the world and their glory. Matt 4:8-9) Had he done obeisance to the Devil, Jesus would thereby have signified submission to satan and made himself the devil’s servant. But Jesus refused.

Do you do any actual Bible study for yourself, David? We are encouraged to.

 

[Jack]

Perhaps you need to research the meaning of the word “worship”......(pro·sky·neʹo)

In America’s they call Judges “Your Honor”...but in the British system (also used in Australia) they used to be addressed as “Your Worship”....do you know why? Because in Greek it’s the same word with two different applications. It is an address of respect for their position.

When directed to God it is rightly translated “worship”, but if it is directed to a human or to one who is not God, the word is more correctly translated “obeisance”. It is virtually a bow of respect, common in Bible times. Abraham was said to have offered this obeisance to the sons of Heth. (Gen 23:7)

Jesus never once accepted “worship” because he was a human. As the Son of God he accepted obeisance however, when it was offered by men or even angels.....

The term pro·sky·neʹo is used in connection with a slave’s doing obeisance to a king (Matt 18:26) as well as the act satan stipulated when he offered Jesus all the kingdoms of the world and their glory. Matt 4:8-9) Had he done obeisance to the Devil, Jesus would thereby have signified submission to satan and made himself the devil’s servant. But Jesus refused.

Do you do any actual Bible study for yourself, David? We are encouraged to.

Aunty's a Greek and Hebrew expert. The Watchtower told her so. She's qualified to rewrite the entire Christian Bible to fit WatchTower doctrine!