When Jesus returns at the last trumpet, death will be swallowed up in victory and there will then be no more death, which will fulfill Isaiah 25:8.

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Spiritual Israelite

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The prophecy of Isaiah 25:8-9 will be fulfilled when Jesus returns at the sound of the last trumpet, soon after which the new heavens and new earth will be ushered in.

Prophecy:

Isaiah 25:8 He will swallow up death in victory; and the Lord God will wipe away tears from off all faces; and the rebuke of his people shall he take away from off all the earth: for the Lord hath spoken it. 9 And it shall be said in that day, Lo, this is our God; we have waited for him, and he will save us: this is the Lord; we have waited for him, we will be glad and rejoice in his salvation.

Fulfillment:


1 Corinthians 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does corruption inherit incorruption. 51 Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed— 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 So when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written: “Death is swallowed up in victory.”

Revelation 21:1 Now I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away. Also there was no more sea. 2 Then I, John, saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 And I heard a loud voice from heaven saying, “Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they shall be His people. God Himself will be with them and be their God. 4 And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes; there shall be no more death, nor sorrow, nor crying. There shall be no more pain, for the former things have passed away.”

Isaiah 25:8 is clear that the time when God will swallow up death in victory is the same time when He will wipe away tears from of all faces. Paul references Isaiah 25:8 in relation to the time when the last trumpet sounds, the dead are raised and we're all changed. With death being swallowed up in victory, it makes sense that there can be no more death after that or else it couldn't be said that death has been swallowed up in victory. That's why John relates Isaiah 25:8-9 directly to the time when the new heavens and new earth are ushered in. Using scripture to interpret scripture, the time when death will be swallowed up in victory with God wiping the tears from of all faces will occur at the last trumpet and will be when the new heavens and new earth are ushered in, at which point "there shall be no more death" (Revelation 21:4).

In other words, with Paul relating the fulfillment of Isaiah 25:8 to the time when the last trumpet sounds and John relating it to the ushering in of the new heavens and new earth, we can then conclude that the new heavens and new earth will be ushered in just after the last trumpet sounds and not 1,000+ years later as Premillennialists typically believe.

According to 1 Thessalonians 4:14-17, the resurrection of the dead in Christ will occur when Jesus returns and, according to 1 Corinthians 15:51-52, the resurrection of the dead in Christ will occur when the last trumpet sounds. So, that's how we know that death will be swallowed up in victory when Christ returns since that will occur at the last trumpet when the dead in Christ are resurrected and we're all changed. And, that means that God will wipe away the tears from off all faces and will then dwell with His people at that point in the new heavens and new earth and that there will be no more death after that. If death continues to occur after events related to the last trumpet are completed (this includes what is written about the seventh trumpet, which is the same as the last trumpet), as Premils believe, then how can it be said that death is swallowed up in victory at that point?

The new heavens and new earth being ushered in at the second coming of Christ also lines up with what Peter taught in 2nd Peter 3.

2 Peter 3:3 ...knowing this first: that scoffers will come in the last days, walking according to their own lusts, 4 and saying, “Where is the promise of His coming? For since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of creation.

First, Peter points out how there are scoffers in the last days saying "Where is the promise of His coming"? These scoffers deny the promise of the second coming of Christ. Later, Peter says this about that promise...

2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.

He points out that the Lord is not slack (slow) in fulfilling the promise of His second coming, as some think.

Then, a little later, he says this about the fulfillment of the promise of His second coming after describing the heavens and earth being dissolved and burned up when Jesus comes as a thief in the night...

2 Peter 3:13 Nevertheless we, according to His promise, look for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells.

Peter does not say that we, according to the fulfillment of the promise of Christ's second coming, look for an earthly millennial kingdom. No, he said, according to His promise of coming again, we "look for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells.". So, just like both 1 Corinthians 15:50-54 and Revelation 21:1-4, in fulfillment of Isaiah 25:8-9, are referenced in relation to Christ's return and the ushering in of the new heavens and new earth, 2 Peter 3:13 also relates the return of Christ directly to the ushering in of the new heavens and new earth rather than the new heavens and new earth being ushered in 1,000+ years after the return of Christ, as most Premils believe.
 

Scott Downey

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Agree, and inserting a 1000 years reign on this first earth still full of rebellion and sin is antithetical to the message of God to the churches

antithetical
ˌan-tə-ˈthe-ti-kəl
adjective
  1. being in direct and unequivocal opposition : directly opposite or opposed
And I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no more sea.

2 And I, John, saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down from God out of Heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

3 And I heard a great voice out of Heaven, saying, “Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and He will dwell with them; and they shall be His people, and God Himself shall be with them and be their God.

4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes, and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain; for the former things are passed away.”

5 And He that sat upon the throne said, “Behold, I make all things new.” And He said unto me, “Write, for these words are true and faithful.”

6 And He said unto me, “It is done! I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the Water of Life freely.

7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.

8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers,and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”
 

Marty fox

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The prophecy of Isaiah 25:8-9 will be fulfilled when Jesus returns at the sound of the last trumpet, soon after which the new heavens and new earth will be ushered in.

Prophecy:

Isaiah 25:8 He will swallow up death in victory; and the Lord God will wipe away tears from off all faces; and the rebuke of his people shall he take away from off all the earth: for the Lord hath spoken it. 9 And it shall be said in that day, Lo, this is our God; we have waited for him, and he will save us: this is the Lord; we have waited for him, we will be glad and rejoice in his salvation.

Fulfillment:


1 Corinthians 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does corruption inherit incorruption. 51 Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed— 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 So when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written: “Death is swallowed up in victory.”

Revelation 21:1 Now I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away. Also there was no more sea. 2 Then I, John, saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 And I heard a loud voice from heaven saying, “Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they shall be His people. God Himself will be with them and be their God. 4 And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes; there shall be no more death, nor sorrow, nor crying. There shall be no more pain, for the former things have passed away.”

Isaiah 25:8 is clear that the time when God will swallow up death in victory is the same time when He will wipe away tears from of all faces. Paul references Isaiah 25:8 in relation to the time when the last trumpet sounds, the dead are raised and we're all changed. With death being swallowed up in victory, it makes sense that there can be no more death after that or else it couldn't be said that death has been swallowed up in victory. That's why John relates Isaiah 25:8-9 directly to the time when the new heavens and new earth are ushered in. Using scripture to interpret scripture, the time when death will be swallowed up in victory with God wiping the tears from of all faces will occur at the last trumpet and will be when the new heavens and new earth are ushered in, at which point "there shall be no more death" (Revelation 21:4).

In other words, with Paul relating the fulfillment of Isaiah 25:8 to the time when the last trumpet sounds and John relating it to the ushering in of the new heavens and new earth, we can then conclude that the new heavens and new earth will be ushered in just after the last trumpet sounds and not 1,000+ years later as Premillennialists typically believe.

According to 1 Thessalonians 4:14-17, the resurrection of the dead in Christ will occur when Jesus returns and, according to 1 Corinthians 15:51-52, the resurrection of the dead in Christ will occur when the last trumpet sounds. So, that's how we know that death will be swallowed up in victory when Christ returns since that will occur at the last trumpet when the dead in Christ are resurrected and we're all changed. And, that means that God will wipe away the tears from off all faces and will then dwell with His people at that point in the new heavens and new earth and that there will be no more death after that. If death continues to occur after events related to the last trumpet are completed (this includes what is written about the seventh trumpet, which is the same as the last trumpet), as Premils believe, then how can it be said that death is swallowed up in victory at that point?

The new heavens and new earth being ushered in at the second coming of Christ also lines up with what Peter taught in 2nd Peter 3.

2 Peter 3:3 ...knowing this first: that scoffers will come in the last days, walking according to their own lusts, 4 and saying, “Where is the promise of His coming? For since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of creation.

First, Peter points out how there are scoffers in the last days saying "Where is the promise of His coming"? These scoffers deny the promise of the second coming of Christ. Later, Peter says this about that promise...

2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.

He points out that the Lord is not slack (slow) in fulfilling the promise of His second coming, as some think.

Then, a little later, he says this about the fulfillment of the promise of His second coming after describing the heavens and earth being dissolved and burned up when Jesus comes as a thief in the night...

2 Peter 3:13 Nevertheless we, according to His promise, look for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells.

Peter does not say that we, according to the fulfillment of the promise of Christ's second coming, look for an earthly millennial kingdom. No, he said, according to His promise of coming again, we "look for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells.". So, just like both 1 Corinthians 15:50-54 and Revelation 21:1-4, in fulfillment of Isaiah 25:8-9, are referenced in relation to Christ's return and the ushering in of the new heavens and new earth, 2 Peter 3:13 also relates the return of Christ directly to the ushering in of the new heavens and new earth rather than the new heavens and new earth being ushered in 1,000+ years after the return of Christ, as most Premils believe.

Yes the 7th trumpet is the end of our world revealing that Revelation isn't all in chronological order

Revelation 7

The Seventh Trumpet​

15 The seventh angel sounded his trumpet, and there were loud voices in heaven, which said:

“The kingdom of the world has become
the kingdom of our Lord and of his Messiah,
and he will reign for ever and ever.”
16 And the twenty-four elders, who were seated on their thrones before God, fell on their faces and worshiped God, 17 saying:

“We give thanks to you, Lord God Almighty,
the One who is and who was,
because you have taken your great power
and have begun to reign.
18 The nations were angry,
and your wrath has come.
The time has come for judging the dead,
and for rewarding your servants the prophets
and your people who revere your name,
both great and small—
and for destroying those who destroy the earth.”
 

Douggg

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The prophecy of Isaiah 25:8-9 will be fulfilled when Jesus returns at the sound of the last trumpet, soon after which the new heavens and new earth will be ushered in.
Jesus will return and the 1000 year millennium rule will begin. Then, after the last rebellion, and the GWT judgmenet, there will be no more death in the new heaven and new earth and new Jerusalem.
path to eternit2y.jpg
 
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Spiritual Israelite

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Yes the 7th trumpet is the end of our world revealing that Revelation isn't all in chronological order

Revelation 7

The Seventh Trumpet​

15 The seventh angel sounded his trumpet, and there were loud voices in heaven, which said:

“The kingdom of the world has become
the kingdom of our Lord and of his Messiah,
and he will reign for ever and ever.”
16 And the twenty-four elders, who were seated on their thrones before God, fell on their faces and worshiped God, 17 saying:

“We give thanks to you, Lord God Almighty,
the One who is and who was,
because you have taken your great power
and have begun to reign.
18 The nations were angry,
and your wrath has come.
The time has come for judging the dead,
and for rewarding your servants the prophets
and your people who revere your name,
both great and small—
and for destroying those who destroy the earth.”
Agree. It clearly says that the seventh trumpet is the time for judging the dead. The judgment of the dead is described in Revelation 20:11-15 and it clearly happens after the thousand years (and Satan's little season).
 

Spiritual Israelite

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Jesus will return and the 1000 year millennium rule will begin. Then, after the last rebellion, and the GWT judgmenet, there will be no more death in the new heaven and new earth and new Jerusalem.
None of this addresses anything that I said in my original post. How do you reconcile what you're saying here with what passages like 1 Corinthians 15:50-54 and Revelation 21:1-4 indicate about the timing of the fulfillment of Isaiah 25:8-9? Those passages indicate that the new heavens and new earth will be ushered in when death is swallowed up in victory at the last trumpet. You have the new heavens and new earth being ushered in 1,000+ years after death has been swallowed up in victory instead.
 
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Douggg

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None of this addresses anything that I said in my original post.
It doesn't ?

In your post, you wrote...."The prophecy of Isaiah 25:8-9 will be fulfilled when Jesus returns at the sound of the last trumpet, soon after which the new heavens and new earth will be ushered in. "

What do you mean by "soon after which" ? A thousand years, later (like I showed on my chart) ? Or a few days ? Or a few months ? please clarify.

Are you amil or premil ? I am premil.


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Douggg

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Agree, and inserting a 1000 years reign on this first earth still full of rebellion and sin is antithetical to the message of God to the churches
Scott, are you ami ?

During the 1000 year millennium, Jesus will rule with a rod of iron.
 
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Douggg

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Amil believers, put these things on the chart in order. You don't have to make a chart, just a list.

1. Antichrist commits the sit in the temple act of 2Thessalonians2:4
2. AoD image set up
3. the great tribulation
4. Jesus's second coming
5. the millennium rule of Jesus with rod of iron
6. the last rebellion, Revelation 20:7-10
7. the destruction of the present earth and its heaven
8. the GWT judgement.
9. new heaven, new earth, new Jerusalem - no more death

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Douggg

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Agree. It clearly says that the seventh trumpet is the time for judging the dead. The judgment of the dead is described in Revelation 20:11-15 and it clearly happens after the thousand years (and Satan's little season).
Seventh trumpet > third woe. Copy and paste all the verses in the bible that have "woe to inhabiters of the earth" in the verse.
 

Scott Downey

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Scott, are you ami ?

During the 1000 year millennium, Jesus will rule with a rod of iron.
Sure, as it follows the scriptures
It is logically necessary.
I changed my mind years ago from premil, was never post mil.
Was also pretrib years ago, now post trib.
There are many good discussions about these things proving amil fits well the scriptures.
I agree that eschatology can be a contentious subject.

That rod of iron rule, well

1 Praise ye the Lord! Sing unto the Lord a new song, and His praise in the congregation of saints!

2 Let Israel rejoice in Him that made him; let the children of Zion be joyful in their King.

3 Let them praise His name in the dance; let them sing praises unto Him with the timbrel and harp.

4 For the Lord taketh pleasure in His people; He will beautify the meek with salvation.

5 Let the saints be joyful in glory; let them sing aloud upon their beds.

6 Let the high praises of God be in their mouth, and a two-edged sword in their hand

7 to execute vengeance upon the heathen, and punishments upon the people;

8 to bind their kings with chains, and their nobles with fetters of iron;

9 to execute upon them the judgment written: this honor have all His saints. Praise ye the Lord!

God's rule is destructive against the unbelieving and the wicked and full of mercy and good fruits towards us who believe.
It is not like God rewards evildoers, He punishes them with an everlasting destruction, after His return.
 

Scott Downey

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Romans 8:27-29

27 And He that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because He maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.

28 And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose.

29 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
But for the others who are disobedient this
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
1 Timothy 1:8-10

8 But we know that the law is good if a man use it lawfully,

9 knowing this: that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for the unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,

10 for whoremongers, for those who defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjurers, and for whatever else is contrary to sound doctrine

11 according to the glorious Gospel of the blessed God, which was committed to my trust.


Titus 1:16
They profess that they know God, but in their works they deny Him, being abominable and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.
 

Scott Downey

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When the Lord comes and all the saints and angels with Him, He executes on them eternal judgment.


14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, “Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousand of His saints

15 to execute judgment upon all, and to convince all who are ungodly among them of all their godless deeds which they have godlessly committed, and of all the harsh speeches which godless sinners have spoken against Him.”

16 These are murmurers and complainers, walking after their own lusts; and their mouth speaketh great swelling words, giving admiration to men’s persons to gain advantage.

17 But, beloved, remember ye the words which were spoken beforehand by the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ,

18 how they told you that there would be mockers in the last times who would walk after their own ungodly lusts.

19 These are they who separate themselves, sensual, having not the Spirit.

20 But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost,

21 keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.
 

Scott Downey

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Again the rule of iron on the Day of Wrath, and they will not escape the judgment of God.
For them who have hardness and impenitence of heart, thou treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the Day of Wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, who will render to every man according to his deeds:



Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art who judgest; for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself, for thou that judgest doest the same things.

2 But we are sure that the judgment of God is according to truth against those who commit such things.

3 And thinkest thou this, O man, who judgest those who do such things and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God?

4 Or despisest thou the riches of His goodness and forbearance and longsuffering, not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?

5 But because of thy hardness and impenitence of heart, thou treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the Day of Wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God,

6 who will render to every man according to his deeds:

7 to those who by patient continuance in welldoing seek for glory and honor and immortality, eternal life;

8 but unto those who are contentious, and do not obey the truth but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,

9 tribulation and anguish upon every soul of man who doeth evil, upon the Jew first and also upon the Gentile;

10 but glory, honor and peace to every man who worketh good, to the Jew first and also to the Gentile.

11 For there is no respect of persons with God.
 

HealthyShape

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When we die, we do not "sleep", but we go to heaven, we are continuously alive. We just leave physical bodies.

If we believe this, then the death has already been swallowed in victory and there is no real death anymore.

Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. The one who believes in me will live, even though they die.
J 11:25
 

Spiritual Israelite

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Seventh trumpet > third woe. Copy and paste all the verses in the bible that have "woe to inhabiters of the earth" in the verse.
Copy and past all the verses in the Bible that talk about judging the dead. It happens just after the sounding of the seventh trumpet and after the thousand years and Satan's little season. But, you have it happening before the thousand years and long before Satan's little season instead.
 

Spiritual Israelite

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It doesn't ?
That's what I said.

In your post, you wrote...."The prophecy of Isaiah 25:8-9 will be fulfilled when Jesus returns at the sound of the last trumpet, soon after which the new heavens and new earth will be ushered in. "

What do you mean by "soon after which" ?
Very soon. Almost immediately. Judging by how quickly our bodies will be changed at the last trumpet (in a moment), I believe things will happen very quickly at that point. Both 1 Corinthians 15:50-54 and Revelation 21:1-4 are shown to be about the fulfillment of Isaiah 25:8-9. When it talks about death being swallowed up in victory and God wiping the tears off all faces it gives the impression that those things happen closely together, not 1,000+ years apart. That's the point I'm making in this thread.

Are you amil or premil ? I am premil.
Are you kidding me here? I have told you MANY times that I'm Amil and you're still asking me this? Do you not remember who you talk to or anything you discuss with people?
 

Spiritual Israelite

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Scott, are you ami ?

During the 1000 year millennium, Jesus will rule with a rod of iron.
What does Jesus ruling with a rod of iron mean to you exactly? Have you ever read this...

Psalm 2:7 I will declare the decree: the Lord hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee. 8 Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession. 9 Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.

According to this passage, ruling with a rod of iron is related to total destruction and not the kind of ruling that you are probably thinking of.
 
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Spiritual Israelite

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When we die, we do not "sleep", but we go to heaven, we are continuously alive. We just leave physical bodies.

If we believe this, then the death has already been swallowed in victory and there is no real death anymore.

Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. The one who believes in me will live, even though they die.
J 11:25
You are mistaken. People are still dying. Read 1 Corinthians 15:50-54. That is saying that death will be swallowed up in victory when the resurrection of the dead and the changing of everyone's body occurs. That has obviously not yet occurred.