Where did the Bible come from? - Shot out of a canon

[Aunty Jane]

I am raised in that belief also, I no longer believe that. Scripture is written by men, Scripture is composed by men. 1700 years ago it was decided by men, this is the Holy Bible, the Canon. There wasn't a voice from heaven -> “This is my beloved WORD, with whom I am well pleased.” On the contrary there has been, -- and behold, a voice from heaven said, “This is my beloved Son, with whom I am well pleased.” -- Matt 3:17

There was a reason why God relied on the written word....Jesus and his apostles quoted from the Hebrew Scriptures often...and Jesus’ response to the devil’s temptations were based on those Scriptures. He said “it is written” in each response....he also said of his Father....“your word is truth”. (John 17:17)

We cannot rely on ”Chinese whispers” in the form of oral traditions as they are not a reliable source of truth either. Both are open to alteration......even a comma in the wrong place can change the entire meaning of a verse.

Case in point....Jesus’ words to the thief hung alongside of him.....because Greek used no punctuation, it was added to the English translations to make it read more correctly. So the meaning of this verse hinges on the correct placement of the comma....

Luke 23:42-43...NIV...
“Then he said, “Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom.” Jesus answered him, “Truly I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise.”

The placement of the comma suggests that Jesus was inviting this repentant thief to be with him that day in paradise.....but is that idea supported in the Bible? Was Jesus in paradise that day?....or was he in his tomb for three days after his death? (Matt 12:40) He did not in fact ascend to heaven for 40 days. So he was not promising the man what is suggested by that comma’s placement.

Was the thief promised a place in heaven, or was “paradise” a reference to something else?

Now, if we put the comma after the word “today”....the whole meaning is altered....but it ties in with the reality of what Jesus was promising this man. He made the promise that day and paradise was the earthly destination for all who come back in the resurrection that Jesus promised. (John 5:28-29)
This man was not being promised a place with Christ in heaven, but would be a subject of his Kingdom on earth when he was returned to life.

It is true that men can mess with scripture, but God also has his way of making things clear if we study his word for all the treasure it contains. The Bible explains itself.....but only if we allow it to speak for itself.

That's the only thing that matters, the in-depth story about Jesus, fits seamlessly. What we have (despite its errors) is all we need.

Studying the life course of Jesus Christ is of benefit to everyone, but unless we know the reason why he came....what his Kingdom is.....and what it will accomplish in the bigger picture, gleaned from the rest of the Bible, the story will not be completely clear.

If we don’t have the whole picture, it makes it easy for satan to manipulate our thinking. We won’t be able to find the diamond in a huge pile of broken glass, unless we know what the diamond really looks like.

 

[The Learner]

I see this as a HUGE problem in Christianity. (and whatever you call yourself)

- Belief without question = heaven (or the new earth) ???
- Unbelief = hell (or nonexistence)

There is no room for questions by those who DON'T want to be fixed.

[

oh yeah I need to take the dog to the vet.

 

[ProDeo]

The church lied to us about it.

I think the main reason is ignorance, also note the information is relative new science, if it wasn't for the internet I would not have known. Then of course there is the ability and flexibility of a person to give in what is starring him/her in the face, take the bitter pill or not. And last but not least there is the responsibility of preachers who do understand but hesitate to preach about it on a Sunday morning and leave much of the sheep in bewilderment.

Trust in God, nothing else.

That [!]

 

[ProDeo]

There was a reason why God relied on the written word....Jesus and his apostles quoted from the Hebrew Scriptures often...and Jesus’ response to the devil’s temptations were based on those Scriptures. He said “it is written” in each response....he also said of his Father....“your word is truth”. (John 17:17)

We cannot rely on ”Chinese whispers” in the form of oral traditions as they are not a reliable source of truth either. Both are open to alteration......even a comma in the wrong place can change the entire meaning of a verse.

Case in point....Jesus’ words to the thief hung alongside of him.....because Greek used no punctuation, it was added to the English translations to make it read more correctly. So the meaning of this verse hinges on the correct placement of the comma....

Luke 23:42-43...NIV...
“Then he said, “Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom.” Jesus answered him, “Truly I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise.”

The placement of the comma suggests that Jesus was inviting this repentant thief to be with him that day in paradise.....but is that idea supported in the Bible? Was Jesus in paradise that day?....or was he in his tomb for three days after his death? (Matt 12:40) He did not in fact ascend to heaven for 40 days. So he was not promising the man what is suggested by that comma’s placement.

Jesus body was in the tomb, His Spirit alive of course elsewhere, He named Paradise.

Was the thief promised a place in heaven, or was “paradise” a reference to something else?

Jesus did not give the criminal a puzzle to solve, today you will be with Me in Paradise, crystal clear and spoken just hours before Jesus died.

Now, if we put the comma after the word “today”....the whole meaning is altered....but it ties in with the reality of what Jesus was promising this man. He made the promise that day and paradise was the earthly destination for all who come back in the resurrection that Jesus promised. (John 5:28-29)
This man was not being promised a place with Christ in heaven, but would be a subject of his Kingdom on earth when he was returned to life.

In sync with John 5:28-29 have you also considered Matt 27:50-53 ?

Matt 27:50 And Jesus cried out again with a loud voice and yielded up his spirit.
Matt 27:51 And behold, the curtain of the temple was torn in two, from top to bottom. And the earth shook, and the rocks were split.
Matt 27:52 The tombs also were opened. And many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised,
Matt 27:53 and coming out of the tombs after his resurrection they went into the holy city and appeared to many.

Jesus death meant resurrection.

The price was paid for the sins of the world.

A milestone in the history of the heavens and Earth and how God deals with sin.

It is true that men can mess with scripture, but God also has his way of making things clear if we study his word for all the treasure it contains. The Bible explains itself.....but only if we allow it to speak for itself.

Studying the life course of Jesus Christ is of benefit to everyone, but unless we know the reason why he came....what his Kingdom is.....and what it will accomplish in the bigger picture, gleaned from the rest of the Bible, the story will not be completely clear.

If we don’t have the whole picture, it makes it easy for satan to manipulate our thinking. We won’t be able to find the diamond in a huge pile of broken glass, unless we know what the diamond really looks like.

Agreed.

 

[Aunty Jane]

Jesus body was in the tomb, His Spirit alive of course elsewhere, He named Paradise.

Where does it say that? Remember that Jesus was Jewish, and he taught what Jewish Scripture taught...that a resurrection is a restoration of life....not a continuation of it.

Solomon wrote.....
“For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing at all, nor do they have any more reward, because all memory of them is forgotten. 6  Also, their love and their hate and their jealousy have already perished, and they no longer have any share in what is done under the sun. . . . .Whatever your hand finds to do, do with all your might, for there is no work nor planning nor knowledge nor wisdom in the Grave, [sheol] where you are going.”

Jews did not have a belief in an immortal soul because the “soul” to a Jew was not a living entity without a body. The soul is the whole person, not something that can be disembodied and still live. That notion came from the pagan Greeks, not from the Bible. There is not a single verse in the Bible that contains the words “immortal soul”....and the spirit and the soul are not interchangeable. They mean two entirely different things.

Jesus had to be 100% human, or else he could not have paid the required price of redemption.
If he was an immortal, he could not have died. He had to be the exact equivalent of Adam to buy back what Adam lost for all his children.

Jesus did not give the criminal a puzzle to solve, today you will be with Me in Paradise, crystal clear and spoken just hours before Jesus died.

Jews believed in a resurrection back to an earthly life.....they had no notion of going to heaven.....”Paradise” is describing a garden or park, where God placed Adam and his wife in the beginning....it wasn’t heaven.

Jesus death meant resurrection.

Jesus death meant death.....his resurrection is how his Father rescued him from death.

The price was paid for the sins of the world.

A milestone in the history of the heavens and Earth and how God deals with sin.

The price was set back in Eden.....a sinless life was lost for all of Adam’s children, and only a sinless life could be offered in exchange. Jesus was that sinless life....”the lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world”.

In sync with John 5:28-29 have you also considered Matt 27:50-53 ?

Matt 27:50 And Jesus cried out again with a loud voice and yielded up his spirit.

The “spirit” that Jesus yielded up was his last breath.....the word in Greek is “pneuma” which Strongs defines as.....”the spirit, i.e. the vital principal by which the body is animated”.
The word “pneuma” has to do with air, wind, or is related to the function of the lungs. The words “pneumatic” and “pneumonia” are related to that word. The spirit is not a conscious entity....it is what keeps us alive.
In Genesis, Adam “became a soul” when God started him breathing....he was animated when air filled his lungs and he began life as a soul.

Matt 27:51 And behold, the curtain of the temple was torn in two, from top to bottom. And the earth shook, and the rocks were split.

The curtain in the Temple that was torn in two when Jesus yielded up his last breath, was the partition between the Holy and the Most Holy compartments, symbolically removing the barrier that prevented humans from entry into heaven.....their body of flesh......Jesus was “put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit” (1 Pet 3:18) .....IOW, his fleshly body expired, and he was placed in a tomb for three days. He was not raised to life before those three days were up. That is what a resurrection is.
He was also called “the firstborn from the dead” in Col 1:15, which backs up John 3:13 which says that until that time....”no man has ascended into heaven but the one who descended from heaven, the Son of man.”

Jesus was the first human to die in the flesh, but to be raised to life in the spirit.

Matt 27:52 The tombs also were opened. And many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised,
Matt 27:53 and coming out of the tombs after his resurrection they went into the holy city and appeared to many.

This is a very ambiguous scripture.....the wording of which has been the subject of debate for many years.
You’ll notice that it was “the bodies of the saints” that were coming out of the tombs after Jesus death? This was after a large earthquake that the tombs were opened, so it wasn’t a resurrection taking place because the “saints” are not raised in their fleshly bodies, but were promised a transformation into immortal spirit form, in order to go to heaven. So this is not what it appears to be in the way it has been translated. It was those who saw the bodies of the saints, toppled out of their tombs, who went into Jerusalem to report it.
The resurrection of the “saints” was not to take place until Christ’s return. (1 Thess 4:13-17)

Scripture explains Scripture....

 

[St. SteVen]

New topic:

Analysis of Bill Bright's Four Spiritual Laws

The Four Spiritual Laws: 1) God loves you and has a wonderful plan for your life; 2) Humanity is sinful and separated from God; 3) Jesus Christ is God's provision for our sin; and 4) We must individually receive Jesus as Savior to experience God's love and plan. --- ANALYSIS --- 1) God...

www.christianityboard.com

[

 

[Behold]

New topic:

Analysis of Bill Bright's Four Spiritual Laws

The Four Spiritual Laws: 1) God loves you and has a wonderful plan for your life; 2) Humanity is sinful and separated from God; 3) Jesus Christ is God's provision for our sin; and 4) We must individually receive Jesus as Savior to experience God's love and plan. --- ANALYSIS --- 1) God...

www.christianityboard.com

Final Analysis of demonic "Universalism".

1.) Doctrine of Devils
2.) Designed to keep people from becoming a Christian on earth, so that they die and go to Hell.
3.) False Gospel
4.) Taught by extreme Heretics
5.) Satanic

 

[St. SteVen]

Final Analysis of demonic "Universalism".

1.) Doctrine of Devils
2.) Designed to keep people from becoming a Christian on earth, so that they die and go to Hell.
3.) False Gospel
4.) Taught by extreme Heretics
5.) Satanic

What's "final" about it?
Like last week's rubbish.

[

 

[Behold]

What's "final" about it?
Like last week's rubbish.

What is "final" about it?

This..
-
Universalism is :

1.) Doctrine of Devils
2.) Designed to keep people from becoming a Christian on earth, so that they die and go to Hell.
3.) False Gospel
4.) Taught by extreme Heretics
5.) Satanic

 

[The Learner]

Where does it say that? Remember that Jesus was Jewish, and he taught what Jewish Scripture taught...that a resurrection is a restoration of life....not a continuation of it.

Solomon wrote.....
“For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing at all, nor do they have any more reward, because all memory of them is forgotten. 6  Also, their love and their hate and their jealousy have already perished, and they no longer have any share in what is done under the sun. . . . .Whatever your hand finds to do, do with all your might, for there is no work nor planning nor knowledge nor wisdom in the Grave, [sheol] where you are going.”

Jews did not have a belief in an immortal soul because the “soul” to a Jew was not a living entity without a body. The soul is the whole person, not something that can be disembodied and still live. That notion came from the pagan Greeks, not from the Bible. There is not a single verse in the Bible that contains the words “immortal soul”....and the spirit and the soul are not interchangeable. They mean two entirely different things.

Jesus had to be 100% human, or else he could not have paid the required price of redemption.
If he was an immortal, he could not have died. He had to be the exact equivalent of Adam to buy back what Adam lost for all his children.


Jews believed in a resurrection back to an earthly life.....they had no notion of going to heaven.....”Paradise” is describing a garden or park, where God placed Adam and his wife in the beginning....it wasn’t heaven.

Jesus death meant death.....his resurrection is how his Father rescued him from death.

The price was set back in Eden.....a sinless life was lost for all of Adam’s children, and only a sinless life could be offered in exchange. Jesus was that sinless life....”the lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world”.

The “spirit” that Jesus yielded up was his last breath.....the word in Greek is “pneuma” which Strongs defines as.....”the spirit, i.e. the vital principal by which the body is animated”.
The word “pneuma” has to do with air, wind, or is related to the function of the lungs. The words “pneumatic” and “pneumonia” are related to that word. The spirit is not a conscious entity....it is what keeps us alive.
In Genesis, Adam “became a soul” when God started him breathing....he was animated when air filled his lungs and he began life as a soul.

The curtain in the Temple that was torn in two when Jesus yielded up his last breath, was the partition between the Holy and the Most Holy compartments, symbolically removing the barrier that prevented humans from entry into heaven.....their body of flesh......Jesus was “put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit” (1 Pet 3:18) .....IOW, his fleshly body expired, and he was placed in a tomb for three days. He was not raised to life before those three days were up. That is what a resurrection is.
He was also called “the firstborn from the dead” in Col 1:15, which backs up John 3:13 which says that until that time....”no man has ascended into heaven but the one who descended from heaven, the Son of man.”

Jesus was the first human to die in the flesh, but to be raised to life in the spirit.

This is a very ambiguous scripture.....the wording of which has been the subject of debate for many years.
You’ll notice that it was “the bodies of the saints” that were coming out of the tombs after Jesus death? This was after a large earthquake that the tombs were opened, so it wasn’t a resurrection taking place because the “saints” are not raised in their fleshly bodies, but were promised a transformation into immortal spirit form, in order to go to heaven. So this is not what it appears to be in the way it has been translated. It was those who saw the bodies of the saints, toppled out of their tombs, who went into Jerusalem to report it.
The resurrection of the “saints” was not to take place until Christ’s return. (1 Thess 4:13-17)

Scripture explains Scripture....

Matthew 14:26
And when the disciples saw him walking on the sea, they were troubled, saying, It is a spirit; and they cried out for fear.

 

[Gary Mac]

The purpose of this topical thread is to discuss where the Bible came from.
I keep encountering forum members that seem to have no clue, or at least some misconceptions
about the origins, history, issues and substance of the scriptures.

I invite others to share their knowledge on the subject. The link below is the best thing I have read on the subject.
I plan to post a few quotes from it. Please offer your own. Thanks.

Majority Text vs. Critical Text vs. Textus Receptus – Textual Criticism 101​

Majority Text vs. Critical Text vs. Textus Receptus - Textual Criticism 101 - Berean Patriot

/

The Bible came about by what man wanted to put into canon from their own beliefs, and from precepts to presents has been edited by man over and over.

The Samaritan Penteuch, The whole bible but not sure the date but 1st or 2nd Century translated into the common language from certain parts of Syria.

The Vulgate,the whole bible translated translated into Latin by Jerome at Bethlehem about 400 AD, and for 1000 years was the standard bible in the Catholic Church. and during the dark ages was locked up in Latin and not available for the general population to understand so they could tell the people what they wanted them to know from their own laws for a god.

And then we go to the English versions.

The Wycliffe, a scholar and bible student who translated the whole bible into English starting in about 1380.

William Tyndale was the next to interpret it into English, a Greek scholar, but Persecution made it impossible for him to do his work in England so he crossed over the continent to do his work and issued in 1525. and the Pentateuch in 1530.

Miles Coverdale was a friend of Tyndale, did a bible dedicated to Henery the VIII om 1535. He used the Latin and Tyndales bible to compile his version.

Matthews Bible, 1537, credited ti a man named John Rogers. a friend of Tyndale.

The Great Bible 1539, based upon Matthews, Coverdale, and Tyndal's bibles.

The Geneva Bile 1500,

The Bishops bible 1508

The Douay A Roman Catholic version. 1582.

The King James, made by 47 scholars in 1611 authorized by King James 1 of England The Bishops bible was the bases of the new version But the Hebrew and Greek were also studied for it along with other English bibles.

The revised version 1881 -1884 Made by English and American scholars, and a little different from all there English bible it reaches down into the most ancient copies of original scriptures.

he American Standard version, 1900 1901, incorporates into the text the preferred readings of the American members of the Revision committee of 1881-5

So you see it has been edited over and over and over again and man decided what they want into it as cannon.

And even today Capital letters, didn't appear in the bible until the 14th century when man made his own editing of it from a belief in ignorance foe who God actually is instead of the reality of. This is a distinct sign that the concept didn't become commonplace until around then. The term itself comes from the Latin capit, meaning “head,” because the capital letter came at the “head” of the sentence. If the name son is capitalized it is by the hands of religious minds who didnt have a clue who Jesus was and made assumptions based on ignorance just as most today are doing.

And capital letters can mean a lot as in Son of God, or son of God.

And punctuation was not edited in until about 400 years ago which also can make a huge difference in how a sentence is constructed. Here is just one example of a simple comma.

Note the comma in each of these verses.

Is 59:19. When the enemy shall come in like a flood, the Spirit of the LORD shall lift up a standard against him.

Now when we move that comma to here it changes the whole power of the verse. So see how the power changes from the enemy and how God handles it with power.

When the enemy shall come in, like a flood the Spirit of the LORD shall lift up a standard against him.

 

[quietthinker]

Where did the Bible come from? - Shot out of a canon​

Hmmm, I didn't know that canons had type set.

 

[St. SteVen]

Where did the Bible come from? - Shot out of a canon​

The purpose of this topical thread is to discuss where the Bible came from.
I keep encountering forum members that seem to have no clue, or at least some misconceptions
about the origins, history, issues and substance of the scriptures.

I invite others to share their knowledge on the subject.
The link below is the best thing I have read on the subject.
I plan to post a few quotes from it. (see page one)
Please offer your own. Thanks.

Majority Text vs. Critical Text vs. Textus Receptus – Textual Criticism 101​

Majority Text vs. Critical Text vs. Textus Receptus - Textual Criticism 101 - Berean Patriot

 

[Behold]

The purpose of this topical thread is to discuss where the Bible came from.

The word of God came from God.
About 40 authors were used by God to write it down.

 

[One 2 question]

The word of God came from God.
About 40 authors were used by God to write it down.

Every word of God came from God. Only a small fraction of God's words were written down and even less than these made it into the bibles.

 

[Jack]

Where did the Bible come from? - Shot out of a canon​

The purpose of this topical thread is to discuss where the Bible came from.
I keep encountering forum members that seem to have no clue, or at least some misconceptions
about the origins, history, issues and substance of the scriptures.

IOW, you reject the Bible even tho it's coming to pass right under your nose.

I invite others to share their knowledge on the subject.
The link below is the best thing I have read on the subject.
I plan to post a few quotes from it. (see page one)
Please offer your own. Thanks.

Majority Text vs. Critical Text vs. Textus Receptus – Textual Criticism 101​

Majority Text vs. Critical Text vs. Textus Receptus - Textual Criticism 101 - Berean Patriot

 

[Jack]

Every word of God came from God. Only a small fraction of God's words were written down and even less than these made it into the bibles.

Quoting YOU: "Personally I have left Hawaii (bible) and have gone further afield."

Translation:
1 Timothy 4:1-2
1 Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons, 2 speaking lies in hypocrisy, having their own conscience seared with a hot iron,

 

[One 2 question]

Quoting YOU: "Personally I have left Hawaii (bible) and have gone further afield."

Translation:
1 Timothy 4:1-2
1 Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons, 2 speaking lies in hypocrisy, having their own conscience seared with a hot iron,

Every word of God came from God. Only a small fraction of God's words were written down and even less than these made it into the bibles.

 

[Jack]

Every word of God came from God. Only a small fraction of God's words were written down and even less than these made it into the bibles.

Who is your God? Don't know? You and STV have some things in common.

 

[One 2 question]

Who is your God? Don't know? You and STV have some things in common.

Our Creator is God. Yours, mine, STV and Satan.