WATER BAPTISM CAUSES DIVISIONS

[Doug]

[Romans 6:4 KJV] "Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life."
[Colossians 2:12 KJV] "Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with [him] through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead."...........I have heard it said that after salvation we should be water baptized. They justify this by misapplying these verses. They say water baptism pictures us being buried with him into death, and raised. These verses aren't speaking of water baptism, but rather, our baptism by the Spirit..........[1 Corinthians 12:13 KJV] "For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether [we be] Jews or Gentiles, whether [we be] bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit."

Church denominations all have different procedures in regard to water baptism. Some say it is by immersion, while others say it's by sprinkling. Some claim infant baptism, while others say only adults. Should we be baptized in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, or in the name of Jesus? The fact is, Paul doesn't command water baptism and there are no instructions in regard to water baptism to be found. Water baptism causes divisions in the church, the body of Christ. Water baptism caused division in the Corinthian church.........[1 Corinthians 1:11 KJV] "For it hath been declared unto me of you, my brethren, by them [which are of the house] of Ce, that there are contentions among you."
[1 Corinthians 1:12 KJV] "Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ."
[1 Corinthians 1:13 KJV] "Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?"

 

[Ronald Nolette]

[Romans 6:4 KJV] "Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life."
[Colossians 2:12 KJV] "Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with [him] through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead."...........I have heard it said that after salvation we should be water baptized. They justify this by misapplying these verses. They say water baptism pictures us being buried with him into death, and raised. These verses aren't speaking of water baptism, but rather, our baptism by the Spirit..........[1 Corinthians 12:13 KJV] "For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether [we be] Jews or Gentiles, whether [we be] bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit."

Church denominations all have different procedures in regard to water baptism. Some say it is by immersion, while others say it's by sprinkling. Some claim infant baptism, while others say only adults. Should we be baptized in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, or in the name of Jesus? The fact is, Paul doesn't command water baptism and there are no instructions in regard to water baptism to be found. Water baptism causes divisions in the church, the body of Christ. Water baptism caused division in the Corinthian church.........[1 Corinthians 1:11 KJV] "For it hath been declared unto me of you, my brethren, by them [which are of the house] of Ce, that there are contentions among you."
[1 Corinthians 1:12 KJV] "Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ."
[1 Corinthians 1:13 KJV] "Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?"

Jesus commanded it for all nations. Not for salvation but for obedience and public declaration of ones faith!

Baptism is an ordinance and command for all believers.

17 And when they saw him, they worshipped him: but some doubted.

18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Nations= ethnos which means peoples

KJV Translation Count — Total: 164x
The KJV translates Strong's G1484 in the following manner: Gentiles (93x), nation (64x), heathen (5x), people (2x).
Outline of Biblical Usage [?]

1. a multitude (whether of men or of beasts) associated or living together
   1. a company, troop, swarm
2. a multitude of individuals of the same nature or genus
   1. the human family
3. a tribe, nation, people group
4. in the OT, foreign nations not worshipping the true God, pagans, Gentiles
5. Paul uses the term for Gentile Christians

While Paul is the Apostle to teh Gentiles- Jesus is the head over Paul and the church!

 

[Doug]

Jesus commanded it for all nations. Not for salvation but for obedience and public declaration of ones faith!

Baptism is an ordinance and command for all believers.

17 And when they saw him, they worshipped him: but some doubted.

18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Nations= ethnos which means peoples

KJV Translation Count — Total: 164x
The KJV translates Strong's G1484 in the following manner: Gentiles (93x), nation (64x), heathen (5x), people (2x).
Outline of Biblical Usage [?]

1. a multitude (whether of men or of beasts) associated or living together
   1. a company, troop, swarm
2. a multitude of individuals of the same nature or genus
   1. the human family
3. a tribe, nation, people group
4. in the OT, foreign nations not worshipping the true God, pagans, Gentiles
5. Paul uses the term for Gentile Christians

While Paul is the Apostle to teh Gentiles- Jesus is the head over Paul and the church!

19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

This will be accomplished in the millennial kingdom. Only Israel was given water baptism and was required to be given authority in the kingdom/ to be cleansed/to receive the Holy Ghost

Baptism is an ordinance and command for all believers.

Where does Paul command us to be water baptized?

 

[marks]

You start by saying it causes divisions and then you put out opinions on baptism most people would disagree with if not find outright bizarre.

I'd ask the same question, where did Paul include this in his instructions to the church?

Much love!

 

[Ronald Nolette]

This will be accomplished in the millennial kingdom. Only Israel was given water baptism and was required to be given authority in the kingdom/ to be cleansed/to receive the Holy Ghost

Where does Paul command us to be water baptized?

Once again you show your ignorance through false teaching.

Paul baptizedgentiles. Baptism is for all believers. If you are not baptized, you are in disobedience and that would be a reason why you have such faulty teaching. You are not being guided further until you complete this ordinance that is required for discipleship.

These are harsh words, but said in love to rescue you from all these false teachings that have ensnared you.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

This will be accomplished in the millennial kingdom. Only Israel was given water baptism and was required to be given authority in the kingdom/ to be cleansed/to receive the Holy Ghost

Where does Paul command us to be water baptized?

Jesus commanded it for all people groups. He told the apostles to go, not wait for the millennial kingdom as you foolishly declare.

Paul baptiozed people who were gentiles because he was taught to odo so. Just because something is not expressly written down by Paul does not mean that he did not do or command it to be done.

Jesus told the Apostles to make sure that all people groups opbserve all things He taught- and to baptize them in the name of the Father, Son and Holy spirit. It has been going on for nearly 2000 years. And you in your ego think that God could not tell the church to knowck it off, it is only for the millennial kingdom?? C'mon man!

 

[GodsGrace]

[Romans 6:4 KJV] "Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life."
[Colossians 2:12 KJV] "Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with [him] through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead."...........I have heard it said that after salvation we should be water baptized. They justify this by misapplying these verses. They say water baptism pictures us being buried with him into death, and raised. These verses aren't speaking of water baptism, but rather, our baptism by the Spirit..........[1 Corinthians 12:13 KJV] "For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether [we be] Jews or Gentiles, whether [we be] bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit."

Church denominations all have different procedures in regard to water baptism. Some say it is by immersion, while others say it's by sprinkling. Some claim infant baptism, while others say only adults. Should we be baptized in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, or in the name of Jesus? The fact is, Paul doesn't command water baptism and there are no instructions in regard to water baptism to be found.

Paul also didn't say we should take a shower,
but everyone seems to do this.

So you believe Paul?

1. JESUS commanded the Apostles to BAPTIZE.

Matthew 28:19-20
19 "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit,
20 teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always *, even to the end of the age."

JESUS commanded the Apostles to baptize.
And to do so in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.

He told them to OBSERVE all the He commands.
So why do we fight against what Jesus commanded?

Those posting against what Jesus commanded are those that are causing confusion and division.


2. BAPTIZIO means to dip in water.

Water baptism causes divisions in the church, the body of Christ. Water baptism caused division in the Corinthian church.........[1 Corinthians 1:11 KJV] "For it hath been declared unto me of you, my brethren, by them [which are of the house] of Ce, that there are contentions among you."
[1 Corinthians 1:12 KJV] "Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ."
[1 Corinthians 1:13 KJV] "Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?"

Paul was clearly stating that there is to be no division in teachings.

 

[Doug]

Once again you show your ignorance through false teaching.

Paul baptizedgentiles. Baptism is for all believers. If you are not baptized, you are in disobedience and that would be a reason why you have such faulty teaching. You are not being guided further until you complete this ordinance that is required for discipleship.

These are harsh words, but said in love to rescue you from all these false teachings that have ensnared you.

Paul baptizedgentiles

Scripture is silent as to why Paul was baptized, why he baptized, and why he stopped. However we can have some thoughts on it.

Paul was baptized by a devout Jew only days after conversion and knew the law and the practice of water baptisms ....................[Acts 22:3 KJV] "I am verily a man [which am] a Jew, born in Tarsus, [a city] in Cilicia, yet brought up in this city at the feet of Gamaliel, [and] taught according to the perfect manner of the law of the fathers, and was zealous toward God, as ye all are this day."

Paul baptized believers so as not to give offence to the Jews...................[1 Corinthians 10:32 KJV] "Give none offence, neither to the Jews, nor to the Gentiles, nor to the church of God:".....................Paul didnt teach to abandon the law which included water baptisms/washings................
[Acts 21:21 KJV] "And they are informed of thee, that thou teachest all the Jews which are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise [their] children, neither to walk after the customs."
[Acts 21:24 KJV] "Them take, and purify thyself with them, and be at charges with them, that they may shave [their] heads: and all may know that those things, whereof they were informed concerning thee, are nothing; but [that] thou thyself also walkest orderly, and keepest the law."

Paul stopped baptizing. He knew water baptism was causing divisions in the church..................
[1 Corinthians 1:11 KJV] "For it hath been declared unto me of you, my brethren, by them [which are of the house] of Ce, that there are contentions among you."
[1 Corinthians 1:12 KJV] "Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ."
[1 Corinthians 1:13 KJV] "Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?".......................It was revealed to Paul that there is one baptism and that by the Spirit................[1 Corinthians 12:13 KJV] "For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether [we be] Jews or Gentiles, whether [we be] bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit."

If baptism was, as you say, required for obedience, why didnt he baptize all? He said he was glad he didnt...............[1 Corinthians 1:14 KJV] "I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius;"

. Baptism is for all believers. If you are not baptized, you are in disobedience

Once again, show me where Paul commands us to be water baptized

 

[Jack]

Jesus commanded it for all nations. Not for salvation but for obedience and public declaration of ones faith!

Exactly!

 

[Doug]

Jesus commanded it for all people groups. He told the apostles to go, not wait for the millennial kingdom as you foolishly declare.

Paul baptiozed people who were gentiles because he was taught to odo so. Just because something is not expressly written down by Paul does not mean that he did not do or command it to be done.

Jesus told the Apostles to make sure that all people groups opbserve all things He taught- and to baptize them in the name of the Father, Son and Holy spirit. It has been going on for nearly 2000 years. And you in your ego think that God could not tell the church to knowck it off, it is only for the millennial kingdom?? C'mon man!

He told the apostles to go, not wait for the millennial kingdom

There was more than one "great commission". Matthew 28 is for the millennial kingdom, but here in Mark Jesus commands them to go to the world and preach the gospel.....................[Mark 16:15 KJV] "And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.".....THIS WAS THEIR COMMISSION AT THE PRESENT TIME (not Matthew 28).........this was seen at Pentecost and was interrupted by this dispensation but will resume in the tribulation.

Paul baptiozed people who were gentiles because he was taught to odo so. Just because something is not expressly written down by Paul does not mean that he did not do or command it to be done.

I cant refute anything said if one claims we base our teachings on what isn't written, but on what should have been written, but wasn't, but I say existed

Jesus told the Apostles to make sure that all people groups opbserve all things He taught-

Jesus commanded to keep the law, so that negates Paul telling us we arent under the law

 

[Doug]

Paul also didn't say we should take a shower,
but everyone seems to do this.

So you believe Paul?

1. JESUS commanded the Apostles to BAPTIZE.

Matthew 28:19-20
19 "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit,
20 teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always *, even to the end of the age."

JESUS commanded the Apostles to baptize.
And to do so in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.

He told them to OBSERVE all the He commands.
So why do we fight against what Jesus commanded?

Those posting against what Jesus commanded are those that are causing confusion and division.


2. BAPTIZIO means to dip in water.

Paul was clearly stating that there is to be no division in teachings.

Paul also didn't say we should take a shower,
but everyone seems to do this.

What you are saying is Paul didn't command water baptism, but we will do it anyways because he really meant we should. That would put us in the position of creating our own commands and teachings, not going by what is written for us. This creates the commandments of men Jesus warned of.

1. JESUS commanded the Apostles to BAPTIZE.

Matthew 28:19-20
19 "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit,
20 teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always *, even to the end of the age."

JESUS commanded the Apostles to baptize.
And to do so in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.

He told them to OBSERVE all the He commands.
So why do we fight against what Jesus commanded?

This commission was for the millennial kingdom in which they would teach the Gentiles in the kingdom.

Israel was commanded to be water baptized. Paul doesnt command us to be water baptized.

Jesus taught to keep the law, Paul says we arent under the law

Paul was clearly stating that there is to be no division in teachings.

If one doesnt rightly divide scripture to know what is for us in scripture and what isnt commanded us, this will lead to false teachings that may be Biblical, but not dispensational.

 

[Doug]

Exactly!

Where does Paul say it is an ordinance that we must be baptized to declare a public confession of faith

 

[Jack]

Where does Paul say it is an ordinance that we must be baptized to declare a public confession of faith

Water baptism is not required for salvation.

Romans 10:9-10
9 If you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

 

[Doug]

Water baptism is not required for salvation.

Romans 10:9-10
9 If you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

I didnt say it was for salvation
I said...........Where does Paul say it is an ordinance that we must be baptized to declare a public confession of faith
You guys agreed it was an ordinance to publicly declare faith so please show me our verse in Paul for this

 

[Jack]

I didnt say it was for salvation
I said...........Where does Paul say it is an ordinance that we must be baptized to declare a public confession of faith
You guys agreed it was an ordinance to publicly declare faith so please show me our verse in Paul for this

I didn't agree with that. I don't have a clue what your point is.

 

[Doug]

I didn't agree with that. I don't have a clue what your point is.

Jesus commanded it for all nations. Not for salvation but for obedience and public declaration of ones faith!

Exactly!
You said exactly

So then please show me where Paul says to be water baptized as a public declaration of faith

 

[Triumph1300]

It is an obedient response to Jesus’ command in Matthew 28:19-20:

“Therefore go and make disciples of all nations,
baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you.”

Baptism is an act of obedience, demonstrating submission to Christ’s authority and His call to make disciples.
----------------------------------------
Why is this so confusing for some people?

 

[Doug]

It is an obedient response to Jesus’ command in Matthew 28:19-20:

“Therefore go and make disciples of all nations,
baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you.”

Baptism is an act of obedience, demonstrating submission to Christ’s authority and His call to make disciples.
----------------------------------------
Why is this so confusing for some people?

[Matthew 28:16 KJV] "Then the eleven disciples went away into Galilee, into a mountain where Jesus had appointed them."
[Matthew 28:18 KJV] "And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth."
[Matthew 28:19 KJV] "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:"
[Matthew 28:20 KJV] "Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, [even] unto the end of the world. Amen."...........................Jesus was commanding the eleven apostles to baptize not us.

Paul is our apostle in this dispensation and doesnt command us to be water baptized. No such command to obey

 

[GodsGrace]

What you are saying is Paul didn't command water baptism, but we will do it anyways because he really meant we should.

No.
Here is what I stated:

JESUS COMMANDED the Apostles to baptize.
He told them to teach ALL NATIONS what Jesus had taught and commanded.
Baptism is a commandments.
God does not make requests.

It doesn't matter if Paul spoke about batptism OR NOT....
JESUS commanded and we must obey.

Paul also taught baptism but if Jesus makes a command, we need not look to any other person for instruction.

That would put us in the position of creating our own commands and teachings, not going by what is written for us. This creates the commandments of men Jesus warned of.

Your comment makes no sense in view of Matthew 28:19.

Jesus is NOT a MAN.
Jesus commanded that we be baptized.

This commission was for the millennial kingdom in which they would teach the Gentiles in the kingdom.

Really?
WHERE in Matthew 28:19 does it mention a millenial Kingdom?

Matthew 28:16.19
16 But the eleven disciples proceeded to Galilee, to the mountain which Jesus had designated.
17 When they saw Him, they worshiped Him; but some were doubtful.
18 And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, "All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth.
19 "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit,
20 teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always *, even to the end of the age."


Perhaps YOU are following some MEN that Jesus warned us about.

Israel was commanded to be water baptized. Paul doesnt command us to be water baptized.

Jesus taught to keep the law, Paul says we arent under the law

Oh. I see.

JESUS taught one thing...
Paul taught something different.

Very good Doug.
And YOU are writing a thread on the division of the church?

Well, maybe it should be divided...
IF WE HAVE JESUS TEACHING ONE THING
AND PAUL TEACHING SOMETHING DIFFERENT.

Seems to me one of them might just be wrong.
Or,
maybe they're both right but you don't see it.

Which LAW did Jesus teach us to keep?

Jesus said that IF we love Him we will keep HIS COMMANDMENTS.

Do you believe the 10 commandments are LAW?

If one doesnt rightly divide scripture to know what is for us in scripture and what isnt commanded us, this will lead to false teachings that may be Biblical, but not dispensational.

We certainly agree on this.
One must know how to rightly divide scripture.
ALL of scripture is for ALL who wish to follow Jesus...
ALL who wish to be a disciple of HIS

and not some men that teach what is not even written in the bible.

Please explain where Matthew 28:19, which is JESUS speaking....
there is any mention of a millinial, millinium.

 

[GodsGrace]

Water baptism is not required for salvation.

Romans 10:9-10
9 If you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Jack,,not that I disagree with you,,,
BUT
baptism does not have to be mentioned in every teaching in order for it to be a command.

Romans 10:9-10 is speaking about what saves us - initially.
No need to mention baptism with every paragraph of scripture.
If it is mentioned only one time...that is sufficient.