The deepest human desire. - The longing to be safe at home.

[Jack]

It seems that you misunderstood me.
We should clear that up.

Since I quote the Bible, I obviously trust it.

Quoting YOU: "no wonder I don't trust the Bible"!

 

[quietthinker]

I think it's fine to explain things in your own words, but the words at Hebrews 5:9 and Ephesians 2:8-10 are much more important than anything we can explain in our own words.

Hebrews 5:9 explains we need to be obedient to Jesus for eternal life, so no matter how we look at it, we still need to be obedient for eternal life. And Ephesians 2:8-10 explains you are saved by faith in God, this is God's gift to you, not anything you have done on your own, It isn't something you have earned, God planned for us to do good things and to live as he has always wanted us to live.

Either way we explain it, Hebrews 5:9 explicitly states we need to be obedient to Jesus for Everlasting life.
Shouldn't the scriptures be a much better explanation, then what we can explain ourselves?

When there is talk of obedience what is it we actually mean? Is it the keeping of the law? What is the measure against which obedience is measured.....and how obedient are we to be?

 

[walter]

When there is talk of obedience what is it we actually mean? Is it the keeping of the law? What is the measure against which obedience is measured.....and how obedient are we to be?

Hebrews 5:9 talks about obedience to Jesus and everlasting life, it does not mention keeping of the law.

I don't add or take away any words in Hebrews 5:9, why read Hebrews 5:9 in the first place, if I am going to assign a different meaning to its words?

I guess if we are going to obey Jesus, we would have to read all his words in the gospels wouldn't we?

 

[Aunty Jane]

That you are by your own confession not born again and hence do not have the Spirit of Christ abiding in you, means that all your teachings are from human reasoning and are limited only to understanding from a human intellect, and bereft of spiritual truth.

The majority who identify as Christians are not “born again” because they will receive an earthly resurrection (John 5:28-29)....whereas those “called” to heaven (Heb 3:2) where Christ has “prepared a place” for them in his Father’s house, will rule redeemed mankind on earth.

Only the elect need to be “born again”, and for most of them, this takes place at their resurrection, which is a new birth in a completely different body. All those who will be “kings and priests” with Christ in his Kingdom are chosen/elected by God...it doesn’t automatically apply just because someone claims to be a believer.

“Kings and priests” needs subjects....as it was in Israel, the kings ruled the people, and the priests led them in worship.....who do you imagine the elect to be?

I don’t think you have any idea what it means to be “born again”...it is something that many claim, but no one can prove....

We will all know soon enough.....because Jesus will determine if we are taught by him.... or by our chosen denomination. We are all taught by someone, Brakelite....who taught you?

 

[Jack]

The majority who identify as Christians are not “born again”

Can you believe a JW would say that? lol

because they will receive an earthly resurrection (John 5:28-29)....whereas those “called” to heaven (Heb 3:2) where Christ has “prepared a place” for them in his Father’s house, will rule redeemed mankind on earth.

God has prepared a place for JW's, a VERY hot place and it ain't Florida.

 

[Brakelite]

I don’t think you have any idea what it means to be “born again”...it is something that many claim, but no one can prove....

I experienced the new birth. It wasn't something that was taught. My life, the new mindset and worldview that came with the filling of the holy Spirit and receiving the mind of Christ, is all the proof i need.
Along with that came relationship. A personal relationship with God closer than that ever experienced even by Adam and Eve.
As Jesus said, the kingdom of God doesn't come with observation, (or theological studies and aPhD) but through revelation...the kingdom is within us. And the principles upon which the kingdom is founded is experienced and lived out in the life of those whose minds and hearts are thus converted.

 

[walter]

I experienced the new birth. It wasn't something that was taught. My life, the new mindset and worldview that came with the filling of the holy Spirit and receiving the mind of Christ, is all the proof i need.

I am happy to hear you have had some positive experiences in your life, a new mindset and world view, Auntie Jane and Myself may explain a few words personally in our own words, but when it comes to our fundamental beliefs, we try our best to support our beliefs allowing the scriptures to speak for themselves. Without any commentary alongside of scripture.

If there is a belief you would like to discuss, I will try my best to get some scriptures together and let the scriptures do 99% of all the explaining. Of course I'm sure I make mistakes everyday, but I will try my very best to let the scriptures do all the explaining needed.

 

[quietthinker]

I experienced the new birth. It wasn't something that was taught. My life, the new mindset and worldview that came with the filling of the holy Spirit and receiving the mind of Christ, is all the proof i need.
Along with that came relationship. A personal relationship with God closer than that ever experienced even by Adam and Eve.
As Jesus said, the kingdom of God doesn't come with observation, (or theological studies and aPhD) but through revelation...the kingdom is within us. And the principles upon which the kingdom is founded is experienced and lived out in the life of those whose minds and hearts are thus converted.

I confirm a similar experience. A switch which occurred pretty much instantly (that's another story) with a continuing experience as I grew in a new understanding.
I didn't ask for it, I didn't control it, however my spirit was willing and things changed in my life overnight to the surprise of some and consternation of others.

 

[St. SteVen]

I confirm a similar experience. A switch which occurred pretty much instantly (that's another story) with a continuing experience as I grew in a new understanding.
I didn't ask for it, I didn't control it, however my spirit was willing and things changed in my life overnight to the surprise of some and consternation of others.

Same here.
A workmate commented to me that I had changed dramatically.

 

[Brakelite]

I am happy to hear you have had some positive experiences in your life, a new mindset and world view, Auntie Jane and Myself may explain a few words personally in our own words, but when it comes to our fundamental beliefs, we try our best to support our beliefs allowing the scriptures to speak for themselves. Without any commentary alongside of scripture.

If there is a belief you would like to discuss, I will try my best to get some scriptures together and let the scriptures do 99% of all the explaining. Of course I'm sure I make mistakes everyday, but I will try my very best to let the scriptures do all the explaining needed.

It's ironic that Jane asked who taught me, then presented an exclusive position taught by Watchtower. No personal testimony by which to ascertain ether the taught doctrine can be displayed, experienced, or presented.
I was taught by Jesus. My introduction to Christianity wasn't through the church, through a teacher, or even through the bible. As i said, it began with a relationship with Jesus Himself. That's what real Christianity is about. Not theological or biblical knowledge. The brightest intellects cannot understand spiritual matters.

 

[quietthinker]

Same here.
A workmate commented to me that I had changed dramatically.

Did you get into conversation with him about it?

 

[walter]

That's what real Christianity is about. Not theological or biblical knowledge

What is important to a Christian, something Jesus and the Apostles took the time to explain or something they never Explained?

 

[Brakelite]

What is important to a Christian, something Jesus and the Apostles took the time to explain or something they never Explained?

What did they never explain?

 

[St. SteVen]

Did you get into conversation with him about it?

I only remember being surprised.
It seemed that I was less aware of the changes than observers.
And this happened over 45 years ago, so my memory of it is not sharp.

 

[Aunty Jane]

I experienced the new birth. It wasn't something that was taught. My life, the new mindset and worldview that came with the filling of the holy Spirit and receiving the mind of Christ, is all the proof i need.
Along with that came relationship. A personal relationship with God closer than that ever experienced even by Adam and Eve.
As Jesus said, the kingdom of God doesn't come with observation, (or theological studies and aPhD) but through revelation...the kingdom is within us. And the principles upon which the kingdom is founded is experienced and lived out in the life of those whose minds and hearts are thus converted.

My logic tells me that an emotional response to something that happens to certain people, could only come from God if all who received a “born again” experience had the same experience, and then all held the same beliefs. God’s spirit should do that....so why isn’t that the case?

No one can prove that they are “born again” and many who claim to be “born again”, do not agree doctrinally. Jesus knows who are spirit anointed and who only imagine that they are.

The excuses offered to Jesus at the time of his judgment show that “many” who claim him as their “Lord” will have evidences in the form of miracles and such to prove that they are Christ’s disciples....Jesus rejects them saying that he “never knew” them....so how does one prove that they have received the Holy Spirit. (Matt 7:21-23)

What is the purpose of being”born again”?
And what was the purpose of the preaching work that Jesus assigned to all of his disciples, if God’s Spirit was just going to sneak up on people unannounced and basically uninvited?

Would God’s spirit give different people different experiences and then have them hold different beliefs? That makes no sense as there are not many truths....there can only be one.

Help me make some sense of this as my study of the Bible tells me that being “born again” is something that happens post resurrection....and there is a specific purpose to it that doesn’t not apply to all Christians.

 

[St. SteVen]

My logic tells me that an emotional response to something that happens to certain people, could only come from God if all who received a “born again” experience had the same experience, and then all held the same beliefs. God’s spirit should do that....so why isn’t that the case?

No one can prove that they are “born again” and many who claim to be “born again”, do not agree doctrinally. Jesus knows who are spirit anointed and who only imagine that they are.

Yes, how would you "prove" that you were born again?
The evidence is pretty clear. There is a noticeable change in the individual.
The proof is in the pudding.

What is the purpose of being”born again”?

It is a verification of repentance.
They have turned away from sin and turned toward Christ.

Help me make some sense of this as my study of the Bible tells me that being “born again” is something that happens post resurrection....and there is a specific purpose to it that doesn’t not apply to all Christians.

No, no...
A renewed relationship with God is to be born again.

 

[quietthinker]

My logic tells me that an emotional response to something that happens to certain people, could only come from God if all who received a “born again” experience had the same experience, and then all held the same beliefs. God’s spirit should do that....so why isn’t that the case?

No one can prove that they are “born again” and many who claim to be “born again”, do not agree doctrinally. Jesus knows who are spirit anointed and who only imagine that they are.

The excuses offered to Jesus at the time of his judgment show that “many” who claim him as their “Lord” will have evidences in the form of miracles and such to prove that they are Christ’s disciples....Jesus rejects them saying that he “never knew” them....so how does one prove that they have received the Holy Spirit. (Matt 7:21-23)

What is the purpose of being”born again”?
And what was the purpose of the preaching work that Jesus assigned to all of his disciples, if God’s Spirit was just going to sneak up on people unannounced and basically uninvited?

Would God’s spirit give different people different experiences and then have them hold different beliefs? That makes no sense as there are not many truths....there can only be one.

Help me make some sense of this as my study of the Bible tells me that being “born again” is something that happens post resurrection....and there is a specific purpose to it that doesn’t not apply to all Christians.

Jesus discourse with Nicodemus is worth a reread.
There are no prerequisites including theological understandings or none at all, there are no formulas.
Jesus is presented to the person, God's Spirit impacts the heart and choices are made.

People may have similar experiences or different. Some overt, some covert. Either way, a person is conscious of change. It is not culturally or educationally connected as it transcends any and all boundaries men establish.
It is accompanied by a profound sense of security and peace which inevitably is/ will be tested.

Its purpose is to align the spirit of men/ women with God's Spirit and purposes. Fundamentally it turns the 'Queen Mary' going one direction and turns it to another.

Consider the account in Acts 10 of Peter sharing the story of Jesus in a Gentiles house. That whole family was turned around.....to the total surprise of the Jewish cohort.

 

[Jack]

Same here.
A workmate commented to me that I had changed dramatically.

So when was it that you decided that you don't trust the Bible? That you're not convinced that God wanted us to have the Bible???

 

[Jack]

The story of the prodigal, the parable of the lost son,
is a beautiful picture of this longing to be safe at home.
What I would call the deepest human desire.

Can you imagine a stronger human desire?

This is why I don't buy the idea that any human would not want to be home in heaven.
That anyone would be unhappy to arrive in the place prepared for them. Home.

Luke 15:17-20 NIV
“When he came to his senses, he said,
‘How many of my father’s hired servants have food to spare,
and here I am starving to death!
18 I will set out and go back to my father and say to him:
Father, I have sinned against heaven and against you.
19 I am no longer worthy to be called your son; make me like one of your hired servants.’
20 So he got up and went to his father. “But while he was still a long way off,
his father saw him and was filled with compassion for him;
he ran to his son, threw his arms around him and kissed him.

But you said you don't trust the Bible.

 

[Brakelite]

My logic tells me that an emotional response to something that happens to certain people, could only come from God if all who received a “born again” experience had the same experience, and then all held the same beliefs. God’s spirit should do that....so why isn’t that the case?

No one can prove that they are “born again” and many who claim to be “born again”, do not agree doctrinally. Jesus knows who are spirit anointed and who only imagine that they are.

The excuses offered to Jesus at the time of his judgment show that “many” who claim him as their “Lord” will have evidences in the form of miracles and such to prove that they are Christ’s disciples....Jesus rejects them saying that he “never knew” them....so how does one prove that they have received the Holy Spirit. (Matt 7:21-23)

What is the purpose of being”born again”?
And what was the purpose of the preaching work that Jesus assigned to all of his disciples, if God’s Spirit was just going to sneak up on people unannounced and basically uninvited?

Would God’s spirit give different people different experiences and then have them hold different beliefs? That makes no sense as there are not many truths....there can only be one.

Help me make some sense of this as my study of the Bible tells me that being “born again” is something that happens post resurrection....and there is a specific purpose to it that doesn’t not apply to all Christians.

Your attempts to play down what Jesus said was absolutely essential for one to understand and enter into the kingdom of God is because you don't have the faith that God could do that for you if you asked, yet He promised the holy Spirit to all who would ask. Does a father refuse good gifts to his children? Does he give a scorpion if you ask for a fish? This has nothing to do with emotion. It's about God wanting a relationship with you and longing to reveal the truth and reality of the gospel. This has nothing to do with the church you belong to, the translation of the bible you trust in, or the number of bible studies you've done. This is about your eternal destiny and what the Creator of the universe has done for you and what you can partake of today.

“1 Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ: 2 Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord, 3 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue: 4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust. ”
2 Peter 1:1-4 KJV

Unfeigned Bible

Unfeigned Bible

www.unfeignedbible.app

When approached by Nicodemus and was questioned, the Saviour did not meet argument with argument. Raising His hand with solemn, quiet dignity, He pressed the truth home with greater assurance, “Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.” Nicodemus knew that Christ here referred to water baptism and the renewing of the heart by the Spirit of God. He was convinced that he was in the presence of the One whom John the Baptist had foretold.

Jesus continued: “That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.” By nature the heart is evil, and “who can bring a clean thing out of an unclean? not one.” Job 14:4. No human invention can find a remedy for the sinning soul. “The carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.” “Out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies.” Romans 8:7; Matthew 15:19. The fountain of the heart must be purified before the streams can become pure. He who is trying to reach heaven by his own works in keeping the law is attempting an impossibility. There is no safety for one who has merely a legal religion, a form of godliness. The Christian’s life is not a modification or improvement of the old, but a transformation of nature. Many criticize Christians for trusting in a religious crutch. But a crutch of entirely insufficient for what is required. There must be a death to self and sin, and a new life altogether. This change can be brought about only by the effectual working of the Holy Spirit.