Let's examine Revelation 20:4 yet again.

[WPM]

No you have not provided the verses I asked for in Revelation 12 and 20.

Obviously you have nothing substantial to offer except whole long sermons of nothing-burgers based on false assertions.

Goodnight.

The reader will see your constant avoidance. You have nothing of biblical worth to bring to the table. That is why you run every time you are challenged.

1 John 2:8: “the darkness is past, and the true light now shineth.”

The deception that once enveloped all the Gentile nations has been lifted since the cross and Satan’s territory has been overwhelmingly invaded over this past 2,000 years. Satan cannot stop the free spread of the Gospel or stop the Church of Jesus Christ as it enforces the will of God on planet earth.

A result of the first Advent and the life, death and first resurrection of Jesus was that the ignorance was removed, the Gospel opportunity was widened out to the Gentiles. They no longer sat in darkness, ignorance and hopelessness deceived by the devil in their paganism.

Revelation 20:2 makes clear, "And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years. And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations (or ethnos) no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.”

This is a general statement that is repeating what the rest of Scripture is saying, telling us: through the life, death and resurrection of Jesus Christ the Gentiles would no longer be deceived. It is a sweeping statement. It is a generality. Scripture does that often. This is the authority Jesus secured through His resurrection. He cast Satan out of heaven and then restrained him with spiritual chains so that the Gospel could enlighten the nations. Satan's defeat came after the resurrection.

The release of Satan at the end of the millennium sees the subjugation of the great commission and consequently the enlightenment of the nations. The devil will be able to curtail the evangelistic outreach of the true Church at the end. This is a generality. The spiritual restrains will be released on Satan and the beast/antichrist system at the end to curtail the global spread of the Gospel. Satan will be loosed for a short time. The one who "letteth," or restrains, will be taken out of the way (2 Thess 2:7). This enables Satan to establish his world-kingdom under antichrist. The result is the final, all-out assault upon the Church and her living, faithful members.

 

[Zao is life]

The reader will see your constant avoidance. You have nothing of biblical worth to bring to the table. That is why you run every time you are challenged.

The reader will see your constant avoidance. You have nothing of biblical worth to bring to the table. That is why you run every time you are challenged.

You enjoy playing table tennis with your own balls of avoidance and inability to bring anything of biblical worth to the ping-pong table, I know. But your games are boring and monotonous and highly predictable and you have not answered my two simple questions because you cannot answer them so yes, I'm walking away from your table - it's too low for me anyway because it's made for kiddies.

1. Where in Revelation 12 does it say that Satan was chained and thrown into the abyss and a seal set on him in order that he can deceive the nations no more for a thousand years? PROVIDE THE VERSE/S IN REVELATION 12 PLEASE.

2. Where in Revelation 20:1-8 does it say that Satan was cast down to earth having great rage and went to war first against the woman who gave birth to the Child, and then against the rest of her offspring who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Christ? PROVIDE THE VERSE/S IN REVELATION 20 PLEASE.

 

[WPM]

The reader will see your constant avoidance. You have nothing of biblical worth to bring to the table. That is why you run every time you are challenged.

You enjoy playing table tennis with your own balls of avoidance and inability to bring anything of biblical worth to the ping-pong table, I know. But your games are boring and monotonous and highly predictable and you have not answered my two simple questions because you cannot answer them so yes, I'm walking away from your table - it's too low for me anyway because it's made for kiddies.

1. Where in Revelation 12 does it say that Satan was chained and thrown into the abyss and a seal set on him in order that he can deceive the nations no more for a thousand years? PROVIDE THE VERSE/S IN REVELATION 12 PLEASE.

2. Where in Revelation 20:1-8 does it say that Satan was cast down to earth having great rage and went to war first against the woman who gave birth to the Child, and then against the rest of her offspring who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Christ? PROVIDE THE VERSE/S IN REVELATION 20 PLEASE.

I answered your questions above. You have avoided mine for years. Telling!!! That is because, Premil enjoys no corroboration. You do not have any answers. No Premillennialist does. If you had some Premil would have given them by now. 25 years of asking online tells a story!

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

just a joke...

Yes, you are.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Oh please. Stop with your copy & paste "list of ridiculous blanket questions" posts.

Why must I answer you about something I do not believe when I have already stated what my belief is about it and you have now once again just proved that either you either lack the required intelligence to read what others reply, or simply cannot be bothered because you are so comfortable in your own blindness?

You are indeed extremely lazy aren't you? No wonder you still believe in Amillennialism.

Once again you prove that you neither know what you are talking about, nor what you are asking about.

But you are incapable of hearing so I do not know why I'm answering you, because I don't of necessity need to answer you again regarding your ridiculous questions because many aside from myself have done so previously - but in your hubris you (and your support @Spiritual Israelite ) have merely replied to me with with

My answers regarding your above questions would in any case be too deep for you because you prove over and over that you do not believe scripture without changing its meaning to comply with Amil.

If you like you can go and read what I wrote on THIS page and on THIS page and THIS page and THIS page and THIS page - because I have spoken about those same Biblical facts in posts here before

- which in you hubris you merely replied to either with or a list of stupid questions like in your posts above which showed you do not even read what people reply to you because your mind is locked, closed, incapable of growing further in the knowledge and understanding of the Word of God because you are incapable of breaking free from your faith in your Amil doctrine.

You have once again just proved that you are so lazy with your "copy & paste post" questions lists that you cannot even copy and paste a post like that without even considering the fact that you are asking blanket questions - some of which falsely state what the person you are talking to believes - like the questions above.

As for the rest of your questions, all this has already been given to you by myself and many others - over and over and over. You have proved you do not believe scripture so why must it be done yet again just because you demand it - yet do not read or hear, and are blind?

Because though it has been proved to you over and over and over that you promote a doctrine that has zero corroboration with scripture, you respond by merely continuing to change the meaning of all scriptures that prove Amil false, in order to force scripture to comply.

For example, though Revelation 20:4-6 and a number of other scriptures have been cited for you, you have determined and are determined to continue to change what it means and to tell scripture what scripture means in order that you may refuse to acknowledge the fact that Revelation 20:4-6 is talking about souls who had been beheaded who were once again physically alive [zao] in their bodies following their own bodily resurrection [anastasis] from the dead at the time of the return of Christ.

You have proved that you are incapable of acknowledging Biblical truth when it's given to you. So why are you asking?

So now in order to help you not to reply with another copy and paste post with statements like "no corroboration with scripture" that you obtain when looking in your mirror, I'm going to copy and paste one of your usual replies for you:



Click reply, and copy & paste the above now into your next post - then you won't have to reach for it in your files in your PC (or wherever you keep all your copy & paste posts).

But just to complete it let me help you with something else you normally answer with:



While I'm about it, here's one for your support @Spiritual Israelite who always supports your ignorance with his own ignorance produced in his own hubris :

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Notice something here in Revelation 20 that the following 4 passages have in common, that being what I underlined in all four.

Revelation 20:3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

Revelation 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Revelation 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.


Revelation 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Why would the latter 3 be meaning a literal place, but that the first one wouldn't be? Or maybe you don't even believe the LOF is a literal place? Therefore, you would at least be remaining consistent throughout, meaning no one is being cast into a literal place anywhere in those 4 verses.

Neither the bottomless pit/abyss nor the lake of fire are literal places. At least, not in the sense of being a literal bottomless pit or a literal lake of fire. The bottomless pit symbolically represents a spiritual condition and the lake of fire symbolically represents the place where unbelievers will spend eternity. In the case of the bottomless pit/abyss, how can symbolic locusts be bound in and later come out of a literal place (see Revelation 9)? It seems they could only be bound in and released from a symbolic place. In the case of the lake of fire, how can death be cast into a literal place? I'll never understand why Premils choose to interpret the most highly symbolic book in the entire Bible as literally as they possibly can.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

1. Satan is a spiritual being.
2. Spiritual chains restraint spiritual beings in Scripture.
3. Revelation is saturated in figurative language.
4. There is NO other Scripture that corroborates the Premillennial interpretation of Revelation 20 that Satan will be bound for a time-span of 1000 years after the Second Advent then released for a "little season" to deceive the nations, and then destroyed.
5. Scripture teaches that Satan has already fell from heaven and now present in the Abyss (John 12:31-33 and Revelation 12:9-13). Peter 2:4, Jude v 6 and Revelation 9:1-11 shows the demonic world in a current spiritually bound condition in the abyss.
6. Matthew 12:22-29, Mark 3:11, 23-27, Luke 10:18-19, Luke 11:20-22, John 12:31-33 Colossians 2:13-15, Hebrews 2:14-15, I John 3:8, Revelation 9:1-11, Revelation 12:7-9 and Revelation 20:2 prove Satan was cast out, bound, defeated, incapacitated, divested of power, disarmed, brought to naught, undone, stripped and spiritually imprisoned through Christ's sinless life, atoning death and triumphant resurrection. Colossians 2:15 tells us: “having spoiled (or divested or disarmed) principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.”
7. The binding of Satan has nothing to do with rendering Satan completely powerless, immobile or inoperative. It is rather to do with a restraint on his activities compared to what he was able to do in Old Testament. It is the limiting of his power, kingship and influence by His defeat 2000 years ago. He is like a dog on a chain. He is shackled. It describes the spoiling of the devil’s house, the destroying of his works, taking the power of death away from him, and as a result, it is the shining of a light on the darkened ignorant nations and the lifting of the deception blinding the Gentiles from embracing Christ.

Well said. Premils seem to have no understanding at all about the effect that Christ's ministry, death and resurrection had on Satan. Paul describes the Gentiles as having been "without Christ", having "no hope" and being "without God in the world" in Old Testament times before Christ came (Ephesians 2:11-13). But, then contrast that with Revelation 7:9 which describes "a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues" of saved people.

The binding of Satan changed things drastically from few people being saved in Old Testament times, most of which were from Israel, to "a great multitude" of people from all nations being saved in New Testament times. Once Jesus came to destroy the works of the devil (1 John 3:8), Satan was no longer able to wield the power of death that he used to keep people in bondage to the fear of death in Old Testament times (Hebrews 2:14-15). Premils never talk about these things. They act as if nothing changed as it relates to Satan from Old Testament times to New Testament times, which couldn't be further from the truth.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Apollyon is not Satan

What is your understanding of the locusts described in Revelation 9? Do you think they are literal locusts or symbolically describe something else? Many people, including myself, believe that they symbolically represent fallen angels/demons. This is what it says about their leader.

Revelation 9:11 And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon.

Notice he is described as "the angel of the bottomless pit". That makes him a fallen angel. And the locusts have him as their king. That makes the locusts angels as well. Who does scripture say is the king of the fallen angels? Satan. The rest of the fallen angels besides Satan himself are called "his angels" (Revelation 12:9, Matthew 25:41) in relation to the devil/Satan. So, this is strong evidence for the belief that Apollyon is another name for Satan. He has other names like "Lucifer", "The Devil", and "Beelzebub", also.

 

[David in NJ]

What is your understanding of the locusts described in Revelation 9? Do you think they are literal locusts or symbolically describe something else? Many people, including myself, believe that they symbolically represent fallen angels/demons. This is what it says about their leader.

Revelation 9:11 And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon.

Notice he is described as "the angel of the bottomless pit". That makes him a fallen angel. And the locusts have him as their king. That makes the locusts angels as well. Who does scripture say is the king of the fallen angels? Satan. The rest of the fallen angels besides Satan himself are called "his angels" (Revelation 12:9, Matthew 25:41) in relation to the devil/Satan. So, this is strong evidence for the belief that Apollyon is another name for Satan. He has other names like "Lucifer", "The Devil", and "Beelzebub", also.

Many people, including myself, believe that they symbolically represent fallen angels/demons.

Yes, we can speculate as such.

a demon is not a fallen angel = there are distinctions between the two = but both are evil

Since they are demons or a derivative of such, then most, if not all, angels have authority over them as angels are a higher authority over demons

GOD, who is in Control of the events assigned a specific angel over them = Apollyon

Thus Apollyon is king over these creatures = he is NOT king over the fallen angels

All fallen angels, demons, evil spirits are destroyers of mankind = none are here to help us = they are here to DESTROY us

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Not to mention, look what these locusts set out to do once released then compare with what satan does once released.

Revelation 9:4 And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads

That they should hurt only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads

Matthew 12:26 And if Satan cast out Satan, he is divided against himself; how shall then his kingdom stand?

Matthew 12:26 is where Jesus proved that He could not have been casting demons out of people by the power of Satan because that would mean Satan was divided against himself. What does that have to do with Revelation 9:4?

Revelation 20:9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

Therefore, if Amil is correct---this indicates--That they should hurt only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads = And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city = absurd nonsense.

What are you talking about here?

Granted, that is not Amils' position, except that would have to be the logical conclusion to arrive at if the loosing of the locusts are connected with the loosing of satan. Everybody knows that those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads = the camp of satan. Everybody knows, thus can read, when satan is loosed, he does not wage war on his own camp, he wages war on the camp of the saints. Therefore, Revelation 9:1-11 = Revelation 20:7-9 = nonsense.

Because of your carnal way of thinking, you often miss spiritual truth. What do you think is the result of the fallen angels tormenting those without the seal of God in their foreheads (Holy Spirit)? If you continue reading in Revelation 9, it shows that despite the torment those people go through with what is described in the fifth and sixth trumpets, it says this...

Revelation 9:20 And the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues yet repented not of the works of their hands, that they should not worship devils, and idols of gold, and silver, and brass, and stone, and of wood: which neither can see, nor hear, nor walk: 21 Neither repented they of their murders, nor of their sorceries, nor of their fornication, nor of their thefts.

They don't repent of their sins and instead continue in them. These are the kind of people who oppose Christ and the church because they won't want to answer to anyone. Their suffering and torment just makes them worse and they become more bitter and more and more opposed to Christ and the church. That's the relationship between Revelation 9 and Revelation 20:7-9.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Yes, we can speculate as such.

a demon is not a fallen angel = there are distinctions between the two = but both are evil

Since they are demons or a derivative of such, then most, if not all, angels have authority over them as angels are a higher authority over demons

GOD, who is in Control of the events assigned a specific angel over them = Apollyon

Thus Apollyon is king over these creatures = he is NOT king over the fallen angels

All fallen angels, demons, evil spirits are destroyers of mankind = none are here to help us = they are here to DESTROY us

@Zao is life @ewq1938

I completely disagree. Tell me what you think the difference is exactly between a fallen angel, a demon and an evil spirit. Do you think demons and evil spirits were created to be evil? If not, what were they before becoming evil? Good spirits? Isn't that what angels are?

It's interesting that you tagged Zao is life and ewq1938 in this post. Though they are premils, I'm not so sure they will agree with you that demons are not fallen angels.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Trillions of angels were created by GOD = all with purpose as well as having differing ranks of authority

The "destroying angel" of Exodus ch12 is NOT Satan = crystal clear

Now when the Pharisees heard it they said, “This fellow does not cast out demons except by Beelzebub, the ruler of the demons.”

But Jesus knew their thoughts, and said to them: “Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation, and every city or house divided against itself will not stand.
If Satan casts out Satan, he is divided against himself. How then will his kingdom stand?

Are you saying you don't think Beelzebub is another name for Satan? It is. It is the name the Pharisees used for Satan. That's why Jesus said what He did immediately after being accused of casting out demons by the power of Beelzebub. He knew they were accusing him of casting out demons by the power of Satan, so that's why He pointed out that by doing so Satan would be divided against himself, so their claim made no sense.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Since GOD is the Only Source of Truth = why not believe His every word = Matt 4:4

Why do we assume we know better???

If we will only embrace JESUS instruction = Matthew 18:1-5 and John 14:15-17

If only you would embrace the teaching of Jesus that heaven and earth will pass away unexpectedly when He returns, resulting in the destruction of all unbelievers (Matthew 24:35-39).

 

[David in NJ]

Are you saying you don't think Beelzebub is another name for Satan? It is. It is the name the Pharisees used for Satan. That's why Jesus said what He did immediately after being accused of casting out demons by the power of Beelzebub. He knew they were accusing him of casting out demons by the power of Satan, so that's why He pointed out that by doing so Satan would be divided against himself, so their claim made no sense.

SEE , demons are not fallen angels and the Jews are trying to attack the credibility by claiming JESUS power/authority comes from Beelzebub.

Thus JESUS corrects them and separates Beelzebub from Satan

But Jesus knew their thoughts, and said to them: “Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation, and every city or house divided against itself will not stand. 26If Satan casts out Satan, he is divided against himself. How then will his kingdom stand? 27And if I cast out demons by Beelzebub, by whom do your sons cast them out? Therefore they shall be your judges. 28But if I cast out demons by the Spirit of God, surely the kingdom of God has come upon you. 29Or how can one enter a strong man’s house and plunder his goods, unless he first binds the strong man? And then he will plunder his house. 30He who is not with Me is against Me, and he who does not gather with Me scatters abroad.

 

[David in NJ]

If only you would embrace the teaching of Jesus that heaven and earth will pass away unexpectedly when He returns, resulting in the destruction of all unbelievers (Matthew 24:35-39).

JESUS never said that heaven and earth pass away at His Second Coming.

That is reserved for AFTER Satan is locked up, the 1,000 Year Period and Satan is released.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Revelation 2:10 Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.

Regardless what this looks like, the devil casting some into prison, one thing is for certain, it is absurd that the devil would be doing this while he himself is in prison.

Revelation 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

Either Revelation 2:10 is involving an era of time before satan gets cast into prison, or it's involving an era of time after he is loosed from his prison. Revelation 2:10 clearly isn't involving an era of time when satan himself is in prison. It doesn't matter whether satan's prison is literal or not. It is absurd that while satan himself is depicted as having been cast into prison, that he would then be casting others into another prison. I then wonder if Amils have Revelation 2:10 paralleling their millennium? Be pretty funny if they did.

You continue to insist that a spirit being like Satan can be literally chained up in a literal prison, which makes no sense. Revelation 2:10 describes something that God allowed in order that the believers in the church in Smyrna "may be tried" and if they passed the test by being "faithful unto death", then Jesus "will give thee a crown of life". This is a case of God using Satan to fulfill His purpose of testing the faith of believers in the first century church in Smyrna. That has nothing to do with Satan being bound or not at the time.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

SEE , demons are not fallen angels and the Jews are trying to attack the credibility by claiming JESUS power/authority comes from Beelzebub.

Thus JESUS corrects them and separates Beelzebub from Satan

Nope. Your spiritual discernment about Satan, fallen angels and demons is very lacking.

In another post, I asked you to tell me the difference between a fallen angel, a demon and an evil spirit. You differentiated between them, but didn't explain why or exactly how you differentiate between them. Unless you do that, I can't take you seriously about this.

As I said, the Pharisees called Satan by another of his names, which is Beelzebub. Jesus called him by his more common name of Satan. Why would Jesus respond to their claims about Him casting out demons by the power of Beelzebub by referencing Satan if Satan is not Beelzebub? If Beelzebub is not Satan, then why wouldn't Jesus have talked about if Beelzebub cast out Beelzebub then he'd be divided against himself instead of saying that about Satan?

 

[David in NJ]

Nope. Your spiritual discernment about Satan, fallen angels and demons is very lacking.

In another post, I asked you to tell me the difference between a fallen angel, a demon and an evil spirit. You differentiated between them, but didn't explain why or exactly how you differentiate between them. Unless you do that, I can't take you seriously about this.

As I said, the Pharisees called Satan by another of his names, which is Beelzebub. Jesus called him by his more common name of Satan. Why would Jesus respond to their claims about Him casting out demons by the power of Beelzebub by referencing Satan if Satan is not Beelzebub? If Beelzebub is not Satan, then why wouldn't Jesus have talked about if Beelzebub cast out Beelzebub then he'd be divided against himself instead of saying that about Satan?

the Pharisees were in the DARK with very limited understanding of the spiritual world

Thus why the LORD is always correcting them = you should take note of that just as i have

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

The following passage, for one, supports that. But what does that have to do with satan being bound a thousand years?

2 Corinthians 4:3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:
4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
5 For we preach not ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord; and ourselves your servants for Jesus' sake.
6 For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.
7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.


Yet I wonder if some interpreters fully understand that passage? I only quoted verse 3-7, yet verses 8-18 are to be considered as well in order to better grasp what is being taught here.

In the verses above, this comes first--the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not. The remedy is then this---the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them. Except that does the lost no good if this is the case---if our gospel be hid. Therefore, satan doesn't need to be bound in order to spread the gospel of Christ. Our gospel needs to not be hidden in order to spread the gospel of Christ.

Therefore, the saved have the responsibility for spreading the gospel of Christ. satan isn't bound so that the gospel of Christ can spread. Obviously, satan is not bound when he is blinding the minds of those that believe not. How does that make sense that satan is bound so that he can't prevent the spread of the gospel of Christ, while he continues to blind the minds of those that believe not?

Was the gospel of Christ not being spread in the world just because Satan was allowed to blind the minds of some? No, it was still being spread throughout the world. Satan can only blind the minds "of them which believe not". He didn't make them "believe not" in the first place. By blinding some, he is not preventing the gospel from being spread. Amils believe that he is bound from preventing the spread of the gospel in the world, not bound from trying to deceive any people at all.

Tell me this. Do you think that anything had to be done in relation to Satan in order for the gospel to be able to spread throughout the world in order to shine light into the darkness and give people the hope of eternal life?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

the Pharisees were in the DARK with very limited understanding of the spiritual world

Thus why the LORD is always correcting them = you should take note of that just as i have

This does not address my point at all. The Pharisees called him Beelzebub. Jesus called him Satan. They were not talking about different beings, regardless of how they named them. The Pharisees accused Jesus of casting out demons with the power of Satan, but they called Him Beelzebub because he has multiple names. Jesus responding by referring to Satan in the exact same context of them referring to Beelzebub shows that Beelzebub and Satan are names for the same being.