Is it possible to lose salvation?

[LoveYeshua]

Agreed, the original 12 are a bit special, they have the heavenly pillars with their names on them

Revelation 21;14
''And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.''

Perhaps Paul is not mentioned because he, like David, had too much blood on his hands.

I agree, the fact that Jesus rebuked Paul directly and blinded him points to this.

 

[Nancy]

So in the end the Lord is a respecter of persons and He loves some more than others?

Did God love David? Of course He did, he was the apple of His eye, a man after God's heart. But God did not allow David to build the temple, God decreed that to his son Solomon. Why? Because David had so much blood on his hands.

1 Chronicles 28 2-4
''2 Then King David rose to his feet and said, “Listen to me, my brothers and my people. It was in my heart to build a house as a resting place for the ark of the covenant of the LORD and as a footstool for our God. I had made preparations to build it, 3but God said to me, ‘You are not to build a house for My Name, because you are a man of war who has spilled blood.’ 4Yet the LORD, the God of Israel, chose me out of all my father’s house to be king over Israel forever. For He chose Judah as leader, and from the house of Judah He chose my father’s household, and from my father’s sons He was pleased to make me king over all Israel.…''

 

[GodsGrace]

The differences in authority given by Jesus (God) the 12 and Paul are Major. Jesus gave the Twelve a unique place that no one else received. He chose them while He was on earth. They walked with Him, heard His voice, and learned directly from Him. for mote than 3 years. After His resurrection, Jesus came to them and gave them the Holy Spirit in a very direct and personal way. Scripture says, “So Jesus said to them again, ‘Peace to you. As the Father has sent Me, I also send you.’ And when He had said this, He breathed on them, and said to them, ‘Receive the Holy Spirit.’” (John 20:21–22). This moment is important, because Jesus Himself breathed on them, just as God breathed life into Adam in the beginning.

Right after this, Jesus gave them authority that He did not give to everyone. He said, “If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven them; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained.” (John 20:23). This authority over sins was spoken only to the disciples who were with Him.

Earlier, during His ministry, Jesus had already given them power and authority. The Scripture says, “Then He called His twelve disciples together and gave them power and authority over all demons, and to cure diseases.” (Luke 9:1). This power came directly from Jesus. He also made it clear that this calling did not come from their own choice. He said, “You did not choose Me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit, and that your fruit should remain.” (John 15:16).

Jesus also told them that they were given understanding that others did not have. He said, “But blessed are your eyes for they see, and your ears for they hear.” (Matthew 13:16). To Peter, speaking for the Twelve, Jesus gave authority connected to the Kingdom itself. He said, “And I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.” (Matthew 16:19).

Jesus also promised the Twelve a future role that belongs only to them. He said, “Assuredly I say to you, that in the regeneration, when the Son of Man sits on the throne of His glory, you who have followed Me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.” (Matthew 19:28). This promise is not given to later believers, but only to those who followed Him during His earthly walk.

This special place of the Twelve is also shown at the very end of Scripture, in the description of the New Jerusalem. John writes, “Now the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and on them were the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.” (Revelation 21:14). The eternal city itself carries their names. No other names are written on the foundations. This shows that their role is fixed forever in God’s plan.

When we compare this with Paul, the difference is clear from Scripture itself. Paul was not chosen during Jesus’ earthly ministry and did not walk with Him before the cross. Paul encountered Jesus later, through a vision. Scripture says, “Then he fell to the ground, and heard a voice saying to him, ‘Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting Me?’ And he said, ‘Who are You, Lord?’ Then the Lord said, ‘I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting. It is hard for you to kick against the goads.’” (Acts 9:4–5).

After his rebuke from Jesus, Paul did not receive the Holy Spirit by Jesus breathing on him. Instead, God sent another disciple to him. The Scripture says, “Then Ananias went his way and entered the house; and laying his hands on him he said, ‘Brother Saul, the Lord Jesus, who appeared to you on the road as you came, has sent me that you may receive your sight and be filled with the Holy Spirit.’ Immediately there fell from his eyes something like scales, and he received his sight at once; and he arose and was baptized.” (Acts 9:17–18).

Paul was given a mission, but not the same position as the Twelve. The Lord said, “But the Lord said to him, ‘Go, for he is a chosen vessel of Mine to bear My name before Gentiles, kings, and the children of Israel.’” (Acts 9:15). Paul was chosen as a vessel to carry the message, not as one of the Twelve who were given authority over sins, the keys of the Kingdom, promised thrones, and eternal foundations in the New Jerusalem.

Scripture also shows that Paul later went to the apostles, not that they went to him. He says, “Then after three years I went up to Jerusalem to see Peter, and remained with him fifteen days.” (Galatians 1:18). When Judas was replaced, Paul was not chosen. The Scripture says, “And they cast their lots, and the lot fell on Matthias. And he was numbered with the eleven apostles.” (Acts 1:26). This happened before Paul’s ministry began.

All of this shows, clearly and simply, that the Twelve received a special status directly from Jesus Himself. They were chosen in person, taught in person, received the Spirit directly from Him, were given authority over sins, entrusted with the keys of the Kingdom, promised thrones in the age to come, and have their names written forever on the foundations of the New Jerusalem. Paul was called later, through a vision, received the Spirit through another disciple, and was sent to preach, but he did not receive the same authority, position, or eternal promises that Jesus gave to the Twelve. This comes straight from Scripture, without adding or removing anything. @rvmb

Nothing to add.
Great post!
Agreed 100%.

 

[rvmb]

No, my claim is the rest of God's Word is just as important as what the Lord taught thru Paul.

If you are going to participate in these discussions you should at least try and keep up.

""No, my claim is the rest of God's Word is just as important as what the Lord taught thru Paul.""
Absolutely, when correctly applied to the right age & audience.
eg Was John the Baptist saved by the Gospel of Paul Eph 1:13, 1 Cor 15:1-4 ?
If so, please try and keep up and supply the verses that teach that

Pauls teachings are there for a very specific reason but you csnnot see it.

Now Pauls teaching apply to the believers spoken of in Gal 3:28, 1 Cor 12:13, Col 3:11, Gal 6:15.
Are you one of those ??

 

[Christian Soldier]

Look in the o.p. 2 examples there for you to see but you wont.

I took the time and went back to the o.p. hoping to find the elusive non existent doctrine and sure enough there was nothing there to even vaguely support your private unbiblical theory.

I'm astounded by your insistence that such a doctrine actually exists, you have been trying to prove it by referring to non existent scriptures.

I'm at a loss to understand your motive for holding on to this illusion.

 

[Christian Soldier]

From the very beginning, Scripture shows that salvation is a real relationship—and real relationships always involve choice. God does not create puppets. He offers Himself, He gives life, He draws near, and then He allows His creatures to respond. That response matters, not only at the beginning but all the way through.

Adam is the first and clearest example. He was not born fallen. God formed him from the dust, breathed His own holiness and life into him, and placed him in Eden with direct access to His presence. Adam stood there as a true image-bearer, a living soul in whom God’s own Spirit dwelt. And yet even in that state, Adam was not locked into obedience. He was given a command and a choice. When he chose to trust the serpent’s lie instead of God’s word, the consequence was not merely a bad feeling—it was removal. He was driven out of Eden, barred from the tree of life, and separated from the intimate fellowship he once had. Adam’s story tells us something crucial: even with God’s holiness present, God did not erase human freedom. A real relationship allowed for a real fall.

The whole history of Israel repeats this pattern on a national scale. God chose Abraham, rescued Israel from Egypt, gave them His Law, His sanctuary, His promises—and yet constantly set before them the reality of choice: “If you seek Me, I will be found by you; but if you forsake Me, I will cast you off.” The golden calf, the wilderness generation that fell, Saul’s rejection, the division of the kingdom, the northern tribes turning to idols—all are stories of people who truly belonged to God, truly experienced His blessings, and then chose to walk away. Names could be written in God’s book, and names could be blotted out. Covenant privilege was real; so was covenant loss. Choice is never treated as an illusion in the Old Testament. Love, trust, and obedience are invited—and refusal has consequences.

When Jesus comes, He does not cancel this reality. He deepens it. His parables are full of people who begin well and then choose otherwise. In the parable of the ten virgins, all ten start in the right place. All are waiting for the Bridegroom. All have lamps. At the beginning, there is no visible difference between them. But as time stretches, a dividing line quietly forms: five choose to continue seeking oil, five do not. The outcome is not decided by the fact that they once held lamps, but by what they choose to do with what they were given. Those who continued in readiness go into the wedding; those who did not are shut out. It is a parable about perseverance, but underneath that, it is a parable about ongoing choice—will you keep coming back for oil, or will you drift into neglect?

The parable of the soils makes the same point in a different picture. One Sower, one seed—the Word of God—but four kinds of response. Some hearts are hard and never receive. But others do receive the word with joy, spring up quickly, and then fall away when trouble comes. Others begin to grow, but the cares and pleasures of life slowly choke them, and they become unfruitful. Only the good soil continues to hear, to hold the word fast, and to bear fruit with patience. In other words, there are real beginnings that do not end well—not because the seed was defective, but because, over time, people choose other priorities, other loyalties, other comforts. The seed is the same; the difference is what the heart decides to do with it.

Jesus’ teaching in John 15 presses this further. He speaks of branches that are “in Me” and yet are taken away if they bear no fruit. Branches that do not abide are cast out, wither, and are burned. These are not strangers to the Vine; they are described as being “in” Him. But abiding is not a one-time act; it is a continuous choice to remain, to draw life from Him, to let His words stay in us. The warning assumes that someone who truly begins in Christ can later decide not to remain.

Paul reads Israel’s story and applies it directly to the church. In Romans 11, he pictures God’s people as an olive tree. Israel’s unbelieving branches were broken off, and Gentile believers were grafted in. They now stand by faith where Israel once stood. But Paul does not say, “Now that you’re in, nothing you do can change it.” Instead, he says, “Do not be haughty, but fear… if God did not spare the natural branches, He may not spare you either… otherwise you also will be cut off.” Their position is real, but so is the possibility of being cut off if they choose pride and unbelief. In Galatians, he speaks of people who have “fallen from grace”; in the pastoral letters, he talks about some who have “departed from the faith” or suffered “shipwreck.” None of that language makes sense if choice has been cancelled.

Hebrews gathers all of this into very sober appeals. It warns against developing “an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God” and insists that we have become partakers of Christ “if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end.” It describes people who have been enlightened, tasted the heavenly gift, shared in the Holy Spirit—and then fallen away. Again the issue is not whether their start was genuine, but that over time, they chose to turn aside. The writer pleads with his readers, “Today, if you hear His voice, do not harden your hearts.” That “today” call only makes sense if the heart still has the capacity to soften or harden in response.

Even Revelation, with its dramatic imagery, keeps this line intact. Jesus warns churches that their lampstands can be removed if they will not repent. He promises the overcomer that He will not blot out his name from the Book of Life—a promise that only has force if blotting out is possible. At the very end, we hear that a person’s part can be taken away from the tree of life and the holy city if they despise or twist God’s Word. Again, this is not about God being fickle; it is about God taking human choices seriously all the way to the end.

Taken together, these passages paint a consistent picture: God truly saves, truly writes names in His book, truly breathes His Spirit into people, and truly grafts them into His family. But He never does it in a way that erases their will. Adam, with God’s holiness breathed into him, still had to choose—and he chose to turn away. Israel, with miracles, Law, and promises, still chose idols and was exiled. Disciples, with lamps in hand and seed in their hearts, still must decide whether they will continue in what they’ve received or drift away. The wise virgins are wise because they keep choosing to seek oil. The good soil is good because it keeps choosing to hold fast and bear fruit. The branch remains in the vine because it chooses, day after day, to abide.

Salvation, then, is not fragile—but it is personal. It is a living covenant with a God who will never stop being faithful, yet who refuses to force love or obedience. He calls, He warns, He strengthens, He disciplines, He comforts—and He keeps the door open for those who will keep coming back. Scripture’s story of choice is not meant to fill us with fear that God is eager to throw us out; it is meant to sober us into realizing that our response to Him really matters. The same God who breathed life into Adam and watched him choose the wrong tree is now, in Christ, offering His Spirit again and asking: Will you remain? Will you keep coming for oil, keep hearing My word, keep choosing Me—today, and tomorrow, and to the end?

Thanks for taking the time to share your private version of the gospel, but Gods Word instructs me to respond in the following way to your version of the gospel. >>>>

As we have said before, so now I say again, if anyone preaches any other gospel to you than what you have received, let him be accursed.

As you can see, preaching your "saved by works" version of the gospel brings a curse. The true gospel message states that we are "saved by grace" and not by works, as you're suggesting.

 

[Christian Soldier]

The context in each case is correct. The all means all.

The objective salvation refers to what Christ did to redeem His creation from the fall, death. Man lost life, became mortal.
Without Christ's eventual coming man and the world would simply succumb to death. God created man to be immortal, to be in communion with Him. This is what was lost in the fall.,
Now death came to all men, all humans if you want. Rom 5:12 is quite explicit in establishing death as universal. Then in Rom 5:15-17 he builds to the climax of vs 18 which shows the equation between universal death (mortality) by Adam, and universal life through Christ.
I Cor 15:12-19 is addressing the relationship of Christ's resurrection to our own resurrection, or the objective, redemption of mankind from the curse of the fall. Vs 20-22 cannot state it more clearly. It is again an equation. Those all that died, became mortal through Adam, the first Adam, were made alive through the resurrection of Christ, the second Adam.

This is all Incarnational. Col 1P:20 again is very clear that "all" things were given to Christ to redeem. Those vs from John 6:39-40, as I cited before shows clearly the separation of objective, Christ's work and the subjective, man's response to God's call to all men to repent.
Your view explicitly denies the Incarnation and the reversal of the curse upon mankind. Many additional texts that I cited in my earlier post also apply here.

A note on you use of elect. God does not choose who will be elect. The elect are those that have seen and believed. When one is baptised, one enters the Kingdom of God, and become the elect..


You will never find any text or context in scripture that states God chose a remnant that He would save, redeem, and then leave the rest to hades. The problem with this concept is that Christ's redemptive work actually made possible the existence of hell for those that do not choose Him as their Savior. Christ's redemptive work makes the New Heaven and the New Earth possible. And it is man who decides where he will spend eternity. Christ will judge, but He judges on what each man has done in his lifetime. God is love, loves mankind, is not respective of persons.

You make strong statements when you have not shown that your theology is based on scripture as it has always been understood from the beginning. You have a lot of inferences of man made opinions of scripture. Can you show that the Apostles actually believed what you state? The Incarnation is actually one of the hallmarks of historical Christianity, that is Christ became Man, for our sakes. Your theology actually denies it even happens, or possibly happened but has no effect.

I don't have the time to teach you the basic fundamentals of theology. It's obvious you don't know the biblical ABC's, so we're not going to achieve anything good by discussing topics which are well outside of your capacity to deal with.

I'd like to suggest you join a bible study class for beginners. It will equip you with some knowledge, and then you may have something worthwhile to contribute.

Your current theology is not supported by the bible, it doesn't line up with any systematic theology.

 

[GodsGrace]

From the very beginning, Scripture shows that salvation is a real relationship—and real relationships always involve choice. God does not create puppets. He offers Himself, He gives life, He draws near, and then He allows His creatures to respond. That response matters, not only at the beginning but all the way through.

Adam is the first and clearest example. He was not born fallen. God formed him from the dust, breathed His own holiness and life into him, and placed him in Eden with direct access to His presence. Adam stood there as a true image-bearer, a living soul in whom God’s own Spirit dwelt. And yet even in that state, Adam was not locked into obedience. He was given a command and a choice. When he chose to trust the serpent’s lie instead of God’s word, the consequence was not merely a bad feeling—it was removal. He was driven out of Eden, barred from the tree of life, and separated from the intimate fellowship he once had. Adam’s story tells us something crucial: even with God’s holiness present, God did not erase human freedom. A real relationship allowed for a real fall.

The whole history of Israel repeats this pattern on a national scale. God chose Abraham, rescued Israel from Egypt, gave them His Law, His sanctuary, His promises—and yet constantly set before them the reality of choice: “If you seek Me, I will be found by you; but if you forsake Me, I will cast you off.” The golden calf, the wilderness generation that fell, Saul’s rejection, the division of the kingdom, the northern tribes turning to idols—all are stories of people who truly belonged to God, truly experienced His blessings, and then chose to walk away. Names could be written in God’s book, and names could be blotted out. Covenant privilege was real; so was covenant loss. Choice is never treated as an illusion in the Old Testament. Love, trust, and obedience are invited—and refusal has consequences.

When Jesus comes, He does not cancel this reality. He deepens it. His parables are full of people who begin well and then choose otherwise. In the parable of the ten virgins, all ten start in the right place. All are waiting for the Bridegroom. All have lamps. At the beginning, there is no visible difference between them. But as time stretches, a dividing line quietly forms: five choose to continue seeking oil, five do not. The outcome is not decided by the fact that they once held lamps, but by what they choose to do with what they were given. Those who continued in readiness go into the wedding; those who did not are shut out. It is a parable about perseverance, but underneath that, it is a parable about ongoing choice—will you keep coming back for oil, or will you drift into neglect?

The parable of the soils makes the same point in a different picture. One Sower, one seed—the Word of God—but four kinds of response. Some hearts are hard and never receive. But others do receive the word with joy, spring up quickly, and then fall away when trouble comes. Others begin to grow, but the cares and pleasures of life slowly choke them, and they become unfruitful. Only the good soil continues to hear, to hold the word fast, and to bear fruit with patience. In other words, there are real beginnings that do not end well—not because the seed was defective, but because, over time, people choose other priorities, other loyalties, other comforts. The seed is the same; the difference is what the heart decides to do with it.

Jesus’ teaching in John 15 presses this further. He speaks of branches that are “in Me” and yet are taken away if they bear no fruit. Branches that do not abide are cast out, wither, and are burned. These are not strangers to the Vine; they are described as being “in” Him. But abiding is not a one-time act; it is a continuous choice to remain, to draw life from Him, to let His words stay in us. The warning assumes that someone who truly begins in Christ can later decide not to remain.

Paul reads Israel’s story and applies it directly to the church. In Romans 11, he pictures God’s people as an olive tree. Israel’s unbelieving branches were broken off, and Gentile believers were grafted in. They now stand by faith where Israel once stood. But Paul does not say, “Now that you’re in, nothing you do can change it.” Instead, he says, “Do not be haughty, but fear… if God did not spare the natural branches, He may not spare you either… otherwise you also will be cut off.” Their position is real, but so is the possibility of being cut off if they choose pride and unbelief. In Galatians, he speaks of people who have “fallen from grace”; in the pastoral letters, he talks about some who have “departed from the faith” or suffered “shipwreck.” None of that language makes sense if choice has been cancelled.

Hebrews gathers all of this into very sober appeals. It warns against developing “an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God” and insists that we have become partakers of Christ “if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end.” It describes people who have been enlightened, tasted the heavenly gift, shared in the Holy Spirit—and then fallen away. Again the issue is not whether their start was genuine, but that over time, they chose to turn aside. The writer pleads with his readers, “Today, if you hear His voice, do not harden your hearts.” That “today” call only makes sense if the heart still has the capacity to soften or harden in response.

Even Revelation, with its dramatic imagery, keeps this line intact. Jesus warns churches that their lampstands can be removed if they will not repent. He promises the overcomer that He will not blot out his name from the Book of Life—a promise that only has force if blotting out is possible. At the very end, we hear that a person’s part can be taken away from the tree of life and the holy city if they despise or twist God’s Word. Again, this is not about God being fickle; it is about God taking human choices seriously all the way to the end.

Taken together, these passages paint a consistent picture: God truly saves, truly writes names in His book, truly breathes His Spirit into people, and truly grafts them into His family. But He never does it in a way that erases their will. Adam, with God’s holiness breathed into him, still had to choose—and he chose to turn away. Israel, with miracles, Law, and promises, still chose idols and was exiled. Disciples, with lamps in hand and seed in their hearts, still must decide whether they will continue in what they’ve received or drift away. The wise virgins are wise because they keep choosing to seek oil. The good soil is good because it keeps choosing to hold fast and bear fruit. The branch remains in the vine because it chooses, day after day, to abide.

Salvation, then, is not fragile—but it is personal. It is a living covenant with a God who will never stop being faithful, yet who refuses to force love or obedience. He calls, He warns, He strengthens, He disciplines, He comforts—and He keeps the door open for those who will keep coming back. Scripture’s story of choice is not meant to fill us with fear that God is eager to throw us out; it is meant to sober us into realizing that our response to Him really matters. The same God who breathed life into Adam and watched him choose the wrong tree is now, in Christ, offering His Spirit again and asking: Will you remain? Will you keep coming for oil, keep hearing My word, keep choosing Me—today, and tomorrow, and to the end?

Hi CTK,,,,
I've been reading such great posts on here lately.
More than ususal, I should say.

No. 4675 by @LoveYeshua and yours above are excellent!
They're practically a complete lesson in salvation history.

Although it's not addressed to me,,,
I thank you!

 

[Christian Soldier]

Could you please answer my question?

I ask you please, are the words recorded in the New Testament, advice for any Christian to Keep in mind and observe, or is a "saved" person exempt from some of the words in the New Testament?

Do you have any scriptures that explain "Saved Believers" do not need to observe all the words in the New Testament? 2 Timothy 3:16

Your question doesn't make any sense, it's not even a valid question because you haven't identified which "words" are troubling you.
How about you identify the offending words and I'll see if I can help you deal with them.

 

[LoveYeshua]

I took the time and went back to the o.p. hoping to find the elusive non existent doctrine and sure enough there was nothing there to even vaguely support your private unbiblical theory.

I'm astounded by your insistence that such a doctrine actually exists, you have been trying to prove it by referring to non existent scriptures.

I'm at a loss to understand your motive for holding on to this illusion. \

Why did Jesus say;
“Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it.” (Matthew 7:13–14)??

“Strive to enter through the narrow gate, for many, I say to you, will seek to enter and will not be able.” (Luke 13:24)

“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.” (Matthew 7:21)

“Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name…?’ And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness.’” (Matthew 7:22–23)

“When once the Master of the house has risen up and shut the door, and you begin to stand outside and knock, saying, ‘Lord, Lord, open for us,’ and He will answer and say to you, ‘I do not know you, where you are from.’” (Luke 13:25)

Do these verses look like everyone will make it ? Do these verses look to you as eternal salvation? Can you explain what these verse say and why?

 

[Rightglory]

I don't have the time to teach you the basic fundamentals of theology. It's obvious you don't know the biblical ABC's, so we're not going to achieve anything good by discussing topics which are well outside of your capacity to deal with.

Meaning you cannot refute what I have stated from scripture. Your so-called fundamentals are shown to be mostly your personal opinion with some other man-made reformational dogma. Your statement regarding "election" is reformational Calvinism. Hardly the Gospel from the beginning, preserved by the Holy Spirit in His Church I Tim 3:15

I'd like to suggest you join a bible study class for beginners. It will equip you with some knowledge, and then you may have something worthwhile to contribute.

Your comments here are typical of one who cannot refute scripture when it does not align with one's own personal interpretation. Including the post directly above this one. If your understanding is scriptural, not opinion, you should be able to answer the questions the poster raises easily. Yet you obfuscate, and diminish the opposing view as you did in this one to me.

Your current theology is not supported by the bible, it doesn't line up with any systematic theology.

What I have stated hss been the unbroken understanding of scripture from the beginning. The Doctrine of the Incarnation has existed for 2000 years and has not changed. You have accepted either your own interpretation, which is quite common on these boards, or some other man's interpretation that has no acceptance as understood from the beginning. I asked you if you had any evidence that your belief can be supported as Biblical from the beginning. Apparently that is not possible, since you have made no attempt to do so.

Best regards,

 

[GodsGrace]

Meaning you cannot refute what I have stated from scripture. Your so-called fundamentals are shown to be mostly your personal opinion with some other man-made reformational dogma. Your statement regarding "election" is reformational Calvinism. Hardly the Gospel from the beginning, preserved by the Holy Spirit in His Church I Tim 3:15

Your comments here are typical of one who cannot refute scripture when it does not align with one's own personal interpretation.

What I have stated hss been the unbroken understanding of scripture from the beginning. The Doctrine of the Incarnation has existed for 2000 years and has not changed. You have accepted either your own interpretation, which is quite common on these boards, or some other man's interpretation that has no acceptance as understood from the beginning. I asked you if you had any evidence that your belief can be supported as Biblical from the beginning. Apparently that is not possible, since you have made no attempt to do so.

Best regards,

And this from a member that DEMANDS scripture ... only to refute all of it...
and throw some personal insults at members while doing so.

And it is rather entertaining to me when a poster will post every bit of reformed theology,,,,
but then assert that they are not calvinist in their theology.

Yes sir....Christian theology has existed for 2 thousand years, and dare I say that the new teachings are most certainly from MAN and those that follow those teachings are following MEN and not JESUS.

Some of these men that have attempted (and succeeded in some way) are
JOSEPH SMITH
CHARLES RUSSELL
ELLEN WHITE
JOHN CALVIN who most definitely has presented a different gospel.

 

[LoveYeshua]

To complement the O.P. ;

Jesus Himself clearly taught that the way to eternal life is not easy and that few truly reach it. He did not hide this truth or soften it. He warned plainly that many walk a road that ends in destruction, while only a small number remain on the path that leads to life. As He said, “Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it.” (Matthew 7:13–14). These are not words of fear, but words of truth. Salvation is not automatic, and it is not guaranteed simply because someone once believed. Only those who continue to walk in His way will enter the Kingdom of Heaven.

Jesus also warned that some people receive God’s word with joy but do not remain faithful. When hardship comes, their faith collapses. He explained this clearly in the Parable of the Sower, saying, “But he who received the seed on stony places, this is he who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy; yet he has no root in himself, but endures only for a while. For when tribulation or persecution arises because of the word, immediately he stumbles.” (Matthew 13:20–21). This shows that beginning the journey is not enough. Faith must take root and remain alive through trials, or it will die.

Jesus spoke even more strongly when He explained the need to remain united with Him. He said, “If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned.” (John 15:6). A branch only lives as long as it stays connected to the vine. When a person turns away through unbelief or disobedience, spiritual life dries up, and judgment follows.

Jesus also warned that effort and perseverance are required. He said, “Strive to enter through the narrow gate, for many, I say to you, will seek to enter and will not be able.” (Luke 13:24). Wanting salvation is not the same as walking in obedience. Many desire the reward, but few endure the discipline of the path.

He warned against turning back after beginning the journey. His words are firm and clear, “No one, having put his hand to the plow, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God.” (Luke 9:62). Once a person commits to following Him, there can be no return to the old life.

Jesus also taught this truth through parables. In the parable of the ten virgins, all were waiting, all had lamps, but only those who remained ready entered the wedding. When the door was shut, it was shut forever. He ended with this warning, “Watch therefore, for you know neither the day nor the hour in which the Son of Man is coming.” (Matthew 25:13). Being counted among God’s people outwardly is not enough. Faithfulness until the end is required.

In the parable of the talents, the servant who failed to act on what he was given was cast out. This shows that neglecting obedience leads to loss, even after receiving truth. God expects fruit from those He entrusts with His word.

The Old Testament confirms this same truth. God declared through Ezekiel, “But when a righteous man turns away from his righteousness and commits iniquity… none of the righteous deeds which he has done shall be remembered.”(Ezekiel 18:24). Turning away cancels what came before. Faith must remain living and obedient.

King Saul stands as a warning. He was chosen, anointed, and served God, yet because of continued disobedience, God rejected him. Scripture says, “But the Spirit of the Lord departed from Saul.” (1 Samuel 16:14). Obedience mattered then, and it still matters now.

Jesus Himself gave the final summary of salvation when He said, “But he who endures to the end shall be saved.”(Matthew 24:13). Salvation is received at the end by those who remain faithful, not by those who turn back.

The apostles who walked with Jesus confirmed this truth. Peter warned that returning to sin after knowing the truth leads to a worse end, saying, “For if, after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the beginning.” (2 Peter 2:20–21). Knowledge without perseverance brings judgment.

James also warned believers with love and urgency, “Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back, let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death.”(James 5:19–20). A believer can wander, and wandering leads to death unless repentance follows.

Judas Iscariot stands as a sober example. He walked with Jesus, was chosen as one of the twelve, yet betrayed the Lord. Jesus said of him, “It would have been good for that man if he had not been born.” (Matthew 26:24). His fall shows that proximity to truth does not guarantee salvation.

Scripture ends by confirming who the faithful truly are. Speaking of those who remain loyal until the end, it says, “Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.” (Revelation 14:12). These are the ones who endure, obey, believe, and remain faithful.

This is the full testimony of Scripture. Eternal life belongs to those who continue in Christ, walk in obedience, remain humble, and endure until the end. Those who turn away risk losing everything. This is not harshness. This is truth spoken in love, so that all who hear may remain faithful and live.

 

[LoveYeshua]

Many people are convinced that salvation cannot be lost because they rely mainly on a small group of verses, most of them written after Jesus, and they interpret them as absolute guarantees. Common verses they use include statements such as being “sealed,” “chosen,” or “no one can snatch them away.” From these, they conclude that once a person believes, their salvation is permanently secured no matter what happens afterwards.

Some of the verses often used are from Paul’s writings, such as those that speak of believers being sealed, justified, or saved by faith. These passages are read in isolation, without placing them under the authority of Jesus’ own teaching. The assumption becomes this: if salvation is a gift, then human choices afterward cannot affect it.

But this belief collapses immediately when placed next to the words of Jesus Himself.

Jesus never taught that salvation is untouchable or irreversible. Instead, He repeatedly warned His followers about falling away, being cut off, being cast out, and not enduring to the end.

Jesus said plainly, “He who endures to the end shall be saved.” (Matthew 24:13)
If salvation were already guaranteed at the beginning, endurance would not be required.

Jesus warned His own disciples, “If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered.” (John 15:6)
A branch that is cast out was once connected. This is not about unbelievers who never followed Him. It is about those who stop abiding in Christ.

Jesus also said, “Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away.” (John 15:2)
You cannot be “in Him” and then taken away unless loss is possible.

Jesus warned believers that hearing His words is not enough. He said, “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father.” (Matthew 7:21)
These are people who believed, spoke His name, and yet were rejected.

Jesus gave parables that make no sense if salvation cannot be lost. In the parable of the sower, some believe for a while and then fall away. In the parable of the ten virgins, all were waiting for Him, yet some were shut out. In the parable of the talents, a servant who belonged to the master was cast out for unfaithfulness.

Jesus even warned churches, not outsiders. He said, “Remember therefore from where you have fallen; repent.”(Revelation 2:5)
You cannot fall from a place you were never in.

So how do people still claim salvation cannot be lost?

Because they start with Paul and then reinterpret Jesus, instead of starting with Jesus and understanding everything else through Him.

Jesus is the son of GOD, the Messiah, Jesus is the Teacher. Jesus is the Judge. Jesus said, “The word that I have spoken will judge him in the last day.” (John 12:48)

If any interpretation says, “A believer cannot fall away,” but Jesus says, “If you do not remain, you will be cut off,” then the interpretation is wrong.

Jesus never once said, “Once you are saved, you are always saved.”
But He repeatedly said, “Remain,” “abide,” “endure,” “watch,” “be faithful,” and “do the will of My Father.”

Therefore, the idea that salvation cannot be lost does not come from Jesus. It comes from reading later writings in isolation and ignoring His warnings.

According to Jesus’ own words, salvation is real, powerful, and offered freely, but it must be kept through faithfulness. Eternal life belongs to those who continue, not merely those who begin.

 

[walter]

Your question doesn't make any sense, it's not even a valid question because you haven't identified which "words" are troubling you.
How about you identify the offending words and I'll see if I can help you deal with them.

I just wanted to ask you if the New Testament scriptures are for everyone, saved or unsaved?

 

[Berean]

Apparently Scripture has humbled you into realizing that ONLY Paul has the Christ given authority to teach Salvation to believers today.
If that wasn't the case you would have supplied the verses that REBUKE that claim.
That's MY point

Perhaps you need to return to my original post and read WHY I posted that question. I'll wait

 

[rvmb]

Perhaps you need to return to my original post and read WHY I posted that question. I'll wait

If I could find it I would read it

 

[Christian Soldier]

Why did Jesus say;
“Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it.” (Matthew 7:13–14)??

“Strive to enter through the narrow gate, for many, I say to you, will seek to enter and will not be able.” (Luke 13:24)

“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.” (Matthew 7:21)

“Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name…?’ And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness.’” (Matthew 7:22–23)

“When once the Master of the house has risen up and shut the door, and you begin to stand outside and knock, saying, ‘Lord, Lord, open for us,’ and He will answer and say to you, ‘I do not know you, where you are from.’” (Luke 13:25)

Do these verses look like everyone will make it ? Do these verses look to you as eternal salvation? Can you explain what these verse say and why?

You have failed once more to find a single verse to support your theory. You're welcome to keep trying but I can assure you that no such theory exists in the bible.

As usual none of those verses said anything of the sort. I'll happily give you my house if you ever find anything of the sort.

 

[Christian Soldier]

Meaning you cannot refute what I have stated from scripture. Your so-called fundamentals are shown to be mostly your personal opinion with some other man-made reformational dogma. Your statement regarding "election" is reformational Calvinism. Hardly the Gospel from the beginning, preserved by the Holy Spirit in His Church I Tim 3:15

Your comments here are typical of one who cannot refute scripture when it does not align with one's own personal interpretation. Including the post directly above this one. If your understanding is scriptural, not opinion, you should be able to answer the questions the poster raises easily. Yet you obfuscate, and diminish the opposing view as you did in this one to me.

What I have stated hss been the unbroken understanding of scripture from the beginning. The Doctrine of the Incarnation has existed for 2000 years and has not changed. You have accepted either your own interpretation, which is quite common on these boards, or some other man's interpretation that has no acceptance as understood from the beginning. I asked you if you had any evidence that your belief can be supported as Biblical from the beginning. Apparently that is not possible, since you have made no attempt to do so.

Best regards,

There's no point in citing verses of scripture, so you can twist them and make God a liar, which is what you have done consistently.
You have placed your faith in Jacob Arminius and his, "saved by works" version of the gospel. That is an abominable and blasphemous denial of the true gospel.

You think that following the crowd will save you, but the Lord Jesus said that following the crowd leads you to hell. So God is not mocked by your denial of the truth, because you will reap what you sow.

 

[Christian Soldier]

I just wanted to ask you if the New Testament scriptures are for everyone, saved or unsaved?

No they are not, God has nothing to say to the reprobate. They consider Gods Word to be foolishness and Christians to be idiots. So why would God have anything to do with them.

The Lord Jesus only came to save Gods elect, He left the rest in their condemned dead sate. They are sealed for hell.

The Lord Jesus is not some loser of a salesman, who tried to offer eternal life in paradise for free, but only a few chose to accept His offer, while the rest chose to spend eternity tormented in the lake of fire. Can you see how pathetic your version of the gospel is.