Let's examine Revelation 20:4 yet again.

[Davidpt]

A bottomless pit is a spiritual condition that you can’t get out of

Yet the following contradicts that.

and after that he must be loosed a little season---And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison(thus shall be loosed out of the bottomless pit)

 

[Marty fox]

@Marty fox

The Word of God vs
The words of Satan.

The Word of God is omnipotent (John 1:1-4), omniscient and by the Spirit, omnipresent. Life is in Him (John 1:4).

Satan is none of those things. He is not "the opposite of God" just because he sets himself up in opposition to God.

Nor do his words have any power until his words are believed by human beings. Were his words not believed, he would have no power at all - ask Adam and Eve.

Believe me, there are many human beings who have continued to believe his words since the resurrection and ascension of Christ, till now. That's why Jesus called Satan "the ruler of this world"; and Paul called him "the prince of the power of the air who works in the sons of disobedience" (Ephesians 2:2), who we are told will give the beast and false prophet his seat, power and great authority (Revelation Chapter 13).

That's why the saints are warned to be weary of his wiles and to resist him, and to put on the full armor of God because "we do not wrestle against flesh and blood" (John 12:31; 1 Peter 5:8-9; Ephesians 6:11-12; Revelation 2:9-10 & Revelation 2:13; 1 Thessalonians 2:18; James 4:7 ).

Revelation Chapters 12-13 portray this current status quo as spanning the entire present Age and culminating in the beast's war against the saints in Revelation Chapter 13 (see Revelation 13:7).

Ephesians 2:2 tells us about Satan's influence over the societies of this world, this Age. So how can he be bound from deceiving the nations? Where is this "inability" of Satan to deceive the nations through his words which set themselves up in opposition to the Word of God that you speak of? He has that ability for as long as human beings give his lies that power by rejecting the Word of God and believing Satan's lies - until God binds him and throws him into the abyss and sets a seal on him.

Also, why do you believe Satan is the opposite of God in power and ability so that he would need to be bound in order for the Holy Spirit's power to be able to work in the hearts and minds of human beings calling them to salvation in Christ through the gospel? Isn't that assertion blasphemous? Satan has no power to stop the works of God and the work of the Holy Spirit calling individuals to salvation in Christ.

I don’t believe that satan is the opposite of God in power or needs to be bound to stop the power of God. I never said that.

What the bible says is that satan deceives people on who exactly Jesus is and the gospel reveals that Jesus is God, thus the power of the gospel (the great chain that binds satan) prevents satan by deceiving the people who choose to believe in Jesus

 

[David in NJ]

You are most welcome.

Though, You have made several claims towards me without providing explanations nor evidence to back those claims. So there is nothing for me to respond to specifically, therefore, of course my response will be generic.

Secondly, the evidence is God words = for it is impossible for God to lie

If you perceive i am making a claim without evidence, just be specific and i will respond to your specific request = thank you

 

[David in NJ]

Yet the following contradicts that.

and after that he must be loosed a little season---And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison(thus shall be loosed out of the bottomless pit)

@Marty fox @Davidpt

Since the prison/pit is in fact bottomless, there is only one way out, which is UP

Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, having the key to the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
He laid hold of the dragon, that serpent of old, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years;
and he cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up/Cover on Top = unable to speak/communicate with anyone,
and set a seal OVER him = the Cover/Top has a Seal = same as Rev 5:1-3

And I saw in the right hand of Him who sat on the throne a scroll written inside and on the back, sealed with seven seals.
Then I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, “Who is worthy to open the scroll and to loose its seals?”
And no one in heaven or on the earth or under the earth was able to open the scroll, or to look at it.

 

[Marty fox]

bottomless means = can NEVER get out

perceive the implications of "bottomless"

Yes until he’s released

 

[Marty fox]

Satan is not bound in prison today and has never been placed in the prison of Rev 20:1-3 = but soon he will

Satan does not have authority over us as we are in CHRIST.

#1 - This does not mean that there is no battle and spiritual warfare against satan and his fallen angels = 2 Corinthians 10:4

#2 - Currently, Satan remains the "god of this world/Age" and as such he can and does attack blood washed saints of GOD

Matthew 10:28
Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Instead, fear the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.

Revelation 2:8-10
These things says the First and the Last, who was dead, and came to life: 9“I know your works, tribulation, and poverty (but you are rich); and I know the blasphemy of those who say they are Jews and are not, but are a synagogue of Satan. 10Do not fear any of those things which you are about to suffer. Indeed, the devil is about to throw some of you into prison, that you may be tested, and you will have tribulation ten days. Be faithful until death, and I will give you the crown of life.

Daniel 7:25
He shall speak pompous words against the Most High, Shall persecute the saints of the Most High, And shall intend to change times and law. Then the saints shall be given into his hand For a time and times and half a time.

I never said that satan has authority over the saints

Why do you assume soon?

 

[Marty fox]

Yet the following contradicts that.

and after that he must be loosed a little season---And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison(thus shall be loosed out of the bottomless pit)

Yes individually when the gospel is distorted and people conform

 

[David in NJ]

I never said that satan has authority over the saints

Then if the binding is literal, how come satan has to be bound for the saints to reign with Jesus? That gives satan power over the saints

Power = Authority

Remember when you said that the "bottomless pit" pertains to the unforgivable sin???

Since satan is loosed from there = do you concur that he was forgiven? and thus set free

 

[Davidpt]

bottomless means = can NEVER get out

perceive the implications of "bottomless"

A bottomless pit is a spiritual condition that you can’t get out of there’s no repentance the unforgivable sin = And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison = contradiction = the unforgivable sin is forgivable, thus forgiven = yet another contradiction

That aside. Unless the bottomless pit is also the LOF, the LOF is the only place one can never get out of after having been cast into.

 

[David in NJ]

A bottomless pit is a spiritual condition that you can’t get out of there’s no repentance the unforgivable sin = And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison = contradiction = the unforgivable sin is forgivable, thus forgiven = yet another contradiction

exactly

 

[Marty fox]

Power = Authority

Remember when you said that the "bottomless pit" pertains to the unforgivable sin???

Since satan is loosed from there = do you concur that he was forgiven? and thus set free

No obviously not I already said that distorting, rejecting the conforming of the gospel in each individual life is what sets satan free in peoples lives thus he deceives them.

Notice that the binding is only from satan deceiving not satan bound by doing any evil? That means something

 

[Davidpt]

Yes individually when the gospel is distorted and people conform

Notice something here in Revelation 20 that the following 4 passages have in common, that being what I underlined in all four.

Revelation 20:3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

Revelation 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Revelation 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.


Revelation 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Why would the latter 3 be meaning a literal place, but that the first one wouldn't be? Or maybe you don't even believe the LOF is a literal place? Therefore, you would at least be remaining consistent throughout, meaning no one is being cast into a literal place anywhere in those 4 verses.

 

[David in NJ]

No obviously not I already said that distorting, rejecting the conforming of the gospel in each individual life is what sets satan free in peoples lives thus he deceives them.

Notice that the binding is only from satan deceiving not satan bound by doing any evil? That means something

Satan cannot decieve anyone AFTER he is thrown in prison/Rev 20:1-3

Rev 20:3 = And he threw satan into the Abyss, shut it, and sealed it over him, so that he could not deceive the nations until the thousand years were complete

Brother Mary fox = this is grade school reading = Matthew 18:1-5

Notice that the binding is only from satan deceiving not satan bound by doing any evil?

Big No-No Marty = you just added to God's words what HE never said
Even worse is that by adding to God's words you have created a false teaching /doctrine!!!

Every word of God is flawless;
He is a shield to those who take refuge in Him.
Do not add to His words,
lest He rebuke you and prove you a liar.

 

[Marty fox]

Notice something here in Revelation 20 that the following 4 passages have in common, that being what I underlined in all four.

Revelation 20:3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

Revelation 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Revelation 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.


Revelation 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Why would the latter 3 be meaning a literal place, but that the first one wouldn't be? Or maybe you don't even believe the LOF is a literal place? Therefore, you would at least be remaining consistent throughout, meaning no one is being cast into a literal place anywhere in those 4 verses.

No I don’t believe in a literal lake of fire it’s more of a symbolic description of eternal torment for what they have done, rejecting Jesus.

Nobody not entering heaven is going think that God gave them a bad deal they will know that it was their fault and their choice it’s what they do not what God does

 

[Marty fox]

Satan cannot decieve anyone AFTER he is thrown in prison/Rev 20:1-3

Rev 20:3 = And he threw satan into the Abyss, shut it, and sealed it over him, so that he could not deceive the nations until the thousand years were complete

Brother Mary fox = this is grade school reading = Matthew 18:1-5


Big No-No Marty = you just added to God's words what HE never said
Even worse is that by adding to God's words you have created a false teaching /doctrine!!!

Every word of God is flawless;
He is a shield to those who take refuge in Him.
Do not add to His words,
lest He rebuke you and prove you a liar.

If satan can’t deceive anyone after he is thrown into prison then how come he does after he is released?

Why would he be re leastEd by God? The bible doesn’t say that God or the angel releases him does it? It says that the angel binds him with the great chain but not releases him, how come? What then exactly is the releasing?


I didn’t add anything to the scriptures it clearly only says below that satan is bound by deceiving the nations

Revelation 20
3 He threw him into the Abyss, and locked and sealed it over him, to keep him from deceiving the nations anymore until the thousand years were ended. After that, he must be set free for a short time.

 

[David in NJ]

If satan can’t deceive anyone after he is thrown into prison then how come he does after he is released?

Why would he be re leastEd by God? The bible doesn’t say that God or the angel releases him does it? It says that the angel binds him with the great chain but not releases him, how come? What then exactly is the releasing?


I didn’t add anything to the scriptures it clearly only says below that satan is bound by deceiving the nations

Revelation 20
3 He threw him into the Abyss, and locked and sealed it over him, to keep him from deceiving the nations anymore until the thousand years were ended. After that, he must be set free for a short time.

Notice that the binding is only from satan deceiving not satan bound by doing any evil? That means something

This statement above is the one where i said you added your own words.

Since an angel was assigned to locking up satan =HIGHLY likely that the same angel is assigned to loosing satan as well

Other then that is speculation EXCEPT that it is only done thru the Will of God

SHALOM Brother Marty

 

[ewq1938]

So then does Jesus reign because satan is bound?

Bound and imprisoned, not just bound as Amill suggests.


No, he reigns because his Father wants him to reign, and he only reigns over the nations for a limited time.

 

[ewq1938]

It is described as a bottomless pit which if literal is impossible that would be a hole.

Why would you think such a thing is impossible for God to create and use against satan etc?

 

[Davidpt]

No I don’t believe in a literal lake of fire it’s more of a symbolic description of eternal torment for what they have done, rejecting Jesus.

Nobody not entering heaven is going think that God gave them a bad deal they will know that it was their fault and their choice it’s what they do not what God does

You don't deny that the lost are also raised bodily, right?

Assuming you don't deny that, and that you already indicated the LOF is not a place, where do you see all these billions of lost resurrected bodies residing after they have been judged and sentenced, and how do they get to this place that is not a real place since you indicated that the LOF is not a real place, not a real location? Yet they have to dwell somewhere don't they? Initially they are standing among the dead at the great white throne judgment. They are not going to be standing there forever, though. No way can being cast into the LOF equal them still standing among the dead at the great white throne judgment. Therefore, they are sent to another place except your position is that the LOF is not an actual place.

 

[Marty fox]

This statement above is the one where i said you added your own words.

Since an angel was assigned to locking up satan =HIGHLY likely that the same angel is assigned to loosing satan as well

Other then that is speculation EXCEPT that it is only done thru the Will of God

SHALOM Brother Marty

You don't deny that the lost are also raised bodily, right?

Assuming you don't deny that, and that you already indicated the LOF is not a place, where do you see all these billions of lost resurrected bodies residing after they have been judged and sentenced, and how do they get to this place that is not a real place since you indicated that the LOF is not a real place, not a real location? Yet they have to dwell somewhere don't they? Initially they are standing among the dead at the great white throne judgment. They are not going to be standing there forever, though. No way can being cast into the LOF equal them still standing among the dead at the great white throne judgment. Therefore, they are sent to another place except your position is that the LOF is not an actual place.

I don,t known what place but they don’t dwell with the Father like we do that’s the point

Revelation is John conveying a message to millions of people over thousands of years with many different cultures and languages he has to do it in a way that we all understand his points not details