Let's examine Revelation 20:4 yet again.

[WPM]

2. Nowhere in scripture does it state that Satan would be bound and thrown into the same abyss that the beast rose out of before the beast rose out of it.

Revelation 9 shows the devil and his demons to be in the pit before the second coming. In Revelation 9:10-11 the scorpion-like demonic host (that is shown to be currently incarcerated within the abyss) are said to have “a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon.”

This can be none other than Satan. Strong's says: “Apolluon means a destroyer (i.e. Satan).” Before we go any further, it is worth noting, Jesus likened demons to scorpions in Luke 10:19.

Isa 27:1 In that day the LORD with his sore and great and strong sword shall punish leviathan the piercing serpent, even leviathan that crooked serpent; and he shall slay the dragon that is in the sea.

Job 41:1 Canst thou draw out leviathan with an hook? or his tongue with a cord which thou lettest down? …
Job 41:34 He beholdeth all high things: he is a king over all the children of pride.

3. What IS stated is that the beast that rose from out of the abyss that Satan gave power to, will be thrown alive with the false prophet into the lake of fire burning with brimstone

- which at the very least implies (without stating it) that Satan and the beast were not bound in the abyss at the same time, nor would they be thrown into the lake of fire at the same time - because the binding of Satan in the abyss is NOT something which has been mentioned in Revelation 12, as your assertion derived from your adding to and changing of what is written in Revelation 12 falsely claims.

None of the scriptures below point to Satan being thrown into the abyss at the time of the ascension of Christ. The assertion that they do is based once again on a private interpretation of what is written before adding that private interpretation to scripture, changing what scripture says. They're not even speaking about the same subject:

The fate of Satan, the beast (spirit of antichrist / mystery of iniquity) and the fallen angels (demons) are all knit together in Scripture. When Satan fell from heaven, so, did all his demons. When Satan was banished from the Garden then all evil was. They also all came under the same spiritual subjugation at the exact same time through Christ’s earthly ministry.

When Christ bound Satan’s kingdom through His life, death and resurrection then all were bound. 2 Peter 2:4, Jude v 6, Revelation 9 and Revelation 20 all prove the whole demonic realm has been restrained from stopping the free-flow of the Gospel. The bruising of the head of the beast (Revelation 13:3, 13:12 and 13:14) correlates with the bruising of the head of Satan 2,000 years ago through the earthly ministry of Christ (Genesis 3:15). They correspond with the spiritual binding imprisoning of Satan during the millennial period. These are figurative metaphors describing the impairment of the kingdom of darkness 2000 years ago.

When Satan was banished from heaven, so was the whole demonic realm (1/3 of the angels went with him).

Through his defeat, Satan fell from heaven (John 12:31 & Revelation 12:7-9) and is now present in the abyss (Revelation 9:1-11 & Revelation 20:3). The abyss is not a physical geographical place. After all, physical metal chains cannot hold spirits. It is a spiritual state of restraint for spirits now. Near the end, the beast will be released from his restraints and the “deadly wound” to his head will be “healed” (Revelation 13:3, 13:12 and 13:14). This tells us that he too was bruised like Satan’s head through the life, death and resurrection of Christ.

When Satan is released before the second coming for a little season then so are the beast, and Satan's minions. Satan is promised a freedom from restraint before the second coming, as is antichrist, and every demon. Scripture shows the abyss being opened near the end whereupon Satan and his demons are released from their spiritual restraint (Revelation 9:1-11 and Revelation 20:7). This parallels with the beast also rising from the abyss (Revelation 11:7 and Revelation 17:8). This corresponds with the restraint being taken off the mystery of iniquity in 2 Thessalonians 2:7 before Christ’s return.

 

[WPM]

Nowhere in scripture does it state that Satan would be bound and thrown into the same abyss that the beast rose out of before the beast rose out of it.[/B]

Isaiah 61:1-2: “The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound; To proclaim the acceptable year of the LORD, and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that mourn.”

It is no coincidence that this Old Testament passage was source of the first ever recorded earthly sermon of Christ. This was deliberate and this was providential. It set the stage for what He was about to do. It set down a marker! Isaiah 61:1 is Christ’s mission statement. Here He laid all His cards on the table. Here He confirmed His assignment. This embodied who He was and what drove Him during His ministry. This was Christ’s earthly task. This was His agenda. This is what He come to achieve. This was His goal. Jesus come to set man free. He was a liberator. Christ came to defeat Satan and liberate His own elect from every hold of Satan. Hades was one of these enemies.He didn’t want to leave man in a spiritual prison.

• He didn’t want to leave him in darkness.
• He didn’t want him to be a trophy of Satan’s assaults.
• He didn’t want him to be broken-hearted.

These captives that He spoke about who were about to be liberated were you and me. His mission included binding up the brokenhearted.

Mark 3:11, 23-27 records: “unclean spirits, when they saw him, fell down before him, and cried, saying, Thou art the Son of God ... And the scribes which came down from Jerusalem said, He hath Beelzebub, and by the prince of the devils casteth he out devils. And he called them unto him, and said unto them in parables, How can Satan cast out Satan? And if a kingdom be divided against itself, that kingdom cannot stand. And if a house be divided against itself, that house cannot stand. And if Satan rise up against himself, and be divided, he cannot stand, but hath an end. No man can enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he will first bind [Gr. deo] the strong man; and then he will spoil his house.”

This familiar discourse by our Lord came as a response to the crude scoffs of the religious Scribes (during His earthly ministry) dismissing Christ’s deliverance ministry as a work of Satan. Christ’s reply confirmed that the binding of Satan commenced 2,000 yrs ago and is not simply a future hope that will occur after the Lord’s return. He said: “No man can enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he will first bind the strong man; and then he will spoil his house.” Christ was firstly referring to the false charge that was laid at his door in relation to his assault on the demonic realm. Secondly, He was describing the subjugation of the “unclean spirits” as “when they saw him” they “fell down before him” in surrender.

Jesus said in the corresponding passage in Luke 11:20-22, “if I with the finger of God cast out devils, no doubt the kingdom of God is come upon you. When a strong man armed keepeth his palace, his goods are in peace: But when a stronger than he shall come upon him, and overcome him, he taketh from him all his armour wherein he trusted, and divideth his spoils.”

Here, Christ highlights the sovereign power of the kingdom of God and reveals how the “strong man” – Satan – and his kingdom of devils can only be defeated by One that is stronger than them, namely Himself – the Son of God. As we examine the gospels we discover, Satan was defeated everywhere that Christ confronted him. Our Lord had to first bind Satan before He could release God’s elect from his clutches. The Lord entered the devil’s house and took authority over him and took his spoil (God’s people). Satan's influence over them was broken.

To understand Christ’s achievements we need to realize that He was a man on a mission. His assignment was mammoth. He came to confront and overcome. When Christ came, justice demanded:

• He had to defeat sin – the source of man’s enslavement.
• He had to defeat Satan – the instrument used to tempt man to sin.
• He had to defeat death (or the grave) – the penalty of sin.
• He had to defeat Hades (or Abraham’s bosom) – the prison of the righteous dead.
• He had to defeat the lake of fire (and eternal punishment) – the just reward for unrepentant sinners.

Abraham’s bosom was the temporary abode of dead believers prior to the cross. The lake of fire is the permanent and final place of judgment for the lost.

This meant that none of these had any power over God’s people.

Ephesians 4:8-10 says: “Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men. (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth? He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)”

We do not need to speculate as to when and how Christ led captivity captive. This text tells us. It happened when Jesus “ascended up on high. No one could ascend to heaven before the Messiah defeated sin and death. This resulted in the defeat of Satan, Hades and eternal punishment. This came through the life, death and resurrection of our Lord. The faithful dead saints were waiting in Abraham's bosom for the coming conquering Messiah who would take them to heaven. Since then, every believer who dies ascends to heaven to reign with Him.

Death and Hades are now defeated. The grave has been conquered. Abraham’s bosom has been emptied since the first resurrection. God's people who die go now to be with Jesus. The mortal corruptible remains of flesh return to the earth and stay there until they are resurrected immortal and incorruptible at the coming of the Lord.

 

[WPM]

The angels who sinned whom Peter and Jude refer to as being in Tartarus had been there since the days of Noah. The context does not permit corrupting scripture by changing how long they had been in Tarrtaroo which is implied by the context of the passages.

Why do you mess with the Word of God like this in order to uphold your doctrines?

Jude supports the view of a current binding of the whole kingdom of darkness, in v 6, when he says, “the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains [Gr. desmois] under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.”

The "angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation" are devils or demons. They are the evil angels that sided with Satan at the beginning and rebelled against God. What spiritual condition does Jude say they are in during this new covenant period? They are spiritually bound! They are spiritually curtailed. They are restrained since the earthly ministry of Christ. The Church has been anointed to confront and overcome Satan throughout the nations. The nations are no longer ignore, deceived and without hope.

Repeated Scripture shows that the Church has now been given spiritual power over Satan to resist him, bind his powers, spoil his goods, damage his kingdom and thwart his plans.

2 Peter 2:4 closely correlates with Jude v6, saying, “God spared not the angels that sinned, but ‘cast them down to hell’, [Gr. tartaroo] and delivered them ‘into chains’ [Gr. seiraís] of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment.”

This passage is an obvious mirror of Jude verse 6, describing the spiritual restrains that the whole demonic realm is currently subject to, up until the judgment. It is worth noting that this passage is the only place in Scripture where we find the Greek words tartaroo (Strong’s 5020) and seiraís (Strong’s 4577). The word tartaroo in the original does not refer to hell (Hades) but rather to the abyss. In fact, the Greek word tartaroo comes from tartaros which refers to the deepest part of the abyss. Moreover, the Greek word seiraís means bonds. This text powerfully confirms the Amillennial view that Satan’s demonic kingdom is already bound in the invisible spiritual realm of the abyss.

But that is not all. Revelation 9 support the Amil view of Revelation 20. 2 Peter 2:4, Jude 6 and Revelation 9:1-3 refute the idea that the abyss only becomes the domain of demons after the coming of Christ. They show the abyss occupied now by Satan's minions, prior to the last trumpet. Revelation 9:11 also shows Satan (Abaddon/Apollyon) there as well. Of course, the restrain here cannot be physical. After all, Satan is a spiritual being. He is like a dog on a chain. He cannot stop the Gospel going out to the nations since the cross. He once had that power. How can Premils recognize the restraint of the demonic host in the pit but not Satan? You cannot divorce them.

Revelation 9:1-5: “And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit. And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit. And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power. And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads. And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man.

Revelation 9:10-11: “And they had tails like unto scorpions, and there were stings in their tails: and their power was to hurt men five months. And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon.”

Revelation 9 describes an abyss that is full of wicked spirits that are restrained, but will be released prior to the second coming for a short season. This is something Premils choose to overlook. The abyss is inhabited now with Satan's minions. They have a king over them (Abaddon / Apollyon), a ruler who marshals their hosts. This is Satan - the only king in the kingdom of darkness.

The spiritual restrains will be released on Satan and the beast antichrist system at the end to curtail the global spread of the Gospel. At the end of the thousand years, Satan will be loosed for a short time. The one who "letteth," or restrains, will be taken out of the way (2 Thess 2:7). This enables Satan to establish his world-kingdom under antichrist. The result is the final, all-out assault upon the true Church and her living, faithful members. The "beloved city" represents the church. The "saints" are all those whom the Spirit of Christ has sanctified through faith in Christ.

We see the devils in Revelation 9:2-3, the beast in 2 Thessalonians 2:3-12, Revelation 11:7 and Revelation 17:8, and Satan in Revelation 9:10-11 and Revelation 20:3 all being released before the second coming for a little season. This is not a coincidence. This is not a fluke. It shows the detail and corroboration of Scripture. This is something that Premil severely lacks, and why many are turning away from it. That is why Premils get so quickly frustrated in debates. They have no other biblical support for their position. When you challenge them to support their view of any given matter in Revelation 20 they amazingly quote Revelation 20 as their corroboration. They do not seem to grasp, that is not the way corroboration works!

The interpretation that Premils put on Revelation 20:2-3 and the gigantic theology they build upon their opinion of this lone passage is at very best unfair and at worst duplicitous. It reads: “And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations [Gr. ethnos or the Gentiles) no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.”

In Revelation 20, we are looking at a vision about a dragon. Is this a literal dragon? Of course not. Satan is a spiritual being. It is a symbolic vision. The chain and key are also not literal and physical but symbolic.

• The dragon represents Satan.
• The angel is Christ.
• The chain represents restraint.
• The key represents authority.

John was given a symbolic picture of a dragon (yes a dragon) being placed into a prison with chains around him. Was this a literal dragon? No! Were these literal metal chain? Of course not. Was this a physical brick penitentiary? Of course not. This represented Satan being placed under spiritual restraint after the resurrection. The restraint related exclusively to the deception of the Gentiles. It allowed the Gospel to spread globally and Satan could not stop it. The Gentiles were blind, deceived and ignorant before the cross, since Christ’s victory and Satan's restraint the light has shone upon the Gentiles and countless have been set free.

Revelation 20 is simply showing an figurative picture of the victory Christ secured over Satan through His sinless life, vicarious death and glorious resurrection (the first resurrection). The symbolic dragon is thrown into a symbolic prison with symbolic chains upon him. You need to see that Satan is not a physical being, so a physical brick prison and metal chains won't cut it. This literal imagery represents deeper spiritual truth - namely that Satan is curtailed from deceiving the Gentiles as he did before the cross.

 

[Davidpt]

You didn't answer who the thief is that wants to destroy. It's satan. satan wants to destroy so naturally he is the destroyer. satan has many names and titles, and Apollyon and Abaddon are just two out of many. None of satan's angels are ever named IMO.

How then do you make your view of Revelation 9 fit Premil when it would fit Amil instead, if satan is in the pit when the locusts are in the pit, and when the pit is opened both are set free from it?

And what about this---they should hurt only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads? What would motivate satan to want to do that of all things? Torment his own camp rather than wage war on the saints, thus the church?

In this case you don't seem to be reasoning through any of this via the lens of Premil. Therefore, contradicting that Premil does not have satan in the pit until after Christ returns. I just can't figure out why any Premil would agree with Amil that Apollyon is satan? The 5th trumpet can't even fit Amil let alone Premil if Apollyon is satan. Because, no way in a million years could satan have anything to do with the following--they should hurt only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.

But I can tell you who would be behind that. God would be, obviously.

 

[WPM]

How then do you make your view of Revelation 9 fit Premil when it would fit Amil instead, if satan is in the pit when the locusts are in the pit, and when the pit is opened both are set free from it?

And what about this---they should hurt only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads? What would motivate satan to want to do that of all things? Torment his own camp rather than wage war on the saints, thus the church?

In this case you don't seem to be reasoning through any of this via the lens of Premil. Therefore, contradicting that Premil does not have satan in the pit until after Christ returns. I just can't figure out why any Premil would agree with Amil that Apollyon is satan? The 5th trumpet can't even fit Amil let alone Premil if Apollyon is satan. Because, no way in a million years could satan have anything to do with the following--they should hurt only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.

But I can tell you who would be behind that. God would be, obviously.

2 Peter 2:4, Jude 1:6, Revelation 9:1-3 and Revelation 20:2-3 rebut Premil. They show Satan and demons in the abyss before the second coming. That is why Premils have to discard, twist or butcher them.

 

[Davidpt]

Revelation 9 shows the devil to be in the pit before the second coming. In Revelation 9:10-11 the scorpion-like demonic host (that is shown to be currently incarcerated within the abyss) are said to have “a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon.”

This can be none other than Satan. Strong's says: “Apolluon means a destroyer (i.e. Satan).” Before we go any further, it is worth noting, Jesus likened demons to scorpions in Luke 10:19.

Isa 27:1 In that day the LORD with his sore and great and strong sword shall punish leviathan the piercing serpent, even leviathan that crooked serpent; and he shall slay the dragon that is in the sea.

Job 41:1 Canst thou draw out leviathan with an hook? or his tongue with a cord which thou lettest down? …
Job 41:34 He beholdeth all high things: he is a king over all the children of pride.



The fate of Satan, the beast (spirit of antichrist / mystery of iniquity) and the fallen angels (demons) are all knit together in Scripture. When Satan fell from heaven, so, did all his demons. When Satan was banished from the Garden then all evil was. They also all came under the same spiritual subjugation at the exact same time through Christ’s earthly ministry.

When Christ bound Satan’s kingdom through His life, death and resurrection then all were bound. 2 Peter 2:4, Jude v 6, Revelation 9 and Revelation 20 all prove the whole demonic realm has been restrained from stopping the free-flow of the Gospel. The bruising of the head of the beast (Revelation 13:3, 13:12 and 13:14) correlates with the bruising of the head of Satan 2,000 years ago through the earthly ministry of Christ (Genesis 3:15). They correspond with the spiritual binding imprisoning of Satan during the millennial period. These are figurative metaphors describing the impairment of the kingdom of darkness 2000 years ago.

When Satan was banished from heaven, so was the whole demonic realm (1/3 of the angels went with him).

Through his defeat, Satan fell from heaven (John 12:31 & Revelation 12:7-9) and is now present in the abyss (Revelation 9:1-11 & Revelation 20:3). The abyss is not a physical geographical place. After all, physical metal chains cannot hold spirits. It is a spiritual state of restraint for spirits now. Near the end, the beast will be released from his restraints and the “deadly wound” to his head will be “healed” (Revelation 13:3, 13:12 and 13:14). This tells us that he too was bruised like Satan’s head through the life, death and resurrection of Christ.

When Satan is released before the second coming for a little season then so are the beast, and Satan's minions. Satan is promised a freedom from restraint before the second coming, as is antichrist, and every demon. Scripture shows the abyss being opened near the end whereupon Satan and his demons are released from their spiritual restraint (Revelation 9:1-11 and Revelation 20:7). This parallels with the beast also rising from the abyss (Revelation 11:7 and Revelation 17:8). This corresponds with the restraint being taken off the mystery of iniquity in 2 Thessalonians 2:7 before Christ’s return.

Let's ignore this portion of the text then---that they should hurt only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.

Plus let's ignore that Jesus already plainly said that a kingdom divided against itself can't stand.

If we read further in chapter 9 we see this, yet in regards to another event. And the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues yet repented not of the works of their hands, that they should not worship devils, and idols of gold, and silver, and brass, and stone, and of wood: which neither can see, nor hear, nor walk:

Obviously then, one of the reasons for the locusts tormenting those which have not the seal of God in their forehead is to pressure them to repent. We can deduce that based on what verse 20 tells us in regards to something similar. As if satan would be desiring anyone in his camp to repent and turn away from him and turn towards God instead. That really makes a lot of sense, doesn't it? Even you know it doesn't. But because of doctrinal bias' are you going to publicly admit it, though?

 

[Zao is life]

i accept the encouragment and slight rebuke from Dan

You are welcome to encourage me as well should i go astray or become puffed up

Okay I will. I don't think Dan was talking about you. He was generalizing about a good few people who post in these forums, and about the vibe in general, and about the fact that people sit here like keyboard warriors instead of warriors going about with the sword of the spirit conquering the kingdom of Satan by getting the lost saved, and by so doing overcoming the gates of hades.

etc etc etc etc.

Maybe one of the people he might have had in mind, was you. He was talking to you about his general gripes not about you specifically but about his disapproval of the forums and activities here in the forums.

 

[David in NJ]

Okay I will. I don't think Dan was talking about you. He was generalizing about a good few people who post in these forums, and about the vibe in general, and about the fact that people sit here like keyboard warriors instead of warriors going about with the sword of the spirit conquering the kingdom of Satan by getting the lost saved, and by so doing overcoming the gates of hades.

etc etc etc etc.

Maybe one of the people he might have had in mind, was you. He was talking to you about his general gripes not about you specifically but about his disapproval of the forums and activities here in the forums.

i accepted his love this morning and actually took it to heart - in a Good Way - his encouragement to get out and reach people with the Gospel

We had bad weather this weekend and i will not get out until roads are in better condition

 

[WPM]

Let's ignore this portion of the text then---that they should hurt only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.

Plus let's ignore that Jesus already plainly said that a kingdom divided against itself can't stand.

If we read further in chapter 9 we see this, yet in regards to another event. And the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues yet repented not of the works of their hands, that they should not worship devils, and idols of gold, and silver, and brass, and stone, and of wood: which neither can see, nor hear, nor walk:

Obviously then, one of the reasons for the locusts tormenting those which have not the seal of God in their forehead is to pressure them to repent. We can deduce that based on what verse 20 tells us in regards to something similar. As if satan would be desiring anyone in his camp to repent and turn away from him and turn towards God instead.

What? How to you come to that conclusion? Demons definitely do not want the wicked to repent. They want to deceive, torment and destroy. That is what they do at the end. But they cannot do that to the redeemed.

 

[Zao is life]

Revelation 12 covers the beginning of the millennium, after the first resurrection of Christ. It basically focuses in on the after-effects of the resurrection.

Nope. The devil is still even now at war against the rest of the woman's seed who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ. It's in the text, which is simple and unambiguous.

A simple comparison of scripture with scripture will tell you about how the saints are warned to be weary of his wiles and to resist him, and to put on the full armor of God because "we do not wrestle against flesh and blood" etc (John 12:31; 1 Peter 5:8-9; Ephesians 6:11-12; Revelation 2:9-10 & Revelation 2:13; 1 Thessalonians 2:18; James 4:7 ).

When was Satan cast out?

The answer is in the text. It is very simple and unambiguous: when He ascended up to heaven! When the “man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron … was caught up unto God, and to his throne."

That's right - and nowhere does the text say that he was cast into the abyss and a seal set upon him ..

Instead we are told about him being cast down to the earth.

A careful comparison of both passages confirms that they closely parallel and perfectly correlate with each other. Revelation 12:9-13 says, speaking of the tremendous ramifications that Calvary had upon Satan. It also demonstrates the heavenly impact that Christ’s glorious victory over Satan secured.

Once again your post mixes truth with falsehood - a thing that marks and identifies almost all of your posts, as below:

Both Revelation 20 and Revelation 12 chart the casting down of Satan from heaven in order to facilitate the global spread of the Gospel to the previously blinded nations.

Revelation 12 speaks about Satan being cast down to the earth and going to war first against the woman who gave birth to the Child and then against the rest of her offspring who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Christ.

1. Where in Revelation 12 does it say that Satan was chained and thrown into the abyss and a seal set on him in order that he can deceive the nations no more for a thousand years?. PROVIDE THE VERSE/S IN REVELATION 12 PLEASE.

2. Where in Revelation 20:1-8 does it say that Satan was cast down to earth having great rage and went to war first against the woman who gave birth to the Child, and then against the rest of her offspring who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Christ? PROVIDE THE VERSE/S IN REVELATION 20 PLEASE.

You ought to provide the verses asked for in the above two chapters because the rest of what you say that you base on your false assertions regarding the above two passages is:


A nothing-burger.

 

[WPM]

Nope. The devil is still even now at war against the rest of the woman's seed who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ. It's in the text, which is simple and unambiguous.

A simple comparison of scripture with scripture will tell you about how the saints are warned to be weary of his wiles and to resist him, and to put on the full armor of God because "we do not wrestle against flesh and blood" etc (John 12:31; 1 Peter 5:8-9; Ephesians 6:11-12; Revelation 2:9-10 & Revelation 2:13; 1 Thessalonians 2:18; James 4:7 ).



That's right - and nowhere does the text say that he was cast into the abyss and a seal set upon him ..

Instead we are told about him being cast down to the earth.



Once again your post mixes truth with falsehood - a thing that marks and identifies almost all of your posts, as below:



Revelation 12 speaks about Satan being cast down to the earth and going to war first against the woman who gave birth to the Child and then against the rest of her offspring who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Christ.

1. Where in Revelation 12 does it say that Satan was chained and thrown into the abyss and a seal set on him in order that he can deceive the nations no more for a thousand years?. PROVIDE THE VERSE/S IN REVELATION 12 PLEASE.

2. Where in Revelation 20:1-8 does it say that Satan was cast down to earth having great rage and went to war first against the woman who gave birth to the Child, and then against the rest of her offspring who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Christ? PROVIDE THE VERSE/S IN REVELATION 20 PLEASE.

You ought to provide the verses asked for in the above two chapters because the rest of what you say that you base on your false assertions regarding the above two passages is:



A nothing-burger.

Where you err is that you impose a meaning on Revelation 20 that does not exist and cannot be supported by any other passage in the Word. That is why you or no other Premil can submit any corroboration for any of the Premils tenets. You repeatedly avoid to answer the questions because you have no answers. You have zero support for your private interpretation of Revelation 20. From that false presence you build your house of straw.

One of countless proofs: Let's examine Revelation 20:4 yet again.

Premillennialism is totally preoccupied with, and dependent upon, one chapter in the Bible – Revelation 20. It interprets the rest of Scripture in the light of its opinion of one lone highly-debated chapter, 3 chapters before the end of the Bible, located in the most figurative and obscure book in the Bible. All end-time Scripture is viewed through the lens of Revelation 20. This is not a very wise way to establish any truth or doctrine. Take this passage out of the equation and Premillennialism has nothing in the inspired pages to support all its main tenets. This is demonstrated by the fact, there is not one single second coming passage in the Bible that teaches 1000 years (or any significant period of time) follows this great glorious event where sin and death continue. Amils have a problem with, and are opposed to, this loose form of hermeneutics and questionable mode of exegesis.

Revelation is definitely not a single unfolding sequence of historic events from start to finish. It is certainly not chronological. There are many parts of the book that do not run in a linear fashion. Revelation lays out its own unique format, letting us know the beginning and ending of each recapitulation. It also shows us the parts that are parenthetical, and gives common and consistent points of reference between the various portions of the book.

It essentially presents different camera views of the same game (mainly, the period between Christ's First Advent and His Second Advent). The visions in the book of Revelation are distinct, recaps and concurrent. Sometimes they are looking back, sometimes they are looking forward. They describe the same time periods in different ways only zooming in on different entities or different events.

Sometimes when one is watching a sports game, the camera is close in on the action, sometimes it presents a broad panoramic view of the game. Sometimes it is focused on the coaches, sometimes it is focused on the players, other times, it is focused on the fans. The book Revelation is a bit like that.

Revelation 12 and Revelation 20 shows different aspects of the defeat of Satan, his demons and the kingdom of darkness. Revelation 12 shows Satan's banishment to earth after Christ's ascension. Revelation 20 shows the binding of Satan after the First Advent of Christ.

 

[Zao is life]

i accepted his love this morning and actually took it to heart - in a Good Way - his encouragement to get out and reach people with the Gospel

We had bad weather this weekend and i will not get out until roads are in better condition

I understand his criticism and agree with it - to a point - but there was a time when I would go about sharing the gospel (with one or two others).

Nowadays I share the moment someone asks me about my faith (obviously) OR opens the door by saying something about there being "many religions in the world, and how can anyone know which one is true", OR by saying something critical about Christianity, OR by telling me that my faith is "my truth", etc etc

.. OR (these days) by saying something critical about Israel, expecting me to answer them with the same subject they brought up, in which case I respond with, "The Bible says all have sinned and all fall short of God's glorious standard". It normally closes their mouths and might get them embarrassed enough for me to say more about what Jesus did for humanity. Most of the time they will then uhm err eh and quickly change the subject - which gets me off the hook having to agree with their antisemtism.

Not everyone is called to be an evangelist or missionary but all are called to be ready to share the gospel. Over time you get to recognize the opportunity the moment the door opens.

 

[WPM]

Nope. The devil is still even now at war against the rest of the woman's seed who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ. It's in the text, which is simple and unambiguous.

A simple comparison of scripture with scripture will tell you about how the saints are warned to be weary of his wiles and to resist him, and to put on the full armor of God because "we do not wrestle against flesh and blood" etc (John 12:31; 1 Peter 5:8-9; Ephesians 6:11-12; Revelation 2:9-10 & Revelation 2:13; 1 Thessalonians 2:18; James 4:7 ).



That's right - and nowhere does the text say that he was cast into the abyss and a seal set upon him ..

Instead we are told about him being cast down to the earth.



Once again your post mixes truth with falsehood - a thing that marks and identifies almost all of your posts, as below:



Revelation 12 speaks about Satan being cast down to the earth and going to war first against the woman who gave birth to the Child and then against the rest of her offspring who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Christ.

For many centuries Yahweh was ethnic Israel's God. He was God of the Hebrew people. After the First Advent, He was God of the nations. The Gospel opportunity widened to embrace the darkened Gentiles. This was not the case prior to Calvary, with the special exception of Nineveh. The Gospel expanse has gone from "the nation" (singular) before the cross to "the nations" (plural) after the cross. The nations now contain God's chosen people, not simply the nation!

In the Old Testament, God governed Israel in a theocracy, Satan, on the other hand, ruled the nations. The Gentiles were overwhelmingly ignorant to God’s truth and outside of His covenant favor. They were spiritually deceived. They were bound in paganism and blinded by idolatry. They sat in spiritual darkness. Only one single Gentile village/town/city experienced salvation that we know of. The world in general was deceived, not knowing anything about the grace of God or His merciful way of salvation.

Acts 17:30 tells us: “the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent.”

What is “the times of this ignorance”? What does this mean? Who is this talking about? It is the state of the Gentile nations before the earthly ministry of Christ and the introduction of His Messianic reign. Before Christ came Satan was able to prevent the Word of God from being heard throughout the world. Before the cross, the heathen were ignorant to the truth and therefore in desperate need of enlightenment.

The Gentiles are constantly depicted in the Old Testament as being in darkness. They are described as being ignored, blind and without hope. They are depicted as being imprisoned in chains.

Acts 14:16 teaches that God “in times past suffered all nations to walk in their own ways.”

Did this mean every Gentile in the Old Testament time was unsaved?

No. This tells us that “all nations” were allowed “to walk in their own ways” in the Old Testament era. They were deceived by the lie of the devil and separated from God and from grace.
Before Christ came, Satan was able to prevent the Word of God from being heard throughout the world. The Gentiles are constantly depicted in the Old Testament as being in darkness. Before the cross they were ignorant to the truth and therefore in desperate need of enlightenment. Ignorance in Scripture is always linked to lack of knowledge of the Word of God. It is a fact that the Gospel witness had not reached the nations prior to the earthly ministry of Christ.

Ephesians 2:11-13 confirms this, saying, “ye being in time past Gentiles [Gr. ethnos] in the flesh, who are called uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world: but now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.”

The Gentiles generally were in a hopeless condition before the cross, “having no hope, and without God in the world” (Ephesians 2:12). That is a pretty grim state to be in. However, the darkness over the nations (ethnos) was lifted when the Gospel light began to shine. Now there was glorious hope and a way of escape from their despair. Satan had lost his grip over the nations, now it was time for him to be unseated in the lives of countless of millions of heathens.

Israel on the other hand, whilst often in rebellion, was subject to the truth. Prophet after prophet came preaching the unsearchable riches of God. They therefore had no excuse. The people were enlightened to the law of God and therefore God’s expectation of them. Notwithstanding, that did not mean the chosen nation was immune from satanic deception. Israel (who alone possessed God's special favor, and from whom the Messiah came) still mainly died in unbelief before Christ.

Satan was bound (or spiritually curtailed) in order to facilitate the invasion of his territory by the Gospel. Remember, Satan is a spiritual being; he must therefore be spiritually bound. That is what happened at the cross. Countless millions of Gentiles have come to Christ since the cross.

There was a spiritual deception over the Gentiles before the cross that has now been lifted. The darkness has been confronted and exposed and overcome through the Light of the truth. That light is centered in the person and message of Christ. Satan is no longer able to deceive the Gentiles in this New Testament age in the same manner and scope as he deceived them prior to Jesus’ binding Satan at the cross.

Scripture repeatedly identifies the Messianic intra-Advent period as the time of the enlightenment of the Gentiles. This does not in any way insinuate that all will be saved. Not in any way. With the global expanse of the great commission the Gentiles are now without excuse. The ignorance is gone. The veil is lifted.

When Scripture speaks about the enlightenment of the Gentiles and the removal of the deception it doesn’t mean that every Gentile will be saved, but that the Gospel message and opportunity would be extended to them as a whole – just like Israel experienced it in the Old Testament.

Zacharias the father of John the Baptist was filled with the Holy Ghost in Luke 1:67-80 and prophesied: “Blessed be the Lord God of Israel; for he hath visited and redeemed his people, And hath raised up an horn of salvation for us in the house of his servant David; As he spake by the mouth of his holy prophets, which have been since the world began: That we should be saved from our enemies, and from the hand of all that hate us; To perform the mercy promised to our fathers, and to remember his holy covenant; The oath which he sware to our father Abraham, That he would grant unto us, that we being delivered out of the hand of our enemies might serve him without fear, In holiness and righteousness before him, all the days of our life … Through the tender mercy of our God; whereby the dayspring from on high hath visited us, To give light to them that sit in darkness and in the shadow of death, to guide our feet into the way of peace. And the child grew, and waxed strong in spirit, and was in the deserts till the day of his shewing unto Israel.”

As you read through the Old Testament and as you see the revelation of God being outlined prior to the beginning of Christ’s earthly ministry, believers knew that the Gospel was going to go the Gentiles. Here (in this passage) the enlightenment of the Gentiles is directly predicted. This is speaking about the great commission and this current intra-Advent period. Here is the foretelling of the enlightenment of the nations.

Luke 2:27 "the parents brought in the child Jesus, to do for him after the custom of the law, Then took he him up in his arms, and blessed God, and said, Lord, now lettest thou thy servant depart in peace, according to thy word: For mine eyes have seen thy salvation, Which thou hast prepared before the face of all people; A light to lighten the Gentiles, and the glory of thy people Israel."

Many conveniently overlook the seismic change in regard to the Gospel opportunity that exist today (in comparison to before the cross) in regard to the nations access to truth. Does that mean all Gentiles will be enlightened? Of course not. It is a general statement like Revelation 20.

The deception was lifted and truth shone bright throughout the nations.

 

[Zao is life]

Where you err is that you impose a meaning on Revelation 20 that does not exist

Where you err is that you impose a meaning on Revelation 12 that does not exist and take away the plain meaning that does exist from Revelation 20.

Your reading comprehension skills are not very good, are they?

The rest of what you say based on your false assertion above is


a nothing-burger.

 

[David in NJ]

I understand his criticism and agree with it - to a point - but there was a time when I would go about sharing the gospel (with one or two others).

Nowadays I share the moment someone asks me about my faith (obviously) OR opens the door by saying something about there being "many religions in the world, and how can anyone know which one is true", OR by saying something critical about Christianity, OR by telling me that my faith is "my truth", etc etc

.. OR (these days) by saying something critical about Israel, expecting me to answer them with the same subject they brought up, in which case I respond with, "The Bible says all have sinned and all fall short of God's glorious standard". It normally closes their mouths and might get them embarrassed enough for me to say more about what Jesus did for humanity. Most of the time they will then uhm err eh and quickly change the subject - which gets me off the hook having to agree with their antisemtism.

Not everyone is called to be an evangelist or missionary but all are called to be ready to share the gospel. Over time you get to recognize the opportunity the moment the door opens.

DITTO

 

[Zao is life]

For many centuries Yahweh was ethnic Israel's God. He was God of the Hebrew people. After the First Advent,

Please answer the questions. You avoidance is glaringly obvious.

1. Where in Revelation 12 does it say that Satan was chained and thrown into the abyss and a seal set on him in order that he can deceive the nations no more for a thousand years?. PROVIDE THE VERSE/S IN REVELATION 12 PLEASE.

2. Where in Revelation 20:1-8 does it say that Satan was cast down to earth having great rage and went to war first against the woman who gave birth to the Child, and then against the rest of her offspring who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Christ? PROVIDE THE VERSE/S IN REVELATION 20 PLEASE.

 

[WPM]

Where you err is that you impose a meaning on Revelation 12 that does not exist and take away the plain meaning that does exist from Revelation 20.

Your reading comprehension skills are not very good, are they?

The rest of what you say based on your false assertion above is



a nothing-burger.

Rev 12:5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.
Rev 12:6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.
Rev 12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
Rev 12:8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
Rev 12:10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
Rev 12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

This is a victorious scene. This shows the ascent of Jesus to heaven, followed by a battle in heaven, followed by the downfall of Satan. This results in the victorious declaration from heaven: “Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ.” The grounds of this are the victorious life, death, and resurrection of Christ. Christ is now enthroned. The penalty for sin has been paid. The grave has been defeated. Hades has been emptied of the redeemed. The Gospel can now go out “the whole world” that was previously deceived by the devil.

Because Christ had now secured victory over Satan, and delegated that to the New Testament Church, “they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.”

This description of “the great dragon … that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan” who “deceiveth the whole world” is attribute it to him at the moment of his casting done. This proves that Amillennial argument. The context is: the time of his throwing down what's the time where is the gospel invaded the nations. It is only them that Scripture says: “Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.” This is when the tide turn. This is when the light shown upon the gentiles. This is when the ignorance lifted.

Salvation had now come to the nations. But Satan had to first be cast down. He had to be defeated. Christ’s ascent and victory safely secured that. As a result, the Church becomes a militant overcoming organism. The text testifies: “they (the Church of Jesus Christ) overcame him (the devil) by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.”

 

[WPM]

Please answer the questions. You avoidance is glaringly obvious.

LOL. I did. You just have no rebuttal.

 

[WPM]

Please answer the questions. You avoidance is glaringly obvious.

1. What Scripture, if any, do you consider definitely corroborates the Premillennial interpretation of Revelation 20 that there a literal future 1000 years+?
2. What Scripture, if any, do you consider definitely corroborates the Premillennial interpretation of Revelation 20 that there are two distinct physical resurrection days (the first for the righteous, the second for the wicked) separated by a literal 1000 years+?
3. Where in Scripture does it mention "resurrection days" (plural), pertaining to the end?
4. What Scripture (including Revelation 20) do you consider definitely teaches there are two distinct future judgement days (that will see all mankind stand before Christ to give account for their lives) separated by a literal 1000 years+?
5. Where in Scripture does it mention "judgement days" (plural), in regard to the end?
6. What Scripture, if any, do you consider definitely corroborates the Premillennial interpretation of Revelation 20 that Satan will be bound for a time-span of 1000 years after the Second Advent, then released for a "little season" to deceive the nations, and then destroy them?
7. Where in Scripture including Revelation 20 does it teach that both unregenerate mortals and the glorified saints will inherit the future earth after the second coming of Christ?
8. What Scripture, if any, do you consider definitely corroborates the Premillennial interpretation of Revelation 20 that the wicked will grow to such an overwhelming number that they will overrun a future millennial earth as the sand of the sea and surround Christ and the glorified saints?

 

[Zao is life]

LOL. I did. You just have no rebuttal.

No you have not provided the verses I asked for in Revelation 12 and 20.

1. Where in Revelation 12 does it say that Satan was chained and thrown into the abyss and a seal set on him in order that he can deceive the nations no more for a thousand years? PROVIDE THE VERSE/S IN REVELATION 12 PLEASE.

2. Where in Revelation 20:1-8 does it say that Satan was cast down to earth having great rage and went to war first against the woman who gave birth to the Child, and then against the rest of her offspring who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Christ? PROVIDE THE VERSE/S IN REVELATION 20 PLEASE.

Your avoidance shows that you obviously have nothing substantial to offer except whole long sermons of nothing-burgers based on false assertions - and asking questions that you already asked before and which I answered before.

But you cannot answer my simple questions.

Goodnight.