A Little Season

[WPM]

Excellent job of not addressing what I said in my post, as usual.

It is pointless engaging with him. He cannot address counter arguments. It knocks him off his track.

 

[WPM]

It is a matter of receiving God’s Word with spiritual discernment. You are correct: fleeing the Abomination of Desolation has nothing to do with the Jews in 70 A.D., nor with a future event when a so-called Antichrist sets up a statue on the Temple Mount. It has nothing to do with weeping mothers or grabbing possessions from their homes.

Christ was speaking about His New Testament congregation during the brief season when Satan is allowed to act as God’s instrument to judge the unfaithful in the Church. Woe the woman who represents the Church. Her child are people of her congregation. The Children, if not saved yet, will no longer be able to suck Gospel Truth within the church for she is under judgment.

Matthew 24:19-21

• And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
• But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
• For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

The context of verse 15-25 is about the spiritual condition of the church where salvation is not possible at that time.
Winter in scripture is the time of hardship, deprivation and storms where there is a lack of stores in the field. It is a time when all the harvest is done and there can be no more increase. A time when the work in the field has ended. Like the Sabbath, signifies a time of rest, when the earth rests from its work.

And that (Like the Sabbath in Matthew) it also symbolizes a time when salvation has ended on earth and there can be no more work in the field. There is no more fruits of the field to harvest. It is the time when no man can work to bring an increase.

Song of Solomon 2:11

• "For, lo, the winter is past, the rain is over and gone;"

Again, winter symbolizes a season of hardship and barrenness—a time when nothing grows. Spiritually, it represents the absence of salvation or opportunity for new life in Christ. This is why Christ warned us to pray that our flight would not be in the winter: because once winter arrives, it is too late for planting or producing anything. The time for growth has ended, and the harvest has already come and gone. For all Elect has been secured (Revelation 7:3-4) . All Israel has been saved (Romans 11:26), In other words, the season of salvation will be over, and no further opportunity will remain. So it will be for a little season of no salvation before Christ returns to gather the remaining Elect who will be still alive and remain.

Jeremiah 8:20

• "The harvest is past, the summer is ended, and we are not saved."

John 9:4

• I must work the works of him that sent me, while it is day: the night cometh, when no man can work.

It is a period when time has run out for man to be delivered or saved. Pray that man's flight from Judea (symbolically church) is not at a time when salvation has already ended and no man can work. Because if we are not saved then (Revelation 7:3), we will be under judgement and wrath of God.

This is "WHY" God has to seal His people first before loose Satan. And when they "see" Abomination of Desolation standing in the Holy Place (Church), flee to avoid partake of unfaithful church's plagues.



Close! I am currently busy writing an article about exactly what is Abomination of Desolation and why Elect need to flee from it when they "see" it.

This is the way the Gnostics approach Scripture. Nothing is literal. Everything is spiritualized.

 

[rwb]

No the great tribulation of Matthew 24:21 applies to the period called the little season when Satan was loosened after the building of the church is finished. It will be the worst part of the Great Tribulation since the Creation (not Church).

I agree the little season will certainly be part of great tribulation that has come, is coming, and shall continue to come against the Church. I also agree it will be the worst time for every saint still alive on this earth after time for building the Kingdom of God has expired.

Yes, the church has always faced tribulation on earth while Satan was bound. But that is not the same as “the great tribulation” described in Matthew 24:21. You need to read the context carefully. The events Jesus describes in Matthew 24 simply do not fit the 1st century, 7th century, 18th century, or any other past period

You're making "great tribulation" "THE" great tribulation, but Scripture does not. Everything Christ said would come to pass began to come to pass in the first century AD and shall continue and increase until Christ comes again.

Matthew 24:21 (KJV) For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

Mark 13:19 (KJV) For in those days shall be affliction, such as was not from the beginning of the creation which God created unto this time, neither shall be.

Did the abomination of desolation ever occur during the first-century church? The 5th century? The 16th century? Of course not. And do you understand what winter and the sabbath day refer to in this context? Jesus ties these details directly to the time when the abomination of desolation is set up—which happens only after Satan is loosed, not before.

This means these warnings do not apply to the church throughout the centuries since the Cross, but specifically to the period when Satan is released and the abomination of desolation finally stands in the holy place—just as Daniel prophesied.

Yes, the AOD did occur during the first century. God judged Israel and found her guilty of these seven things that God hates. In the same way the Old Covenant nation committed these seven abominable sins physically against the Lord with the final cry being "crucify Him" assured their utter destruction, so too the Church on earth shall also be judged and found guilty of spiritually committing the same sins and abominations that brought the Old Covenant nation to ruin, that will bring the Church to spiritual ruin also. Churches throughout the ages are just as guilty of crucifying Christ in a spiritual sense as Israel of Old was guilty of physically crucifying Him.

Proverbs 6:16-19 (KJV) These six things doth the LORD hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him: A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief, A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren.

The AOD is not seen with physical sight but understanding through the Spirit of Christ within when Churches, like the Temple of Old are no longer a house of prayer but have become a den of thieves. Just as the disciples were to understand the crucifixion was the AOD Daniel foretells, and knowing they should flee, so too every disciple of Christ is instructed to understand when our places of worship (Church) cease to be houses of prayer, but become dens of thieves, we should also depart out of them without looking back.

Matthew 24:15 (KJV) When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)

In vss. 16-20 Christ answers His disciples' questions regarding the utter destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple. These verses, confirmed through Luke are directed explicitly to Jewish people living in the first century that history proves came to pass in 70 AD.

Matthew 24:16-20 (KJV) Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains: Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house: Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes. And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days! But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:

The remainder of the chapter is again directed to disciples of Christ and speak of all the Church shall endure as the gospel of the Kingdom of God is proclaimed unto all the earth. Great tribulation against the disciples of Christ, the Church, and great distress, and wrath upon "this people" (the Jewish nation), as vengeance of God comes against the physical city and temple, all things written of the Jewish nation fulfilled.

Matthew 24:21-22 (KJV) For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

Luke 21:22-24 (KJV) For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled. But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people. And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

 

[TribulationSigns]

This is the way the Gnostics approach Scripture. Nothing is literal. Everything is spiritualized.

Not everything. LOL. I have heard this before from someone who does not like what they hear. I have quoted Scripture to back it up. Don't like it? The Lord judges and I am comfortable with that.

 

[WPM]

Not everything. LOL. I have heard this before from someone who does not like what they hear. I have quoted Scripture to back it up. Don't like it? The Lord judges and I am comfortable with that.

It is a matter of receiving God’s Word with spiritual discernment. You are correct: fleeing the Abomination of Desolation has nothing to do with the Jews in 70 A.D., nor with a future event when a so-called Antichrist sets up a statue on the Temple Mount. It has nothing to do with weeping mothers or grabbing possessions from their homes.

Christ was speaking about His New Testament congregation during the brief season when Satan is allowed to act as God’s instrument to judge the unfaithful in the Church. Woe the woman who represents the Church. Her child are people of her congregation. The Children, if not saved yet, will no longer be able to suck Gospel Truth within the church for she is under judgment.

Matthew 24:19-21

• And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
• But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
• For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

The context of verse 15-25 is about the spiritual condition of the church where salvation is not possible at that time.
Winter in scripture is the time of hardship, deprivation and storms where there is a lack of stores in the field. It is a time when all the harvest is done and there can be no more increase. A time when the work in the field has ended. Like the Sabbath, signifies a time of rest, when the earth rests from its work.

And that (Like the Sabbath in Matthew) it also symbolizes a time when salvation has ended on earth and there can be no more work in the field. There is no more fruits of the field to harvest. It is the time when no man can work to bring an increase.

Song of Solomon 2:11

• "For, lo, the winter is past, the rain is over and gone;"

Again, winter symbolizes a season of hardship and barrenness—a time when nothing grows. Spiritually, it represents the absence of salvation or opportunity for new life in Christ. This is why Christ warned us to pray that our flight would not be in the winter: because once winter arrives, it is too late for planting or producing anything. The time for growth has ended, and the harvest has already come and gone. For all Elect has been secured (Revelation 7:3-4) . All Israel has been saved (Romans 11:26), In other words, the season of salvation will be over, and no further opportunity will remain. So it will be for a little season of no salvation before Christ returns to gather the remaining Elect who will be still alive and remain.

Jeremiah 8:20

• "The harvest is past, the summer is ended, and we are not saved."

John 9:4

• I must work the works of him that sent me, while it is day: the night cometh, when no man can work.

It is a period when time has run out for man to be delivered or saved. Pray that man's flight from Judea (symbolically church) is not at a time when salvation has already ended and no man can work. Because if we are not saved then (Revelation 7:3), we will be under judgement and wrath of God.

This is "WHY" God has to seal His people first before loose Satan. And when they "see" Abomination of Desolation standing in the Holy Place (Church), flee to avoid partake of unfaithful church's plagues.



Close! I am currently busy writing an article about exactly what is Abomination of Desolation and why Elect need to flee from it when they "see" it.

You live in a mystical world and promote whatever can be explained away in an illusionary manner. Anything that cuts across your error is symbolized away. How convenient! Anything goes. Premils are doing that with 2 Peter 3. This is where you can tell: false teachers are in trouble.

Localized Tribulation

Whatever people are in view in whatever location (the Bible says Jerusalem and Judea not Johannesburg or Jaffa), they are limited if fleeing “on the sabbath day” (Saturday). This certainly isn't a restriction to American Christians, maybe Israeli ones. Now, why would such a matter be a limitation to one fleeing the great tribulation? Simple. Because of the strict Pharisaic Law in Israel at that time that restricted the actual distance a Jew could walk on the Sabbath day (Friday sunset to Saturday sunset), as it was a religious day of rest. Jews were only allowed to only walk three quarters of a mile on the Sabbath before they would break the day of rest. At the time of Jesus the Jewish authorities closed the gates of the city on the Sabbath; therefore flight from the city on that day would have been extremely difficult. Simply put: they would be severely limited if fleeing “on the sabbath day.”

How can the Futurists serious relate such a restriction (1) to the Church and (2) the period preceding "the end of the age"? This last assertion further supports the view that the Jewish capital is the setting and the Jews living in that city (prior to AD 70) are the subjects receiving this warning.

It was Israel’s wanton rejection of Messiah that drew this widespread devastation upon the land. The Jewish people are clearly the recipients of this great judgment, which is similarly described in the respective readings as the “wrath,” “vengeance” and “tribulation great” of God. But why such vengeance? Because the Jewish nation had finally rejected God’s only provision for sin and uncleanness – their Messiah – by crucifying Him. It was now time for God to punish them with His “wrath” for this great iniquitous transgression. Christ was speaking to a company of Christ-rejecting inhabitants of Jerusalem, and a "generation" nearly 2,000 years ago, which would witness this tribulation great. However, it was to be the vengeance and wrath of God, not an end-time antichrist. Nowhere did Christ say that the aforementioned tribulation great would be global.

Also, worth noting, the fact that Christ advances three particular types of situation that would prove restrictive to anyone fleeing the described destruction. Firstly, a woman laden down with the burden and responsibility of a weaning child; understandably she would be physically hampered in her escape. Secondly, fleeing during the winter season, obviously because the elements would have proved an undoubted restriction to Jews 2,000 years ago. Winter conditions in ancient days would have been a real issue then but not for us in our modern civilization. The poorest saints today have access to able vehicles that are well-maintained and well-heated. However, flight during winter would have been a real restriction for early Church saints. Thirdly, fleeing “on the sabbath day.” Now, why would such a matter be a limitation to one escaping the great tribulation? Simple, because of the strict Pharisaic Law in Israel at that time that restricted the actual distance a Jew could walk on the Sabbath day (Friday sunset to Saturday sunset), as it was a religious day of rest. Jews were only allowed to only walk three quarters of a mile on the Sabbath before they would break the day of rest. This was a religious rule that enjoyed no scriptural foundation. The Jews would be snared with their own limitation. How can the Futurists serious relate such a restriction to a post-secret rapture tribulation? This last assertion further supports the view that the Jewish capital is the setting and the Jews living in that city (prior to AD 70) are the subjects receiving this warning.

Luke’s account of this great tribulation limits this great tribulation to “the land” (singular) as in Israel, not many lands (plural) as some would have us believe. He also shows how the wrath will be reserved for “this people” who possess the land – namely the Jews. He explains how these Jews shall “fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.” The wordings of these texts make it impossible for it to be a worldwide end-time tribulation.

Also, in carefully comparing these three accounts, with their related expressions, which describe the one identical event, we note some very vital information. Speaking of the same situation, all three writers say, “when ye see” a certain thing appear “then” that is your sign to “flee.” What was that thing? Matthew and Mark describe that sign as “the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet.” Notwithstanding, they then both proceed to situate that abomination of desolation, using slightly differing terminology, “in the holy place” (Matthew 24:15) and “where it ought not” (Mark 13:14).

 

[WPM]

It is a matter of receiving God’s Word with spiritual discernment. You are correct: fleeing the Abomination of Desolation has nothing to do with the Jews in 70 A.D., nor with a future event when a so-called Antichrist sets up a statue on the Temple Mount. It has nothing to do with weeping mothers or grabbing possessions from their homes.

Christ was speaking about His New Testament congregation during the brief season when Satan is allowed to act as God’s instrument to judge the unfaithful in the Church. Woe the woman who represents the Church. Her child are people of her congregation. The Children, if not saved yet, will no longer be able to suck Gospel Truth within the church for she is under judgment.

Matthew 24:19-21

• And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
• But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
• For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

Matthew 24:15: "When ye (the disciples) therefore shall see the abomination of desolation spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, whoso readeth, let him understand: Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

Mark 13:14-19 says, “when ye (the disciples) shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains:

Luke’s parallel passage, in Luke 21:20-24, records, “when ye (the disciples) shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh. Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains."

Dr. Luke is more specific, and seems to identify both the warning that would appear, and the location (or holy place) where it would appear. He states, “when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.” After identifying this, he then declares, in near identical language to the other two accounts, “Then let them which are in Judaea flee.” Plainly, the appearance of the sign is the actual signal that the Lord gives to occasion the escape from Jerusalem. We must therefore assume, from this corresponding accounts, that the appearance of the desolater, which was to be the actual signal to flee, was the “compassed” or circling invading heathen Roman armies, which had come to specially destroy the city, and that the “holy place” is the actual city of Jerusalem, or the temple therein.

The only thing that would push us away from the idea that the temple was the actual holy place described is that Luke just simply mentions Jerusalem. Also, one would image that if an invading army had advanced as far as the temple, in the centre of Jerusalem, then it would be far too late for to flee. Surely the harmony and correlation between these three passages, including the unquestionable restricting of the persecution to Jerusalem and the Jewish people makes this a profound historic record of God’s wrath upon the Jewish nation for their rejection of Messiah and the continuation of the then abolished sacrifices.

The command to flee was taken up by the believing Jews who indeed acted upon the Lord's counsel and therefore escaped this judgment of the Lord. They were consequently able to take the Gospel out throughout the Middle East. I don't know how you can't see this. Maybe you don't want to see it?

The Re-dispersion Of The Jews

The text plainly declares, “For there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people. And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.”

Does the futurist honestly believe that their end-time great tribulation period, which they contend directly precedes the second coming, is going to see the re-dispersion of the Jews to all nations again? Luke 21:22-24 indicates, “For there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people. And they shall fall by the edge of the sword.” What land? Natural Israel. What people? The Jews. What shall befall them? Those that are not slain “shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.”

(1) Surely we are now in “the times of the Gentiles”? If this is the case then the tribulation in view in our discussion must assuredly be an historic event, not a future hope.
(2) Do you believe that Israel will be "led away captive into all nations" after the second coming then?

 

[WPM]

The context of verse 15-25 is about the spiritual condition of the church where salvation is not possible at that time.
Winter in scripture is the time of hardship, deprivation and storms where there is a lack of stores in the field. It is a time when all the harvest is done and there can be no more increase. A time when the work in the field has ended. Like the Sabbath, signifies a time of rest, when the earth rests from its work.

The context of Matthew 24:15-22 is clearly the destruction of Jerusalem.

In His discourse in Matthew 23:37-24:2 the Lord warns, “O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not! Behold, your house is left unto you desolate. For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord (the second coming). Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple. And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? Verily I say unto you, there shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.”

The religious Jews of Jerusalem were about to witness the destruction of their temple. Moreover, that ruination would remain in place from its demolition right up until the second coming of the Lord.

Matthew 24:1-2 records, “And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple. And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.”

Christ was specifically speaking here of “the buildings of the temple” not the city.

Mark 13:1-2 records, “And as he went out of the temple, one of his disciples saith unto him, Master, see what manner of stones and what buildings are here. And Jesus answering said unto him, Seest thou these great buildings? there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.”

In this parallel account, Mark corroborates the thought of Matthew.

Luke 21:5-6 records, “And as some spake of the temple, how it was adorned with goodly stones and gifts, he said, As for these things which ye behold, the days will come, in the which there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.”

The disciples then asked two questions in Matthew 24 in response to our Lord’s words.

Matthew 24:3 records:

1. “When shall these things be?”
2. “What shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?”

Mark 13:4 records:

1. “When shall these things be?”
2. “What shall be the sign when all these things shall be fulfilled (finished or ended)?”

Luke 21:7 records:

1. “When shall these things be?”
2. “What sign will there be when these things shall come to pass?”

Christ addressed both questions and both eras in chapter 24. However, because of the intermingling of His response, many Bible students suffer great confusion in identifying what aspect of the teaching relates to AD 70 and what relates to the second coming.

In His response to the first question in Matthew 24:15-22, He spoke of the end of the 40 year probationary period (AD 70), saying, “When ye (the disciples) therefore shall see the abomination of desolation spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, whoso readeth, let him understand: Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains: Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house: Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes. And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days! But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day: For then shall be great tribulation (thlipsis), such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.”

Mark 13:14-20 says, “when ye (the disciples) shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains: And let him that is on the housetop not go down into the house, neither enter therein, to take any thing out of his house: And let him that is in the field not turn back again for to take up his garment. But woe to them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days! And pray ye that your flight be not in the winter. For in those days shall be tribulation (thlipsis), such as was not from the beginning of the creation which God created unto this time, neither shall be. And except that the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh should be saved: but for the elect's sake, whom he hath chosen, he hath shortened the days.”

This can only refer to the wrath of God being poured out on Jerusalem that destroyed the existing socio-political/cultural/religious system of Judaism, which was an offence to God. This people were decimated. Their religious system was effectively brought to nought. Nothing before AD 70, or after it, could compare in regard to the extent of its demise. Luke 21:20-24 reinforces that we are looking at AD 70.

Luke’s parallel passage, in Luke 21:20-24, records, “when ye (the disciples) shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh. Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto. For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled. But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! For there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people. And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.”

Hello!

Compare these passages that are expressly speaking about "the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not" that are clearly describing the coming of the Roman soldiers in AD70. To the objective Bible study, this is contextually, hermeneutically and historically watertight and crystal clear. There is no other conclusion here if you let the sacred text speak for itself. There is no other conclusion here if you do not have to justify false teaching. There is no other conclusion here when you compare Scripture with Scripture. It is as a result of this "sign," that God's people fled Jerusalem and skipped the destruction of the city at that time. This was their sign to go.

 

[WPM]

Again, winter symbolizes a season of hardship and barrenness—a time when nothing grows. Spiritually, it represents the absence of salvation or opportunity for new life in Christ. This is why Christ warned us to pray that our flight would not be in the winter: because once winter arrives, it is too late for planting or producing anything. The time for growth has ended, and the harvest has already come and gone. For all Elect has been secured (Revelation 7:3-4) . All Israel has been saved (Romans 11:26), In other words, the season of salvation will be over, and no further opportunity will remain. So it will be for a little season of no salvation before Christ returns to gather the remaining Elect who will be still alive and remain.

The wrath of God fell on Israel back in AD 70. They suffered great tribulation for their rejection of their Messiah. Their “house” was indeed left unto them “desolate.” They suffered “great distress in the land” and the “wrath” fell “upon this people” as predicted. They fell “by the edge of the sword” and were indeed “led away captive into all nations.” “Jerusalem” was “trodden down of the Gentiles” while “the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.”

The territory in view in these readings is undoubtedly natural Israel. Jerusalem is the city that is “compassed with armies” in this reading. Jerusalem is the city that will “be trodden down of the Gentiles.” Jerusalem’s inhabitants, and those that are in the immediate area of Judaea, are the people that are specifically instructed to escape “into the mountains.” All one had to do therefore to escape this tribulation was to leave the city and Judaea and “flee into the mountains.” This severely limits the geographical location under analysis and proves that it relates solely to the area surrounding Jerusalem rather than a global picture. Also, it was their house (the temple in Jerusalem) that was to be left “desolate.” The Lord succinctly said, “there shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.” This all occurred in AD 70.

Just prior to the Lord’s comments in Luke 21:20-24 re the impending destruction of Jerusalem, Christ warned the Jewish inhabitants of Jerusalem in Luke 19:42-44, “if thou hadst known, even thou, at least in this thy day, the things which belong unto thy peace! But now they are hid from thine eyes. For the days shall come upon thee, that thine enemies shall cast a trench about thee, and compass thee round, and keep thee in on every side, and shall lay thee even with the ground, and thy children within thee; and they shall not leave in thee one stone upon another; because thou knewest not the time of thy visitation.”

After this, Christ “went into the temple” (v 45), thus, once again, confirming the exact location and subject of His discourse. The temple would expressly be destroyed because the Jewish people knewest not the time of thy visitation.” They failed to recognise the Messiah in their midst. Christ was undoubtedly speaking of the destruction of Jerusalem of AD 70. This couldn’t possibly relate to an end-time persecuted Church, as God's elect would never be made subject to the wrath of God from the devil because they “knewest not the time of” their “visitation.”

No one surely disputes the fact that there weren't any stones left standing one upon another in the Jewish brick temple in Jerusalem after AD 70? History itself proves that this was the actual date when the temple was completely destroyed. Those who present the survival of parts of the outer perimeter walls of the temple complex (at the modern-day Wailing Wall) as proof that prophecies re the temple’s destruction were never totally physically fulfilled totally miss the focal point and import of the Lord's teaching. The Lord's counsel / prophesies were specifically directed toward the temple and its buildings – the center-point of Jewish false worship and the location where the offending animal sacrifices would continue after Calvary.

God would destroy the temple and its buildings to such a degree that these abominations would be brought to an immediate end. There would not be “one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down” (Matthew 24:2) of this once hallowed place. Any alternative emphasis upon the whole city or the perimeter walls of the temple complex is thus completely missing the import of the Lord's teaching. The walls of the temple mount are totally unconnected to what Christ was speaking of. They were never mentioned in Christ’s warnings. Anyway, no one would dispute the fact that the temple was flattened completely in AD 70. A Muslim Mosque now sits on the site as a permanent reminder of its desolation.

 

[TribulationSigns]

I agree the little season will certainly be part of great tribulation that has come, is coming, and shall continue to come against the Church. I also agree it will be the worst time for every saint still alive on this earth after time for building the Kingdom of God has expired.

Good.

You're making "great tribulation" "THE" great tribulation, but Scripture does not.

It did.

Everything Christ said would come to pass began to come to pass in the first century AD and shall continue and increase until Christ comes again.

Matthew 24:21 (KJV) For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

Mark 13:19 (KJV) For in those days shall be affliction, such as was not from the beginning of the creation which God created unto this time, neither shall be.

What does the CONTEXT surrounding verse 21 about the Great Tribulation refers to? Did it talk about the first century, honestly?

Yes, the AOD did occur during the first century.

No it did not. You are applying to AOD to the "wrong church" you believe was the temple of Old.

God judged Israel and found her guilty of these seven things that God hates. In the same way the Old Covenant nation committed these seven abominable sins physically against the Lord with the final cry being "crucify Him" assured their utter destruction, so too the Church on earth shall also be judged and found guilty of spiritually committing the same sins and abominations that brought the Old Covenant nation to ruin, that will bring the Church to spiritual ruin also.

Time out. When did the Old Covenant Church end?

The AOD is not seen with physical sight

Correct.

but understanding through the Spirit of Christ within when Churches, like the Temple of Old are no longer a house of prayer but have become a den of thieves.

Tell me, what is the abomination of desolation, exactly?

Matthew 24:15 (KJV) When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)

In vss. 16-20 Christ answers His disciples' questions regarding the utter destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple. These verses, confirmed through Luke are directed explicitly to Jewish people living in the first century that history proves came to pass in 70 AD.

No. Absolutely not. This has nothing to do with the Jews, the first century, or 70 A.D. By then, their temple was no longer truly holy, and their kingdom representative was taken at the Cross. The New Testament Church, under the New Covenant, begins only at the Cross—not in 70 A.D. or the first century. The Abomination of Desolation will stand in the holy place only on this side of the Cross which clearly is the church during the short season of Satan. Not roman soldiers!

Matthew 24:16-20 (KJV) Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains: Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house: Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes. And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days! But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:

The remainder of the chapter is again directed to disciples of Christ and speak of all the Church shall endure as the gospel of the Kingdom of God is proclaimed unto all the earth. Great tribulation against the disciples of Christ, the Church, and great distress, and wrath upon "this people" (the Jewish nation), as vengeance of God comes against the physical city and temple, all things written of the Jewish nation fulfilled.

Don’t you realize that the Old Covenant congregation already fell at the Cross, and their kingdom representative was already taken? Their holy place in 70 A.D. meant nothing—it had already been made unholy when the veil was torn at the Cross.

Matthew 24:21-22 (KJV) For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

You are mistaken to think the Great Tribulation began at the Cross, in 70 A.D., or in the first century. Sorry, but you have the timing of the Great Tribulation of Matthew 24 wrong.

Luke 21:22-24 (KJV) For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled. But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people. And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

Wrath upon this New Testament congregation! Do you even know who are the Gentiles here?

Look, according to Luke 21:25–26, the people will be afraid for the church because of what they see coming upon her. They fear for her when they witness the judgment of God against the Abomination of Desolation, as the powers of heaven are shaken and the church is removed from its place. Stars—representing messengers—fall away from the kingdom of heaven. The moon, symbolizing the church as the reflective light of the Sun, is turned to darkness. These are all terrifying events for the Elect, who stand far off in fear at what they see. As further illustrated in Revelation 18, these judgments bring awe and dread to those who witness them.

Revelation 18:8-10

• "Therefore shall her plagues come in one day, death, and mourning, and famine; and she shall be utterly burned with fire: for strong is the Lord God who judgeth her.
• And the kings of the earth, who have committed fornication and lived deliciously with her, shall bewail her, and lament for her, when they shall see the smoke of her burning,
• Standing afar off for the fear of her torment, saying, Alas, alas, that great city Babylon, that mighty city! for in one hour is thy judgment come."

The Elect stand far off, trembling at the great terrors that have come upon her, and we mourn for her—for what she once was and for the bankrupt, desolate shell she has become. It is as if we were forced to watch someone being tortured or tormented, powerless to intervene. This is the scenario before us: we stand in awe and fear of God’s judgment, while mourning the church that was once His precious bride. The final verses of this chapter in Luke confirm that this takes place after the fall, when we are commanded to flee.

Luke 21:21-27

• "Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.
• For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.
• But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people.
• And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.
• And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
• Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
• And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory."

The Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. The powers of the heaven shall be shaken where men's hearts failing them for fear. Who will have this fear? The Elect or the unbelievers? If the Elect, why? Think about it, does this even sounds like the first century to you, honestly?? Clearly NO! Because this is speaking about the fall of the New Testament Church and its repercussions on those around it. There is a certain Godly fear for Elect, for the great signs that are taking place and the judgment they witness.

Consider again: who are the Gentiles that will tread Jerusalem down? And what Jerusalem is the Lord referring to here? It cannot be the physical city in 70 A.D., because as a congregation of God, it had already fallen at the Cross. Therefore, applying these “days of vengeance” to the first-century Jews or the events of 70 A.D. is a misapplication. The prophecy is about the New Covenant Church and the judgment that comes upon it during the Little Season after the building of the church is finished.

 

[Nancy]

James 1:5 If any of you lacks wisdom, you should ask God, who gives generously to all without finding fault, and it will be given to you. 6 But when you ask, you must believe and not doubt, because the one who doubts is like a wave of the sea, blown and tossed by the wind. 7 That person should not expect to receive anything from the Lord.

Oh, that helped!
It is a given that we ask for these things from God, will you now say that I "just don't have enough faith"?

 

[rwb]

What does the CONTEXT surrounding verse 21 about the Great Tribulation refers to? Did it talk about the first century, honestly?

This is one of the problems I find with viewing this as something that shall come to pass in the distant future TS. I believe all that Christ says must be applicable for the disciples of Christ from the cross until Christ comes again. But Christ does say that some of the things that shall come would be limited to the Jewish nation.

No it did not. You are applying to AOD to the "wrong church" you believe was the temple of Old.

Abomination that makes desolate enters into places of worship when the people allow the things that God hates to have authority, making themselves to be as gods, and teaching doctrines of lies, turning the house of prayer into a den of thieves for the sake of money and power. This is how the Old Covenant Temple became an abomination that made it desolate in the eyes of God. And it is also how New Covenant Churches also become an abomination unto God, because true Light of God and Life from the Spirit is no longer found there.

The Old Covenant ended when Christ came to earth a man with the spiritual Kingdom of God. But that would not be fully understood by the disciples of Christ until the Holy Spirit came into them, telling them to remember, and teaching them the time to flee from the Old to the New (mountains; spiritually, Mt Zion) was when the Jewish nation crucified our Lord. Before the vengeance of God's wrath brought the Old Covenant nation to ruin through the Roman Army, the disciples after receiving power from the Spirit in them at Pentecost had time to not only understand why they must flee, but also when they saw the army approaching would be the last opportunity for them to leave the Old behind and fully embrace the New Covenant through the blood of Christ. Christ had instructed them to stay in the city until they had received power from on high through the Spirit He would send.

Luke 24:6-8 (KJV) He is not here, but is risen: remember how he spake unto you when he was yet in Galilee, Saying, The Son of man must be delivered into the hands of sinful men, and be crucified, and the third day rise again. And they remembered his words,

John 14:26 (KJV) But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

John 16:7-8 (KJV) Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:

Luke 24:49 (KJV) And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high.

No. Absolutely not. This has nothing to do with the Jews, the first century, or 70 A.D. By then, their temple was no longer truly holy, and their kingdom representative was taken at the Cross. The New Testament Church, under the New Covenant, begins only at the Cross—not in 70 A.D. or the first century. The Abomination of Desolation will stand in the holy place only on this side of the Cross which clearly is the church during the short season of Satan. Not roman soldiers!

Why would Christ speak saying these things would come upon "this people" if the words He spoke of abomination making desolate had nothing to do with them? I agree the Temple was no longer the Holy place even before the cross. The fact that it had become an abomination unto God was made clear when Christ said to them, "Behold, your house is left unto you desolate." Again, and again Christ spoke to the nation in parables telling them what would become of those who continue to cling to the Old Covenant and refuse to have Christ rule over them.

Matthew 21:41-45 (KJV) They say unto him, He will miserably destroy those wicked men, and will let out his vineyard unto other husbandmen, which shall render him the fruits in their seasons. Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes? Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof. And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder. And when the chief priests and Pharisees had heard his parables, they perceived that he spake of them.

Just as the Holy Place of Old brought the vengeance of God's wrath upon THEMSELVES, so too the Holy Place today (Church) shall bring the same wrath of God upon THEMSELVES when the churches willfully choose money and power over love and truth. God does not pour out wrath upon His people! Those believing themselves to be His people but are not shall cause the wrath of God to fall upon themselves. That's why Christ warned His disciples of the impending doom that was to come, telling them well in advance to depart from the city, that they would remain alive to continue on the mission given them from Christ to proclaim the gospel of the Kingdom of God unto all the nations of the world that the spiritual Kingdom of God in heaven would be built.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

My fellow brothers and sisters in Christ Jesus. Greetings, may mercy, grace and peace be ever upon you.

I've known the Lord Jesus for 35 years, He is my Life and my Love.
I was raised Southern Baptist and was instructed in the futurist view of eschatology since as far back as I can remember. Around the time the Spirit of Christ came into my heart, before or after I cannot be certain, I came to the understanding that at least some of what I had been taught was in error, particularly the pre-trib rapture.

Over the course of my Christian walk I never gave it much more thought. Prophecy was never my thing, but I rather preferred to spend my time in the word focusing on how to live the Christian life. Which by no means should imply that I have ever done so perfectly.

I'm much older now, and having grown much closer to Christ in my later years, have begun to look more deeply into those things which previously held little interest for me.

One of those things is eschatology. When surfing the forums and interacting with other believers, it has occurred to me that of all the views put forth from the various camps, there seem to be only four major schools of thought, and the arguments between the adherents of each particular view are endless.

Conspicuously absent from any discussion of eschatology is the idea that we may actually be in the Little Season.

As I said, I never had much interest in end times prophecies or projections, much less debate on what I see as peripheral issues. So when I did begin to look into these things more deeply, I was not coming from a place of any preconceived notions, inherent bias, or theological indoctrinations.
This provided me with the capacity to evaluate the texts with clear eyes and a fresh perspective

For the sake of total transparency, I am completely opposed to any eschatological framework that has its roots in dispensational theology, as I am absolutely convinced that so called christian Zionism is the prime source of much of the evil that presently plagues our world, and perhaps the very last days deception that the scriptures warn about, at the least, it plays a significant role.

Neither at this time am I open to any discussion of the amillenial view, as I am not inclined to argue over the plainly stated words of Holy Scriptures.

"And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years."

If that angers or offends some of you, so be it, I make no concessions and will offer no apologies. I do hope that you may still accept me as your brother in Christ, but whichever path you take, that of love or condemnation, please know that I love you all very much, and you are ever in my prayers.

Below is the best explanation I have found thus far of what it is that my several years of deeper study have led me to conclude about the time in which we now live. And yet, I must admit, it is by no means a comprehensive treatment of the subject matter, nor could it ever be, since if it is in fact the correct view, the level of deception in which we now find ourselves makes absolute certainty an utter impossibility.
Nevertheless, it is the best explanation in regards to the available evidence, and the one that places the clearly spoken words of scripture in the clearest possible light. If one can permit themselves to view the words of Christ and His Apostles honestly, absent the filter of various preloaded belief systems, the truth should present itself with crystal clarity. I know that's a big IF, but its worth a try.

The first video makes the scriptural case for Little Season Eschatology. The second presents a well researched timeline in support of the conclusions made in video one.

If this thread gains any traction at all, it is sure to be a contentious conversation. My sincere hope and prayer is that we can treat one another with the love and respect that should be the norm for all who name the name of Christ.

Enough said. I leave this here for your prayerful consideration.

I have a different perspective on the little season.
What the little season is(in my opinion),
1 Peter 4:12 Beloved, think it not strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you, as though some strange thing happened unto you:

1 Peter 1:6-7 Wherein you greatly rejoice, though now for a season, if need be, you are in heaviness through manifold temptations: [7] That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perishes, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:
—though now you —for a season—if needed—you are In heaviness of tempted as in the wilderness …
In the Revelation of Jesus Christ …the little season is needful in loose for a little season …so that your brethren die as others
Revelation 6:11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

Until your fellow brethren should be killed as they were …we teach this is murder but what if it’s death and crucified with Christ —so that when He appears it (the robe” of the New man? Which is honor and glory. All those fruits of the Spirit of God that make the robe or armor one puts on. To have passed from death to life…what is the little season that should be fulfilled among the body of Christ?

So it can be some are in the little season. “If need be” so they can be crucified in Christ to be found not having their own righteousness but the righteousness that comes from God. Not having the peace men give, but the peace God gives.

1) the little season is shown in Job where the enemy asks to touch him. Saying let me try job. Same with Peter who Jesus told satan wants to have you to try you, to sift you as wheat. Peter satan wants to be loosed for a little season …I prayed for you so that when you return “strengthen your brothers”

2. All spoke of as don’t think it’s strange …rest for the little season until your brothers is made perfect also in Him. If it’s needful for a little season. IS GOD evil to loose the enemy for your destruction when “I come not to destroy” but to save. The enemy is loosed so that …the flesh may be destroyed yet the spirit saved-/you may be prepared for His Glory. Like Job who was restored

 

[TribulationSigns]

This is one of the problems I find with viewing this as something that shall come to pass in the distant future TS. I believe all that Christ says must be applicable for the disciples of Christ from the cross until Christ comes again. But Christ does say that some of the things that shall come would be limited to the Jewish nation.

No. Its impossible if you read the context correctly. Let start with Matthew 24:1-2.

Mat 24:1-2

• And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.
• And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

The buildings were used of Christ as a token or "type" of the true. As were the jars of purifying water, the trips to Jerusalem three times a year, ablutions, circumcision, bread, the sacrifices, etc., etc. Jesus gave the disciples literal bread and wine, but that is not what He was referring to when he spake of it, it was to His body and blood. There is a spiritual and there is a literal/physical. The Jewish people could not get past the physical, therefore to this day they think they can be saved by good works, and that the Messiah hasn't yet come, and that the physical city Jerusalem is a Holy City and the Temple and wailing wall a Holy place. Because like many today, they miss the whole point!

As for the Temple building, would that be the very same Holy Temple that Jesus threw the Buyers and Sellers out of, and when the Jews asked Him for a Sign demonstrating He had the power to do this? Yes, Christ responded, "Destroy THIS Temple and in three days I will raise it up?" Despite the fact that He had just thrown the merchants out of "that" literal Temple Building, was that the one He was talking about? ...or was the one Christ was talking about the spiritual temple of His body, DESPITE what they would "assume" from His Words?

The fact is, those who had no spiritual discernment thought the very same way as those without spiritual insights, Premillennialist leanings, or Dispensationalist theology, or Preterism theology think today. Like so many others, they "automatically" assumed that Christ must be talking about the physical Temple and marveled how he could say such a thing seeing as it took forty-six years to build. Who could blame them for thinking literal temple? After all He had just thrown the buyers and Sellers out of it and this is what they were questioning Him about. But nevertheless, despite their "assumptions" Christ was not talking about the literal Temple there, or the literal building, He was speaking spiritually about them killing Him. He was the Temple that they would destroy, and which He would raise up in three days. Selah!

The Old Testament congregation as the builders (stones) of the temple, fell just as you recently quoted:

Mat 21:42-45
(42) Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?
(43) Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.
(44) And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder.
(45) And when the chief priests and Pharisees had heard his parables, they perceived that he spake of them.

The falling of the stones symbolizes that the kingdom was taken from them and given to another — fulfilled within three days. The Old Covenant had already ended when Christ spoke and went to the Cross; this is not a reference to A.D. 70. When the disciples asked Christ about the signs of His coming, they were clearly asking about the end time, not the first century or A.D. 70. The remainder of the chapter addresses Christ’s New Testament congregation in the end time, when Satan is loosed for a short season — not the first-century Old Covenant situation, as you suggest. And here is another reason why your interpretation is incorrect:

Mat 24:5-7

• For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
• And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
• For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.

Mat 24:11-13

• And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
• And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
• But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Mat 24:15-16

• When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)
• Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

Mat 24:21-24

• For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
• And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
• Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
• For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

You need to think carefully about what false prophets and false Christs have to do with the Old Testament temple. They were not responsible for bringing any “abomination” into the literal Jewish temple in 70 A.D. You have the wrong temple. These false prophets and christs are bringing abominations into the temple to which Christ gave the kingdom representation three days after the fall of Old Covenant. That is what makes the temple holy since the Cross.

Notice Christ said, “if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not. For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets…” Ask yourself: did Christ speak of false prophets and false Christs in connection with the Old Testament temple? Of course not! He is speaking of the end time or short season, where many try to invite you to their fallen church claiming that Christ’s power is there. And Christ says, “believe it not.”

This has NOTHING to do with the Old Testament covenant or the Old Testament temple? That view completely misses the point, hence the preterism doctrine of all sorts are false. The Old Covenant had already ended when Christ spoke in Matthew 24:1–2. He was not predicting the fall of the literal Jewish temple in 70 A.D. That is a spiritually blind interpretation. Christ was speaking of His Holy New Testament temple—His congregation— which has become desolate in the end where the real spiritual battle and abomination take place, spoke of by Daniel the prophet! That is IF "whoso readeth, let him understand." It is not what you think what holy place is on the surface.

 

[rwb]

No. Its impossible if you read the context correctly. Let start with Matthew 24:1-2.

Mat 24:1-2

• And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.
• And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

The buildings were used of Christ as a token or "type" of the true. As were the jars of purifying water, the trips to Jerusalem three times a year, ablutions, circumcision, bread, the sacrifices, etc., etc. Jesus gave the disciples literal bread and wine, but that is not what He was referring to when he spake of it, it was to His body and blood. There is a spiritual and there is a literal/physical. The Jewish people could not get past the physical, therefore to this day they think they can be saved by good works, and that the Messiah hasn't yet come, and that the physical city Jerusalem is a Holy City and the Temple and wailing wall a Holy place. Because like many today, they miss the whole point!

This is true, and I agree! Christ used the physical Temple to illustrate a spiritual truth. Just as He did when He spoke to them in parables. When the physical body of Christ was crucified, the AOD was spiritually fulfilled as the prophet Daniel foretells. By crucifying Christ both the city and the Temple forever ceased to be Holy unto God. The Kingdom of God was taken from the unbelieving Jews, and the Church spiritually speaking became the Holy place of God, spiritually representing the Kingdom of God in heaven on this earth.

1 Peter 2:9-10 (KJV) But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light: Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.

Christ was not talking about the literal Temple there, or the literal building, He was speaking spiritually about them killing Him. He was the Temple that they would destroy, and which He would raise up in three days.

Christ spoke of spiritual fulfillment as well as physical fulfillment in answer to the questions His disciples asked. Spiritual fulfillment came by way of crucifixion and resurrection, and literal/physical fulfillment came around 40 years later when God sent the Roman Army to utterly destroy the literal/physical city and Temple of Old just as Christ said they would be.

Most of the words Christ spoke to His disciples on the Mount of Olives, I agree with you, are of things (great tribulation) that would come against the building of the spiritual Kingdom of God in heaven as the Church proclaims the gospel unto all the nations of the world. These following verses are warnings to the Church (faithful saints) from the first century AD until Christ comes again. The things written here cannot be limited to any one century, because they are things that have been, are, and shall be as long as this age for proclaiming the gospel of the Kingdom of God in heaven continues.

Matthew 24:4-15 (KJV) And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you. For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many. And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet. For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places. All these are the beginning of sorrows. Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake. And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another. And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many. And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come. When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)

Then Christ specifically speaks to His Jewish disciples of things that shall physically come exclusively to them, and He also speaks of things that shall be spiritually fulfilled. According to historical proof the words of this prophesy were physically fulfilled in 70 AD. This was a time of great tribulation spiritually for the disciples of Christ, and a time of vengeance and the wrath of God for unbelieving Jews.

Matthew 24:16-21 (KJV) Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains: Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house: Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes. And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days! But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day: For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

Luke 19:42-44 (KJV) Saying, If thou hadst known, even thou, at least in this thy day, the things which belong unto thy peace! but now they are hid from thine eyes. For the days shall come upon thee, that thine enemies shall cast a trench about thee, and compass thee round, and keep thee in on every side, And shall lay thee even with the ground, and thy children within thee; and they shall not leave in thee one stone upon another; because thou knewest not the time of thy visitation.

Luke 21:20-22 (KJV) And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh. Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto. For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.

 

[Archie]

 

[WPM]

I do not watch these outside videos. What is your argument? You do not seem to be able to convincingly relay that.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Oh, that helped!
It is a given that we ask for these things from God, will you now say that I "just don't have enough faith"?

I was not meaning to offend you. You were expressing frustration at not knowing what to believe about all of this because of all of the various interpretations, so I showed you the key to gaining understanding. No reason for you to be offended.

 

[Archie]

"Do not be rash with your mouth,
And let not your heart utter anything hastily before God.
For God is in heaven, and you on earth;
Therefore let your words be few.
For a dream comes through much activity,
And a fool’s voice is known by his many words."
Ecclesiastes 5

"Whoso keepeth his mouth and his tongue keepeth his soul from troubles."
Proverbs 21

"Then Job answered Yahweh and said,
“Behold, I am insignificant; what can I respond to You?
I place my hand over my mouth.
Once I have spoken, and I will not answer;
Even twice, and I will add nothing more.”
Job 40

"If anyone speaks, let him speak as the oracles of God. If anyone ministers, let him do it as with the ability which God supplies, that in all things God may be glorified through Jesus Christ, to whom belong the glory and the dominion forever and ever. Amen."
1 Peter 4

"..the end of all things is at hand"
1 Peter 4

"You too be patient; strengthen your hearts, for the coming of the Lord is near."
James 5

"Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom."
Matthew 16

"Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled."
Matthew 24

"Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven."
Matthew 26

"Blessed is he who reads and those who hear the words of the prophecy, and heed the things which are written in it; for the time is near."
Revelation 1

The Time Is Near​

Then he said to me, “These words are faithful and true.” And the Lord God of the holy prophets sent His angel to show His servants the things which must shortly take place.

“Behold, I am coming quickly! Blessed is he who keeps the words of the prophecy of this book..."

"...And he said to me, “Do not seal the words of the prophecy of this book, for the time is at hand..."

"...And behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give to every one according to his work..."

A Warning​

"...For I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book; and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

I Am Coming Quickly​

He who testifies to these things says, “Surely I am coming quickly.”
Revelation 22

"Jesus answered and said unto them, Though I bear record of myself, yet my record is true: for I know whence I came, and whither I go; but ye cannot tell whence I come, and whither I go. Ye judge after the flesh; I judge no man. And yet if I judge, my judgment is true: for I am not alone, but I and the Father that sent me. It is also written in your law, that the testimony of two men is true. I am one that bear witness of myself, and the Father that sent me beareth witness of me..."

"...Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word. Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it. And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not. Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me? He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God."
John 8

"You say that He didn't mean, what He was plainly saying, my friend, like the Pharisee, you're an educated fool"
John Michael Talbot.

 

[WPM]

"Do not be rash with your mouth,
And let not your heart utter anything hastily before God.
For God is in heaven, and you on earth;
Therefore let your words be few.
For a dream comes through much activity,
And a fool’s voice is known by his many words."
Ecclesiastes 5

"Whoso keepeth his mouth and his tongue keepeth his soul from troubles."
Proverbs 21

"Then Job answered Yahweh and said,
“Behold, I am insignificant; what can I respond to You?
I place my hand over my mouth.
Once I have spoken, and I will not answer;
Even twice, and I will add nothing more.”
Job 40

"If anyone speaks, let him speak as the oracles of God. If anyone ministers, let him do it as with the ability which God supplies, that in all things God may be glorified through Jesus Christ, to whom belong the glory and the dominion forever and ever. Amen."
1 Peter 4

"..the end of all things is at hand"
1 Peter 4

"You too be patient; strengthen your hearts, for the coming of the Lord is near."
James 5

"Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom."
Matthew 16

"Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled."
Matthew 24

"Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven."
Matthew 26

"Blessed is he who reads and those who hear the words of the prophecy, and heed the things which are written in it; for the time is near."
Revelation 1

The Time Is Near​

Then he said to me, “These words are faithful and true.” And the Lord God of the holy prophets sent His angel to show His servants the things which must shortly take place.

“Behold, I am coming quickly! Blessed is he who keeps the words of the prophecy of this book..."

"...And he said to me, “Do not seal the words of the prophecy of this book, for the time is at hand..."

"...And behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give to every one according to his work..."

A Warning​

"...For I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book; and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

I Am Coming Quickly​

He who testifies to these things says, “Surely I am coming quickly.”
Revelation 22

"Jesus answered and said unto them, Though I bear record of myself, yet my record is true: for I know whence I came, and whither I go; but ye cannot tell whence I come, and whither I go. Ye judge after the flesh; I judge no man. And yet if I judge, my judgment is true: for I am not alone, but I and the Father that sent me. It is also written in your law, that the testimony of two men is true. I am one that bear witness of myself, and the Father that sent me beareth witness of me..."

"...Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word. Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it. And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not. Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me? He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God."
John 8

"You say that He didn't mean, what He was plainly saying, my friend, like the Pharisee, you're an educated fool"
John Michael Talbot.

So, is 40 years quickly in your opinion?

 

[Archie]

2 Peter 3:8-9
But, beloved, be not ignorant -- of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to usward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Revelation 1:18
I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive forevermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.

Revelation 20:1-3
And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

Luke 19:42
If thou hadst known, even thou, at least in this thy day, the things which belong unto thy peace! but now they are hid from thine eyes. For the days shall come upon thee, that thine enemies shall cast a trench about thee, and compass thee round, and keep thee in on every side, And shall lay thee even with the ground, and thy children within thee; and they shall not leave in thee one stone upon another; because thou knewest not the time of thy visitation.

Matthew 23:34-36
Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city:
That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zechariah son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.
Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.

Mark 8:38 - 9:1
Whosoever therefore shall be ashamed of me and of my words in this adulterous and sinful generation; of him also shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he cometh in the glory of his Father with the holy angels.
And he said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That there be some of them that stand here, which shall not taste of death, till they have seen the kingdom of God come with power.

Mark 14:61
Again the high priest asked him, and said unto him, Art thou the Christ, the Son of the Blessed?
And Jesus said, I am: and ye shall see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.