The 3 Minor Feasts.

[The Light]

The great tribulation is not just the wrath of God taking place,

The great tribulation is NOT the wrath of God.

but also Satan's wrath knowing that he has but a short time left.

The trumpets and vials take place during the great tribulation.

Douggg. The great tribulation is over at the 6th seal. That is what scripture says. Why would you go against scripture?

 

[Douggg]

The great tribulation is NOT the wrath of God.


Douggg. The great tribulation is over at the 6th seal. That is what scripture says. Why would you go against scripture?

No, the 6th seal is near the end of the great tribulation, but not the end of it. The end of the great tribulation will be the day that Jesus returns.

The 6th seal is when the Sign of the Son of Man appears in heaven. 45 days later, Jesus will return down to earth, and stand on the Mt. of Olives in Zechariah 14: 4, splitting it in half.

 

[David in NJ]

Sorry, that does not fit the bill.

For instance, he could be a Muslim from the United States. The God of his fathers is God. His god is Allah.

#1 - Allah is not God

#2 - Muslim is a very good candidate

#3 - Allah is a god whom the fathers did not know

 

[Marilyn C]

Scripture clearly shows that the great tribulation is not 1260 days long.

The great tribulation is OVER at the 6th seal.

The beast is in power in the 7th seal wrath of God

The great tribulation is not the wrath of God.

I did ask for scriptures.

You have NOT proven that the great trib, is NOT 1,260 days long. Remember Jesus said to understand about the abomination of desolation spoken of by Daniel. (Matt. 24: 15 Dan. 8: 13) `For there will be great trib. such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be.` (Matt. 24: 21)

Then in Rev. 15: 1 we read of the last plagues being the completion of the wrath of God. And this was over a period of time.

Rev. 6: 16 & 17 reveal the specific day of the wrath of God, however the word Day is also a period of time. Dan. 12: 1 - 7 reveal that unprecedented time will be `time, times and half a time,` (1,260 days).

The Greek word for wrath is `orge,` and expresses wrath, anger, vengeance with connotations of punishment. To punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity.` (Is. 26: 21) And that is clearly seen in the great trib, the wrath of God, a time unprecedented.

The seals are a fore view of what is to be judged.

The 6th seal is a fore view of Rev. 19: 11 - 21.

The beast is in power in the middle of the trib. (Dan. 9: 27 Rev. 13: 5)

 

[ewq1938]

That means nothing. The great tribulation is over at the 6th seal. Scriptural FACT.

Not over. The GT would not even begin until LONG after the seal was opened. It merely shows us the future, not that the events happen at the opening.

 

[The Light]

No, the 6th seal is near the end of the great tribulation, but not the end of it. The end of the great tribulation will be the day that Jesus returns.

What part of IMMEDIATELY AFTER THE TRIBULATION are you not understanding?

Matthew 24
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

The sign of the man appears, the tribes mourn and they see Jesus coming in the clouds.

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Simple logic. The tribulation is over BEFORE the sign of the Son of man. So the tribulation cannot be the wrath of God.

Tribulation is when the Beast is killing Christians. The wrath of God is when God is taking vengeance on an unbelieving and evil world. The great tribulation is over the 6th seal. Wrath is the 7th seal. Simple.

I can't figure out why you can't grasp this. The only thing I can think is that you have that sledgehammer out and have beaten everything into place, instead reading what the Word says.

The 6th seal is when the Sign of the Son of Man appears in heaven. 45 days later, Jesus will return down to earth, and stand on the Mt. of Olives in Zechariah 14: 4, splitting it in half.

This is just something you have made up. It does not agree with scripture.

The 7th seal wrath of God lasts one year. All those trumpets and vials occur and all you can think of is the 45 days. What about the 5 months of the stinging locusts..............you skip it all.

 

[The Light]

I did ask for scriptures.

You have NOT proven that the great trib, is NOT 1,260 days long.

I'll try again. I will give you scriptures and try to walk you through it.

The beast is in power until Armageddon. That means the beast is in power through the wrath of God which is the 7th seal.

So let's prove that the great tribulation is over at the 6th seal. Do you see that the tribulation is OVER when the sun and moon are darkened and the stars fall from heaven? And then do you see Jesus coming?

Matthew 24
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Now look at Revelation 6 below. Do you see when the 6th is opened that the sun and moon are darkened, and the stars fall from heaven? Now simple logic........deductive reasoning. You should be able to determine from the above and below information that the great tribulation is over at the 6th seal and Jesus returns.

Revelation 6
12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

Jesus does not come to the earth; He remains in the clouds. He sends His angels to gather the elect from heaven and earth. All return to heaven for the marriage supper

Matthew 24
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

So the great tribulation is over at the 6th seal. The seventh seal is the wrath of God. The wrath of God lasts one year. See below. So we know that the 1260 days is at LEAST less one year because of the one year wrath of God. The beast is in power until Armageddon.

Isaiah 34
8 For it is the day of the Lord's vengeance, and the year of recompences for the controversy of Zion.

Conclusion. The great tribulation is not 1260 days long.

 

[Marilyn C]

I'll try again. I will give you scriptures and try to walk you through it.

The beast is in power until Armageddon. That means the beast is in power through the wrath of God which is the 7th seal.

So let's prove that the great tribulation is over at the 6th seal. Do you see that the tribulation is OVER when the sun and moon are darkened and the stars fall from heaven? And then do you see Jesus coming?

Matthew 24
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Now look at Revelation 6 below. Do you see when the 6th is opened that the sun and moon are darkened, and the stars fall from heaven? Now simple logic........deductive reasoning. You should be able to determine from the above and below information that the great tribulation is over at the 6th seal and Jesus returns.

Revelation 6
12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

Jesus does not come to the earth; He remains in the clouds. He sends His angels to gather the elect from heaven and earth. All return to heaven for the marriage supper

Matthew 24
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

So the great tribulation is over at the 6th seal. The seventh seal is the wrath of God. The wrath of God lasts one year. See below. So we know that the 1260 days is at LEAST less one year because of the one year wrath of God. The beast is in power until Armageddon.

Isaiah 34
8 For it is the day of the Lord's vengeance, and the year of recompences for the controversy of Zion.

Conclusion. The great tribulation is not 1260 days long.

First you have to prove that the seals occur when shown and not just a preview of Judgments to come.

If as you say the Day of God`s wrath is when the 6th seal is opened (and not just a preview) then you have `all kings, rich men, commanders, mighty men slaves, free etc all hiding in caves, but seemingly not there when Rev. 8 - 19 occur.

 

[ewq1938]

Isaiah 34
8 For it is the day of the Lord's vengeance, and the year of recompences for the controversy of Zion.

Conclusion. The great tribulation is not 1260 days long.

That's speaking of a day in a certain year not a day then a year long recompense as well.

The GT is 42 months long, not less and not more.

Also, the events the 6th seal describes do not happen when the seal is opened. It just shows what will happen in the future at the second coming.

You are also wrong about the 7th seal. It is not including any trumpets. It is 30 min of silence only not any number of things written after that.

 

[ewq1938]

First you have to prove that the seals occur when shown and not just a preview of Judgments to come.

Exactly. The seals are previews of future events. Been saying this for years.

 

[Douggg]

Simple logic. The tribulation is over BEFORE the sign of the Son of man. So the tribulation cannot be the wrath of God.

Matthew 24:29 does not say the great tribulation of those days.

 

[ewq1938]

Matthew 24:29 does not say the great tribulation of those days.

It is a ref to the GT mentioned a few verses before:

Mat 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
Mat 24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
Mat 24:23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
Mat 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
Mat 24:25 Behold, I have told you before.
Mat 24:26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
Mat 24:27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
Mat 24:28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

 

[jeffweeder]

1. Anti-Christ `s Image - 9th Av (Temple Desecration)

The anti-Christ gets an image of himself set up in the Jewish Temple. This is the abomination of desolation, placing himself in place of God. (Rev. 13: 14 & 15) This occurs exactly on the 9th of Av, which is the Jewish greatest day of mourning for their Temple desecration.


2. Jesus` Return - 29th Kislev (Hanukkah)

Jesus comes in great power and glory and brings the tribulation to an early close. This is in the time of Hanukkah, the Festival of lights. During the 8 days - 25th of Kislev to 2nd of Tevet, the Lord returns dealing with the world`s armies and delivers Israel.

Counting back from the 15th of Purim on a Jewish calendar (75 days) we find that the Lord returns on the 29th of Kislev.

Jewish Calendar - Length of Months.

I_____________________I____(30) ____I___(29)_____I____ (30)___I___15th
...........................................Kislev............ Tevet............... Shevat........ Adar

Temple Rededication - Tevet.

When the Lord reveals Himself to the people of Jerusalem they go into mourning. (Zech. 12: 10 - 14) After that they will seek to rededicate their temple at the end of the month. (Dan. 9: 24, 8: 13 & 14, 12: 11, John 10: 22)

New Year of Trees - Shevat.

Israel celebrates this month as the time of the Trees coming to fruit. In the tribulation the waters have been polluted, however the Lord brings fresh water from Jerusalem and out to the seas to cleanse them.(Zech.14: 8) The trees then grow and produce fruit. (Ez.47: 12)



3. National Celebrations - Adar 15th (Purim)

The cities of the world had fallen in the great earthquake so life will be agricultural. (Rev. 16: 18 & 19, Micah 4: 3) Thus from all over the world the Jews will be brought to the land of Israel - on horses, in chariots and in litters, on mules and on camels. (Isa. 66: 20)

Then it will be the time for the Festival of Purim, the national celebration of deliverance. In Jerusalem it will take place on the 15th of Adar. (Esther 9: 18 & 19)

This will be 1,335 days from the anti-Christ. (Dan. 12: 12)

I cannot for the life of me reconcile any of this to what Jesus actually said concerning the catastrophic and sudden impact on all life at the end of the age.

 

[Douggg]

It is a ref to the GT mentioned a few verses before:

Mat 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
Mat 24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
Mat 24:23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
Mat 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
Mat 24:25 Behold, I have told you before.
Mat 24:26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
Mat 24:27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
Mat 24:28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

It does not say the great tribulation of those days, because there are still parts of the great tribulation still unfinished. Which includes the kings of the earth gathering their armies at Armageddon to make war on Jesus and His army of heaven.

And the great tribulation is not over until the abomination of desolation that began the great tribulation is removed.

 

[David in NJ]

I cannot for the life of me reconcile any of this to what Jesus actually said concerning the catastrophic and sudden impact on all life at the end of the age.

JESUS never said "all life will be destroyed at His Second Coming"

The Judgment of "all life destroyed" is AFTER the literal 1,000 years of Revelation chapter 20

 

[The Light]

First you have to prove that the seals occur when shown and not just a preview of Judgments to come.

What's to prove? John has a revelation of Jesus Christ. He has a vision of what is to come. John tells us what will happen when the seals are opened. Jesus tells us the exact same thing of what is to come in the Olivet Discourse. Jesus tells us about false Christs, wars and rumors of wars, famines, and pestilence. Jesus tells us these are the beginning of sorrows. The beginning of sorrows is John's 1st four seals. Jesus tells us that there will be great tribulation. This is John's 5th seal. Then Jesus tells us that immediately after the tribulation, when the sun and moon are darkened and the stars fall from heaven that He will come. He will send His angels to gather the elect. John tells us when the 6th seal is opened, the sun and moon are darkened, and the stars fall from heaven. So what's to prove? We either believe what is written or we don't.

John tells us when the 7th seal is opened, the trumpets and vials occur in order. Jesus does not tell us about the 7th seal wrath of God.

If as you say the Day of God`s wrath is when the 6th seal is opened (and not just a preview)

I say when the 6th seal is opened the great tribulation is over. The 7th seal is the wrath of God.

John has a vision of 7 seals being opened. He tells us what will occur when the seal is actually opened. Simple.

then you have `all kings, rich men, commanders, mighty men slaves, free etc all hiding in caves, but seemingly not there when Rev. 8 - 19 occur.

You are correct. The kings, etc. are hiding in the caves because Jesus has shown up at the 6th seal for the second harvest. It is the gathering from heaven and earth. Jesus comes in power and glory with His angels. The kings are terrified. But Jesus does not come the earth for war at this time.

Mark 13
27 And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.

After Jesus comes, those elect that are gathered and go to heaven for the marriage supper. We are the great multitude in heaven some of whom come out of great tribulation. So Jesus and the angels and believers go to heaven, and the kings come out of the caves but they know the wrath of God is coming on the earth.


Revelation 7
9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

Revelation 7
13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?

14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

We remain in heaven for ONE YEAR as the 7th seal wrath of God is occurring on the earth. We are not appointed to wrath.

1 Thes 5
9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

At the end of God's wrath, the armies of heaven return to the earth for Armageddon and the Day of the Lord.

 

[Douggg]

Mark 13
27 And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.

After Jesus comes, those elect that are gathered and go to heaven for the marriage supper.

The gathering of the elect in Mark 13:27 and Matthew 24:31 is after Jesus has returned.

The elect are the Jews gathered from around the world to the land of Israel. It is a promise that God made in Deuteronomy 30
:1-6.

"to the uttermost part of heaven" is a figure of speech. It also in Deuteronomy 30:4.

1 And it shall come to pass, when all these things are come upon thee, the blessing and the curse, which I have set before thee, and thou shalt call them to mind among all the nations, whither the LORD thy God hath driven thee,

2 And shalt return unto the LORD thy God, and shalt obey his voice according to all that I command thee this day, thou and thy children, with all thine heart, and with all thy soul;

3 That then the LORD thy God will turn thy captivity, and have compassion upon thee, and will return and gather thee from all the nations, whither the LORD thy God hath scattered thee.

4 If any of thine be driven out unto the outmost parts of heaven, from thence will the LORD thy God gather thee, and from thence will he fetch thee:

5 And the LORD thy God will bring thee into the land which thy fathers possessed, and thou shalt possess it; and he will do thee good, and multiply thee above thy fathers.

6 And the LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live.

 

[The Light]

That's speaking of a day in a certain year not a day then a year long recompense as well.

It's saying the day is a year long. The days of wrath is one year.

The GT is 42 months long, not less and not more.

I have shown that is not correct. The GT is over at the 6th seal. The beast remains in power during the one year seventh seal wrath of God.

Also, the events the 6th seal describes do not happen when the seal is opened. It just shows what will happen in the future at the second coming.

Then why even tell us about the seals if they are nothing?

You are also wrong about the 7th seal. It is not including any trumpets. It is 30 min of silence only not any number of things written after that.

Yeah right. Let's just pretend that the trumpets and vials of God's don't happen.

And the kings of the earth were hiding in caves because they were in fear of 30 minutes of silence. Your logic is continually left wanting.

 

[The Light]

The gathering of the elect in Mark 13:27 and Matthew 24:31 is after Jesus has returned.

The gathering of the elect happens at the 6th seal. Jesus remains in the clouds and sends His angels to gather the elect from heaven and earth.

Just like the Word says. We don't need to dream anything up, we only need to accept what is written.

The elect are the Jews gathered from around the world to the land of Israel. It is a promise that God made in Deuteronomy 30
:1-6.

"to the uttermost part of heaven" is a figure of speech. It also in Deuteronomy 30:4.

It is a gathering from heaven and earth. The Church is gathered from heaven and the twelve tribes across the earth, the seed of the woman are gathered from the earth.

The woman, Israel remains on the earth during the 1 year wrath of God.......in her place of protection.

After wrath the armies of heaven follow Jesus to Armageddon for the Day of the Lord.

 

[Douggg]

The gathering of the elect happens at the 6th seal.

It does not say anything about the gathering of elect in the text of the sixth seal in Revelation 6:12-17.