"what shall be the sign of thy coming"

[Aunty Jane]

Jesus said let those in Judea flee to the mountains, not those in the entire world. You are not looking at the context. Also, it doesn't say it would be the greatest tribulation in history in scope. If that's what it meant, then the flood in Noah's day would be the greatest tribulation ever. But, no tribulation can top that in scope.

You fail to discern that this was a dual prophesy with two different situations and outcomes that mirrored one another....the first one that affected Jerusalem and it’s surrounds, and only the Jews were targeted.....whilst the other is global in scope, involving the whole world.....”the end” that Jesus preached about was also spoken about in the Revelation, long after the original destruction of Jerusalem.

Matthew 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

And the destruction of Jerusalem was one of the worst times of tribulation ever seen by the Jewish people when their system of things came to an end by God’s permission. (Matt 23:37-39)

But the tribulation to come was tied in with Christ’s return, so this is the time when his return was prophesied by Daniel to take place.....all the features of the “sign” that Jesus gave his apostles have been in evidence for some time...we are well into “the time of the end”.

It is time for God’s Kingdom to “come” and rid the earth of all that is causing mankind’s woes.
With the establishment of the Kingdom, God’s will can be “done on earth as it is in heaven”....

Isn’t that what Jesus taught us to pray for? Is that what we see?

This does NOT say it would be the greatest tribulation ever in scope. You are twisting the text to say that. If that was the case, it would have to be something greater than the flood in Noah's day, which is not even possible. Only 8 people survived that. Jesus was saying that it would be great tribulation unlike any since the beginning of the world to that time. The great tribulation that Jesus referred to there doesn't have to be global in order to be unlike any other great tribulation that has occurred.

But it does have to be the greatest tribulation the world has ever seen....something that will eclipse what happened in Noah’s day.....we are about to witness the global catastrophe that is called “Armageddon”.

Very few will survive this event, just like the limited population of the earth in Noah’s day perished....we will see something that outpaces that in scope by far, and in the results it achieves.

“The end of the world” in Noah’s day was a stopgap to reset man’s fall into sin, which had been accelerated by demonic activity and would have taken God’s purpose off course, way too early. He eliminated all the culprits, and started again, with the only righteous people in existence, but he did not eliminate sin because it was not yet time for the scheduled arrival of his Redeemer. It was no time at all before rebellion happened all over again, but this time more controlled by God so that his will would be carried out according to his timing of events.

The one also twisting Scripture here, is you.....what “cult” do you belong to? Do you have an identification that we can examine, or are you a ‘lone ranger’ with a direct line to God? You seem to be very sure of your own beliefs, but they are not Scriptural without a lot of your own manipulating...(1 Cor 10:12)

 

[Jay Ross]

Jay, the verses in Revelation 6:15-17 indicate that the inhabiters of the earth will not only see Jesus (highlighted in red), but also the throne of God in heaven (highlighted in blue).

Revelation 14:14 indicates that Jesus will have a sickle in His hand. So it will be obvious his intentions will be to carry His wrath on the wicked men of the world who will have been persecuting and martyring the great tribulation saints. In Revelation 6:9-10, the martyred great tribulation saints ask Jesus to avenge their deaths. So, that explains the reason for wrath of the Lamb on the wicked men on the earth.

Revelation 6:
15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;

16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

Douggg, this is what I had said in the post that you quoted, and you have only confirmed what I had said with your rebuttal.

Douggg you see what is written in the translated bibles that you use but that does not mean that you actually understand what you actually see.

You have no idea when Rev 6:15-17 will either take place or has already taken place.

You are only presenting what you want to believe will happen.

 

[Truth7t7]

Ezekiel 38, the same Gog/Magog event is said in the text - latter years, later days. Ezekiel 38:8 and Ezekiel 38:16.

Plus there is no mass grave site called Hamongog in Israel yet. Ezekiel 39:15.

The Jews of Judaism all consider Gog/Magog still unfulfilled, as well.

The war is clearly described as being fought with bows, arrows, and spears, to claim this is a future war is down right laughable

What planet do you live on, modern warfare is rifles, drones, tanks, and missiles, and it is never going back to primitive weapons "Fairy Tales"

Ezekiel 39:9-10KJV
9 And they that dwell in the cities of Israel shall go forth, and shall set on fire and burn the weapons, both the shields and the bucklers, the bows and the arrows, and the handstaves, and the spears, and they shall burn them with fire seven years:
10 So that they shall take no wood out of the field, neither cut down any out of the forests; for they shall burn the weapons with fire: and they shall spoil those that spoiled them, and rob those that robbed them, saith the Lord God.

 

[ewq1938]

Oh Sure, As You Add To Scripture Something Not Seen, Fairy Tales And Imaginations

You Aren't And Can't Be Taken Seriously

Over using capital letters as much as you have belies anything you tried to say. Besides, everyone but you know I am right. You use a scriptural example that disproves your interp.

 

[ewq1938]

The Jews of Judaism all consider Gog/Magog still unfulfilled, as well.

And the coming of the Messiah as unfulfilled. Let's listen to them!

 

[ewq1938]

The war is clearly described as being fought with bows, arrows, and spears, to claim this is a future war is down right laughable

Rev 19 has a sword and horses originating from heaven. Is that laughable too?

 

[ewq1938]

Also, it is unclear when other posters type in their posts the phrase "the tribulation", whether they are meaning the 7 years, or are they meaning the "great tribulation".

Christ spoke of the time period as tribulation or great tribulation. Those are not two dif times but the same exact like saying 2026 or the great 2026. Same thing.

 

[Douggg]

Christ spoke of the time period as tribulation or great tribulation. Those are not two dif times but the same exact like saying 2026 or the great 2026. Same thing.

Jesus said 'tribulation of those days". Not just tribulation.

Believers who hold the pre-trib view consider the entire 70th week as "the tribulation". So when they say the tribulation, they are referring to the entire 7 years of the 70th week.

So don't use tribulation nor trib in your posts - others may think you hold the pre-trib view - and when you use tribulation or trib, they probably are going to think you mean the 7 year 70th week. So, just use "the great tribulation" instead.

 

[Douggg]

And the coming of the Messiah as unfulfilled. Let's listen to them!

Do you think the Gog/Magog event of Ezekiel 38-39 has happened yet ?

 

[ewq1938]

Jesus said 'tribulation of those days". Not just tribulation.

So? This is a meaningless correction.

Believers who hold the pre-trib view consider the entire 70th week as "the tribulation". So when they say the tribulation, they are referring to the entire 7 years of the 70th week.

Everyone already knows this.

So don't use tribulation nor trib in your posts

No. I will use whatever I wish to use.

- others may think you hold the pre-trib view - and when you use tribulation or trib, they probably are going to think you mean the 7 year 70th week. So, just use "the great tribulation" instead.

No.

 

[Douggg]

So? This is a meaningless correction.

Jesus words are not meaningless. Jesus said tribulation of those days.

Jesus's word are spirit and they are life. John 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

No.

One of the forum rules is not to give one word responses, such as, a no or yes.

Here is a copy and paste excerpt of that rule....

"Posting rather excessive or meaningless short replies outside of the Games Forum. Examples would be posts that simply say “Yes.” Or “I agree” or posts that do not contribute to the actual discussion in meaningful form.

...so you need to give an expanded explanation for your "no" response(s).

No. I will use whatever I wish to use.

You should use terms and phrases that fit what is written in bible and have a commonly understood meaning. The 70th week and the great tribulation are appropriate. "tribulation" and the slang term "trib" to mean the great tribulation are both misleading.

 

[Douggg]

You have no idea when Rev 6:15-17 will either take place or has already taken place.

You are only presenting what you want to believe will happen.

Jay, if you disagree with what I wrote about the sixth seal, then give your understanding of what will take place during the sixth seal and when it will take place.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

You conveniently dodged "Nation Shall Rise Against Nation" showing (Global) Why?

I dodge nothing. Jesus answered two different questions. One was in relation to the local event relating to the local event of the destruction of the temple buildings and the other was in relation to the global event of His second coming at the end of the age. Nation rising against nation is in relation to His second coming, but Jesus made it clear that the end (of the age) is not yet when those things happen.

"Nation Against Nation" (Global)

"No, Nor Ever Shall Be"

(World Wide) "There Should No Flesh Be Saved" (Global)

LOL. Let those in Judea flee to the mountains. Not the world. You are twisting Matthew 24:15-21 to make it say what you want it to say.

"NO" = "All" Flesh

Exactly. No flesh in Judea. The context is in relation to Judea. That is a clear fact that you ignore.

Matthew 24:7 & 21KJV
7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.

21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

You, like most futurists and most preterists, do not understand that Jesus talked about two different times periods in the Olivet Discourse. Your lack of understanding of that causes you to claim that a great tribulation in Judea is global. Total nonsense.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

You fail to discern that this was a dual prophesy with two different situations and outcomes that mirrored one another...

You fail to accept that Jesus, in Matthew 24:15-22, was answering the question about when the temple buildings would be destroyed. Your failure to accept that results in you resorting to this dual prophecy nonsense.

Once you start with the dual prophecy nonsense, you can make that claim about any prophecy. Where does it end? Are you going to claim that another Messiah is going to come and die for our sins and rise again? Can we say that the prophecies about the Messiah could have dual fulfillments? You can make scripture say anything you want it to say if you resort to this dual prophecy nonsense.

I don't think you're getting the memo here, Aunty Jane. You are part of the Jehovah's Witnesses cult and you need to come out of that and embrace true Christianity and accept that Jesus is your God and that only His blood pays for your sins - not your death and not anything else. Until you do that, you will continue to be very lacking in spiritual discernment. You need to get away from the Jehovah's Witnesses, surrender your life to the great God and Savior Jesus Christ and start a personal relationship with the Mighty God Jesus Christ.

 

[Douggg]

I don't think you're getting the memo here, Aunty Jane. You are part of the Jehovah's Witnesses cult and you need to come out of that and embrace true Christianity and accept that Jesus is your God and that only His blood pays for your sins - not your death and not anything else.

Although I don't agree with the beliefs of Jehovah's Witnesses, calling them a cult is against the forum rules.

Here is an excerpt from the forum rules...

"Do not attack another member's character in any way. Address the post content, not the member's character, family, denominational affiliation or any other subject that may be perceived as a personal attack by the Christianity Board team and is not germane to the topic or post at hand."

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Stick to the topic @Spiritual Israelite. Do not attack other posters.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Although I don't agree with the beliefs of Jehovah's Witnesses, calling them a cult is against the forum rules.

Here is an excerpt from the forum rules...

"Do not attack another member's character in any way. Address the post content, not the member's character, family, denominational affiliation or any other subject that may be perceived as a personal attack by the Christianity Board team and is not germane to the topic or post at hand."

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Stick to the topic @Spiritual Israelite. Do not attack other posters.

Why do you act like you're a moderator when you're not? You're just on a power trip. It's not a Christian denomination so I'm not attacking any Christian denominational affiliation. It's a cult. I don't need a lecture from someone like you who dishonestly and blatantly twists scripture and invents new definitions for words to make scripture agree with his doctrine.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

You should use terms and phrases that fit what is written in bible and have a commonly understood meaning. The 70th week and the great tribulation are appropriate. "tribulation" and the slang term "trib" to mean the great tribulation are both misleading.

This is rich coming from someone who tries to create his own definition of the word "after" in Daniel 9:26 and the word "generation" in Matthew 24:34.

 

[Jay Ross]

Jay, if you disagree with what I wrote about the sixth seal, then give your understanding of what will take place during the sixth seal and when it will take place.

The sixth seal and the seventh bowl judgement are one and the same event and it unfolded during the 20th century.

 

[Douggg]

This is rich coming from someone who tries to create his own definition of the word "after" in Daniel 9:26 and the word "generation" in Matthew 24:34.

One of the forum rules is not to goad.

Here is an except from that rule....

No Flaming, Goading or Harassment. All members should be treated with the utmost respect and courtesy at all times following the rules of civil discourse.

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@Spiritual Israelite, if you disagree with something I wrote regarding the meaning of "after" and "generation", please go that specific thread and post, and make your response post there. You could also start your own thread regarding the meaning of "generation".

 

[Douggg]

The sixth seal and the seventh bowl judgement are one and the same event and it unfolded during the 20th century.

Jay, here are biblical verses regarding the seventh vial (bowl) of God's wrath...

Revelation 16:

17 And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.

18 And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great.

19 And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath.

20 And every island fled away, and the mountains were not found.

21 And there fell upon men a great hail out of heaven, every stone about the weight of a talent: and men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail; for the plague thereof was exceeding great.

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Jay, what is your proof that any of those things of seventh vial (bowl) of God's wrath took place in the 20th century as you are claiming ?