Is it possible to lose salvation?
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Christian Soldier
Well-Known Member
LOL
I don't want or need your house, your cars and won't be learning to ride a bike any time soon.
However, the reason you'd have to hand them over is because you apparently do not understand what a CONDITION is.
There are CONDITIONS to being saved forever.
A CONDITION is a requirement needed in order to achieve something...
a CONDITION will have an effect on the outcome of something.
One of the conditions to eternal security is that
WE MUST ENDURE TO THE END.
I have provided scripture - which you do not accept.
Another CONDITION is that we must not FALL AWAY.
I have provided scripture - which you do not accept.
There are other CONDITIONS:
For example: WE MUST OBEY GOD.
John 3:36
36 "He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him."
More scripture you will most probably deny.
Jesus said that if you deny HIM,
HE will deny you.
You seem to deny what Jesus taught...
not good.
2 Timothy 2:12
12 If we endure, we will also reign with Him; If we deny Him, He also will deny us;
Please note: It states we MUST ENDURE...so many verses about enduring to the end.
and
We must NOT DENY HIM.
If we don't obey Jesus,,,we are denying HIM and His teachings.
And I'll repost my other verses which are very clear: Post 4597
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We must ENDURE if we are to be saved:
JESUS said:
Matthew 24:13
13But the one who endures to the end will be saved.
Revelation 2:10
10...and for ten days you will have tribulation. Be faithful unto death, and I will give you the crown of life.
Paul said:
Hebrews 3:6
6...And we are his house, if indeed we hold fast our confidence ...
Hebrews 3:14
14For we have come to share in Christ, if indeed we hold our original confidence firm to the end.
Colossiand 1:22-23
22 yet He has now reconciled you in His fleshly body through death, in order to present you before Him holy and blameless and beyond reproach -
23 if indeed you continue in the faith firmly established and steadfast,
We can be led astray:
JESUS said:
Matthew 24:51
51“See that no one leads you astray. For many will come in my name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and they will lead many astray. ...
Revelation 2:5
5 'Therefore remember from where you have fallen, and repent and do the deeds you did at first; or else I am coming to you and will remove your lampstand out of its place -unless * you repent.
Mark 3:15
15And Jesus began to say to them, “See that no one leads you astray.
Paul said:
Hebrews 13:9
9Do not be led away by diverse and strange teachings,
1 Timothy 4:1
1Now the Spirit expressly says that in later times some will depart from the faith
Galatians 6.1
1Brothers, if anyone is caught in any transgression, you who are spiritual should restore him in a spirit of gentleness. Keep watch on yourself, lest you too be tempted.
And there are many more...
but some refuse to read and adhere to the entire NT.
Salvation can be lost...
And the NT states this very clearly.
Well even if Paul did not say it there are several other verses that say this to me and one is John 15:1-10
1 “I am the true vine, and my Father is the vine grower. 2. He takes away every branch in me that does not bear fruit, and every one that does he prunes so that it bears more fruit.... 4. Remain in me, as I remain in you. Just as a branch cannot bear fruit on its own unless it remains on the vine, so neither can you unless you remain in me. 5.I am the vine, you are the branches. Whoever remains in me and I in him will bear much fruit, because without me you can do nothing. 6.Anyone who does not remain in me will be thrown out like a branch and wither; people will gather them and throw them into a fire and they will be burned. 7.If you remain in me and my words remain in you, ask for whatever you want and it will be done for you.... 9.As the Father loves me, so I also love you. Remain in my love. 10. If you keep my commandments, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father’s commandments and remain in his love."
We must remain in Him. He never said that these were never saved to begin with...but that they were in Him at one time but bore no fruit.
Why does Satan still tempt Christians if we cannot lose our salvation?
Living in willful sin.
The ones that fell on stony ground had faith but then fell away?
We cannot please God without faith. If we forget how we were once on fire for Jesus and become luke- warm...we will be spued out of His mouth. To keep salvation IMO, you need to keep the faith.
Rev 3:5 "He who overcomes, I will not blot his name out of the Book of Life." seems one can be blotted out.
The 5 foolish virgins?
James 5:19-20
"19 Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back, 20 let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins."
Revelation 2:5
"Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent."
Ezekiel 18:24
"But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die."
These are just some verses that say we can lose our salvation, not just rewards. Until and unless the Spirit open my eyes to this subject, this is what I now believe.
People gave so many of these verses already, do you Believe Jesus and what he said? if yes then read the following, Jesus words are clear!
Jesus clearly taught that many people would choose the wrong path, and only a few would find life. He spoke about two paths and warned that most people follow the wrong one. He explained that the wide and easy way leads to destruction and many walk on it, but the narrow and difficult way leads to life and only a few find it;
"Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it." (Matthew 7:13–14)
Jesus also warned that not everyone who calls Him Lord will enter the kingdom. He said that only those who do the will of the Father will enter, and that many will be rejected even though they claimed to serve Him. ;
21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness" (Matthew 7:21-23)
When someone asked Jesus directly if only a few would be saved, He did not deny it. Instead, He urged people to strive to enter through the narrow gate, saying that many will try to enter and will not be able;
"Then one said to Him, 'Lord, are there few who are saved?' And He said to them, 'Strive to enter through the narrow gate, for many, I say to you, will seek to enter and will not be able.'"(Luke 13:23–24).
Jesus repeated this truth again by saying that many are invited, but few are chosen;
"For many are called, but few are chosen" (Matthew 22:14).
These teachings show very clearly and undeniably that Jesus did not say everyone would be saved. He warned that many would take the easy road, follow the crowd, and miss eternal life. He taught that the way to life requires real effort, obedience, and faithfulness to God.
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
Yes. Asked and answered.
I would go even further. Even should one of His sheep wander away from time to time, the Good Shepherd will leave the 99 and go after them.
Yep. Christ expended a great deal of effort, was obedient all the way to the cross, and faithfully carried out His mission. Which is why I trust in Him, the Author and Finisher of my faith, to complete the work which He began within me.
And not just me, but in all of those who sincerely call upon His name. When I finally get this beam out of my own eye, I might be able to carefully and lovingly remove the speck from my brothers eye. Until then, I will leave all judgment of who is or is not sincere in their faith, to Him who always judges righteously. Choosing rather to rejoice with my brothers and sisters in the grace and mercy of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, than to place any block of stumbling before them.
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Big Boy Johnson
Well-Known Member
In other words, when people claiming to be Christians speak and teach in opposition to what the Lord teaches in His Word, you're good with seeing these people deceive others and you don't have enough commitment to the Lord to stand up for His Word.
It's sad that the Truth of God's Word is a stumbling block to so many.
This is an earmark of those who don't know what God's Word teaches and as such they don't recognize doctrines of demons and even worse in that they refuse to speak up in support of the Truth of God's Word and are happy to let others continue in their deception.
This is how people behave when they aren't walking in the love of God and instead walk in the carnal minded "love" that comes from the darkened wisdom of mankind that comes from devils.
That depends on which aspect of one's salvation you are referring. Objective salvation cannot be lost, it is wholly accomplished by Christ. However, our subjective salvation can be lost because it all depends on individual man. Does he believe or does he reject Christ. That choice can change many times during one's lifetime.
Scripture does not show a single text that any individual is guaranteed subjective salvation. Or to put it in your language, there is no text that says you CANNOT lose salvation.
If you believe that God does not change, as in He is the same yesterday, today and forever, then to believe your statement would mean God changes.
He created Adam free to love or to reject Him Tell me when did He change so that He now guarantees some creatures to remain faithful?
Some people just like to argue.
Some people prefer to spend their time tearing down instead of building up.
Some people achieve a strong sense of self satisfaction by making broad sweeping accusations against those whom they do not personally know or have any interaction with apart from the safety they imagine while hiding behind their computer keyboards.
Some peoples words are like razors.
Some peoples hearts are hard like stone.
Whether you may be one of those people, I will leave for others to decide.
Big Boy Johnson
Well-Known Member
And some people don't have enough guts to stand up for what God's Word teaches
Usually because they are ignorant of what God's Word teaches due to having been deceived by their denomination's carnal minded teachings that are inspired by the devil and his demons.
Wow, can't even form your own opinions
I admit what you wrote was not clear it was vague can you rephrase? your reply to me?;
Yep. Christ expended a great deal of effort, was obedient all the way to the cross, and faithfully carried out His mission. Which is why I trust in Him, the Author and Finisher of my faith, to complete the work which He began within me.
And not just me, but in all of those who sincerely call upon His name. When I finally get this beam out of my own eye, I might be able to carefully and lovingly remove the speck from my brothers eye. Until then, I will leave all judgment of who is or is not sincere in their faith, to Him who always judges righteously. Choosing rather to rejoice with my brothers and sisters in the grace and mercy of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, than to place any block of stumbling before them.
Those scriptures bring out important "pieces of Truth". I think every scripture gives us [ a piece of Truth ] that is important so we get a more complete understanding!
I read Jesus words to seek for truth - some people say Jesus words mean something else, and they explained this, in so many words,
Shouldn't Jesus words that he took the time to explain be Paramount?
* I seek for truth John 14:6 - * in Jesus words and other scriptures! 2 Timothy 3:16-17
Luke 8:21
Aramaic Bible in Plain English
But he answered and said to them, “These are my mother and my brothers; those who are hearing the word of God and are practicing it.”
Matthew 7:24
“Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and puts them into practice is like a wise man who built his house on the rock. NIV
Hebrews 5:8
New Living Translation
Even though Jesus was God’s Son, he learned obedience from the things he suffered. 9 In this way, God qualified him as a perfect High Priest, and he became the source of eternal salvation for all those who obey him.
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YOU cannot place any stumbling block.
But A PERSON can. (for themselves).
But Jesus said to be careful of stumbling blocks.
I'd say that DISOBEDIENCE TO GOD is a stumbling block.
Jesus confirmed this:
Matthew 18:6-9
6 but whoever * causes one of these little ones who believe in Me to stumble, it would be better for him to have a heavy millstone hung around his neck, and to be drowned in the depth of the sea.
Stumbling Blocks
7 "Woe to the world because of its stumbling blocks! For it is inevitable that stumbling blocks come; but woe to that man through whom the stumbling block comes!8 "If your hand or your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it from you; it is better for you to enter life crippled or lame, than to have two hands or two feet and be cast into the eternal fire.
9 "If your eye causes you to stumble, pluck it out and throw it from you. It is better for you to enter life with one eye, than to have two eyes and be cast into the fiery hell.
And as to judgment...
Matthew 18:15-17
15 "If your brother sins, go and show him his fault in private; if he listens to you, you have won your brother.
16 "But if he does not listen to you, take one or two more with you, so that BY THE MOUTH OF TWO OR THREE WITNESSES EVERY FACT MAY BE CONFIRMED.
17 "If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector.
HOW would anyone know if a brother sins,,,,if we are not able to judge?
What we are NOT to judge is a person's soul.
We ARE able to judge sinning.
Rejoicing in our Lord is wonderful....
as long as we proclaim the truth as Jesus taught it and do not hinder or mislead others with incorrect teachings.
Yes.
I tend to LISTEN to Jesus and do my best to OBEY Him.
You've posted very good verses.
Certainly.
In the last line of your post which I responded to, you said "He taught that the way to life requires real effort, obedience, and faithfulness to God." I am in complete agreement with this statement. However, my focus is not upon my own effort, neither should it be. But rather upon what Christ has accomplished on my behalf. When the scripture states that God is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him, it is within the context of faith. See Hebrews 11. We draw near unto Him because He first, has drawn near unto us. One of the rewards which I have received by responding to Gods call, is to be made woefully aware my own sinfulness and total lack of self sufficiency, which produces the additional reward of realizing the infinite mercy and grace He bestows upon His children.
The same applies to obedience. Christ was asked "What must we do to do the works of God".
See John 6
Christ's response was to believe. Moreover, He did not state that "they" should believe, but that it was the work of God within them to do so. "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent"
Concerning faithfulness, while faithfulness is exhibited through obedience, the ability to remain 100% obedient 100% of the time is beyond us. Daniel said "I have purposed in my heart not to defile myself", David exclaimed " I have hidden thy word in my heart that I might not sin against thee". While there is no biblical record of Daniels sinfulness that I am aware of, David's sins were fully published for all to see. Paul, who said in one place "I am conscious of nothing against myself" described himself elsewhere as the chief of sinners, a wretched man etc.
To walk with Christ requires the daily taking up of ones own cross. Why? Because the only man who does not sin, is a dead one. How does one take up his own cross?
By grace, through faith.
David thanked God for being mindful of his frame.
"As a father shows compassion to his children, so the Lord shows compassion to those who fear him. For he knows our frame; he remembers that we are dust.”
Psalm 103
Paul elaborates significantly in Romans 8, a chapter that anyone who desires to live Godly in Christ Jesus should commit to memory, and pray the Spirit for wisdom concerning. Or in other words, seek diligently in the Spirit to have this passage revealed to them.
"For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father. The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God"
Romans 8:15,16
We do not labor for salvation. We labor because we are saved. We do not cry out to God seeking His favor, but because we have received His favor. We do not cry out Abba Father, hoping to be adopted into His family, but because we know through the gift of faith, that we are indeed His children.
""Well even if Paul did not say it there are several other verses that say this to me and one is John 15:1-10""
Acts 9:15 - Christ commissions Paul to the Gentiles.
Acts 15:6-25 - The 12 confirm Pauls role to the Gentiles/heathen
Gal 2:7-9 Pauls role to the Gentiles again confirmed by the 12
Rom 11:13, Rom 15:16 - Paul confirms his role.
Why are you attempting to negate Paul by using other teachings ?
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