Berean
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- Feb 29, 2024
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Is it possible to lose salvation?
- Thread starter LoveYeshua
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Apparently Scripture has humbled you into realizing that ONLY Paul has the Christ given authority to teach Salvation to believers today.
If that wasn't the case you would have supplied the verses that REBUKE that claim.
That's MY point
Big Boy Johnson
Well-Known Member
That's false doctrine.
We should accept the whole counsel of God and refrain from Paul worship which is idolatry
""That's false doctrine.""
So GOD with ALL HIS POWER was unable to ensure the teachings of Paul -confirmed by Luke who wrote Acts - were legitimate teachings
Is that your claim ?
Big Boy Johnson
Well-Known Member
No, my claim is the rest of God's Word is just as important as what the Lord taught thru Paul.
If you are going to participate in these discussions you should at least try and keep up.
Christian Soldier
Well-Known Member
I'm sorry to inform you that your entire theology is based on demonic doctrine. You have taken every verse that refers to Gods elect and applied it to the reprobate, which is a false and abominable interpretation of Gods Word.
You failed to consider the context of all of the verses which use the word, "all" and "us".
Now if you cared to consider the context of the verses, the "all" refers to all peoples of the world,(not just the jews) as the Jews considered us Gentiles as dogs, unworthy of salvation. This is why the Lord Jesus and the apostles had to keep stipulating that the elect of God are from every tribe tongue and corner of the world. Not just the Jews.
You are presuming upon the Lord, which is not only dangerous but abominable. God never authorised you to decide what He is saying or doing. His ways are foolishness to those who are perishing, and His ways are past finding out so you'll never figure out why God does what He does, nor will you ever know why He chose to save a remnant for Himself and left the rest condemned to eternal hell.
Your theology couldn't be further from the truth, you subscribe to mans wisdom, but God said this about you "there is a way that seems right to man, but the end thereof is death"............. If I was your teacher I would get you to throw everything you think you know in the trash can and start a fresh, as it's bleeding obvious that your theology is fundamentally flawed.
Christian Soldier
Well-Known Member
There's no point in repeating the same erroneous doctrine over and over, it will never say what you're hoping to make it say.
I'm still waiting for any biblical evidence to support this wild theory that salvation can be lost. Please show me a single verse and I will renounce my theology immediately.
I won't hold me breath, because I know you will never find any such silly thing in the bible as it simply does not exist. If it did exist then God would be an evil liar.
None of the verses you cited make any mention of someone losing their salvation. I can't believe you can't see that
Christian Soldier
Well-Known Member
The Holy Bible, is Gods Word to His people. It's a love letter to His people and it a curse or hate speech to unbelievers as it reveals their coming punishment is eternal.
You are right, paul and the 12 did not have the same authority, Jesus 12 disciples authority was definitely higher. Want an example?
Look in the o.p. 2 examples there for you to see but you wont.
Re the other poster....
Have you noticed that he never posts scripture?
And this from someone that demands it even AFTER it's been supplied to him.
Just an interesting fact.
The differences in authority given by Jesus (God) the 12 and Paul are Major. Jesus gave the Twelve a unique place that no one else received. He chose them while He was on earth. They walked with Him, heard His voice, and learned directly from Him. for mote than 3 years. After His resurrection, Jesus came to them and gave them the Holy Spirit in a very direct and personal way. Scripture says, “So Jesus said to them again, ‘Peace to you. As the Father has sent Me, I also send you.’ And when He had said this, He breathed on them, and said to them, ‘Receive the Holy Spirit.’” (John 20:21–22). This moment is important, because Jesus Himself breathed on them, just as God breathed life into Adam in the beginning.
Right after this, Jesus gave them authority that He did not give to everyone. He said, “If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven them; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained.” (John 20:23). This authority over sins was spoken only to the disciples who were with Him.
Earlier, during His ministry, Jesus had already given them power and authority. The Scripture says, “Then He called His twelve disciples together and gave them power and authority over all demons, and to cure diseases.” (Luke 9:1). This power came directly from Jesus. He also made it clear that this calling did not come from their own choice. He said, “You did not choose Me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit, and that your fruit should remain.” (John 15:16).
Jesus also told them that they were given understanding that others did not have. He said, “But blessed are your eyes for they see, and your ears for they hear.” (Matthew 13:16). To Peter, speaking for the Twelve, Jesus gave authority connected to the Kingdom itself. He said, “And I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.” (Matthew 16:19).
Jesus also promised the Twelve a future role that belongs only to them. He said, “Assuredly I say to you, that in the regeneration, when the Son of Man sits on the throne of His glory, you who have followed Me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.” (Matthew 19:28). This promise is not given to later believers, but only to those who followed Him during His earthly walk.
This special place of the Twelve is also shown at the very end of Scripture, in the description of the New Jerusalem. John writes, “Now the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and on them were the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.” (Revelation 21:14). The eternal city itself carries their names. No other names are written on the foundations. This shows that their role is fixed forever in God’s plan.
When we compare this with Paul, the difference is clear from Scripture itself. Paul was not chosen during Jesus’ earthly ministry and did not walk with Him before the cross. Paul encountered Jesus later, through a vision. Scripture says, “Then he fell to the ground, and heard a voice saying to him, ‘Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting Me?’ And he said, ‘Who are You, Lord?’ Then the Lord said, ‘I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting. It is hard for you to kick against the goads.’” (Acts 9:4–5).
After his rebuke from Jesus, Paul did not receive the Holy Spirit by Jesus breathing on him. Instead, God sent another disciple to him. The Scripture says, “Then Ananias went his way and entered the house; and laying his hands on him he said, ‘Brother Saul, the Lord Jesus, who appeared to you on the road as you came, has sent me that you may receive your sight and be filled with the Holy Spirit.’ Immediately there fell from his eyes something like scales, and he received his sight at once; and he arose and was baptized.” (Acts 9:17–18).
Paul was given a mission, but not the same position as the Twelve. The Lord said, “But the Lord said to him, ‘Go, for he is a chosen vessel of Mine to bear My name before Gentiles, kings, and the children of Israel.’” (Acts 9:15). Paul was chosen as a vessel to carry the message, not as one of the Twelve who were given authority over sins, the keys of the Kingdom, promised thrones, and eternal foundations in the New Jerusalem.
Scripture also shows that Paul later went to the apostles, not that they went to him. He says, “Then after three years I went up to Jerusalem to see Peter, and remained with him fifteen days.” (Galatians 1:18). When Judas was replaced, Paul was not chosen. The Scripture says, “And they cast their lots, and the lot fell on Matthias. And he was numbered with the eleven apostles.” (Acts 1:26). This happened before Paul’s ministry began.
All of this shows, clearly and simply, that the Twelve received a special status directly from Jesus Himself. They were chosen in person, taught in person, received the Spirit directly from Him, were given authority over sins, entrusted with the keys of the Kingdom, promised thrones in the age to come, and have their names written forever on the foundations of the New Jerusalem. Paul was called later, through a vision, received the Spirit through another disciple, and was sent to preach, but he did not receive the same authority, position, or eternal promises that Jesus gave to the Twelve. This comes straight from Scripture, without adding or removing anything. @rvmb
yes some members who complain heavily about anything really never do add verses from scripture. they expect us to believe their word....
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From the very beginning, Scripture shows that salvation is a real relationship—and real relationships always involve choice. God does not create puppets. He offers Himself, He gives life, He draws near, and then He allows His creatures to respond. That response matters, not only at the beginning but all the way through.
Adam is the first and clearest example. He was not born fallen. God formed him from the dust, breathed His own holiness and life into him, and placed him in Eden with direct access to His presence. Adam stood there as a true image-bearer, a living soul in whom God’s own Spirit dwelt. And yet even in that state, Adam was not locked into obedience. He was given a command and a choice. When he chose to trust the serpent’s lie instead of God’s word, the consequence was not merely a bad feeling—it was removal. He was driven out of Eden, barred from the tree of life, and separated from the intimate fellowship he once had. Adam’s story tells us something crucial: even with God’s holiness present, God did not erase human freedom. A real relationship allowed for a real fall.
The whole history of Israel repeats this pattern on a national scale. God chose Abraham, rescued Israel from Egypt, gave them His Law, His sanctuary, His promises—and yet constantly set before them the reality of choice: “If you seek Me, I will be found by you; but if you forsake Me, I will cast you off.” The golden calf, the wilderness generation that fell, Saul’s rejection, the division of the kingdom, the northern tribes turning to idols—all are stories of people who truly belonged to God, truly experienced His blessings, and then chose to walk away. Names could be written in God’s book, and names could be blotted out. Covenant privilege was real; so was covenant loss. Choice is never treated as an illusion in the Old Testament. Love, trust, and obedience are invited—and refusal has consequences.
When Jesus comes, He does not cancel this reality. He deepens it. His parables are full of people who begin well and then choose otherwise. In the parable of the ten virgins, all ten start in the right place. All are waiting for the Bridegroom. All have lamps. At the beginning, there is no visible difference between them. But as time stretches, a dividing line quietly forms: five choose to continue seeking oil, five do not. The outcome is not decided by the fact that they once held lamps, but by what they choose to do with what they were given. Those who continued in readiness go into the wedding; those who did not are shut out. It is a parable about perseverance, but underneath that, it is a parable about ongoing choice—will you keep coming back for oil, or will you drift into neglect?
The parable of the soils makes the same point in a different picture. One Sower, one seed—the Word of God—but four kinds of response. Some hearts are hard and never receive. But others do receive the word with joy, spring up quickly, and then fall away when trouble comes. Others begin to grow, but the cares and pleasures of life slowly choke them, and they become unfruitful. Only the good soil continues to hear, to hold the word fast, and to bear fruit with patience. In other words, there are real beginnings that do not end well—not because the seed was defective, but because, over time, people choose other priorities, other loyalties, other comforts. The seed is the same; the difference is what the heart decides to do with it.
Jesus’ teaching in John 15 presses this further. He speaks of branches that are “in Me” and yet are taken away if they bear no fruit. Branches that do not abide are cast out, wither, and are burned. These are not strangers to the Vine; they are described as being “in” Him. But abiding is not a one-time act; it is a continuous choice to remain, to draw life from Him, to let His words stay in us. The warning assumes that someone who truly begins in Christ can later decide not to remain.
Paul reads Israel’s story and applies it directly to the church. In Romans 11, he pictures God’s people as an olive tree. Israel’s unbelieving branches were broken off, and Gentile believers were grafted in. They now stand by faith where Israel once stood. But Paul does not say, “Now that you’re in, nothing you do can change it.” Instead, he says, “Do not be haughty, but fear… if God did not spare the natural branches, He may not spare you either… otherwise you also will be cut off.” Their position is real, but so is the possibility of being cut off if they choose pride and unbelief. In Galatians, he speaks of people who have “fallen from grace”; in the pastoral letters, he talks about some who have “departed from the faith” or suffered “shipwreck.” None of that language makes sense if choice has been cancelled.
Hebrews gathers all of this into very sober appeals. It warns against developing “an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God” and insists that we have become partakers of Christ “if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end.” It describes people who have been enlightened, tasted the heavenly gift, shared in the Holy Spirit—and then fallen away. Again the issue is not whether their start was genuine, but that over time, they chose to turn aside. The writer pleads with his readers, “Today, if you hear His voice, do not harden your hearts.” That “today” call only makes sense if the heart still has the capacity to soften or harden in response.
Even Revelation, with its dramatic imagery, keeps this line intact. Jesus warns churches that their lampstands can be removed if they will not repent. He promises the overcomer that He will not blot out his name from the Book of Life—a promise that only has force if blotting out is possible. At the very end, we hear that a person’s part can be taken away from the tree of life and the holy city if they despise or twist God’s Word. Again, this is not about God being fickle; it is about God taking human choices seriously all the way to the end.
Taken together, these passages paint a consistent picture: God truly saves, truly writes names in His book, truly breathes His Spirit into people, and truly grafts them into His family. But He never does it in a way that erases their will. Adam, with God’s holiness breathed into him, still had to choose—and he chose to turn away. Israel, with miracles, Law, and promises, still chose idols and was exiled. Disciples, with lamps in hand and seed in their hearts, still must decide whether they will continue in what they’ve received or drift away. The wise virgins are wise because they keep choosing to seek oil. The good soil is good because it keeps choosing to hold fast and bear fruit. The branch remains in the vine because it chooses, day after day, to abide.
Salvation, then, is not fragile—but it is personal. It is a living covenant with a God who will never stop being faithful, yet who refuses to force love or obedience. He calls, He warns, He strengthens, He disciplines, He comforts—and He keeps the door open for those who will keep coming back. Scripture’s story of choice is not meant to fill us with fear that God is eager to throw us out; it is meant to sober us into realizing that our response to Him really matters. The same God who breathed life into Adam and watched him choose the wrong tree is now, in Christ, offering His Spirit again and asking: Will you remain? Will you keep coming for oil, keep hearing My word, keep choosing Me—today, and tomorrow, and to the end?
The context in each case is correct. The all means all.
The objective salvation refers to what Christ did to redeem His creation from the fall, death. Man lost life, became mortal.
Without Christ's eventual coming man and the world would simply succumb to death. God created man to be immortal, to be in communion with Him. This is what was lost in the fall.,
Now death came to all men, all humans if you want. Rom 5:12 is quite explicit in establishing death as universal. Then in Rom 5:15-17 he builds to the climax of vs 18 which shows the equation between universal death (mortality) by Adam, and universal life through Christ.
I Cor 15:12-19 is addressing the relationship of Christ's resurrection to our own resurrection, or the objective, redemption of mankind from the curse of the fall. Vs 20-22 cannot state it more clearly. It is again an equation. Those all that died, became mortal through Adam, the first Adam, were made alive through the resurrection of Christ, the second Adam.
This is all Incarnational. Col 1P:20 again is very clear that "all" things were given to Christ to redeem. Those vs from John 6:39-40, as I cited before shows clearly the separation of objective, Christ's work and the subjective, man's response to God's call to all men to repent.
Your view explicitly denies the Incarnation and the reversal of the curse upon mankind. Many additional texts that I cited in my earlier post also apply here.
A note on you use of elect. God does not choose who will be elect. The elect are those that have seen and believed. When one is baptised, one enters the Kingdom of God, and become the elect..
You will never find any text or context in scripture that states God chose a remnant that He would save, redeem, and then leave the rest to hades. The problem with this concept is that Christ's redemptive work actually made possible the existence of hell for those that do not choose Him as their Savior. Christ's redemptive work makes the New Heaven and the New Earth possible. And it is man who decides where he will spend eternity. Christ will judge, but He judges on what each man has done in his lifetime. God is love, loves mankind, is not respective of persons.
You make strong statements when you have not shown that your theology is based on scripture as it has always been understood from the beginning. You have a lot of inferences of man made opinions of scripture. Can you show that the Apostles actually believed what you state? The Incarnation is actually one of the hallmarks of historical Christianity, that is Christ became Man, for our sakes. Your theology actually denies it even happens, or possibly happened but has no effect.
Could you please answer my question?
I ask you please, are the words recorded in the New Testament, advice for any Christian to Keep in mind and observe, or is a "saved" person exempt from some of the words in the New Testament?
Do you have any scriptures that explain "Saved Believers" do not need to observe all the words in the New Testament? 2 Timothy 3:16
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Agreed, the original 12 are a bit special, they have the heavenly pillars with their names on them
Revelation 21;14
''And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.''
Perhaps Paul is not mentioned because he, like David, had too much blood on his hands.
Big Boy Johnson
Well-Known Member
So in the end the Lord is a respecter of persons and He loves some more than others?
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